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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Kings as a Super 15 Franchise

The Kings as a Super 15 Franchise

Started by clevermike24 REPLIES576 VIEWS· 12 Nov 2015, 07:09
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 07:09
#1
12 Nov 2015, 07:09#1
When politics and not rugby merit becomes the norm - you get the situation where decisions are taken on the wrong basis.  The inclusion of the Kings in the Super Series is a typical example of what is wrong in the SA Rugby set-up.   Have a look at the following from news 24:-
"The Eastern Province Kings could face a player exodus after the union again failed to pay the players’ salaries.   According to Rugby365, the 10-day deadline for paying the players' October salaries expired at midnight on Tuesday without any action from management.

Nyaniso Sam, a spokesperson for the South African Rugby Players Association (SARPA), confirmed that no salaries were paid to players by the midnight cut-off on Tuesday.

This means that from the legal perspective, the players can cancel existing contracts with the Eastern Province Rugby Union and take up matters elsewhere.


According to SARPA, players who do not have offers from others franchises also have the option of staying away from training until their salaries are paid in full.


Earlier this week, the EP Rugby Union also faced an allegation that ratepayers' money was being channelled to pay the running costs of the union and players' salaries.   EPRU executive member Vernon Stuurman refuted the claims via a media statement.

He said: “The Eastern Province Rugby Union has noted media reports on allegations made by the Ratepayers Association and AfriForum Port Elizabeth of money being paid to Access Management to fund the EP Kings.


“As the finance referred to is said to have come from the Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality, EP Rugby regards itself as a major stakeholder playing a particular part in the space of participatory governance.


“As a responsible anchor tenant of Access Management, we take pride in our business relationship with them which is built on sound business ethics. Anyone who wishes to imply differently should do so on their own.”


The men from Port Elizabeth had a torrid Currie Cup season, winning only two matches to finish second from bottom on the overall log.   They will also compete as the sixth South African team in an expanded Super Rugby season from next season."


The answer is clear on two fronts.   In the first instance we have the standard situation as to looting of the finances by an ANC-linked clique  - the situation being that the franchise consequently cannot pay their players.   Nobody wants to take over the sponsorship of a thoroughly discredited set-up.   


In the second case the Kings get money from the Nelson Mandela Metro - another ill-reputed Municipality.  So ratepayers money is channelled to the looters and despite that the players are still not paid their salaries.   The looters make absolutely sure of that one.


How this franchise could ever be considered as a Super Rugby participant is beyond imagination.  Their indefinite suspension from the competition should be dealt with asap.      

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
12 Nov 2015, 07:27
#2
12 Nov 2015, 07:27#2

 ...not so clever mike i see Toulon has offered to buy the franchise and take on the debts but in return for Toulon matches against the Springboks to help generate funds.


Toulon's Top 14 Rugby club owner Mourad Boudjellal is understood to be in talks to buy South Africa's struggling Super Rugby side the EP Kings.

The (Southern) Kings have been experiencing financial troubles for months and a ZAR 200 Million promised sponsorship has not materialised which has led to some players not being paid.


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The South African Rugby Union have pushed for the Kings return to Super Rugby and in just over three months they will return but there are reports that the Union is ZAR 80Million in debt.


Boudjellal has offered to buy the franchise and take on the debts but in return for Toulon matches against the Springboks to help generate funds.


Meanwhile the South African Rugby Players Association (SARPA) have given the Kings until Tuesday (November 10) to pay outstanding salaries for October or face action.

SARPA issued the deadline on the 31st of October but they say that they have not decided yet on what action they will take against the Kings if they do not comply.


EP Kings President Cheeky Watson has apparently left South Africa and is either in Australia for a family wedding or is in Europe chasing up the sponsorship according to two different reports.


Watson appears to have written off Boudjellal's offer due to the demand for Springbok matches, "There is not way to get two Bok Tests. I had to beg to get just one," Watson told a source.


If the Boudjellal offer does fall through the reported ZAR80 Million debt remains which is a huge concern for SA Rugby as the Kings expenses will drastically increase with their inclusion in Super Rugby.

