The highest success ratio for any recent Bok combination?
Moz, you get lies, damn lies and then you get statistics...I like Morné and Heineke isn't too shabby, but this line of reasoning is just wrong....on so many levels.
Mozart
Draad is correct here - you are always come with "stats" as a prove of what? Some theory you dreamed up and then finds it is full of holes.
Lets refer to Meyer and Morne for instance. In the three years Meyer used Morne at flyhalf - how many tests did SA win against the AB's - none is the answer How many away tests did SA win against Australia - 1 out of three.
You include the June 2013 tests (3) against some of the weakest teams ever visiting SA in June any year.
But lets get back to Morne Steyn and look at what he produced, He was so poor in 2012 that Meyer was forced to drop him ONCE from the team - he was so poor in 2014 that Meyer was forced into dropping him TWICE from the Springbok team.
Morne still is part and parcel of the headaches of Stade Fracais. He us ed to be their bench player and was contracted by Brive to the delight of the Stade Francais. So what happened then? Meyer got appointed and called back Morne to Stade Francais,
Sharkbok gave details as to the latest collapse of Stade Francais, Meyer got Nicolas Sanchez contracted and the first game he played in Stade Francais won. With Morne it would have been another loss.
Look I know Morne is the type of flyhalf you like. Mostly have an accurate goal kicking ability with an average 80% success rate. His kicking out of hand was disastrously poor and inaccurate. He virtually never attacked the gain line in ball carries and as a backline pivot he was very poor.
It was indeed a surprise that Morne lasted as long as he did as Springbok flyhalf,
Mozart
Hell - but you are as dim in rugby as YOU ARE brilliant in finance and economics. What have you proved about Morne and Meyer? Really nothing of consequence - because you are ignoring real practical facts.
The question remains - how many tests did the SPRINGBOKS won DESPITE MORNE and how many did they lose or drew BECAUSE OF MORNE? For that you have to go through all the tests played and then evaluate what really happened. You know everyone is not interested enough in the never-has-been to spend time doing that - so you can write whatever you wish and hope people will believe that,
OK Moz, so you are saying the raw data suggest Mornè should be at 10 with Meyer coaching the team??? Matfield at 5 and Jean at 12 to boot? When will the data say we should move on?
And if you are also to stupid to see that this is a response to Stupid Mike's newest hate-campaign, then there is no hope for you either!
Ag Foeitog Trooth Fairy- so Draad's reasoning is pathetic. Yours is worse - since the reasoning is totally absent at all.
First of all what has Morne Steyn to do with this year within the present scenario, Fact is he failed as Springboks flyhalf since 2012 and is now failing Stade Francais.
Nice guy he is - but as a rugby flyhalf he was and is a dead loss.
Uhm Stupid Maaik,
Sadly I cannot draw you a picture on here.
Let me break it down for you in text. But I do see your reading and comprehensions skills are non-existent...
1. Mozart makes an informative post about the past, without mentioning the present
2. DbDraad tries to apply it to the present
3. I remind DbDraad that it is merely a post about the past
4. You reply "First of all what has Morne Steyn to do with this year within the present scenario"...
Now let me try to explain it S L O W L Y
The past is not the same as "this year within the present"
Next time, before you try argue against yourself. Stop for a moment and FOCUS! After all, it's not that difficult! Manuke!
Sport with the highest mortality rate: Lawn Bowls.
r0.99 between US spending on science, space and technology and suicides by hanging, strangulation, and suffocation.
r0.94 between Per capita cheese consumption and number of people who died by becoming entangled in their bedsheets.
This clown deals almost exclusively in cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Giggling, hebephrenic Wolfgang is a fitting icon.
Truth, before calling someone STUPID...repratedly, you should mabe check your own comprehension skills. Tell me, what does a question mark mean? Why does one ask a question?
Whoosh!!!
