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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Likely Bok RWC squad. Take a tranquiliser before reading

The Likely Bok RWC squad. Take a tranquiliser before reading

Started by Beeno118 REPLIES1,282 VIEWS· 27 Aug 2015, 18:59
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Aug 2015, 18:59
#1
27 Aug 2015, 18:59#1
Ex Supersport
Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer will place his trust in a number of experienced players as he gready to name his 31-man squad to go to the Rugby World Cup on Friday.

While it would have always been difficult to fit the amount of talent currently at the Springbok camp into the 31 names that will be read out tonight, Meyer will go for the tried and trusted approach, rewarding stalwarts such as Duane Vermeulen, Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner, Fourie du Preez and Victor Matfield with call-ups for the squad despite some of them having limited game time in recent times.

The real talking point after the announcement however is likely to be who didn’t make the 31 man squad, as some prominent players who were involved in the recent Castle Lager Rugby Championship are among those set to return to their provinces for the rest of the Absa Currie Cup tournament.

Among these are Springboks Heinrich Brussow, Marcell Coetzee, Jan Serfontein, Elton Jantjies, Lionel Mapoe and Vincent Koch.

Players began being called into one-on-ones by the coaching staff on Wednesday night to be told if they made the squad or not, with those who didn’t make the cut leaving the hotel by lunchtime on Thursday.

Thursday night saw those who made the final 31 being kitted out with their World Cup kit and being briefed on the announcement which will take place live on SuperSport Friday at 6pm.

Some of the selections may well seem controversial, but Meyer is also set to name 8 players of colour in the squad as opposed to the 7 that were named in the previous squad in 2011 by then coach Peter de Villiers.

In the end some may well be surprised by the inclusion of the likes of Rudy Paige, who hasn’t played in the Rugby Championship, but got the nod ahead of Cobus Reinach, who was Meyer’s preferred back up for Ruan Pienaar.

Both Vincent Koch and Steven Kitshoff are likely to miss out in selection to the versatility of Coenie Oosthuizen, as the Boks decided on five props rather than four.

With Tendai Mtawarira and Trevor Nyakane likely to take the two loosehead spots, Jannie du Plessis is assured of the one tighthead spot, with Frans Malherbe next in the queue. The decision is likely to come down to either Marcel van der Merwe, Kitshoff, Koch or Oosthuizen, with the latter offering a more versatile approach.

At hooker, Scarra Ntubeni is back with Western Province and his fitness problems mean the three hookers at the camp – Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss and Schalk Britz are likely to be chosen in the 30 man squad.

The locks are also a close call – with Eben Etzebeth, Matfield and Lood de Jager all certainties while the final decision between Flip van der Merwe and Pieter-Steph du Toit coming again down to versatility with the latter able to play flank as well.

The most difficult call is likely to be the loose forwards, with Vermeulen, Willem Alberts and Francois Louw all certainties alongside with Schalk Burger. This leaves just one place open to choose between Siya Kolisi, Coetzee, Brussow and Oupa Mohoje, with Kolisi likely to win the vote.

The second most contested position is in the midfield where a final decision still needs to be taken on Jean de Villiers, who has overcome a knee injury but is still sitting with a broken jaw that needs to heal.

If De Villiers goes, then there are only two spots open, both set to be taken by the midfield of Damian de Allende and Jesse Kriel, both who have excelled this past international season.

At flyhalf Morne Steyn is likely to come into the mix alongside Pat Lambie and Handre Pollard, primarily for his match-winning ability. Elton Jantjies will be unlucky to miss out, especially after a great Super Rugby season but after being ignored throughout the Rugby Championship this isn’t really a surprise.

Paige will be the third halfback alongside Fourie du Preez and Ruan Pienaar while JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo and Bryan Habana will be the wings with Cornal Hendricks missing out on selection.

Zane Kirchner’s versatility in being able to play wing, centre and fullback, as well as his recent performance against Argentina will instill him alongside Willie le Roux as the two fullbacks for the trip.

Likely RWC Squad

Fullbacks: Willie le Roux, Zane Kirchner

Wings: Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo

Centres: Jean de Villiers (capt), Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel.

