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The latest from Biltongbek

Started by Blikkies31 REPLIES793 VIEWS· 28 Jun 2015, 23:34
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BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
28 Jun 2015, 23:34
#1
28 Jun 2015, 23:34#1


By the time the 2011 Rugby World Cup came around Pieter de Villiers had all but given full control of the Springbok game plan and selections over to John Smit, Victor Matfield and Foure du Preez.

The decision of relinquishing that control to a senior group of players meant that Bismarck du Plessis, arguably the best hooker in world rugby, at the time had to warm the bench while John Smit hung onto his Springbok jersey regardless of his declining form.

In fact it was deemed that his leadership on the field was so important that Smit would insert himself into replacing Jannie du Plessis when the burly prop had nothing left in the tank.

South African rugby at the time had got stuck in a hole reminiscent of the Kimberly Mine, dug more than 120 years ago, and mimicking the downward spiral of the biggest hole of the era the Springboks’ chances to succeed at the 2011 Rugby World Cup failed miserably.

It is said that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, and the unwillingness and inability of the senior players to adapt their approach to modern rugby and their inability to adapt on the field of play meant the Springboks struggled past Wales and Samoa to end top of their group.

Their predictable play, inability to adapt, a prone David Pocock and a little help from Bryce Lawrence ensured an early exit from the 2011 showpiece.

Now four years later the question is have South African rugby progressed forward and has anything been added to improve their chances in the upcoming Rugby World Cup?

Bear in mind this is only an opinion piece and no Springbok was hurt in the writing of this.

Let’s first ask ourselves the question on whether South African rugby has truly evolved in the past four years, and more importantly, if any evolution has taken place will Heyneke Meyer employ these new tactics during a Rugby World Cup.

It is important to understand Meyer’s rugby philosophy, in fact it is not only Meyer’s philosophy but a philosophy held onto by nigh on every South African rugby coach bar Jimmy Stonehouse and Johan Ackerman.

It is a simple philosophy born out of conservatism that is innate to the DNA of most South Africans. Set piece, low risk, structured rugby and incredibly frustrating for many fans.

The problem with this approach to rugby is that you have to execute the set pieces well, you need dominance at the scrum and lineout, you need an accurate kicker, you need unbreakable defence and an accurate kicker. But most important you need disciplined players with little or no aspiration to be individual or maverick.

But what if the execution is not there, what if the defence opens up? Is it possible to consistently beat opponents intent on running the ball at you from every angle, opponents who shift the point of contact via offloads, side stepping their way through defences?

One only has to look at the poor showing of the supposedly top Super Rugby teams from the South African conference in the past two years to know the answer to those questions.

So onwards to Meyer, what has he brought to the table other than execution, execution and a couple of geriatrics?

Has he not learnt from 2011 that old dogs don’t learn new tricks and there comes a time in every player’s career where you have to accept that experience does not trump declining form?

You might suggest I am being pessimistic, but look beyond your first reaction and think about the following issues.

There is no new game plan, so when execution of the basic plan fails there is nothing else to fall back on. Although results have largely been on the right side of the ledger, the performances have been woefully inconsistent.

The players still allow niggles and trickery to befuddle them, they lose focus, become individualistic, predictable and fail to adapt.

The most experienced Springbok ever, Victor Matfield, got flummoxed by Ireland in November last year. I am at a complete lack of words as to how the most experienced Springbok got caught with the same trick again and again.

I can only believe his inability to adapt has something to do… well let me not be too harsh, we can’t all be geniuses.

There should be a major concern about the inclusion of Jean de Villiers, who in my view is being rushed back to fitness after his horrific injury against Wales in November. Especially considering that De Villiers’ form was in decline last year after a brilliant season in 2013, and he will be untested going into the World Cup.

Jaque Fourie has been courted, begged and promised eternal life to come back for the World Cup, but when last has he shown any commitment and form in the Springbok jersey?