21 starts....5 losses and 2 draws...14 wins...67%...still good but not 80%
Frans Steyn at fullback under Snô rre... 8 wins from 9 starts...89%
2 wins vs The Lions
3 wins vs NZ
2 wins vs Aus and the 1 loss
1 win vs Wales
Not sies, it's raw data...and I mentioned the draws...and I said it's still a very good stat. ...I'm not against Meyer or Morné.
Smaller sample set, but all against top of the tier teams.
If you start working on the data, one tends to slant things a bit
This story should just be seen the last two weeks. The last two weeks in games between Stade Francais and Ospreys with the famous Meyer - Morne combination and without the combination so beloved by Mozart is clear:-
With your beloved Morne
Stade Francais lost by 20 - 51
Without your beloved Morne
Stade Francais won by 12-3
Smell the coffee dear Mozart? Those are real facts this year happening in succeeding weeks,
With your beloved Morne
Stade Francais lost by 20 - 51
Without your beloved Morne (and another 12 of the previous starters)
Stade Francais won by 12-3
Haha, and so the truth surfaces. Despite Mike's protestations that his post was actually about Sanchez, here's more proof that it was all about Morne. I added in the necess ary correction.
Bashing Morne, Fransie and Meyer is Maaik's catnip. Can't help himself. Setting Maaik straight is catnip too for some...
I don't have all that much else to do in my free time, Draad
Lol Pakie...I'm OK with Maaik, but there are some others akin to catnip for me.
So lets look a bit at Morne's performance in tests:-
Under De Villiers
Morne had one brilliant test in 2009 against the AB's in which he scored all 31 Springbok test by scoring 1 try and being successful with 8 penalty and his own try conversion.
He developed a reputation as a goal kicking player - with very little else to offer.
Under Meyer
2012
Played in 7 tests - Wins 3
Draws 2
Losses 2
Was then dropped by Meyer because of sub-par performances
2013
Played in 12 tests - Wins 10
Losses 2
2014
Played in 3 tests - Wins 2
Losses 1
Was then dropped from the test squad and never again started under Meyer in any test
Summary of Games under Meyer
Wins - 15
Losses - 5
Draws - 2
Not an entirely convincing winning record by any account. In the period mentioned -
* Morne's defense record was good in 2012 and deteriorated badly in 2013 and 2014
* His goal kicking - normally his only real asset - in 2012 deserted him, that being the reason for his dropping by Meyer from the test squad;
* his kicking out of hand in 2012 was very, very poor
* the Springboks played Scotland, Italy and Samoa in the June series and won all three - how much does these three wins against minions counted in a broader context and advancing the winning record by dubious means;
* Morne regained his goal kicking form in 2013 - but there was nothing to write home about in the rest of his games - his out of hand kicking was still sub-satndard and his defense was poor, while his decision-making went for a loop
* in the second Welsh test in June 2014 - Morne - despite a narrow win - had a shockingly poor game and Meyer dropped him from the team in the next three tests;
* he was bought back in the away test against Australia and was so poor that he lost the test in Perth on his own through horrible defense - making 8 tackles missing 7 - and a disastrous penalty line kick that did not find touch and led top the counter-attack resulting in an Aussie try and loss of the test.
Mozart's comments
"What is this dream team that almost guaranteed the Boks a win.....why it's the obvious combination of HM as coach and Morne Steyn at flyhalf. The most winning line up of the new millenium thus far.
It's kind of obvious, HM without Morne won a lot less....and Morne was never as lethal playing in a different game pattern. But together, over 25 tests, they were massive."
So what was the real situation as to Morne's record under Meyer looking only at his starting tests. There never was a 20 wins out of 25 tests played record. The real figures are outlined above.
What Mozart failed to mention was that Morne was so disastrously poor in 2012 that a tearful Meyer dropped him from the playing squad for the rest of the RC series and the EOYT (5).
In 2013 - the June tests were against minnow teams and as a result the winning story was somewhat distorted.
In 2014 - Morne was shockingly poor in the second Wales test and disaster in the Perth test against Australia.