Flyhalves: Pat Lambie, Handre Pollard, Morne Steyn

Scrumhalves: Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Rudy Paige

Loose forwards: Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi

Locks: Victor Matfield, Eben Etzebeth, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Lood de Jager

Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Schalk Britz

Props: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Aug 2015, 19:05
#2
27 Aug 2015, 19:05#2
 Nick Mallets selection:

Forwards: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Steven Kitshoff, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Scarra Ntubeni, Victor Matfield, Eben Etzebeth, Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi/Oupa Mohoje

Backs: Fourie du Preez, Cobus Reinach, Faf de Klerk, Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie, Elton Jantjies, Jean de Villiers (captain), Damian de Allende, Jan Serfontein, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo, Willie le Roux



Crazy stuff wherever one looks.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Aug 2015, 19:30
#3
27 Aug 2015, 19:30#3
 Why Sa is doomed. Hereare the factors affecting the selection of quota players. PDV has been launching racial attacks on Meyer. Meyer will respond by picking on colour. How sick is all this.ex Sport

Cape Town – Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer seems poised to slightly eclipse his predecessor Peter de Villiers, recently vocal on transformation-related issues, for selection of black players to his RWC 2015 squad.

The incumbent, Sport24 has reliably learnt, will almost certainly include nine players of colour in his 31-strong party to be named on Friday evening in Durban.

That will take him to just about the 30 percent “target” he has apparently been set in order to fulfil transformation requirements for the Bok onslaught on the global event.

It is believed those players will be props Trevor Nyakane and Tendai Mtawarira, loose forward Siya Kolisi, wings Bryan Habana, Lwazi Mvovo and JP Pietersen, centre Damian de Allende, fullback Zane Kirchner and scrumhalf Rudy Paige.

The last-named player will be the only uncapped Bok in the party, and something of a surprise pick as he will nudge out the expected third-choice (after Fourie du Preez and Ruan Pienaar) at No 9, Cobus Reinach of the Sharks.

But Bulls halfback Paige, 26, has been part of the broad Bok training group in recent weeks and is a decent tactical player – the nippy Reinach is more mercurial in his playing style -- who excelled during Super Rugby earlier this year.

De Allende was the focus of a slightly distasteful hullabaloo in Afrikaans newspaper Rapport recently, when his father insisted they were white but Tony Ehrenreich, Western Cape secretary of Cosatu, reportedly altered an earlier view to pronounce: “He is coloured, one of our people.”

Sport24 understands that the promising Stormers-based midfielder is considered a player of colour for SARU purposes, as things stand.

Under such circumstances, and if our forecast proves correct as anticipated, Meyer will beat by one the tally of black players De Villiers picked (eight) for his assault on RWC 2011, which was also his swansong event as national coach. The Boks bowed out at the quarter-finals.

De Villiers, the Boks’ first coach of colour, was criticised from various sectors at the time: one lobby suggested he kept too much faith in stalwarts who had won the cup under Jake White’s tenure in 2007, whilst another lamented that he could have done more in pursuing wider selection of players of colour.

His black players in 2011 were: Habana, Pietersen, Gio Aplon, Juan de Jongh, Odwa Ndungane, Mtawarira, Gurthro Steenkamp and Chiliboy Ralepelle.

Not only is Meyer very likely to go one player more on the transformation front in his Friday announcement, but he and his co-selectors will also be hiking the tally of black African representation from three in 2011 to four this time – Zimbabwe-born Mtawarira, plus Nyakane, Kolisi and Mvovo.

If that is the case, some irony will be detected by certain observers: De Villiers has recently castigated Meyer for alleged preference to white players.

When the incumbent omitted Cornal Hendricks (believed not to be going to the World Cup) for the Durban Test against Argentina in order to switch Jesse Kriel from outside centre to right wing, De Villiers accused Meyer of “taking the country back to the late Eighties”.

De Villiers was reportedly guest speaker in Mossel Bay recently where a new movement was formed to push for more vigorous transformation in rugby, and a Bok jersey was burned.

SARU has a five-year transformation plan, begun last year, in place to try to ensure 50 percent black representation in the national side by 2019, so there is probably still going to be a 20 percent shortfall in terms of that quest when the Boks go into RWC 2015.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Aug 2015, 19:34
#4
27 Aug 2015, 19:34#4
The best Bok team will in any event be severely handicapped by the presence of matfiled. The back up side will include a number of quotas. 
Guys sad to say it but find another sport to support as the future looks bleak in sport - and economically for similar reasons.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Aug 2015, 20:45
#5
27 Aug 2015, 20:45#5
 Fullbacks: Willie le Roux, Zane Kirchner

Wings: Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo

Centres: Jean de Villiers (capt), Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel.

Flyhalves: Pat Lambie, Handre Pollard, Morne Steyn

Scrumhalves: Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Rudy Paige

Loose forwards: Duane Vermeulen, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Schalk Burger, Siya Kolisi

Locks: Victor Matfield, Eben Etzebeth, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Lood de Jager

Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Schalk Britz

Props: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Jannie du Plessis, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen.

