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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Problems in finding a replacement for Meyer

The Problems in finding a replacement for Meyer

Started by clevermike18 REPLIES505 VIEWS· 14 Aug 2015, 09:24
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Aug 2015, 09:24
#1
14 Aug 2015, 09:24#1
The following article from Tinelive:-
"There's a gaping hole in the argument peddled by the doom merchants calling for Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer's head.

There are no genuine alternatives banging down the door for a chance. And it's exactly why the air is thick with talk that Meyer will be offered an extension of his four-year term.

Had you been handed free rein to appoint any coach you like, you would probably opt for someone like Robbie Deans, the worldly New Zealander. Refreshingly apolitical and shot through with excellence, he would measure up perfectly.

Trouble is, SA rugby is conservative, and giving the top job to an uitlander would be an admission that local coaching structures aren't good enough. This is precisely why it would never happen. So, rule out John Mitchell and John Plumtree while you're at it.

Predictably, some have called for a return of either Nick Mallett or Jake White. Forget it. SA rugby doesn't do sequels.

It doesn't get easier when you consider other potential claimants to the poisoned chalice. Brendan Venter is too cranky (and too busy); Rassie Erasmus doesn't enjoy the coalface; Allister Coetzee is stuck in Japan, and his final term in Cape Town was tired and complacent; and Gary Gold has his hands full at the Sharks.

More realistic contenders can be found elsewhere. Johan Ackermann was never the most flamboyant lock, but he's flicked the switch at the unsexy Lions. They play entertaining rugby and have rediscovered the art of winning thanks to the most unlikely of figures. Last season, he was named coach of the year.

Johan van Graan is the least known of the contenders. He is one of Meyer's assistants.

The way senior members of the Bok squad talk about him says much for his ability - he is an astute coach whom they rate highly. He was courted by both the Bulls and the Stormers a few weeks ago, turning the Bulls down on account of dad being the boss, and failing to agree financial terms with the Stormers.

Gert Smal was in the race when Meyer got the job four years ago, but he's slipped back in the reckoning. Grinding away in an office at Newlands can do that to you.

In three or four years, perhaps a stab with WP's John Dobson? He's a former rugby writer, which is no bad thing.

The truth is, there's no coach breathing down Meyer's neck. It's only the rest of us who are."

What a pity we are dealing with dinosaurs here.  The SA coaching set-up is a disgrace, but the fact is that the public has to put up with it.  Lets expand on the disgrace - three Super Rugby coaches has been fired or resigned after two years of failure and they still cannot find replacements.

I would say either of Deans or Plumtree would be the answer - the fact is that our rugby will show progress with those two - at present it is stagnating and further slipping down the ratings table is on the cards.   We will soon find ourselves outside the top 8 - the way things are going.  



AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
14 Aug 2015, 18:08
#2
14 Aug 2015, 18:08#2
Never fear guys we always have great ex-players who will rise to meet the challenges of managing a Springbok team. 
Names that come to mind are:
Watson, Matfield and Burger.
Any more that you guys can think of that meet the standard required.
Joke of course.

KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
14 Aug 2015, 19:35
#3
14 Aug 2015, 19:35#3
 Laurence Sepaka is being groomed by SARU.  He is in the mix and is being toted as Meyer's replacement. Currently involved with the women team.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 06:35
#4
15 Aug 2015, 06:35#4
 Freddie
Great  news - the Women's team is not in the top 8 in the world - so Sepaka is doing an excellent job.  That really is what we must aim for to meet objectives to deflect  criticism of the performance of other codes of sport - say soccer.   
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
15 Aug 2015, 07:44
#5
15 Aug 2015, 07:44#5
 Yebo Mike, You see there is always a fresh excuse when these codes under the "correct" coach do not win.  Have you seen the size of the bum and tits on these chicks?  Gravity can be blamed for their poor performance.
Verstaan mooi, nê! I am not the one toting him that is just a story I heard.  I would not have one coach but two working together like Jake and shadow in 2007. Eddie and Jake worked so close you could not really say who did what - unfair that Jake got all the glory though.  I think Mitchell and Nick would be good but they may just spend too much time fighting each other - but between them they would be good.  I think there could be a joppie for my bru Chester as well, he can be the windowdresser and liaise with Cosatu men necessary.  There can be a spot for brother Laurence too - he can like teach the bag carrier how to carry many bags.
Jokes aside, it is going to be very difficult to find a coach that satisfies the Cosatu criteria and still maintain fan favourite and win games.  South Africa is a complex place..
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
15 Aug 2015, 08:56
#6
15 Aug 2015, 08:56#6

