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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Kriel Factor

The Kriel Factor

Started by clevermike75 REPLIES851 VIEWS· 15 Apr 2015, 01:02
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 01:02
#1
15 Apr 2015, 01:02#1

There is with justification thunderous demands in the media  for the selection of Kriel  in the Springbok side - his performance in his first year in Super 15 has even eclipsed that of Pollard in last years Super 15.  


However, for me there is one uncertainty - in which position should he be played?  


*   Are we really that desperate in need of another full back or should we rather look elsewhere in the backline for a position for him.


*   Could Kriel be the solution to the number 13 position where Meyer played no less than 9 players since 2012 - none with particularly good results.


*    Is Kriel and other youngsters like Vorster and Odendaal not the answer at 13?


I believe that Willie le Roux is still highly-rated as a full back.  I think that he is put in a serious disadvantage because of the dull performances of the rest of the Springboks and Cheetahs backline and the fact that because he was the main playmaker in the backline until the arrival of Pollard allowed defenders to target him more than any other backline player.   Mallett said that he is trying too much and that could also be the result of too high a reliance on him by the Springboks and the Cheetahs.   If there are "sharper shooters" in the rest of the backline, Le Roux himself will have an easier life as a playmaker, since they would also have to consider other players to guard against.   


This is where I believe we should look at Kriel at 13.  That is the position in which he played in the Under20 WC last year.  He was brilliant in that position and was to my mind the best 13 in that tournament.   However, I believe that players like Vorster and Odendaal could also be back-ups for him in the 13 position, while they should also be the back-ups for De Allende at 12.


A backline consisting  all of Le Roux, Habana, Hougaard, Kriel, De Allende, Pollard and Reinach would be a handful for any international backline - especially since all the above can be regarded as excellent playmakers in their own right.   There are indeed other players in the same mould as well - I would include in that regard Lambie and De Klerk as well.   


Of the above only Habana is of the "old guard" - the rest are young players with a long playing career being possible.  There are already signs that other youngsters like Van Wyk and Kolbe can also develop in future to replace Habana.  


Our mistake is that we waited too long to make fundamental changes to the backline with players like Du Preez. Pienaar, Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn, JP Pietersen and Fourie du Preez from a glorious past losing their edge in the past few years.   There  was a serious downturn in the performances of De Villiers last year compared to 2013  and Fransie is not a shadow of the player he was before his departure for France.  Du Preez and Pienaar are way past their best as well and Morne never really was an acceptable flyhalf.  Fourie's last test performances was totally dull and uninspiring.   Of the above I would rate De Villiers in his prime as a playmaker - while to a much lesser extent Du Preez  could make a similar claim.  The rest was plain and simply journeymen.


My backline for the upcoming RC would be -


15   Le Roux

14    Hougaard

13   Kriel

12   De Allende

11   Habana

10   Pollard

  9   Reinach


The Bench should be as follows:-


21   De Klerk

22   Lambie

23   Serfontein


Other bench players to be considered could be Goosen, Vorster, Odendaal, Kolbe and Van  Wyk.   


The above backline as a whole would be an all-round better combination than any Springbok backline was during the past decade.   

                 


                

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
15 Apr 2015, 09:12
#2
15 Apr 2015, 09:12#2
We are so desperate for a decent 13 in this country, so I'd support a bid for Kriel to specialise in that position. He is probably a better at 15, but we have a massive problem at 13 that he could resolve for us.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 09:47
#3
15 Apr 2015, 09:47#3
 Bluebok
Just a reminder - Jacque Fourie started his career at full back and moved to center where he really made his name. 
I think that Kriel will be better at center than Fourie had been.    
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 10:27
#4
15 Apr 2015, 10:27#4

One certainty is that Kriel has to be included in the starting 15......I would start him on the wing......my backline would be:


15. Willie 14. JP 13. de Allende 12. Serfontein 11. Kriel 10. Pollard 9. Hougaard


With a bench of Reinach, Lambie and Odendaal  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 11:32
#5
15 Apr 2015, 11:32#5
 In general I have no problem - but JP on the wing is not the answer.   He will by some distance be the slowest player in the backline and for a wing that is not acceptable.
I think that the problem is that some people think that reputation without proven performance is a sound basis for player selection and that is on that basis they support the selection of players like Francois Steyn,  Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar and also JP.  However, none of them really meet any realistic performance requirements and their selection under such circumstances would be disastrous.
 Based on present performances I would to be quite frank rather play a player like Van Wyk ahead of Pietersen on the wing.       