Do Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez and Morne Steyn have compromising photos of Heyeneke Meyer or is there a lovefest going on beyond anything we could imagine?

Jannie du Plessis’ form has been deteriorating since 2012, and he doesn’t kick at goal, so why is he still there?

Granted Warren Whitely, Damien de Allende, Jaco Kriel, Jesse Kriel, Faf de Klerk, Vincent Koch, Burger Odendaal, Rudy Paige, Steven Kitshoff, Harold Vorster and Francois Venter may have little to no international experience, but these were the form players in the South African conference, and it is highly unlikely that any of them would make Meyer’s squad.

One issue I have not mentioned, and for a reason, is the contact area. The most important aspect of modern day rugby.

The contact area covers the offload in contact, the ability to free the arms in the tackle, the support of the ball carrier, and then ultimately the breakdown.

South African rugby players rarely if ever offload. In order to offload you have to be conscious of freeing your arms in contact, the habitual brace for contact where you clamp down on the ball, tense your shoulders to take the hit is not conducive to offloading skills.

In fact the opposite is required to offload, loose shoulders and arms, solid grip onto the ball and the ability to get your arms free of the tackle is vital to avoid the breakdown and shift the point of contact.

South African ball runners only know one pace when they have ball in hand, and that is full tilt. At full tilt you do not allow your support runners to run onto you. Compare that with the ball runners from the antipodes, they have a change of pace, they wait for their support runners, and more often than not have someone to offload too.

The other issue is that South African teams are wildly inconsistent in the manner in which they approach the ruck. It should really be a simple process. Firstly the ball carrier should ensure he has support runners at the contact area, if he has broken the line it might not always be possible, and that is where commitment from the trailing players are important.

Read the breakdown, if you are the first arrival and the opposition has hands on the ball, your job as first arrival is to clear the prone player, not go for the ball. If the ball is secured, remove any players that could threaten ball security, and in order to force a free flowing attack and maintaining momentum the next wave of attacking runners should be on the front foot waiting for the release from the halfback, not standing on their heels waiting for the halfback to direct traffic.

In summary, there are more questions than answers, more concerns than beliefs from this rugby supporter.

Are there any positives? Yeah sure there are, but they will all be playing Currie Cup back home while watching the geriatrics fail in another World Cup.

And the reason is simple, Meyer should have cleaned house when he started his four-year tenure, and stuck with the newbies, developed a free flowing game, rather than hanging on to a tired rugby philosophy and ageing players reminiscing of years gone by.


http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/06/28/springbok-rugby-2015-mirroring-2011/#comment-4109199