Watson???????????

I did not know Andre is also a coach!


or wait ......


Maybe you have Mr. Pukey Kotze in mind ... nah. 


DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
15 Aug 2015, 12:42
#7
15 Aug 2015, 12:42#7
Ackermans model won't work at test level and is no better than what Meyer has built. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 14:14
#8
15 Aug 2015, 14:14#8
 DF
You are wrong about the reason why people wants Meyer replaced.  The reason is simple - Meyer had three years to build up a world squad and he wasted that opportunity - with the result hat even at this late stage there is still uncertainty about the squad membership - especially in certain key positions. 
The main reason for that was that Meyer insisted on bringing back from retirement a lot of has beens and never has beens because he was acquainted with them and we now ended up without a real captain and must have a physically very deficient lock in the team - because there is no other captain available.  The lot Meyer should never have brought back include Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha, Matfield, Du Preez, Juan Smith and Jacque Fourie.  He also have in his squad regular under-performers like Ruan Pienaar, Morne Steyn, Francois Steyn, Willem Alberts and JP Pietersen.
Instead of basing his selection on sustained performance he picked players who regularly under-performed.   Of the above lot Steenkamp and Bakkies Botha would still have been in his squad if they did not announce their retirement, Jacque Fourie has been in shocking physical condition and so is Du Preez who has not played a competitive rugby game for 14 moths.  Juan Smith was given one opportunity in a test and failed miserably - so Meyer shied away from that one.  Matfield's presence has resulted in the loss of competitiveness in tight play and a very poor record in all tests he played in - even in those matches we won - he was seriously poor in that Department of the game.  
Willem Alberts played in only 3 Super 15 matches since June 2014 and was shockingly poor in all three matches.   Morne in the tests last year was so poor Meyer in fact had no option but to drop him from the team twice - those occurred after the June tests against Wales and then again after his disaster in Perth.  Francois Steyn has had the worst Super 15 performances of any inside center in SA Franchises playing in that position in the last three years and part of his problem has been physical - he routinely was overweight, unfit and pace-deficient developing a whacky knee as a result.  JP Pietersen is the slowest cart-horse imaginable as a wing and Ruan Pienaar hs switched off the lights and forgot to switch it back on - slow, predictable and at best iffy.
There is one lesson that Meyer never learnt and is being taught to him harshly - reputation without performance is disastrous for the Springboks as a team.  There are way to many has beens and never has beens in that squad of his only because of reputation without any regard to performance.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Aug 2015, 14:38
#9
15 Aug 2015, 14:38#9

Sure Pervert, lets hire the sour Robbie Deans 

 

Robbie Deans at ANZ Stadium ahead of his last game as coach, the Sydney Lions Test. Photo: Cameron Spencer/Getty Images Source: Getty Images

TAKE it from a Kiwi. Removing New Zealand born Robbie Deans as Wallabies coach was absolutely the right decision. It's time for an Australian to coach Australia again.

