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FORUM / RUGBY /  The "experts" on Vermeulen

The "experts" on Vermeulen

Started by Mozart33 REPLIES564 VIEWS· 07 May 2015, 02:25
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 02:25
#1
07 May 2015, 02:25#1

Given Vermeulen was many pundits' choice for IRB Player of the Year, one would imagine guys who select teams all the time like Dave and Moronic would spot his potential in 2013. But sadly no.....here is Moronic in a heated argument with me telling me Vermeulen should be replaced by...haha....Liggies.


"The assumption about Coetzee is to an extent correct - if you interpret it purely based on tackle stats - such as the case was largely with Coetzee and Watson. But Labuschagne's stats are way ahead of Vermeulen in respect of all aspects of the game of loosies. That includes, turnover of possession, ball carrying in traffic and wider out, line out play and defence - so there is no real comparison and you are dreaming one up - with respect."


Moronic even lumps Vermeulen in with Alberts, the ultimate insult in his wacky world:


"Alberts and Vermeulen - the two slowest international players at loosie in the SH - how are they going to help in the game against the speedier Wallaby and All Blacks loosies? Louw is less of a culprit - but he is put on the bench."




And here is Sapp's team on the same thread. Sadly Duane doesn't even make his bench.

"15. Willie 14. de Allende 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Habana 10. Lambie 9. v/Zyl 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. de Jager 5. Etzebeth 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt 8. CJ Stander

 

16. Strauss 17. Nkanyne 18. Jannie 19. Jacques du Plessis 20. Kolisi 21. Reinach 22. Jean 23. Mvovo"



We do so like to have experts to shine a light in the darkness....sadly Sapp and Moronic don't even have a candle. Following on their  complete miss on Pollard this is pretty dispositive.


CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 04:08
#2
07 May 2015, 04:08#2
 Balls
I have never said that Vermeulen should be replaced by Labushagne - Bullshitter.  I said that of Alberts - you useless old fool.   Labuschagne is not a 7 and that went straight over your head.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 05:31
#3
07 May 2015, 05:31#3
I am quoting your exact words Detritus......you compared them, it's right there in black and white. Missed our best player last year , some selector. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 08:02
#4
07 May 2015, 08:02#4
 I compared Alberts and Labuschagne - you ignorant dofdoos.  Hell but you misrepresent things totally and I call you a liar - you squeell like a pig.  
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 May 2015, 11:03
#5
07 May 2015, 11:03#5

Give me a break, Vermeulen has made my side for some time now......that side above of mine has not context as to when and one certainty is Vermeulen would have been injured at the time......same applies to the selection of v/Zyl at 9.


When did I select that side?


Don't speak on my behalf when Vermeulen has always made my side......have a go at Mike but don't speak shit about me  

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 11:30
#6
07 May 2015, 11:30#6
 Dave
He lied about me as well - but it does not bother me, I know what to expect from him.  
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
07 May 2015, 11:37
#7
07 May 2015, 11:37#7
To be fair, Dave did rate Duane before he really hit his straps, but a lot of people missed that by a mile. In 2011 and 2012 all the rage was the Lion's 'Jebadiah' Strauss - he of the beard fame. Unfortunately Dave was on the bandwagon with that one. I recount being told a fool endlessly by everyone and that, whether I liked it or not, Strauss was the best #8 on the planet and will be bok captain. As it happened he faded into the Abusso.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 May 2015, 12:55
#8
07 May 2015, 12:55#8

Strauss was bloody good, he is kicking arse in Scotland now and has been picked out as one to watch when he qualifies to play for Scotland shortly.