SuperXV.com

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 07:45
#3
12 Nov 2015, 07:45#3
 Brycy
I saw that article as well.  The situation remains a nightmare and the only way out is for the whole structure of Kings rugby to be changes.  The cancer in the sett-ups remains Watson and his political  links to the ANC.  The Government has bailed out the EP Kings before - but it is getting dicey - hence using the Municipality getting involved.  Even that may not help - since the ANC may lose the ne xt local government elections in PE.
To my mind the way out is to suspend the Kings from participation in the Super Series - but that would mean they should either be replaced by another SA franchise or the whole match programme would have to be changed - which at this late stage would be seriously problematic.   
In fact I would be in favour of only four SA franchises be in Super 15 - with Argentina added as a fifth franchise in the Super series.  Japan can then eb included as a fifth franchise in the Australian conference - with the Rebels and the Force being united into one franchise.  
That would be a logical way to go forward in Super rugby - the present scenario is untenable and should be reviewed.          
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
12 Nov 2015, 08:16
#4
12 Nov 2015, 08:16#4
 Its what one would call a typical incompetent racist anc mess.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
12 Nov 2015, 08:17
#5
12 Nov 2015, 08:17#5
I wonder how much of the 80 million in debt went straight into Watson's pocket? Probably a large portion! 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2015, 12:15
#6
12 Nov 2015, 12:15#6
 " - with the Rebels and the Force being united into one franchise.  "
Distance from Perth to Melbourne.
Distance is 2727 kilometers or 1695 miles or 1472 nautical miles.
The distance is the theoretical air distance (great circle distance).

"That would be a logical way to go forward in Super rugby......"







SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
12 Nov 2015, 12:29
#7
12 Nov 2015, 12:29#7
Lets hope the Frenchman pumps loads of money into the Kings and turns it around
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 12:32
#8
12 Nov 2015, 12:32#8
 Ceradunce
How many times have you been to Australia - doffies? Trying to give me a geography lesson won't advance your stupidity.  


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2015, 12:38
#9
12 Nov 2015, 12:38#9
 I don't need to go to Aus to know that it is a kak idea to unite two franchise who are on opposite sides of Aus. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 12:56
#10
12 Nov 2015, 12:56#10
 Stupid bugger this bloody Ceradunce.   Knows zero about rugby and less about everything else.  Do you now that the Rebels have financial problems as well and that the Force did rarely make an impact in rugby performance?  
Big questions since the birdbrain does not know anything about anything.  Does not need a geography lecture from an idiot.
Lousy to be always more stupid than anybody else - not so Dofdoos ?   
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2015, 13:38
#11
12 Nov 2015, 13:38#11
Oh OK. The Rebels are having financial problems and the Force are struggling. Your solution is to unite them into one team, despite them being light years away from each other? Brilliant, mate, brilliant. 
Geez, how silly of me to considered about a minor little detail of 2,727km. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Nov 2015, 14:09
#12
12 Nov 2015, 14:09#12
The Kings suffer from an infirmity...it's called Watsonitis...amputation of the infection is the only cure and a disinfectant spray to be applied regularly , called anc-initis
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
12 Nov 2015, 14:15
#13
12 Nov 2015, 14:15#13
 well, it's not exactly the same but it could be considered so for practical meanings,Tokio and Singapur are going to be the 2 home sites for the Sunwolves, the Japanese SR franchise, each city handling 4 matches.

Tokio and Singapur are at a distance of 5.314 km. or 3.302 miles which is, more or less, double the distance from Perth to Melbourne.

it's a very silly and spendthrift measure IMO but very common nowadays.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:01
#14
12 Nov 2015, 15:01#14
 The SARU has been screwing up the Super Rugby for a long time now but this last SR-18 format that was introduced only because of the SARU's stubbornness for including a sixth SA franchise, the Kings, it's the height.

To begin with SA can barely complete 4 SR competitive teams, many of their forwards go to Europe and they cannot produce enough quality backline players, but the SARU sticked once and again in their effort to blow the SR-15 which already was a watered competition.
And now we have a competition of 18 teams where 2 of them are a f*cking joke. The Sunwolves presented some weeks ago their players' list to the SANZAR but they didn't dare to make it public. Imagine what team they were able to assemble!
As we can see the situation of the Kings is even worst. Let see how all this bankrupt issue end up but it cannot be good for the SH rugby.