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 12:05
#6
15 Apr 2015, 12:05#6

No JP is fine and would provide the bit of experience I need. JP is a class act being wasted at 13 at the Sharks.


There is a season or two left in JP


I am a big fan of v/Wyk but JP gets my vote based on providing some experience......as only Willie and Hougaard have plenty of test caps amongst my backline.


My forwards would be:


1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Willemse 5. Etzebeth 6. Coetzee 7. PSDT 8. Vermeulen.....with a bench of Strauss, Kitshoff, Marcel v/d Merwe, J. du Plessis and Carr.


By the RC my guess is that Arno Botha will have replaced Carr on my bench.

Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
15 Apr 2015, 12:09
#7
15 Apr 2015, 12:09#7
 @Saf
My only reservation having him on the wing is his pace.
Do you think he is quick enough for international standards on the wing?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 13:17
#8
15 Apr 2015, 13:17#8
 FD
JP was never a speed merchant - but every time he goes to Japan he comes back as a slower player than he used to be.  Last year was the same and so was this year.   If he remained in SA and kept himself in the  physical form he used to be - I would be the first one to put his name on the list as a wing.
The problem is that lack of pace has an impact on both his defense and attacking play and he was not the hottest in either of those two activities over the last year.      
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 13:19
#9
15 Apr 2015, 13:19#9

Am sure aged 28 he cant have lost too much pace....and he is more about power than pace......his selection is definitely open for change as I am not 100% convinced about him still.


Same applies to Beast at 1......Kitshoff is better and Nyakane would be good on the bench.


I stuck with Beast and JP to add experience......but some of the youngsters are in better form   

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 13:43
#10
15 Apr 2015, 13:43#10
 Dave
I would not have your forwards in my squad because your selections are not based on merit - but on personal preferences for players not always up to standard and in positions they have not played in.  Furthermore you refuse to recognise the fact that there are serious differences between the requirements for a lock and a loosie - even a blindisder.
My forward combination would be as follows:-
8  Duane Vermeulen, 7 Pieter Labuschagne, 6  Francois Louw, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2  Adriaan Strauss, 1 Tendai Mtawarire.   
My bench would be - 16 Armand van der Merwe, 17 Trevor Nyakane,  18  Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Heinrich Brussow.
Bismarck performance history over the last year became problematic and he is a danger to have on the field at present.  I think it is time to start looking for a successor.   Marcell is far from being a candidate for selection - his scrumming is questionable and not top class in any event.   Willemse is an unknown at present and if he really wanted to stake a serious claim to be selected  play for SA, he should have stayed in SA and wait with a European sojourn until after he has secured his place in the Springbok team.   Carr has gone backwards by leaps and bounds this year.   Arno Botha has played very little rugby over the past two years and he has a long way to go before he can qualify for selection.
I do not select players on likes and dislikes - proven performance is the only key - and proven top  performances can change the situation as I see it at present.             

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 14:58
#11
15 Apr 2015, 14:58#11
Mike stop speaking kak.....my pack is merit based and far better than yours
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 15:05
#12
15 Apr 2015, 15:05#12
 Daqve 
Balls and balls again.
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
15 Apr 2015, 15:32
#13
15 Apr 2015, 15:32#13
 Kriel is by far the best Bulls player this year. Without him, they probably would have lost another two home games.

He is much better than Wille le Roux at the moment and much more consistent too. I'd include him ahead of le Roux.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 15:38
#14
15 Apr 2015, 15:38#14

Louw ahead of Coetzee is an insult much like Labs ahead of a host of flankers......good player but too small for 7. 


Carr has been good this year as has Kolisi

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 17:17
#15
15 Apr 2015, 17:17#15
 Balls again from Dave.  A player of 1,92 and 108 kgs is too small to be a flank forward while a player of 1,90 and 103 kgs is big enough.   That is the kind of thing that Dave always gets wrong because he makes BS arguments to support the under-performing players he likes.
Carr and Kolis would not even make the starting line ups of the Stormers if all their players are matchfit - so are you kidding or not?
I select players on the basis of performance - nothing else. 

