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FORUM / RUGBY /  The future Sharks Team - Rebuilding requirements

The future Sharks Team - Rebuilding requirements

Started by clevermike25 REPLIES489 VIEWS· 24 May 2015, 09:08
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 May 2015, 09:08
#1
24 May 2015, 09:08#1

Lets look at the present situation of the Sharks quad and what should be added to get to a reasonable and competitive future squad.  Other contributions from site members augmenting what I wrote here will  be most welcome as well:-


Full Back


SP Marais is the only specialist full back they have.  The other option is to play Mvovo at full back- but I think he is more of a wing than a full back.  A third option is to put Frans Steyn there - he has had an early history of playing at full back, but he has lost so much pace in recent years - he may be too slow for the job.  Another option would be to put JP there - another player who started his career at full back, but he also have a serious pace problem.


The Sharks should have the necessary squad members to deal with position adequately.


Wings


Sithole is developing nicely and there are other youngsters that can come into the picture.   I would also see Mvovo on the wing and not at full back.   I think they need to look at the Under 20's and try and find some wings from the other franchises with little chance to play top rugby for those franchises because of the present set-up in those franchises.


Centers  


I do not think there is a future in any of the centers that actually played Super Rugby this year other than Andre Esterhuizen.   Esterhuizen was very raw - but has serious potential.   The other center specialist they have is Paul Jordaan.  The centers need drastic review and if I was the Sharks they should try and draft in players like Stokkies Hanekom and Ruan Janse van Rensburg into their squad.  They must also try and entice Jackson - the Under 20 Bulls center - who has a string of other 12's ahead of him in the Bull's hierarchy - to come to the Sharks.


Flyhalfs


They desperately need a reasonable back-up flyhalf for Lambie.  I think that both Zeilinga and Cronje is not good enough.  Van der Walt of the Lions has serious potential, but he seems to be the no 2 flyhalf of the Lions and the chances of getting him is zero-minus.


Scrumhalves


No Problem - adequate       


Loosies


The only reliable loosies they have at present are Coetzee and Bothma.  They have now contracted  Jacques Potgieter and they can add the Du Preez twins to the mix.  That should be enough to get them into a better situation than they have at present.


Locks 


At present thy have Du Toit, Lewies and Oosthuizen as locks and they could add to that Potgieter and one of the Du Preez twins as well.   


Props


They have Thomas du Toit, Adriaanse  and Chadwick.  I am not impressed by the latter two and I think they need to look at another two props at least.  


Hooker


Marais is adequate - but I think it may be possible to entice Marx to join them since his selection to the  Lions team seems to be effectively blocked.


In dealing with the above - I took note of the fact that the Du Plessis Brothers are leaving them and so is Willem Alberts.   Bismarck is a big loss - the other two should have been replaced already.





HA
hakwa
Pro4,146 posts
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
24 May 2015, 09:10
#2
24 May 2015, 09:10#2
 I think Willem should stay until some young new players are blooded for the transition period
SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
24 May 2015, 12:47
#3
24 May 2015, 12:47#3
Sharks have a few youngsters coming up:
Marius Louw - CenterInnocent Radebe - FlyhalfDu Preez twinsHyron Andrews - LockRuan Kramer - Tighthead prop
The only position that seems to be a problem is wing.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
24 May 2015, 13:10
#4
24 May 2015, 13:10#4
They have trouble at halfback and their aging front row. None of their first choice half backs are specialists in their positions; Lambie is a fullback who has shown no aptitude for 10 and Reinach is a man who can run fast . It isn't working. The front row needs to be dealt with now because that is where they have founded their dominance. Everything about the Sharks is the pack, not the backline.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 May 2015, 14:02
#5
24 May 2015, 14:02#5
 Letsal
They have problems at center - Steyn is not worth to be kept in  that position.  Then they have the problems at lock and loosie.  The prop situation is precarious.
They do not have problems at halfback - that is only in your imagination.  If as Shezza say Innocent Radebe makes the grade at flyhalf - that position will be adequately covered.
They have Reinach, Ungerer and Hoffmann at scrummie - so no problems there either.
 
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
24 May 2015, 18:29
#6
24 May 2015, 18:29#6
If they lose Frans they lose a key generator of momentum who also helps mask the frailties at 10 and 13. Reinach is a technically flawed scrumhalf. He has a vastly inferior skill set than Hougaard, who gets more criticism. Reinach was an embarrassment on tour.  Besides, a crabbing 9 with a shorter passing game is not useful regardless of athleticism. Maybe in three years time he will round out his game. Big ifs at 10. Lots of options tried, but none have excelled more than Frans - who I do not regard as a specialist 10 any more than I consider Butch a 12! They have their biggest problems in the backline at 9 and 10, then 13.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 May 2015, 19:09
#7
24 May 2015, 19:09#7
 Letsal
Are you dreaming again?  Lets see what you wrote and decide then:-
 "Well, if they lose Frans they lose a key generator of momentum ..." 