The solution? easy, it goes through fixing what is wrong, the SA conference(s). The Kings, the Sunwolves and the Cheetahs (who won't be able to assemble a competitive team neither) out and go back to the SR-15 with a SA conference made of the other 4 SA teams and Argentina (who are going to present a very competitive team) .

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:41
#15
12 Nov 2015, 15:41#15
 " well, it's not exactly the same but it could be considered so for practical meanings,Tokio and Singapur are going to be the 2 home sites for the Sunwolves, the Japanese SR franchise, each city handling 4 matches"
That is not 100% correct, AB. They are only going to be playing some of their games in Singapore. Their home base will be in Tokyo. 
"The team is based in Tokyo,Japan, but will also play some home matches in Singapore."
"The SARU has been screwing up the Super Rugby for a long time now but this last SR-18 format that was introduced only because of the SARU's stubbornness for including a sixth SA franchise, the Kings, it's the height."
100% Correct and because of that and the way that the conferences for the S18 eventually panned out, SA is getting deeper and deeper into the dark smelly stuff with no light at the end of the tunnel. .......Or should we say at the bottom of the pit?
The problem is that it is not entirely the fault of the current crowd at SARU. It was actually started with the previous "regime" under Brian van Rooyen and his cohorts, back in the day when they didn't have the balls to make the right decision. The problem is also the fact that there are quite a number of egos in SA rugby, which also come into play at times when they really are not needed.



AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
12 Nov 2015, 17:34
#16
12 Nov 2015, 17:34#16
Unfortunately many ex rugby players cannot accept that fact that playing rugby as opposed to running/coaching a rugby union are two completely different animals.
Examples: Cheeky Watson (CEO - EP Kings)John Smit (CEO - Sharks)Gary Gold (Coach/Director - Sharks)Victor Matfield (Attacking Coach - Blue Bulls)

Not sure if it because they are ignorant or just plain stupid.
Sad to see what is happening but really can SA afford six teams in Super Rugby with respect to talent and the weak Rand.
I think not!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 17:49
#17
12 Nov 2015, 17:49#17
 AJ
That is my view as well - hence my suggestion for the SA franchises to have only four teas in Super Rugby.
Insofar as the examples mentioned by you are concerned -
*   Watson running anything is to expect disaster;*   John Smit has been an absolute disaster as CEO - he is clueless and makes the most stupid mistakes imaginable;*   Gold is not a coach's ass - or more likely he is; and*   Matfield as attack coach is unbelievable - the most stupid thing the Bulls have ever done.   
That type of incompetent involved in SA Rugby - what cna one expect from the teams they are or were involved in.
Incidentally the rate of jet speed by which  the Bulls released Matfield from his coaching contract is a telling sign that they desperately want to be rid of him since he was the cause of serious discord in the Bulls team.  
  
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
13 Nov 2015, 10:17
#18
13 Nov 2015, 10:17#18

 ...time to pull the plug on the Kings ?...as it's now being reported players have started leaving after months of not being paid for playing.. .


Former Shark and Kings captain Tim Whitehead has confirmed that he is leaving the Eastern Province club. This follows months of players not being paid and recently reports that the EP Municipality have allegedly been paying the players.


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Whitehead appears to be the first of many players to leave the Port Elizabeth-based franchise who failed to pay their players the October salaries.


Earlier this week on Tuesday a deadline from the South African Rugby Players' Association passed and the players have been told that they now have the right to legally terminate their contracts.


Whitehead has now confirmed that the time has come for him to call it a day with Eastern Province Rugby Union.

"These problems have been going on for a while, and it's been really tough for everyone affected," he told SARugbymag.

"You just get to the point when enough is enough and you've got to make a difficult decision."


Whitehead added that he was leaving without knowing where he will be playing next season.

"I don't have anything else secured at the moment, obviously playing in Super Rugby would have been first prize," said Whitehead.

"For me, it's about the lifestyle, and I'll look at whatever options there are, locally or abroad, and see what's out there."

Reports have also surfaced that other players such as props Lizo Gqoboka and Tom Botha, wings Luther Obi and Sylvian Mahuza as well as eighthman Tim Agabaand have also decided to leave.