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
29 Jun 2015, 00:59
#2
29 Jun 2015, 00:59#2
Meyer has played a far more expansive game than many of the coaches in SA. In the last 2 years the Boks have scored lots of good tries. The EOYT was a disaster but it was another 2nd in the 4 nations- and were the only team to really challenge the All Blacks. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Jun 2015, 03:10
#3
29 Jun 2015, 03:10#3
Thus is another typically ignorant article. Firstly, Bismarck was never the better hooker. In 2011 Bismarck had a languid Super campaign where he was soundly outplayed by Chiliboy twice. Smit was in fact one of our better players that year, especially in the World Cup. As per limping through? The Boks were the form team of that WC alongside Wales. In fact we beat them despite having to field Butch at 12 for most the game and our other injury at lock. The Welsh gave us a hard time because of Butch at 12 and scored a crucial try that was well forward. It was a tough game and we prevailed. Samoa had their best campaign to date. They were powerful and systematically destroyed a full strength Wallaby side just before the tournament. We won another very tough top class test, and Smit was playing at a high level throughout. This deceptive journo failed to mention how the team had to be trained by Nienaber and Rassie that year. They restructured our defensive systems right after the Super rugby season and significantly bolstered the team. We nearly blanked NZ in our last TNs game! The big turning point was the loss of Brussow against Australia and having to replace an injured Frans with Jean. Even the SA media noted the difference Frans made at 12. As it was, that and crooked reffing cost us. 
Meyer has slowly developed the Boks and has allowed them to do expand their game as the foundations were built. In 2012 he had to completely rebuild the Bok pack and it was a task made all the more difficult because the juniors were not coping very well! The backs were playing a very limited game with a small repertoire of moves until the pack improved and up until the test Goosen started. Before that they were playing a similar game to Wales in some respects with a same way exhaust off 9 with our key ball carriers. There wasn't much more we could do and the backs were incorrectly criticised for not running wild when our pack was struggling for identity and consistency, providing slow untidy ball. In fact, our worst rugby was when we tried to fight fire with fire and NZ slaughtered us. Australia's injury nightmare in game saved our blushes as well as the more attacking game to support Goosens myth backfired for the most part. We did however go on a spree where only NZ could beat the Boks for 24 consecutive tests. The Boks dominated all and scored plenty of tries. Meyer has shown a good understanding of how to get a team playing a complete game, but the pseudo fans are still demanding the Viljoen and Peters 2008 model. A type of game no successful team has played. A game where they have never once acknowledged the importance of the centres or that we don't produce vehemence. 
This journo has failed to acknowledge that these 'geriatrics' have been the most productive members of the team. Why not point out the half backs that floundered last year? Of course no, that's part of the deception. No honesty is ever sought here. I suppose the fact that Damian had a nightmare against a physical Argentinian side or a nightmare against Kuridrani, Giteau, Cooper, AAC didn't matter either.  
This article is sickening to say the least. Doesn't have any integrity or honesty. Just another pseudo fan using his platform to infect the minds of those who don't know enough to see through the tripe. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2015, 04:26
#4
29 Jun 2015, 04:26#4
Frustrating. Select form youngsters....run the ball....lose. This article should be read from the perspective that Biltong gives us no chance in this RWC and consequently would rather sweep out the old and start rebuilding.

I'd rather play Speingbok rugby with players who can execute and worry about rebuilding after the WC.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2015, 05:39
#5
29 Jun 2015, 05:39#5
Biltongbek has summed up the situation absolutely correctly.  The nutcase always differ from logic.  So lets look at the comments:-
"Smit was in fact one of our better players that year, especially in the World Cup."
I went to France in 2007 for the WC - but when I saw the team selection after disastrous performances in 2010 and 2011 in the Tri-Nations - I decided that the team selection was absolute BS and that the Springboks had no chance of progressing in that tournament.  The main reason was the selection of players like Smit, Matfield and most of the way fact that way past their best players from the 2007 squad was selected by the senior players themselves for the WC.    Fat and overweight Smit was in fact one of the worst selections in 2011.    Bismarck was then best hooker at that stage in the World - but the stupid idiot Desert Disaster has no idea about rugby player evaluations. 
"And as per limping through? The Boks were the form team of that WC alongside Wales."   This is nuts - the Springboks ended up bottom of the 2011 Tri-Nations and Wales ended up 4th on the log in the 6-Nations that year - So the Springboks was together with Wales the form teams in the WC.   If ever there was a load of BS written by the nut-case on this sitte - that takes the cake.
The rest of the story about the 2011 WC is pure and unadulterated nonsense as well.  Fact is that the campaign was a disaster and the main reason for that was the geriatrics in the team showing zilch.   
Now for the following:-
"Meyer has slowly developed the Boks and has allowed them to do more as the foundations were built. In 2012 he had to completely rebuild the Bok pack and it was a task made all the more difficult because the juniors were not coping very well! The backs were playing a very limited game with a small repertoire of moves until the pack improved and up until the test Goosen started"