Lets look at the flops and expected flops from the above squad:

Zane Kirchner. JP Pietersen, Jean de Villiers, Morne Steyn. Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Rudy Paige, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Victor Matfield.

*    The "Hospital Ward cases" - De Villiers, Du Preez, Alberts

*    The geriatrics - Kirchner, De Villiers, Steyn, Du Preez, Pienaar, Alberts, Matfield

*    The real poor -  Kirchner, Pietersen. Steyn, Pienaar, Alberts

*    The BEE players - Kirchner, Pietersen, Paige, Kolisi   

Can we get anywhere with thats quad - which is regarded as having over the hill players get us anywhere in the tournament  and the answer is NO - we are indeed buggered.    


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Aug 2015, 21:19
#6
27 Aug 2015, 21:19#6
 Mike you could pick a strong team if matfiled is left out. However you cant play the best players all the time. You need 31 quality players. We refuse to pick our best for various reasons.Makes life very difficult
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Aug 2015, 21:40
#7
27 Aug 2015, 21:40#7
 Coenie is injured so how can he be included
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
27 Aug 2015, 22:33
#8
27 Aug 2015, 22:33#8
Let us hold thumbs that Duane will be declared fit for the WC because I saw a few usually reliable commentators who said yesterday that Duane will not be ready for the WC. If that is the case, it is bye-bye WC for the Boks. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Aug 2015, 22:53
#9
27 Aug 2015, 22:53#9
Its bye-bye WC for the Boks regardless of Vermeulen....the proposed squad above is pathetic
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Aug 2015, 23:19
#10
27 Aug 2015, 23:19#10

I wish Flip Flop was there rather than Stephanie. I have never, ever been a Kirchner fan. I think Paige may not be a better rugby player than Reinach, but he is a better scrumhalf. For the rest it's about what I would pick barring obvious quota selections like Kolisi....hardly HM's fault.

 

Gone are the toothless youth brigade ...JJ, Step, Reinach, Coetzee...Stephanie (oops no) my guess is he is really going as an Alberts understudy.

 

Who has been left out who could really make a difference to winning the WC. I cant think of one player and I challenge the critics to produce one.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
27 Aug 2015, 23:19
#11
27 Aug 2015, 23:19#11
 Politiek 'Los die ras-toets!’

De Allende is wit, sê sy pa. Wat moet tel, is hoe hy rugby speel

Deur Suzanne Venter Sondag 16 Augustus 2015 05:00

Wat Tony sê, is nonsens. Hy moet seker maak van sy feite.

Die herrie rondom die getal swart en bruin spelers in die Springbokspan het gister in ’n klug ontaard toe Tony Ehrenreich van Cosatu die tweede keer in ’n week gedwing is om sy eie rasklassifikasie van ’n Springbokrugbyspeler te verander.

Ehrenreich, wat eers gemeen het die Boksenter Damian de Allende is wit, maar later gesê het hy is ’n “kleurling, een van ons mense”, het gister wéér sy deuntjie verander nadat die De ­Allende-familie gesê het hulle weet nie waar Ehrenreich aan die storie kom dat hulle bruin is nie.

Ehrenreich, die Wes-Kaapse sekretaris van Cosatu en prominente ANC- stadsraadslid van Kaapstad, het die afgelope Maandag die rugbywêreld op hol gehad met sy bewering dat swart Springbokke (gesteun deur twee wit spelers) by ­Cosatu kom kla het dat hulle nie speelkans in Heyneke Meyer se Bokspan kry nie.

Hy het ook te velde getrek teen die feit dat daar net twee swart spelers – Bryan Habana en Tendai ­Mtawarira – in verlede Saterdag se beginspan teen Argentinië was.

Later in die week het hy sy deuntjie aangepas en gesê hy het nie geweet dat die WP-senter Damian de Allende, wat ook in die beginspan was, ’n bruin pa het nie.

In ’n onderhoud Woensdagaand met Rapport se Eduan Roos het Ehrenreich vir De Allende om verskoning gevra vir die blaps nadat hy “die vorige aand” uitgevind het sy pa is bruin.

“Ons sien hom nou as ’n kleurling. Hy is een van ons mense,” het Ehrenreich gesê. (Lees die volledige onderhoud op bl.?3 van Weekliks.)

Hieroor is die De Allende-familie baie geamuseer. Damian se pa, Tony de Allende, wat van Spaanse afkoms is, sê hulle het hulle nog nooit as bruin gesien nie. Hulle is wit.

“Wat Tony sê, is nonsens. Hy moet gaan seker maak van sy feite. Hy sal enigiets sê om aandag te trek.