Having led the Canterbury Crusaders to five Super Rugby titles, Deans' record was unimpeachable when the ARU hired him. There is no connection between that stellar resume and Deans' abysmal performance as Wallabies coach.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 14:44
#10
15 Aug 2015, 14:44#10
 Sure Dr Goebbels
Meyer is no better than Deans was and he would select players on merit - not on whom he knew in the past like Meyer does.  Fact is Meyer has ended up with a seriously  deficient WC squad - because of poor selections.       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Aug 2015, 14:52
#11
15 Aug 2015, 14:52#11
Firstly there is no case a foreign born coach succeeding over time with a SA S15 franchise. And the national job has even more nuances. But above all why, I ask you as I try to stop laughing, would you want to appoint a proven failure?  You seem to know nothing about management. Have you even had one direct report in your lif e Perv?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 15:13
#12
15 Aug 2015, 15:13#12
 Goebbels 
This has bugger-all to do with me - but with managing and coaching a team.   I do not want Deans or anybody else - I merely pointed out that Deans would not have made the mess Meyer made.   
Your deficient knowledge of rugby fails to inform you that Rugby Union is the third level in popularity as a game in Australia - the more popular game is Rugby league and Aussie Football.   Rugby has limited appeal in Australia and the talent pool Deans had to select from was limited as well.  Meyer had a much wider talent pool - but he preferred the has beens and never-has-beens with the result that with a month to go before the WC there is no certainty about his squad as yet.
That is what sh!t management really is.   .  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Aug 2015, 16:54
#13
15 Aug 2015, 16:54#13
Actually I have spent plenty of time in Australia supervising companies. I am well aware of the strengths of the other codes. Nonetheless Oz has won two WCs. There is plenty of talent to be successful. Deans failed because he tried to change the Aussie model....which is exactly what you want to do with the Bok model.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 17:01
#14
15 Aug 2015, 17:01#14
 I do not want to change the Springboks model - I just want to see it works better which is not possible with the present non-performing elderly selected by Meyer being replaced by performing players.
We need a dominant Tight 5 - we have not got one.  We do not need robots at 10 and 12 - to kick away possession aimlessly and inaccurately.  We do not need the sick and the lazy in the team.  Those are all issues you ignore and support.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Aug 2015, 17:14
#15
15 Aug 2015, 17:14#15
Dream on. Apart from our great team in 2007, we haven't made another final in 20 years and only one semi. There is no dominant talent pool as so many fans believe. We have a scattering of world class players, who put together with intelligence have a shot. This dream of a dominant tight 5 has been crushed so many times....by NZin the 2003 quarters for example. We had almost every player fans would have nominated for a dominant tight 5 against the Bargies...how did that work out for you?
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
15 Aug 2015, 17:46
#16
15 Aug 2015, 17:46#16
 In all of the past 100 years, we probably have produced a handful of international quality centres. And yet the fans don't know why the Saffer sides cannot attack! Yep, 10 plays flat and runs it on his own and everything is 'ayt G. Problem is, playing flat allows your centres to come upon the defence early, oops! You never hear about that one. South Africas talent is mostly centred around locks, loose-forwards and scrum halves. But we are producing the worst crop of 9s I have ever seen. There was a time, even in the dark days, where we could play our 5th choice 9 and he could compete with anyone. No, the players we are producing now are physically weak, fast, generic skill players who can't quite pin down a position. That's where our troubles are, a direct response to the frantic game the Super rugby comp is trying push.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
15 Aug 2015, 17:56
#17
15 Aug 2015, 17:56#17
 Moz,  the 2011 was the best we took to the WC,  with the 99 team a close second.  2007 team was good,  but we had a bit of luck. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Aug 2015, 18:06
#18
15 Aug 2015, 18:06#18
I don't disagree in pure talent terms, although 2007 had one thing that was crucial ... Habana's pace. By 2011 he had lost just enough to reduce the threat of deep breakouts.
But ironically in the case of the two teams you cite as the best, we were beaten by Oz who supposedly have inferior talent.

Personally I think it's more a question of a committed stable team, a clear playing style the players have the skills to execute  and guts. Oz beat us on guts in both those WC losses.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Aug 2015, 18:56
#19
15 Aug 2015, 18:56#19
Goebbels
Have we got a stable team now?  Nobody seems to think we have since a month before the WC the squad selection is still a shambles - and who is to blame for that?


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