When did that happen and how did it happen?   Have seen no sign of that since 2012 - so what makes that statement of yours a legitimate observation?   Frans who made 3 line breaks in 2 years beating 16 tackles in 27 matches - how did he creates momentum?
Suppose it is back to dreamworld again. 
By the way - in the CC last year the Sharks backline functioned much better than they did while Fransie was around.  How do you explain that one?     

GE
generaltit
Pro3,164 posts
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
24 May 2015, 19:52
#8
24 May 2015, 19:52#8
I surmise the problem is deeper than this...perhaps the problem does not  lie with individuals but rather with the management and discipline with the squad....the team has to be correctly managed and tutored and built...no man is bigger than the team...I suspect that the members of the squad have been somewhat put out out of step by the traumatic changes since Plumtree's dismissal. I believe their loyalties were supressed and confused because Plum was respected and loved by members of the squad...young men look up to mentors and become somewhat disorientated by the dismisal of a mentor that augured respect...Jake White, although a good coach provided a short burst of success but it seems that Jake had hidden agendas and used the Sharks to try a bash at earning an accolade but I suspect there again it was shallow...he favoured certain players and created a sort of hierachy or pecking order amongst them...if you understand my drift. That's my simple 2 cents worth.

Teich I think knows what's wrong and has summarised the problem in previous posted comments.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 May 2015, 20:28
#9
24 May 2015, 20:28#9
 Seb
You are 100% correct here as to the problems that has engulfed the Sharks after the departure of Plumtree.   The other player highly respected by the players was Daniel - treated by White like dirt.   Once Plumtree and Daniel was gone - divisions within the team developed and the team spirit was gone out of the window.   In that White played a role as well by creating a pecking order with his favourites on top and the rest of the team at the bottom.  
In one of the games last year there was a typical example of the latter.  Towards the end of one game Fransie got benched late and White walked down to the side of the field.  Fransie hugged him - White ignored the other players on the side completely.
In the end the majority of the team rebelled and those who were supposed to/ resign their contracts refused to do so. 
It had nothing to do with player discipline as was alleged in the recent article of Keo and everything to do with the lack of team spirit after the departure of Plumtree.      
I think the Sharks did better in the SA conference partly because the other SA teams was pathetic in Super 15 and one of them had to get the no 3 spot on the log and qualify for a home play-off game.   The Sharks got it and by a fluke won the game against the Highlanders by the narrowest margin imaginable after losing against the same team by a wide margin in the round robin stage of the tournament.  
The other problem with the Sharks was the contracting of players unacceptable to the NH Clubs - players like Wentzel, Botha and Stevens, as well as Murray - while local talent available to the Sharks was neglected.   Some of the players they had was on the downward slope as to performance as well and they were hard hit by key player injuries involving players like Du Toit, Jordaan, Lewies, Lambie and Reinach.
in essence some of their senior players are departing and the "geriatrics"  need to be replaced, while some players like Francois Steyn talk and does not produce the goods.   Teichmann knows what is happening inside the team and has spoken out about it previously.  H e also said their is a need for squad strengthening and team building, so one can expect some serious changes in the CC and in next years Super 18.                
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 May 2015, 20:36
#10
24 May 2015, 20:36#10

The six match losing streak was all a Frans conspiracy....it started when Frans deliberately got carded....and only ended when he came back. But an amusing piece Moronic, I particularly enjoyed your dry humour when you said:

 

"I do not think there is a future in any of the centers that actually played Super Rugby this year other than Andre Esterhuizen.   Esterhuizen was very raw - but has serious potential"

 

Funny stuff.

 

 

SH
Shezza
Pro2,471 posts
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
24 May 2015, 20:59
#11
24 May 2015, 20:59#11
Moz just to say he's 21, there's is time of which nobody knows what will/could happen with regards to his potential. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 May 2015, 21:09
#12
24 May 2015, 21:09#12
 Mozart
Are you seriously funny or just delirious.
The following results were achieved by the Sharks and the games he played in was highlighted:-
Cheetahs    -  loss 35 -29Lions          -  win  29 -12Bulls           -  loss  43-35Stormers     -  loss  29-13Cheetahs    -  win  27-10Chiefs          -  win  12-11  *Force          -   win  15-9Crusaders   -  loss  52-10Lions         -  loss 23-21Bulls          -  loss 17-10Highlanders -  loss 48-15Hurricanes  -  loss 32-24Waratahs   -   loss 33-18Reds            -   win  21-14
*  Steyn was red-carded early in this game and the Sharks won the game as a result of the accurate goal kicking and play management by Lambie and Reinach.