The above is crap of the worst order.  Meyer himself said he made the mistake in 2012 when he used players he was familiar with and the team became a revolving door for Bulls players.  Morne Steyn and Francois Steyn was disastrously poor and Meyer was ultimately forced to drop Morne because of a disastrous June test series and a piss-poor RC, while the fat and unfit Fransie got injured and was out of rugby for the remainder of the year.   Fransie was so fat and unfit - when on two occasions he had to make a relieving kick - he could not see his feet and the kicks rolled on the grass, placing his whole team off-side and causing points being scored by the opposing teams.   The two was the main reason for a near disaster against the Argentinians in Mendoza and losses against the Aussies and the AB's.   In the meantime his selections included the absolutely useless Greyling and Kruger as bench props - who were also disasters when they came on.   The RC campaign was a disaster.  Six played 2 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses ensured we ended up third on the log.   In the backline selections Meyer showed absolute cluelessness by his selections at 13 and the EOYT Meyer called up the useless Steenkamp and Van der Merwe for the EOYT.
2013 went slightly better result-wise and we managed to beat the Aussies - but still lost both tests to the AB's.   In both tests Morne was again a disaster and part of the reason for those two losses.  The other major contributor was Alberts - especially in the Ellis Park test.   Meyer went on with his programme to call back has-beens into the squad and the one that time was Bakkies Botha.   Botha was poor against the Scots and just slightly better against the French.    Botha soon realized that he is not good enough to play international rugby anymore and in 2014 did the honourable thing by retiring from international rugby before his reputation was destroyed as a result of poor performances.   Another back to the past selection was Fourie du Preez - good in the test against Australia and a week later anything but in the AB test in Ellis Park - in the EOYT good in the game against the Welsh and anything but the next week against the Scots.   Du Preez played 2 tests in June 2014 and because of obvious fitness deficiency produced very little and was injured in the second test - putting him out of rugby for the year.      
In 2014 Meyer did his normal  and rushed back to  Matfield - who has been a disaster - as he contributes zero to Tight 5 play.   His famed prowess in line-ous showed up well in his first two tests and the dwindled down in the RC and EOYT tests.    He showed serious physical deficiency and is at this stage a liability in the team turning the Tight 5 into a Tight 4.  He was useless in the AB tests and a disaster in the EOYT.
Instead of realizing that duds like the Steyns and has-beens like Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha and Matfield was taking the team backwards - Meyer persisted with them until the first two opted out voluntarily.  Despite the fact that Morne was only the Stade Francais starting flyhalf when Plisson was not available he persisted with the robotic and utterly predictable Steyn throughout 2013 and only dropped him after the Perth test disaster as a result of standard Morne poor play.   Morne, Fat frasie and Fatter Alberts are still in the recent squad - despite piss=poor performances.
Then the lies and drivel about De Allende and the praise-singing about De Jongh - standard fare from the village idiot.   What the idiot does not realize was that De Allende was the only 13 in 2014 capable of carrying balls and breaking the gain line repeatedly - while preventing a try by Bosch after a charge down kick of Morne Steyn.   Meantime not persisting with De Allende and bringing in the slow and attackless Fourie in the EOYT tests was one of Meyer's most short-sighted mistakes.   
So where are we now with Meyer - a denuded Tight 4 combination and a abckline without any stability.                     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2015, 05:46
#6
29 Jun 2015, 05:46#6
 Mozart
Your comments are typical - "I'd rather play Speingbok rugby with players who can execute and worry about rebuilding after the WC."
Problem is the players you claim can execute has been deficient over the past two years and the execution you see is confined to one or two incidents over the years.    The geriatrics like Jannie, Matfield and Alberts will never make a single test team in any of the top six rugby nations.   To persist with players like that based on reputation is a sure recipe for disaster.       
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jun 2015, 07:02
#7
29 Jun 2015, 07:02#7
 Good ol' BB, glad to read one of his articles!
He makes a good case for his line of reasoning. Interesting that some get so bent out of shape reading his views - what's that all about?
The fact is that most RWCs are won by a conservative game plan (heavy reliance of forward domination & good defence). Also, the top teams tend to select older more experienced players - even the ABs do this. So even if it frustrates fans this is the way it has been in most RWCs.