“Wat maak dit saak of Damian wit of bruin is?” wou De Allende sr. weet.

“Hierdie kwessie kom nou al jare. Ek en my eksvrou, Beverly, Da­mian se ma, ignoreer dit net altyd. Ons gee regtig nie om nie. Al wat vir ons belangrik is, is dat Damian goed rugby speel.”

Beverly de Allende wou nie kommentaar lewer oor die kwessie nie.

“Damian is een van my twee seuns waarvoor ek baie lief is. En hy is gekies om die no.?12-trui te dra omdat hy goed is,” is al wat sy wou sê.

De Allende sr., wat tot sy aftrede by Telkom gewerk het, sê die stories dat hy kwansuis bruin sou wees, is ironies omdat hy as wit Telkom-werker nooit vir bevordering in aanmerking gekom het nie as gevolg van sy ras.

“Almal gaan tekere oor transformasie in Suid-Afrikaanse rugby. Maar dit gaan tyd vat,” sê De Allende sr.

Ehrenreich het gister woedend ge­reageer toe hy op sy blaps gewys is. Hy beweer ’n “senior Saru-lid” het aan hom gesê dat De Allende ’n bruin pa het en dat dit hom “tegnies gekleurd” maak. “Ek weet nie van enige wit persoon wat eerder bruin sal wil wees nie,” het hy gesê en die foon doodgedruk.

Hy het die gesprek kort daarna opgevolg met ’n SMS waarin hy Rapport daarvan beskuldig dat die koerant die “wit saak” probeer bevorder.

“Dit is nie ’n saak oor Damien (sic) se genetika nie. Dis is ’n saak van die uitsluiting van beter swart spelers.”

Frans Cronjé van die Instituut vir Rasseverhoudinge sê Ehrenreich se verknorsing illustreer die probleem van dié soort rasse-speletjie. Hy sê daar is geen definisie van ras in die Grondwet of enige ander wet nie en dat mense behoort tot die rasgroep wat hulle of hul familie verkies.

“Ons het aanbeweeg van die potloodtoets en breedte van mense se neuse. Ek sou hoop dat die meerderheid van die land se mense nooit na daardie tyd toe wil terugbeweeg nie.”

Mmusi Maimane, leier van die DA, het gister gesê hy wil nie oor die kwessie kommentaar lewer nie omdat hy “geen begeerte het om by ’n potloodtoets betrokke te raak nie”.

Solly Malatsi, DA-woordvoerder oor sport, sê al wat belangrik is, is of Damian ’n goeie rugbyspeler is. 

??Lees wat ?Rapport sê.



Definitely yet another only in SA story .

Unbelievable & embarrassing .

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Aug 2015, 23:27
#12
27 Aug 2015, 23:27#12
Geez Moz so what are you going to be telling us when we exit the WC early thanks to the inclusions of Kirchner, Mvovo, Jean, Morne, Pienaar, du Preez, Jannie, Brits, Matfield, Louw, Schalk and Alberts
Players that would improve our chances are endless.....starting with Senatla, v/Wyk, Serfontein, Odendaal, Jantjies, Goosen, Faf, Hougaard, Kitshoff, Marcel, Koch, Willemse, Jacques du Plessis, Coetzee, Jaco Kriel, Brussouw, CJ Stander, Carr and Arno Botha
All twice the players the useless the top group have to offer
Meyer squad is an insult and anyone who thinks differently is rugby ignorant
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Aug 2015, 23:59
#13
27 Aug 2015, 23:59#13

No they wouldn't.

 

Senatla....defensive weakness

van Wyk....why?

Step....toothless

Odendaal....I like, but not ready for RWC pressure.

Jantjies....choker

Goosen...third choice for his French club

Faf....boot failed at the end of the S15

Hougaard....too many flops at 9 to go down that road again

Kitshoff....sure, but Nyakane has credentials HM couldn't refuse

Koch....horribly exposed by Ayerza and in the S15

marcel...the belly scrummager, no thanks

Willemse....yes, I agree

Jacques du Plessis...neither fish, nor fowl.

Coetzee...has no role ex cept to be busy, not really a test class loosie

Kriel...maybe, but only in very open games, how many WC knockout games are open?

CJ Stander....nobody else seems to agree, I can't remember what he looks like

Carr....horribly dominated by the Brumbies

Arno Botha....was once a good prospect.