How the above can be regarded as a massive winning record by inflating the figures iro tests played under Meyer - which were actually 22 and by ignoring drawn games only Mozart can explain. In the end what he wrote is addition to his annual BS mountain.
So suddenly it is not the starting line-ups that count. And the story is totally different from what you wrote above, Making out that it as wrong not to continue using Morne was a mistake by Meyer.
What is that period you are freeing to? In your opening statement you refer to the period of Meyer and Steyn as a combination In the Meyer era the Boks in total played n 49 tests. In those games Morne started in 22 tests only - and I left out the few times he was on the bench.
So Meyer should have kept Morne and continue losing games because he was all along substandard and by 2014 a total disaster?
So suddenly it is not the starting line-ups that count. And the story is totally different from what you wrote above, Making out that it as wrong not to continue using Morne was a mistake by Meyer.
What is that period you are freeing to? In your opening statement you refer to the period of Meyer and Steyn as a combination In the Meyer era the Boks in total played n 49 tests. In those games Morne started in 22 tests only - and I left out the few times he was on the bench.
So Meyer should have kept Morne and continue losing games because he was all along substandard and by 2014 a total disaster?
No Mozart a hard biscuit must have some substance. Morne was by 2014 anything bar a match loser. The fact is he was dropped by Meyer after the Perth fiasco so do you blame Meyer for dropping Morne without any reason whatsoever?
After all Meyer stated that he select players on reputation and not based necessarily on present performance. Knowing that - Morne must have been very poor for Meyer to even consider dropping his braai friend from the squad in 2014.
Anyway - it was Meyer total ignorance in his team, selection that ultimately caused the higher loss ratio than when the disastrous Morne was dropped. Imagine trying to win test when the team has had so many has-beens and never-has-beens in the squad, Just consider the Japan disaster as an example. And the losses in all the test in the RC in 2015 In the period November 2014 and 19 September 2015 - the Springboks under Meyer won only 2 tests - three if the practice game against the Argentinian "B" team is taken into account as a "test". Woul;d Morne have made a difference in those 8 (9) tests. Sure - he would have in my opinion/ The losing margins would have been double what they in fact were if his performances in the three tests he did play are borne in mind.
By 2015 Morne firmly established himself as the Stade Francais BENCH flyhalf and he remained that until the end of his previous contract with the club in 2017. And the result of Meyer's generosity was the record losing margins of Stade Francais this year, The last two weekends s a typical example of what happens if Morne did play and did not.
So Mozart - what really is the situation in this case? I would think that instead of discussing things practically you use statistical abuse to prove what???????????
.
The fact is that Morne was proven to be one of the worst flyhalfs imaginable and he was dropped from the team three times exactly for that reason. You cannot use stats to disprove his chronically poor performances - bar kicking a goal - and to prove that he was in fact a good enough flyhalf without using his own nightmare stats anyway.
In any event Meyer's whole selection approach started to go drastically wrong in 2014 and it was not only Morne that went into downward slide. You can check the performance of virtually everyone of his "rugby geriatrics" that went the same way, One cannot win rugby with that kind of situation.
But then you refuse to recognize facts happening on the rugby field and rely on trying to use stats for all kinds of impossible means - so there is nothing really to discuss.
The fact is that Morne was proven to be one of the worst flyhalfs imaginable and he was dropped from the team three times exactly for that reason. You cannot use stats to disprove his chronically poor performances - bar kicking a goal - and to prove that he was in fact a good enough flyhalf without using his own nightmare stats anyway.
In any event Meyer's whole selection approach started to go drastically wrong in 2014 and it was not only Morne that went into downward slide. You can check the performance of virtually everyone of his "rugby geriatrics" that went the same way, One cannot win rugby with that kind of situation.
But then you refuse to recognize facts happening on the rugby field and rely on trying to use stats for all kinds of impossible means - so there is nothing really to discuss.