.    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 17:23
#16
15 Apr 2015, 17:23#16
The Trooth Fairy
Since you do not know anything about rugby - you probably did not understand that we need to use all talented players and it is no use to have a problem at 13 - which you can fill by using a talented player and not leave a problem at 13 and waste another talented player in the process.
But then this Fairy thinks that Morne Steyn is a good flyhalf - so say nothing more - one can understand where this bit of idiocy comes from.    


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
15 Apr 2015, 18:10
#17
15 Apr 2015, 18:10#17

Dom Mike which player are you on about that is 1.9m and 103kg......be prepared to get your arse kicked here again......but name this player.......and before you do......think carefully which position he plays


Good luck!!  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 18:28
#18
15 Apr 2015, 18:28#18
 Dave
Try Arno Botha for one.  All his stats were provided in 2013 when he was still playing.  There has not been any updated stats on the internet    I know you and Mozart previously tried to manufacture illusionary stats - but I prefer to stay with the official version.   By the way he looks smaller than he us ed to be.  Have fun.   
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
15 Apr 2015, 21:19
#19
15 Apr 2015, 21:19#19
" one can understand where this bit of idiocy comes from."

Wahahaha!!!

So, it's better to use the best of the two 15's out of position?!?!?! Plank!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Apr 2015, 21:26
#20
15 Apr 2015, 21:26#20
 Look Village idiot - Kriel was exceptionally good at 13 in the Junior World Cup and that position will fit him just as well as 15.  Who else dofdosie do you want to see at 13?  
Flashdakota
FlashdakotaClub Pro805 posts
15 Apr 2015, 23:04
#21
15 Apr 2015, 23:04#21
 @saffex, i wasnt referrign to JP's pace, i was referring to Kriels pace.
Do you think he'd be quick enough to be an international wing?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Apr 2015, 04:38
#22
16 Apr 2015, 04:38#22
FD
Kriel is much faster than JP and that is a fact.  However, as you see I do not favour Kriel for wing and Dave's whole approach is to have all his favourites in the Springbok team.  He does not mind juggling players around to reach that objective and their performances means nothing to him.
You just have to look at the fact that Hougaard is thriving on the wing - but has been ineffective as a scrummie last year during the EOYT as an example.  To my mind Serfontein was disappointing thus far this year - but he is a must on the basis that he makes line breaks and creates space for players outside of him - something absent from Serfontein for a long time.   Then the argument about Kolisi and Carr - despite the fact that they have been below par this year and only make appearances for the Stormers as a result of injuries to other players means nothing to him.
The same can be said for players like Marcel van der Merwe and Arno Botha - they have a long way to go before they can be considered as Springboks.     
I also favour a change in position in the case of Kriel - but only on the basis that he was exceptional when he played at 13 in the Under 20 WC last year.   He has all the requirements that will turn him into an exceptional future 13 for SA.      
  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Apr 2015, 11:36
#23
16 Apr 2015, 11:36#23
Ah yeah Kriel is really fast........so no issue with him on the wing  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Apr 2015, 11:44
#24
16 Apr 2015, 11:44#24

Mike if you think Arno Botha still weighs 103kg, the same weight he was as a Baby Bok then you need your eyes tested......the guy is muscled up to the hilt these days much like Coetzee is who went from 106kg to 112kg.


That Bulls site is a joke.......there are a number of incorrect weights on there.


Look no further than Adriaan Strauss weighing 97kg and Marcel v/d Merwe weighing 112kg

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Apr 2015, 12:26
#25
16 Apr 2015, 12:26#25
Where do you get the weights of Strauss and Van der Merwe from?  Wikipedia is normally very up-to-date with player data and they give Strauss's weight as 112 kgs and Van der Merwe's weight as 128 kgs.   However, they give Botha's weight as 103 kgs - like all other sites do.    
Whether he muscled up - he is still shorter than Labuschagne and even if he did he is unlikely to be 108 kgs.  Fact is after his return from injury he looks slimmer than he used to be.    
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Apr 2015, 12:36
#26
16 Apr 2015, 12:36#26
 I thought that this was about Jesse Kriel.............
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Apr 2015, 13:09
#27
16 Apr 2015, 13:09#27

Bullshit he is bigger than Labascagne.....the weights I got were from the Bulls site, which are rubbish.