This does not mean that SA have all the answers. Even if this approach is the right one does SA have the players to execute it, is the coach likely to select the right players? 
Also, there is no guarantee that a team that selects younger players & uses a game plan that is open & exciting won't get lucky and win. If such a team gets ahead on the score board can the laboring oafs of old catch them up?
The Boks are in disarray right now as they struggle with these matters so no surprise that fans are frustrated. I think Meyer will go with selection of a core of older players but where he can he will put in some younger more exciting talent. He will primarily rely on the same ol' game plan but I think he is trying to broaden Bok rugby to include a plan B which includes having some decent backs that can run the ball & who have a chance to score some points - if necessary.
We will see how it all unfolds.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2015, 07:36
#8
29 Jun 2015, 07:36#8
 JW
There is one problem though and that is that no team has won the WC twice in succession.   The main reason for that is that the Cup-winning sides always followed the same trend - namely to make minimal changes to cup-winning sides.   That leads to ignoring of player deficiencies resulting from aging of players and minimal team renewal is more the rule than the exception.
The answer is a conservative playing style in the quarter, semi and final stage of the competition.   But then the players must be efficient in executing that playing style - which is unfortunately in too many cases not happening.    This happens in all sides who ever keep on using the same players after they have won the WC - and is also the case in New Zealand.
The problem in SA is that some people think that the players of the 2007 WC must be retained for the 2015 WC irrespective of whether their performance is up to standard.  There are no few players like Burger who is maintaining a reasonable performance record - even though he is considerably weaker than he was in 2007.    For the rest we have to keep up with the non-performers favoured by Meyer.   
However, it is not clear what Meyer intends to do - even though early signs are not encouraging.    We may see more of that plan in the RC - but at this stage nobody really is confident that the situation will improve - hence the negativity on this site.                
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jun 2015, 07:51
#9
29 Jun 2015, 07:51#9
 CleverMike: winning the RWC twice in a row is very difficult because it is a tournament with a lot left to chance. 
There is so much pressure that younger players are considered a bit of a risk so coaches go with older, "more mature" and experienced players. Some end up being over the hill. ABs are trying to bring back Carter, Woodc*ock is held together with prayers as is Mealamu, Cory Jane, Dagg and a few others. There are no guarantees whichever way a coach decides to go. Hence our raging debates
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2015, 09:46
#10
29 Jun 2015, 09:46#10
 JW
The problem remains - do players over the age of 30 retain there performance levels thy used to maintain as younger players?   De Villiers said last year that he needs to train twice as hard to maintain fitness and performance levels as he did at the age of 29.
Even with that rigorous training programme he was inadequate in 2014 compared to 2013.   In essense th genral opinion is that there is decline in performances that increases as players gets older after reaching the age of 30 and that decline is noticeable in all players.   The coaches tends to ignore it - that being one of the  reasons in the case of the discussions on this site.   
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
29 Jun 2015, 13:37
#11
29 Jun 2015, 13:37#11
 The off load thing is second nature to many Aussies and Kiwis because of exposure to Rugby League ,the ABS arent afraid to draft in some outside help from other codes when needed.Heck the ABS have even used Aussie Rules players to pass on  skills needed to shore up our game under the high ball after 2009 ,also used them to help with the correct hang time after restarts and kicking to hand .This of course would have the same sffect on a saffa coach as a handful of LSD ! Their heads would explode like that scanners movie hehehe...
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
29 Jun 2015, 13:42
#12
29 Jun 2015, 13:42#12
BiltongBek , aka BiltongTripe writes some real garbage. If it was so easy as dropping any old player- for a better younger player it would all be so easy. 
The problem is that some of the older players are past their best-but this is still better than what their direct younger placements can offer. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Jun 2015, 13:46
#13
29 Jun 2015, 13:46#13
Just_Win, you clearly don't know Bok rugby very well. This oaf has gotten just about everything he said wrong. And I suspect he is one of those idiots who is just about bright enough to know he is being dishonest.

