The "Fetcher-less" SA Teams: Bullied at Rucks

The European teams are beating the SA teams on the ground, which is preventing the SA teams from starting their attacks. The European ball retention through phases gives them more options to attack and dominate territory. The SA teams are not going through multiple phases- especially on softer pitches. 

We sometimes see this with the Boks,- when they field too many ball carriers and not enough players who compete at the ruck to speed up ball retention and slow down opposition ball. When the Boks do well at the ruck, they usually always win. 

Players like Marx, Duane Vermeulen, Deon Fourie or even Kwagga as an impact player are very effective at competing at the ruck. So the Boks can usually find 1-2 players who are strong in this area of the game, but our regional sides lack depth.

Our regional teams need to look at having a specialist fetcher at number 6, as well as looking at players who are all-rounders in the back row. Northern Hemisphere teams always have an open side that is good at closing down space. Players like the Creatine Twins who are only ball carriers are not all-round enough to consistent in all conditions and gameplans.

At least 2 of the players in the backrow need to be good at the ruck (6 and 8), and ideally the hooker as well.

Xaba is a renowned fetcher….hell renowned in what circles?

What about the Boks with Kolisi and Dud Toit doing the fetching. There’s a useless pair on the deck.

Deon Fourie, Marx and Vermeulen were our three fetchers who could deliver.

Hall Of Fame

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Bulls played with Xaba at 6, a renowned fetcher

Stormers played with Deon Fourie at 6, a renowned fetcher

Get your facts straight - it had fuck all to do with the breakdown

"What is the job of Dud Toit….useless ball carrier, useless on the deck….maniacal process tackler, po or tackler in space. A misplaced lock."

Sies man!!!

Dave I do believe these abysmally dumb Poms could get the award wrong. Etzebeth should have got it, as the effect of his absence at the Sharks demonstrates.

Dud Toit is not a great ball carrier. Best you can say for him is he hangs onto the ball. No acceleration, no step, no power through the tackle, easily put away, no offload.

I keep asking the question, other than process tackling what does this man do better than the average international….but all I get is claims I don’t understand. So here’s another chance explain it to me.

I'm colorblind Moz, what kinda blind are you ?...it's way worse...

...it p!$$3$ me off no end...

So bloody insulting...I get some of his views and observations,  but boy, the majority of his conclusions are way off the mark.

Their are like 200 rucks per game, far more than lineouts and scrums combined. This is the platform to implement a game plan. 

When things go bad, it is clumsy slow possesion. Remember Hougaard against Ireland a few years ago. He never played scrumhalf again - despite the forwards giving him poor possesion. 

When the Boks are gaining parity at the rucks, their forwards can dominate the collisions by running onto the ball at pace. ensuring front foot ball. Then pick and goes around the base of the ruck is usually enough to create space.

Hanekom looks good, he is my type of loose forward (an all-rounder)
Vermuelen could change his role from being a fetcher to a ball carrier, and vice versa depending on how the game was going. Having a player that can adapt to the situation is much better.

Unlike say the Creatine Twins, where you are up shit creek without a paddle if the opposition is playing well at the ruck,.

But still you can’t explain what Dud Toit does beyond making a lot of process tackles. 

He averages about a meter a run, same as most locks and well behind the talented loosie ball carriers.

This is like a religion, just believe. Sorry show me the numbers. I understand in the final he made a lot of tackles . But even that isn’t generally true. Against France in the WC he made 9 and missed 5! He actually had a poor game…..never discussed.

Against Ireland he had 6 runs for 8 metres. Doris had 9 runs for 25 metres.

Against England he made 9 tackles, Mostert made 18.

Against England he had 8 runs for 14 metres…Lawes his Pom equivalent had 10 runs for 43 metres.

Dud Toit a great runner….try another one.

What’s beyond comprehension Dave is all the contributions one can’t find in the numbers. And if it pisses you off Draad, it’s only because somewhere in that bowl of slush you call your brain there’s a tiny light flashing saying….he really isn’t a great runner.

But as always I’m open to facts, opinions from rugby writers are just emotional rambling.

I anticipate a ceremonial Woosh from Draad

Draad is often offended. Rarely persuasive.

Because you deliberately offend...nothing wrong with my brain...you calling a two time POTY useless is offensive to me and most real Bok fans...and the case you make is not persuasive...it is short sighted...some would even say stupid...but I never do... you are not nearly as clever as you think you are...you just have more time on your hands.

I don't have the time now...more later...

"What’s beyond comprehension Dave is all the contributions one can’t find in the numbers. And if it pisses you off Draad, it’s only because somewhere in that bowl of slush you call your brain there’s a tiny light flashing saying….he really isn’t a great runner.

But as always I’m open to facts, opinions from rugby writers are just emotional rambling"

You are looking at the wrong numbers. I never said he is a great runner. I said he is a great player...you say he is massively over rated...I punted him for POTY last year...guess what? I don't have to make an argument if the facts speak for themselves...and the facts aren't speaking, they're shouting, and you are on the wrong side of them.

"Pieter-Steph Du Toit is a highly regarded South African rugby player who primarily plays as a loose forward (flanker) but can also play lock. His versatility, athleticism, and work rate make him an important player for both the Springboks and his club team. However, your description seems to be a criticism of his performance, particularly focusing on certain aspects of his game.

While some may criticize certain areas of his play, it's important to remember that Du Toit has been a key player for South Africa, including in their 2019 Rugby World Cup-winning team, where he was named the World Rugby Player of the Year. His job on the field is far from "useless." In fact, Du Toit is known for his incredible defensive work rate, his ability to disrupt opposition ball at the breakdown, and his leadership qualities. He's especially effective in "maniacal" defensive roles, where his tackling and work rate in contact situations are critical. While it’s true he may not always be the most dynamic ball carrier or the best tackler in open space, his contributions in other areas—such as breakdown work and defensive intensity—are highly valued.