Great leader and player  

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
07 May 2015, 12:58
#9
07 May 2015, 12:58#9
 Scotland... *tumble weed drifts idly by* ... wow
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 13:06
#10
07 May 2015, 13:06#10
Letsal 
I do not rate the AB loosie at speedsters - but they have reasonable pace required from top class loosies.  Same with the Australian ones and most of the NH teams as well.
I think that we need at least two loosies with comparable pace to their competitors and have no problem with one of our loosies being on the slow side.  Vermeulen is definitely not the fastest no 8 in international rugby - but he is one of the best as a result of his overall competence.
That is where the problem comes in.  Alberts is probably from a pace perspective the slowest 7 in top rugby playing countries.   One slowish loosie is acceptable - two slowish loosies a disaster.   I have constantly supported Vermeulen as our no 8 even before Spiesies got injured and Vermeulen selected.  vermeulen is to my mind irreplaceable in the Springbok team.   The moment that is decided on - the question of Alberts is under the spotlight.  One of the two must go and I have always said the one to go is Alberts.   Because of his serious limitations as a loosie - Alberts sho uld not be anywhere near the team in any event.       
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
07 May 2015, 13:10
#11
07 May 2015, 13:10#11
 McCaw and Read are no faster than our heavies. Positional play is the key for a loose forward. Irrespective of pace.

Alberts only weakness is he needs to be motivated. If he is up for a test he has no problems. Without Alberts the Boks virtually have no chance of winning the World Cup.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 13:20
#12
07 May 2015, 13:20#12
 With Alberts and Matfield the Boks will most likely not reach the quarters.   How is it that you miss all the deficiencies in Alberts' performances.  He is totally and utterly useless and a waste of a position in the Springbok team.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 13:40
#13
07 May 2015, 13:40#13

You have to love it....I reproduce what Dave and Mike posted in 2013....cut and paste.....and they deny it.

 

"Black is white when I say so....wrong is right when I say so".

 

 

Of course the only thing that proves is they are hi ghly embarrassed by what they wrote....and so they should be.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
07 May 2015, 13:43
#14
07 May 2015, 13:43#14
Your problem is that you use numbers without context and you pay too much credence to fantasy rugby.

You couldn't be more right Moz. I still laugh at Michael's "Videos are a wild fabrication of the truth. Stick to stats for there you cannot be faulted" remark. Then his refusal to accept Frans' 2013 stats! But then We are the idiots *rolls eyes*
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 14:29
#15
07 May 2015, 14:29#15
 Look Mozart
You know you have distorted what I always wrote about the loosies and I was constant in saying we can have one slowish loosie and not two.  I have constantly been critical of Alberts - now suddenly according to your lies it is Vermeulen I wanted have replaced.  Look - if you can find anywhere where I said outright that Labuschagne should replace Vermeulen - find it, but do not come back with a distortion.   You should be ashamed of yourself on this site - constant disinformation does not befit a gentleman - but then you have proved repeatedly that you are not one.
     
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 14:38
#16
07 May 2015, 14:38#16
 Look Letsal
I was the one who put Steyn's 2013 stats on this site and said he was poor - I accepted the stats for 2013 - while I actual posted them originally and evlauated them properly.
The exact opposite about acceptance of stats is true.  You and Mozart refuse to accept the stats of Fransie for 2014 and 2015 and when posted ducked and dived like the skunks you are and then said the stats are lies.  The second excuse have been that they do not reflect the actual content on what happened on the field of play.  That is a classical way of saying that things that actually happened during the game did not happen.  
You missed out on what I wrote about videos.  I never denied the content of videos - what i did have a serious problem is the warped interpretations you gave of what actually happened in respect of the videos.   If the interpretations are in line with what actually happened - no problem, but in your case it ranges from weird assumptions to outright disinformation.  
   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 15:03
#17
07 May 2015, 15:03#17
I quoted you exactly Moronic......your words. You were the bloody fool who called the World's best 8th man  the co equal slowest international loosie in the SH. Your  words not mine. 

Just another major blunder.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 15:39
#18
07 May 2015, 15:39#18
 F#ck - but this constant disinformation is an abortion - you remain a bloody liar.  I may have said that the stats of Labuschagne is better than Vermeulen - but I constantly said Labuschagne should replace Alberts - the bloody fat prop pretending he is a loosie. 
You are a bloody liar making selected quotes from posts without putting the full posting that was written on this site in an item written years ago - giving a totally distorted version of what the real recommendation was.  That is why you are such a low skunk.  You find the posting - so quote the whole posting and not only a single paragraph  on this site - you bloody coward .    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 15:54
#19
07 May 2015, 15:54#19
Hahahaha....the sting works. I thought they old fool would say that. I mean what else was the provincial lackey going to say? So here the full post is in all it's glory, including the selection of Schreuder at scrumhalf. Can it get any worse?
clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 16622RE: Being Meyer thread.....select the Bok team for Oz
August 26, 2013, 15:48:13Mozart

I do not doubt that you have tried your utmost - but there are some points I do differ from you. We will not get Du Preez and Brussow - so that is a pipe dream. And Bakkies Botha has been playing club games - equivalent to CC games in SA - for the past two years. At virtually 34 years of age - can he still play on test level? Judging on what Steenkamp - playing on the same competition level - produced for the Springboks - he is not really acceptable and we may be betting on a horse that is not going to get to the finishing line.