"The off load thing is second nature to many Aussies and Kiwis because of exposure to Rugby League ,the ABS arent afraid to draft in some outside help from other codes when needed."

Our players have been offloading more than they ever have. Our backs have good skills across the board, but the problem is that we are lacking great players who own their position. The biggest difference between SA and NZ is not offloading, it' the use of the forwards. New Zealand use their forwards up to 60% more as runners who link up with backs. That's where offloading becomes more dangerous when you have wave after wave of support in at least two layers. As much as I don't rate McCaw at the breakdown in an even game, he is exceptional at this. So too their locks. Thorne was another. The Cheetahs adopted this model for years, using mobile forwards with good hands. The Lions more recently have been playing that way too, out of necessity. Ironic though, the Stormers have a lot of skills in their backline, but don't have the hard runner to straighten their attack. Lots of offloading, lots of beaten defenders and breaks... but it doesn't amount to very much if you are doing it laterally, as Australia have been doing for an age.

When all is said and done, Biltongbek is another imbecile who clearly got his job because he knows somebody. It's the way it works in good 'ol SA.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jun 2015, 15:05
#14
29 Jun 2015, 15:05#14

Great read.....and spot on......conservatism rules under Meyer......pathetic selections like Matfield, Kirchner, Morne, Heinke v/d Merwe, Brits, Fourie and the likes are evidence of this.


This twit is hell bent on sticking with the old, with washed up hasbeens who know the Bok structures and he has simply ignored the form players bar Jessie Kriel, de Allende, Jantjies, Faf, Kitshoff and Malherbe........it ends there.


Under conservative Meyer we have no hope in hell of progressing beyond the WC quarters.


We are just going to have to grin and bear the disappointment under this ignorant fool and hopefully see the back of him post the WC.  

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Jun 2015, 15:12
#15
29 Jun 2015, 15:12#15
 Conservatism? I suppose nearly 10 outside centres, 6 flyhalves, 7 scrumhalves, many combinations at lock and flank are conservative? How about the fact that he went youth before be brought back age? How about striking a nice balance though and scoring tries? But you were one of those that bitterly dismissed the successes and claimed our wins and tries were moral loses. Especially as you had to eat mountains of egg after stating we'd never score tries with Morné!!! LMAO! You were also the one who gave Lambie and Reinach a pass on the EOYT and flat dismissed video evidence that you were wrong. And do note that Damian is not an unknown quantity at test level. He had three tests where he was humiliated on defence. I didn't rate him the worst of our outside centres but looked at the stats and the projection was that he was on course to beat JJ for the accolade of worst defensive 13 under Meyer. Meyer is too intelligent for you Dave. But then you struggle with defensive assignments . Barnacle gave it to you good! LMAO. But yes, Meyer is an obvious fool. It's so easy to field an inexperienced team and let them feel their way to breaking down defences.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Jun 2015, 15:47
#16
29 Jun 2015, 15:47#16
 Desert Disaster 
Again the same refrain Meyer's problem is the youth were not performing because he constantly selected the duds - mostly from the Bulls.    When that went haywire he went for the aged players who were worse duds than the younger ones were.   The record with Matfield showed a serious collapse in performances - Matfield destroyed the Springbok Tight 5 all on his own.  We played 9 tests against top-ranked countries last year and managed to win only 5 of those.  The losses were against the AB's, Aussies (with the active help of Morne), the Irish and the Welsh.  
Then back to the robot at 10 - the famous clueless useless Morne Steyn.   And Se Allende humiliated in defense - this from the joker who rate Fransie and De Jongh  as better defenders than  De Allende.   Nobody will ever beat Fransie and De Jongh in defense  deficiency.
Who have been the worst defender the past three years in the Springbok baqckline?   Morne Steyn by a mile.  
          