One only needs to look at Arno to realise he is bigger than Labs.....who is more Whitely size.


Arno is muscled up, Labs is not.


Wikipedia is no more accurate than most sites  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Apr 2015, 14:16
#28
16 Apr 2015, 14:16#28
 Dave - with respect - you are indeed talking Sh!t in the case of Labuschagne and Botha.  There is no way that Labuschagne - a far better breakdown ball protector and recoverer than Botha and a far better tackler as well - is not muscled up, while Botha is.   
Fact is that the weights have been checked on numerous sites and Botha remains at 103 kgs on all sites - whether you like it or not.  The guy slimmed down during his injury period and in the match he played last week - he was decidedly slimmer than he used to be.   He vanished in maul situations and that is a fact.  He is no more muscled up than the 1,96 meter Hamro Liebenberg, who in fact weighs 103 kgs.
I know you like the guy from his junior years - but he ha s a long way to go before he can be rated as a potential Springbok again.      
   
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Apr 2015, 14:31
#29
16 Apr 2015, 14:31#29
 Our two esteemed friends have now both put their FACTS on the table but the FACT is that none of them has been able to prove a single FACT............ FACT.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
16 Apr 2015, 14:31
#30
16 Apr 2015, 14:31#30
 @Saf...
Mike still thinks he is 21!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Apr 2015, 14:46
#31
16 Apr 2015, 14:46#31

Mike is thick

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Apr 2015, 14:49
#32
16 Apr 2015, 14:49#32
 DomMike go and do a google image search of each player and come back and tell me Labs is bigger than Arno.......joke
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Apr 2015, 18:30
#33
16 Apr 2015, 18:30#33
 Labs is definitely a better and stronger player at 7 than Botha.   End of story. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Apr 2015, 19:48
#34
16 Apr 2015, 19:48#34
 Not a single little string of stats to prove your point, ou Maaikie?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
16 Apr 2015, 20:07
#35
16 Apr 2015, 20:07#35
 Arno is a pipe dream just like PSDT. That younger Liebenberg laaitie from Brackenfell, the younger boetie, now he might be something. ..but let's wait and see.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Apr 2015, 21:00
#36
16 Apr 2015, 21:00#36
 Methinks you have that one about Botha spot-on, Draad. I would be more than delighted if he overcomes his injuries but I am not so sure.
OM
Owen MeanyRookie57 posts
17 Apr 2015, 00:13
#37
17 Apr 2015, 00:13#37
 Botha sal nog n groot springbok word. Net soos Coenie. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Apr 2015, 00:17
#38
17 Apr 2015, 00:17#38
Nah Meany this guy is like Goosen, and Stephanie, they can't sip water without pulling a hammie. None of these three are destined for anything really. As for Liggies Labuschagne, he is another Mike long term pick like Jordan. Nice provincial players who for some inexplicable reason  have sounded the OOm's gong.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Apr 2015, 06:55
#39
17 Apr 2015, 06:55#39
 Mozart
Your picks normally relates to what people said in the past about potential performance based selections.  I have said nothing about Botha - other than tos ay that he has shown nothing for the past two years - possibly as a result of injury - and that he has to prove that he is worthy as a player to be selected.  
Then your standard BS about "Liggies"  -  Labuschagne is taller and stronger than Botha - he weighs at least 5 kilos more than Botha at this stage.   You are weird in your thinking that Labuschagne is "liggies" and the 105 kgs Matfield is not "liggies".
When has Du Toit or Goosen being off because they pulled a hamstring?   They had other injuries never hamstring injuries.  Has Matfield got a hamstring to be pulled? 
No Mozart - your long term picks are the jokes that cost the Springboks dearly in the past.  Players like the Steyns, Alberts, Matfield (since his return last year), Guthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha, etc. etc.  Every pick you made are invariably based  on the player reputations and age - never on actual present performances.           
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Apr 2015, 11:20
#40
17 Apr 2015, 11:20#40

Spot on Owen......Arno Botha is far better than Labs, who happens to be a good player


DomMike is just lying about Labs being stronger.......what a load of crap......as Vlag says, what exactly do you base that one old man?  

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