Alberts and Vermeulen - the two slowest international players at loosie in the SH - how are they going to help in the game against the speedier Wallaby and All Blacks loosies? Louw is less of a culprit - but he is put on the bench.

I would say the team should be the following :-

Le Roux, Engelbrecht, Serfontein, De Villiers, Habana, Lambie, Schreuder

Beast, Strauss, Jannie (while Malherbe is not yet available), De Jager (while Du Toit is only becoming available this coming week), Coetzee, Labuschagne, Louw

Coenie, Bismarck, Adriaanse, Du Toit/De Jager, Vermeulen, Van Zyl, Visser


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SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
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Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
07 May 2015, 16:18
#20
07 May 2015, 16:18#20

Moz what part of Lestats post did you miss and if I did not select Vermeulen at the time in 2013 it would have been because he was injured......just like my selection of v/Zyl at 9........you just fail to grasp the facts


Vermeulen has made my starting team for the past 2 years - FACT  

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
07 May 2015, 16:54
#21
07 May 2015, 16:54#21
 Even then if that was the case and Vermeulen likely injured as said by Dave - then what purpose does it serve now - since I have been supporting Vermeulen ever since he was selected at 8.
Mozart's main problem is he is a stupid bugger living in the past.  According to him people are not allowed to change their minds on issues - he never changes his and is stucki with the players of 2007 and with a few survivors from that team.  Anybody who made their name later is not acceptable and he would constantly find fault with them.
This constant references of what people wrote two or more years ago is a source of great mirth to everyone - me included.  But it shows one thing - I am still adjusting my ideas in accordance with the changes we have to contend with - the M ozart idiot is stuck in a time warp of a decade ago and he finds it impossible to accept change.  That is the first step towards ancien dementia - so he better be careful.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
07 May 2015, 21:37
#22
07 May 2015, 21:37#22
  Your main problem is you hate being reminded of the rubbish you wrote. But tell me, why are you now so supportive of Vemeulen , when as demonstrated here you thought he was a slow cart horse?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 May 2015, 10:38
#23
08 May 2015, 10:38#23
 Mozart
Your problem is you live in the past and spout absolute BS at present in virtually every contribution you make. 
I suspect you "doctored" that quotation.   I cannot remember every recommending Coetzee to play at 7 and I have been constant in supporting Labuschagne to play in that position.  Even when Spies was the no 8, I always supported Vermeulen to play at 8.  Why should I suddenly want Labuschagne at 8 where he never played before?     You are a big enough fraud to sink to that low a level.  
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 May 2015, 11:18
#24
08 May 2015, 11:18#24
You're right, he is spouting BS, but it came from your mouth! 
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
08 May 2015, 11:58
#25
08 May 2015, 11:58#25
 @Ou Maaikie. FFS mate. How low do you want to go. Accusing Moz of "doctoring" your posts. Here is the link to the thread http://www.ruckersforum.com/forum.cfm?threadid=6004 . Check the second post from the top.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 May 2015, 14:11
#26
08 May 2015, 14:11#26

Dear oh dear....doctoring the thread. It was that bad!

 

 

No Moronic you said those things. In fact by the way you were setting up Vermeulen he was about to join your Alberts, Matfield, Steyn whipping boy group.

 

 

Then hilariously he becomes the best number 8 in the world and you are left spluttering with egg all over your sagging face.....telling everybody you've been misquoted by your own posting.

 

Funny stuff.