Du Toit’s role, especially in a system like South Africa’s, where forwards are asked to be physical, aggressive, and disruptive, means that his strengths in tight play, tackling close to the ruck, and contesting at the breakdown far outweigh any perceived weaknesses. In other words, although he might not be a traditional ball carrier or an open-field tackler, his overall contribution to the team's defensive structure and physicality is immense.

Ultimately, while opinions on individual players can vary, Du Toit’s qualities and achievements, especially in a team-focused, tactical game like rugby, demonstrate his importance and value in the Springboks' system."

ChatGPT

Moz: "I keep asking the question, other than process tackling what does this man do better than the average international….but all I get is claims I don’t understand. So here’s another chance explain it to me."

ChatGPT: "Pieter-Steph Du Toit’s contributions go far beyond just "process tackling," though it's clear that he excels in that area. If you're looking for a deeper assessment of his skills and what sets him apart, here are several key aspects of his game where he stands out relative to the average international player:

1. Defensive Work Rate & Breakdown Presence

Du Toit is widely known for his work rate around the field, especially at the breakdown. He’s an exceptional jackal—able to win turnovers and disrupt the opposition's ball. While many players can tackle, Du Toit's ability to consistently contest for the ball and force turnovers in critical moments is one of his defining strengths. This ability to slow down the opposition's attack or win crucial penalties at the breakdown is a major asset for his team.

2. Lineout Ability

While Du Toit may not be as tall as a traditional lock, he has excellent lineout skills, both as a jumper and in the calling of set pieces. His versatility allows him to shift between lock and flanker with ease, and his lineout skills, especially in key moments, add considerable value to the Springboks’ forward pack.

3. Tackling & Defensive Physicality

While you mentioned that he is "poor in space," it's important to note that Du Toit is a highly physical tackler, particularly in close contact and around the ruck area. His tackling in tight spaces and in structured defensive patterns is often described as effective, even if he may not be as agile in wide open spaces. His defensive decision-making, especially in structured defensive systems like South Africa's, is highly effective.

4. Work Rate & Endurance

One thing that sets Du Toit apart is his incredible work rate. He covers a huge amount of ground during a match, constantly involved in defensive duties, carrying when needed, and engaging in ruck contests. This stamina allows him to be a key figure throughout the 80 minutes, often staying involved in multiple facets of play, even when other forwards are less active.

5. Leadership & Composure

Du Toit has also shown leadership qualities, often being a calming influence on the field and a vocal figure in the forward pack. His presence, even if he is not always in the limelight, helps maintain structure and discipline in tight situations. In the 2019 and 2023 World Cups, his leadership and experience in high-pressure situations were invaluable.

6. Adaptability

The ability to switch between the lock and back row positions adds a dimension of versatility to Du Toit’s skill set. In both positions, he contributes significantly to the physicality and tactical play. This adaptability is a huge asset in the modern game, where fluidity in roles can be key to maintaining unpredictability and keeping opponents on their toes.

Conclusion:

While Du Toit may not excel in every individual skill (e.g., open-field tackling or high-volume ball carrying), his value lies in his comprehensive skill set and his ability to impact all areas of the game. His tackling, work rate, defensive breakdown skills, leadership, and versatility across positions make him a standout forward, even if he doesn't always shine in flashy ways. His overall contribution goes beyond what the "average" international player offers, and he’s become one of the cornerstones of the South African team for a reason.

Moz: " What’s beyond comprehension Dave is all the contributions one can’t find in the numbers. And if it pisses you off Draad, it’s only because somewhere in that bowl of slush you call your brain there’s a tiny light flashing saying….he really isn’t a great runner.

But as always I’m open to facts, opinions from rugby writers are just emotional rambling."

ChatGPT: "It seems you're expressing a frustration with the way certain aspects of Pieter-Steph Du Toit's game might be overlooked or undervalued in favor of more quantifiable metrics like running stats or ball carries. This is a common issue in rugby, where some contributions—such as defensive work, leadership, and breakdown presence—can often go unrecognized in box scores or match reports. You’re right in noting that these intangible aspects of his game don’t always appear in the numbers, but they’re often central to his overall value to the team.

Rugby, like many sports, can sometimes place too much emphasis on measurable statistics (such as meters gained, tries scored, or tackles made) rather than evaluating the broader impact a player has on the game. Du Toit might not be a "great runner" in the sense of breaking through defenses or carrying for long distances, but his role in the team is often about doing the gritty, less glamorous work that is essential for success—like maintaining defensive structure, contesting at the breakdown, and providing physicality in tight situations. These contributions are felt in the overall cohesion of the team but might not show up on a highlights reel or in traditional statistics.

You're also touching on a broader point about rugby analysis, where "emotional rambling" from writers or pundits can sometimes cloud the nuanced evaluation of a player’s role. At the end of the day, facts and opinions often need to be balanced to fully appreciate a player's contribution. In Du Toit’s case, he may not be the most flashy or dynamic ball carrier, but his consistent, selfless play and versatility are often what make him such a valuable part of the team.

Ultimately, while numbers can provide a snapshot, they can never fully capture the complex, multifaceted nature of rugby, and Du Toit is a perfect example of this. His value to the team is evident not just in his running stats but in the myriad ways he influences the game on both sides of the ball, often in ways that don't make the headlines but are crucial to success."

Moz still playing golf...