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Jun 2015, 15:58
#17
29 Jun 2015, 15:58#17
Damn you lot can regurgitate the same crap over and over again! It is not about old vs young! It is about balance. Successful world cup winning teams are those that get the balance between the two right! There is a grey area where experience can trump youth and form. For example, Bizmark was already a better hooker than Smit in 2007, but the value Smit brought in his leadership surpassed the fact that he was not as good a player. A great coach is able to gauge these subtle factors when putting together a team. So if Meyer gets it right, the following will happen, the team will include some young exciting players, that a certain section of the supporters will say are too green, and older more experienced players, that other supporters will say are past their best. Winning teams have the following;
The correct balance between young and old + the correct team strategy for any given game + talented players + great defense.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:01
#18
29 Jun 2015, 16:01#18
Actually Bismarck not fantastic in 2007. He conceded many penalties that contributed to our loss in NZ. He has been hovering around average. Between 2008-2011 he was routinely in  the top 3 for penalties and turnovers conceded. He got a little bit better in 2013, had a very good opening 10 minutes in NZ, but eventually ruined our entire campaign. He just isn't the player everyone claims him to be. He has never been the best in SA, never been the best in the world. It's all a delusion.

The problem is that these "young and exciting" players simply are not holding their own at test level. Meyer has in every instance gone for youth first and it has nearly always blown up in his face. But the fans do not want to acknowledge this, they want new faces simply because they want new faces. The right balance of age doesn't equate to right balance of talent or production.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:08
#19
29 Jun 2015, 16:08#19
"he eventually ruined our entire campaign..." Please tell me you are not serious? Carter himself said it was a legitimate tackle. In fact, there was nothing wrong with it at all! He may have cost the Boks the campaign, but it was not his fault because he should never have been carded in the first place, which would have negated the second yellow resulting in a red. Never mind that is completely besides the point. I used Bizmark as an example to illustrate my point. I am certainly not singing his praises and have often called for Strauss to be ahead of him in the pecking order. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:11
#20
29 Jun 2015, 16:11#20
I wonder why BB left the forum, there could be a clue on this thread
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:17
#21
29 Jun 2015, 16:17#21
Bluebok, he was sent off because he elbowed the face of a NZer. He wasn't even that good once he came back on from the earlier yellow, and was completely invisible in the rematch at Ellis Park. It was supposed to be his chance to even the score. He ruined our campaign by being typically reckless and dumb . He always does stupid things because he cannot control himself.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:26
#22
29 Jun 2015, 16:26#22
No you dimwit......the selection of Kirchner, Mvovo, Habana, Fourie, Jean, Morne, du Preez, Pienaar, Jannie, Heinke v/d Merwe, Brits, Matfield, Louw and Alberts in the current squad smacks of pathetic conservatism.......much like the pathetically conservative game plan this dumb coach employs.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:28
#23
29 Jun 2015, 16:28#23
The elbow was stupid, but that should have been the first yellow. Again, you have missed what I am saying...I am merely using Bizmarck/Smit to illustrate a point. I am sorry if it is confusing! 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:42
#24
29 Jun 2015, 16:42#24
@Just_win
The reason Biltonbek left this forum was because he could not handle his "factual opinions" being challenged. 
Another self proclaimed expert who was anti-anything that anyone else said. It was just about him pushing his own opinion down anyone elses throat. 
He prefers that other website which does not allow comments
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
29 Jun 2015, 16:51
#25
29 Jun 2015, 16:51#25
 My perception was he wasn't used to the "banter" between posters - not always directed at him. The Roar is a much more polite forum & the posters there often have more technical rugby discussions. They don't have the variety of characters we have.  Each to his own I guess. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Jun 2015, 21:12
#26
29 Jun 2015, 21:12#26
 I noted when it was happening that Bissie was getting a raw deal. Then it was Jannies turn and wee victor clung onto his bok spot with PDV thanks to these guys running the show. All very self serving stuuf. I remember being lambasted for such comments by a few ignorant types.
I am also of the opinion that Meyer wasted at least last year. We can play a balanced game running off decent ball and historically always have. Like Biltongbek I fear Meyer has lost the plot and will send the geriatrics in to win the RWC. 
The only hope we have is that it hasnt quite happened yet but the signs are ominous.
Biltongbek had a glass jaw dispite his many favourable qualities. he would not survive on 95% of rugby websites
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Jun 2015, 22:09
#27
29 Jun 2015, 22:09#27

Great read? Giving up on the WC is now a laudable approach that defines the fibre of the South African nation?