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 May 2015, 14:42
#27
08 May 2015, 14:42#27
 He had Thor on the bench, so his argument could have been that both Vermeulen and Alberts in the back 3 can be a problem due to their lack of speed. Vermeulen is not fast enough for your classic 8, but it turned out not to be too much of a problem. You are missing the no.4 lock, but I suppose Eben would be your pick there. 
All in all not a bad team, but puleezzz Mike, how you ever had Schreuder as your starting 9 is beyond me???? I see you had Visser on the bench as well and JJ as your 14(I can live with that if he proves to be as good @ 14 as I think he can)
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 May 2015, 14:46
#28
08 May 2015, 14:46#28
 F#cking liar - I never ever criticized Vermeulen and that fraud by you are exactly what i found in another threat supposedly by me - which was false and when I threatened to take up the issue with the Site Management - the writer ran away - like the coward he is.  Two possible frauds was potentially involved - you and/or ceradunce.
You must be sick in the mind and that is becoming clearer in every post you made.  By the way the moment I saw Coetzee at 7 and Labuschagne at 8 - I realized that you committed fraud in this case.  
Dismal louse.
 
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 May 2015, 17:14
#29
08 May 2015, 17:14#29
 Relax Mike, don't let these things get to you. Vermeulen is slow, as is Alberts. It would be stupid to start both on a running field. 
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
08 May 2015, 17:17
#30
08 May 2015, 17:17#30
 And still ou Flying F art is shouting fraud. Have you even looked at your own post on the thread where it was quoted from?
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 May 2015, 17:40
#31
08 May 2015, 17:40#31
 Vlag, I don't really blame him, neither you and Moz. Both "sides" tend to be a bit pedantic and twist things a bit to suit the agenda. Most of the banter is a lot of laughs for the spectators BUT the nasty edge in some of the banter is getting ugly from time to time. (From my perspective)That being said, it would turn stale around quickly if you lot agree on a ceasefire. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2015, 00:34
#32
09 May 2015, 00:34#32
 I want to remind Board members that I have previously discovered a totally false message supposedly written by me - and then threatened to take up the matter with the site management.   I have every reason to suspect that Mozart or Ceradunce were responsible for the fraudulent message.   They are likely to have done it again and probably did, since what is in that quoted message  is opposed to everything I have written over the past three years about the loosie positions.
I have consistently supported Labuschagne for being selected to play at 7, I have never suggested Coetzee should play at 7 and I have never questioned Vermeulen's selection at 8.   If you go through all my posts you would find that being my consistent approach - so why should I suddenly change and write totally different things?   
By the way - I have always said the Vermeulen is not a pacy loosie - but he has other qualities - which make him the best player at 8 in SA if not the world.   That has been consistent and never varied.  Go through all my posts and that is a constant.   What I said consistently as well is that Alberts is the one to be replaced and since Labuschagne is a 7 - why should I propose moving Coetzee to 7 and playing Labuschagne at 8?   It just make no sense.
Bearing in mind the previous fraudulent message posted in my name - which would sometime in future have popped up in the quotations of Mozart and Ceradunce - I have no confidence in them ever being honest at all.    They are an embarrassment on this site and they are liars of the first order in any event.                  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 May 2015, 02:05
#33
09 May 2015, 02:05#33
No sir, the embarrassment on this site is your good self....pathetically whining about fraud when you wrote every word of that post.

Let me first of all take Vlag out of the mix. Vlag  and I never communicate off this site. And I found that post exactly as its displayed on here. There was no reason he would have changed it before I found it.  He couldn't have known I would pick that posting among thousands of postings.

The only other potential culprit is myself...and I have no idea how to change another poster's material. 
So Detritus bad as it seems....and it's pretty frigging stupid..you wrote every word.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 May 2015, 07:32
#34
09 May 2015, 07:32#34
 About as trustworthy as two skunks and a bloody liar to boot. I did not write that garbage that you quoted insofar as Coetzee and Labuschagne is concerned and that is a fact.   I do no go into other people messages and change it either and then quote it on this site as authentic.  
Just one question fraudulent bastard, how come this message popped up when we were discussing Alberts in other threads - not a word about Vermeulen being ever suggested to be dropped - and as a matter of fact going quiet about  Alberts?
I think that this is as low as you can go and in line with the other fraudulent message I discovered and threatened to have it investigated by the Site Manager.  I am still waiting for you to quote that one sometime in future - since you apparently are low  as snake sh!t.            
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