Players who have chosen to stay have been told that since they have not been paid their are under no obligation to report to work next week when the Kings had planned to begin preparations for the new Super Rugby season.

SuperXV.com

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
13 Nov 2015, 10:32
#19
13 Nov 2015, 10:32#19
 SARU should be careful what they wish for eh ?What a friggin shambles .
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
13 Nov 2015, 10:54
#20
13 Nov 2015, 10:54#20
The Kings with the Watsons is kaput...when you have dishonest men running an outfit with hidden agendas, it's doomed and guaranteed to fail.

Promises made to Tim Whitehead and many others have fallen flat...indeed so bad that they cannot pay their players...that is totally unacceptable and a bloody disgrace.

The exodus is natural...no player worth his salt and concerned with his future will join this outfit until the Watsons are eradicated.

Yes Wardad it is shambles...it is a huge embarrassment to SA rugby fans and a smudge on the integrity of those who run  SA rugby as a whole.

The ANC is a criminal organisation...period.
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
13 Nov 2015, 11:16
#21
13 Nov 2015, 11:16#21

..was just reading about what might have been the makings of a good team had the Kings been able to retain their local players...

2 Scarra Ntubeni
3
4 Jacques Potgieter
5
6 Siya Kolisi
7 Ryan Kankowski
8 Dewald Potgieter
9 Rory Kockott / Jano Vermaak
10 Elton Jantjies / Johan Goosen
11 Lwazi Mvovo
12 Jan Serfontein
13 Lionel Mapoe / Paul Jordaan
14 Akona Ndugane
15 Odwa Ndungane


...and what is the contingency plan going forward ?...don't think the Japanese outfit have a coach yet either and are struggling hopelessly to form a team...talk about a complete goatfk ...time for SANZAR to wield the axe and announce a  2016 Super XVI comp..


...on the bright side am guessing some of the other SA franchises stand to gain a few ex Kings players to boost their squads..?

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
13 Nov 2015, 12:57
#22
13 Nov 2015, 12:57#22
The very sad thing is that the Eastern Cape is a huge "nursery" of future rugby players...in fact it always has been so.

Feeder schools that produce high standards of rugby are in Grahamstown,Port Elizabeth,East London,Kingwilliamstown,Queenstown and other EP and Border towns.

Most of the talented black players have their roots in this "Kings" region...there are far more Xhosas in rugby than Zulus,Sothos,Tswanas etc.

In fact to my knowledge all black players in Sharks, none are Zulu (local) (all Xhosas I think) and Tendai is Shona from Zimbabwe.

Something has to be done correctly and properly and EP rugby heale d and fixed.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Nov 2015, 21:15
#23
13 Nov 2015, 21:15#23
The Kings side for next season has been confirmed:
15. Willie 14. Savea 13. Fekitoa 12. de Allende 11. Milner-Skudder 10. Pollard 9. Aaron Smith 1. Kitshoff 2. Bismark 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. Retallick 6. Pocock 7. Picamole 8. Read
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
13 Nov 2015, 22:24
#24
13 Nov 2015, 22:24#24
care for another one Saf

I can offer you one these...it's straight out the fridge

 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 23:37
#25
13 Nov 2015, 23:37#25
 Bryxy 
All the players you mentioned are contracted with other franchises and the franchises will not send them to their doom in a cesspool of corruption.   
What is amazing is that the other smaller franchises - with much smaller populations and mostly comprising of smaller towns scattered over big areas - have never failed to pay their players and staff - it is the preserve of the Kings to do that,   Fact is the whole system is run by a political incompetent who never seems to go short in money.
The players are not paid - but he is in Australia allegedly for a family wedding - paid for by the Kings franchise because he "is trying to get a sponsorship for the Kings".  That is the way the Mafia operates and unfortunately the Kings has become the playing ground for Mafia elements in the ANC.
The saving grace for the franchise would be the removal of Watson and his cronies from having anything to do with the Franchise.   The running of the franchise should be taken over by SARU as an interim measure and then the sponsors will release money - they will not do so with Watson in charge.  
This is an absolute disgrace for SA Rugby and the sooner they act the better.  However, getting rid of their agent in the Kings set-up will not go down well with the ANC and that could have further political interference in the process.    

           
— END OF THREAD —

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