 

If I was HM I'd take a page from the Jake White book.....before the 2007 RWC he was subject to exactly this rubbish. He told them where to put it and selected a side to get the job done....and they never forgave him for winning, those twisted losers. But I doubt he loses much sleep over it.

 

Choose the team you think will win HM .... you will be way more correct than your critics.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
29 Jun 2015, 23:59
#28
29 Jun 2015, 23:59#28
 This was the main part that did not make any sense.
BiltongBek- "Granted Warren Whitely, Damien de Allende, Jaco Kriel,Jesse Kriel, Faf  de Klerk, Vincent Koch, Burger Odendaal, Rudy Paige, Steven Kitshoff, Harold Vorster and Francois Venter may have little to no international experience, but these were the form players in the South African conference, and it is highly unlikely that any of them would make Meyer’s squad".
-----------Of the 11 players that were highly unlikely to be in the squad- their is 7 out of the 11 that are in the Bok Squad. Francois Venter was hardly in form- he had a few decent mataches.Harold Voster at least needs another year- and improved form to get a call up. Burger Odendaal is not a first choice player at his own union. Yes he has potential- but it is Springbok caps here that are being handed out- not Candi-floss. To get a Bok Call up - needs to be earnt. Why the Bulls persist with JJ at centre and not bring in Odendaal is hopeless. 
Jaco Kriel of course does deserve a call up - and it is the only real travesty. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:25
#29
30 Jun 2015, 00:25#29
 Sharkbok
I agree with what you wrote above - but then some of the selections Meyer left out is in a way logical.   I think that Vorster was by some distance the best performing of the SA 13's in Super 15 this year.   However - every reasonable person would like to give this youngster another year to prove his abilities.   However, the BS performers Meyer did include in his squad for potential selection at 13 is alarming.   If De Villiers is not available I think the solution would b to bring in Vorster into the squad - since the joke selections (JP, Jacque Fourie and even Serfontein) are so alarmingly questionable.          
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:33
#30
30 Jun 2015, 00:33#30
@clevermike- Number 13 is a weak spot at the moment. 
Their is a few good inside centres- but lots of past it players for outside Centre like Jean, Jaque Fourie and JP. Vorster needs another season. Their is just not enough time to blood him for the World Cup. 
Knowing Meyer- even a 70% Jean will be starting. Delande needs to be used as a battering ram that can also offload. 
Given that Jean has combined with both Delande and Fourie, these are most likely the 3 players Meyer is going to turn to. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Jun 2015, 00:45
#31
30 Jun 2015, 00:45#31
 Sharkbok
That is very true - but it gives me a nightmare even to think of the center situation.  I have a feeling De Villiers - gentleman he is - is going to opt out of selection.  Fourie was totally non-productive in 2013 and two years later there is no chance that he would have improved.   He would definitely been even slower than he was in 2013.  That is unfortunately the situation we are in.
It is  clear from latest reports that neither Fourie nor Du Preez is going to play in the RC and without a chance to evaluate their present performances going into the WC with those two players would be a massive gamble.  I would rather have a functional inexperienced youngster in the team than a fumbling useless 33 year-old.      

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
30 Jun 2015, 02:43
#32
30 Jun 2015, 02:43#32
Dupreez I think it a key player even though he is past his best. At least he knows what the best options are. That he is not available in the 4 nations is problematic. If Jaque Fourie is not available he should be dropped form the squad. Really they should both be playing 4 nations to prove or dissprove they are still worthwhile. 
— END OF THREAD —

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