 

Nope there isn't one player except for Willemse who would be in my WC thinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Aug 2015, 01:58
#14
28 Aug 2015, 01:58#14
 Hugh Bladen is 100% correct and that is what Mozart and his confreres do not realise.   He said when discussing the squad on television that virtually all the experienced players are long in the tooth and over the hill which would cause our early exit from the WC.   The younger players are inexperienced and did not get enough opportunities to gain experience before being selected to play in the WC.
Mozart talks about exposure in matches - but who was exposed most in the 2011 WC when we was out in the quarterfinal stage?  Virtually all the experienced players that was then already over the hill and is even worse now.   
But the real problem is going to surface once we are out of the WC.  Who will he blame then for the early departure?  The answer will be clear - he will blame the younger players, not the passengers Meyer is carting along.   
The inevitable early departure will be that there are too many players on reputation without any proof that they are still up to standard.   There are players like Alberts who did not have a decent match performance for years, Du Preez who did not play in a single competitive rugby game for more than 14 months, Pienaar who was slow and iffy in the tests he played in this year, Morne Steyn who flopped in the last three tests he played in and only reach the starting line-up of his club when their first choice flyhalf is not available, Matfield who got progressively worse in every test he played in since his return to rugby.  One can go on and on about the other players as well.
The fact is that Meyer had a fixation in 2012 about players he was acquainted with - he said so himself and his latest comment on Du Preez is typical.  He said that he knows he will be criticized about certain selections like Du Preez - but he knows what they are capable of for instance Du Preez despite a long absence from competitive rugby.  When he knows what they are capable of is not necessarily what they are capable of at present.  He did not use them at all in the recent RC.
I have never seen a WC squad where the main topic of discussion for the selection of the squad was - would some players be ready to play after a long absence due to serious injury and with virtually no game time after recovery being in evidence.   The little bit they dd play was really below par.  The talk of the town is that some players like Matfield and De Villiers are going along to assist the younger players and that they won't even start in WC games and be on the bench.  Is that really why they are going?  
What is clear is that the squad announced for 2003 was doomed from the start - the squad to be announced today is even worse in that respect.   It is a disgrace that we have players in that squad who are not the first choice players of their franchises and clubs - yet they are selected because the coach is aware of what they were capable of years ago or on the basis of the coach be under pressure to select them to meet quota requirements without regard to present performances.                                    
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Aug 2015, 02:03
#15
28 Aug 2015, 02:03#15
 HM is on a hiding regardless of the squad makeup......one has to wonder why anyone would want to be the Bok coach.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Aug 2015, 08:20
#16
28 Aug 2015, 08:20#16
 MArcell Coetzee has been very good and its very unfortunate he and vermuelen are on the injury list. Lets have no more ignorant comments about the classy Coetzee. 
Frankly the bok coaching job is a poison chalice as he cant pick the side he wants because of quotas. What other team in the world has this handicap. 
Between quotas and bad selections our back up side is decimated. When will that con artist matfiled depart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Well lets wait and see how bad it will be. Ou pdv is busy working up a storm to get in as many quota players as possible. This bitter little fellow cant fathom why nobody of substance wants him as a coach given his brilliance as a coach!!!! What a buffoon!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Aug 2015, 13:14
#17
28 Aug 2015, 13:14#17

Moz your comments are a load of ignorant, ill-informed crap.....starting with CJ Stander, you will find that quite a few on here have mentioned him.


Your comments smack of a lack of insight and qualify your conservatism. What utter rubbish regarding Faf's boot, one only needed to watch his last game to laugh that off.


Imagine being stupid enough a coach to leave our best loosehead out in Kitshoff.


Hougaard is on fire right now for the Bulls at 9, negating all the utter rubbish ever written about him.


The list goes on


Who is he - Munster player of the year is who he is 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Aug 2015, 14:06
#18
28 Aug 2015, 14:06#18
No rather watch Faf in the crucial S15 game against the Stormers at the end of the tournament....his boot was a problem. In fact watch the same game to see why Kriel, Whiteley, Jantjies and Vorster aren't there either .
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Aug 2015, 14:42
#19
28 Aug 2015, 14:42#19
 The Stormers flopped badly in that game and the players mentioned by Mozart actually contributed to the outcome - an extremely lucky draw by the Stormers.   Vorster played the fool with De Jongh and went through him like a knife through butter.   Faf's boot was no problem - Jantjies's boot was.
Mozart are very quick to claim on dubious grounds who let the teams down - but you can bet your bottom dollar the real let-downs will never be dealt with - only his perceived prejudice against players he dislikes will be dealt with.  
I know what is going to happen in the WC - we will not survive the quarterfinal and the players Mozart will blame will be those who perform better and the real let-downs that he favours will not be mentioned at all by him.    
Hugh Bladen is absolutely right - there are too many over the hill reputation players in the squad and we are going nowhere fast in this WC.           
— END OF THREAD —

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