I cannot help it if you overdose on stupid pills - so lets look at the actual record.   Steyn played in 7 matches thus far in Super 15.   The Sharks won 4 of those - but since he was red-carded in the one match won by them - he played essentially a negative roll in that game and the Sharks won a game Steyn deserve no credit for.  
The three games they won with Steyn around was against three of the five weakest teams in Super 15 - the Cheetahs, the Force and the Reds.   Evaluating the Steyn stats it is clear that the Sharks won those despite Steyn's presence on the team-sheets since his performances in the games was in the main not game outcome deciders.
I think there is potential for Esterhuizen to develop and to condemn him outright at this early stage of his career is just based on prejudice.   
Seriously funny stuff coming as per normal from you.     
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 May 2015, 23:04
#13
24 May 2015, 23:04#13
So riddle me this Moronic, how many of the 7 games Frans did not play did the Sharks win? 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 00:22
#14
25 May 2015, 00:22#14
Mozart
I do not believe that one player can win matches and certainly not Steyn with his seriously defective stats.   One or two players can lose matches because of seriously deficient play and donating wins to the opposition.
When it comes to Steyn - the list was given above so I do not have to repeat that info.   The question is would he have made a difference to the matches the Sharks lost and the answer should be based on his overall performances this year.      Overall in the matches he played in his performances were average to poor with serious defensive and attacking play deficiencies.   If you do not believe me go and see his stats.             
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 May 2015, 00:30
#15
25 May 2015, 00:30#15
Riddle me this Moronic, how many of the 7 games Frans did not play did the Sharks win? 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 00:43
#16
25 May 2015, 00:43#16
Mozart 
Are you still unable to count?   You still believe that Fransie is the only player who made a difference through his presence in the games.   I would say he did not - since his performances when he played was so indifferent, that it can be said he would have made a difference to the outcome of matches.         
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 May 2015, 00:56
#17
25 May 2015, 00:56#17
Riddle me this Moronic, how many of the 7 games Frans did not play for the Sharks did they win?  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 01:20
#18
25 May 2015, 01:20#18
Matter of fact in the list above the games Fransie played in was highlighted in the opening message under this thread.  So there is no riddle at all. 
Riddle me this one - do you seriously believe that Fransies stats were so good that his presence in the Sharks team in the games he did not play in would have resulted in a change in the outcome? 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 May 2015, 01:41
#19
25 May 2015, 01:41#19
It's a simple question if you have the guts to answer it. Riddle me this Moronic, how many of the 7 games Frans didn't play for the Sharks did they win?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 May 2015, 06:10
#20
25 May 2015, 06:10#20
 It is very easy - they won only 2 of 8 games.  He was on the teamsheet for the one game they won - but he was redcarded and was thus a dead loss for the team,  But that is not at all material in this case.   What is material and you are too gutless to deal with that issue - what was Steyn's statistical record for the Sharks when he did play insofar as performance is concerned.    Was his poor statistical record indicative that he in fact would have made a positive contribution so that the results of the matches would have been turned around?  
Did you also ignore that players like Bismarck, Lewies, Lambie and Reinach also missed some if not all of the games lost when Steyn did not play, so why ignore the absence of these players during the winning drought and make out that the absence of the consistent serious under-performance by Steyn was the reason for at least some of the games not being won?
You are too gutless to deal with the Steyn stats this year - just like you were too gutless to deal with that issue in 2014, so you ignored it completely last year and is repeating that this year.  What an idiot!!!!!!!       
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 May 2015, 01:17
#21
26 May 2015, 01:17#21
 Another cowardice departure by the gutless Mozart from an issue he cannot dispute and is incapable to accept - since it exposes his under-performing hero Francois Steyn.  Gutless he is and snakesh!t he remains.   
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 May 2015, 01:58
#22
26 May 2015, 01:58#22
Riddle me this Moronic,  how many of the Sharks seven games Frans didn't play, were won by the Sharks? Just provide the number.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 May 2015, 03:27
#23
26 May 2015, 03:27#23
 I answered that BSter - just answer me on the issue raised by me.    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 May 2015, 04:40
#24
26 May 2015, 04:40#24
No you didn't ....how many games  have the Sharks won without Frans?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 May 2015, 04:45
#25
26 May 2015, 04:45#25
 Go back five contributions and you will find the answer clearly in that case.   It clearly said 2 wins - since the game where Steyn was red-carded is not a game where he made any positive contribution - in fact it effectively led to sabotaging of the team effort.  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 May 2015, 05:09
#26
26 May 2015, 05:09#26
You are a low fellow Moronic....how many games have they won without Frans in the team. It's a simple number, not a book....provide the number.
— END OF THREAD —

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