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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Quince and the Stampkar

The Quince and the Stampkar

Started by Mozart65 REPLIES1,425 VIEWS· 23 Nov 2020, 01:40
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SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Nov 2020, 23:14
#41
25 Nov 2020, 23:14#41
Well that is rubbish Moz because there is no such thing as a player who operates in traffic who gains loads of metres or beats loads of defenders. Let’s take the physical freak that is Etzebeth for instance, there is no more physical a player in the game and his stats in traffic are no better than PSDT or CJ’s because players are seldom individually dominant in contact because all players are physically conditioned to stand up to anything thrown at them. Same applies to Kitshoff, Marx, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Nyakane, Beast, Lood, RG, Vermeulen etc operating in traffic
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Nov 2020, 04:08
#42
26 Nov 2020, 04:08#42

Steph struggles to generate momentum. Most often defenders watch outside the primary tackler to break upon the backs. They know Steph will run straight and fall to the ground, and another predictable phase will ensue. He has below average hands, is slow, struggles to read play, bleeds turnovers, misses nearly half of his defensive engagements, no offload, no pass. What exactly does he excel at? Lineouts? Yeah, sure. No. Steph doesn't go anything particularly well. He has two good performances in his test career: the Wallaby win in 2018, and the away Twickenham test of 2018. Quite stunningly without error. Aside from that? Zippo. Makes the job of those around him harder, not easier. They tend to be scapegoats. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 05:24
#43
26 Nov 2020, 05:24#43

Dave....so let’s see, your argument is Etzebeth is no better a runner than Dud Toit. Nor is Kitshoff, Marx or the Beast. But Dud Toit is no better than them either. Nor is Stampkar.

But those guys aren’t assigned as the main ball carrier....they don’t get the ball 20 times a game. Based on your argument  we could assign anybody as the designated runner....they are all mediocre.


Forgive me if I think the Beast is a better ball carrier and Marx knows how to offload...something Dud and Stamp have never added. How pathetic really, professional ball carriers who can’t  even add one simple variation. Hell Schalk did and became much more effective as a result.


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
26 Nov 2020, 07:23
#44
26 Nov 2020, 07:23#44

Omlett and Omellete still trying to pretend that the 2 time SA Player of the Year, the World Player of the Year, the Player of the 2019 RWC and nominee for Player of the Decade is actually a crap player.

LMAO!

The descriptions that these two laughable rugby noobs have of Pieter-Steph's ball carrying is actually applicable to their hero Skulk Burger who couldn't bust through a strand of candyfloss without falling over, rather than Pieter-Steph whose powerful running with the ball has earned him so many accolades from people who actually know something about the game.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 07:44
#45
26 Nov 2020, 07:44#45

Powerful Dud runs for an average of little more than a metre, beating no tackles and always dying with the ball. Hell  give it to Malherbe he could fall forward further than that.

The Stampkar myth is being exposed as we watch....


6. CJ STANDER – 4: There are days when his display falls off a cliff and this was one of them. Ireland needed to break the gain line but two metres off five carries illustrated how restricted his influence was. Did stop Jamie George from scoring on nine minutes when England tapped quickly, but the only surprise was that he wasn’t pulled long before Will Connors eventually appeared on 65 minutes.


.....Dud Toit is next.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 11:48
#46
26 Nov 2020, 11:48#46

Mozart

If you have not heard yet - Du Toit was World Player of the Year in 2019 - so stoip makong a totl fool of yourself. 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 11:53
#47
26 Nov 2020, 11:53#47

By the way dumb idiots - and I mean both Mozart and AO - who drew in defender and then make a classy pass to Kolbe to  score in the WC Final?    

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Nov 2020, 12:12
#48
26 Nov 2020, 12:12#48

Who has the highest turnover rate of every Bok? Who misses the most tackles? Thus, carries and tackles are below standard. A carrier who ranked 28th of all SA ball carriers in the 2019 Super Rugby season, who ranked 17th overall of all flanks in the same competition, gains little ground and has trouble securing possession. Were it not for our two-to-three cleaners at every ruck, we'd have an even bigger problem. But, that organization around the field (the implementation) is partly why we are so predictable. Just like the Stormers were under Rassie. This player routinely exposes our line, creating unnecessary overloads in channels of his fellow teammates. He cannot read play well, and is too reactive. He is a lot like Damian: Very emotional, reckless and thoughtless. Not a world-class player. It doesn't show up on the stat sheet, and it looks worse on film. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 15:11
#49
26 Nov 2020, 15:11#49

You are again totally deluded and is wrong in all respects when it comes to your two pet hate players - De Allende and Du Toit.   You write long sagas where they come short according to you - bit dreamed up their deficiencies and cannot prove a thing you wrote.  That is where I do think that you are basically either totally ignorant of the game of rugby or  dishonest, 

You tried to do the same with Erasmus and was caught out badly using falsified stats and then tried to blame me  for being wrong,     I really think you are a comedian in your utter stupidity, 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 17:09
#50
26 Nov 2020, 17:09#50

The pass for the Kolbe try? School boy stuff....a straightforward commit the man and pass.....you will see that in the Bishops U13 team every Saturday. Tell me when he offloaded in the tackle Wanker and released a player.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Nov 2020, 17:17
#51
26 Nov 2020, 17:17#51

Not much of a draw. Just threw it sideways. Hardly a demonstration of skill. Even if it were, it would be an anomally. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 19:27
#52
26 Nov 2020, 19:27#52

Yes...pretty much....but you take what you can get.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 19:38
#53
26 Nov 2020, 19:38#53

I think most people are sick and tired of the two prima donnas on site with their 5 000th or so repetitive contributions  on Erasmus and certain players based entirely on prejudice and lies,    They even invent their own stats - but in the end the only thing they achieve is to look more rugby illiterate, more idiotic and  a source for pity -  not amusement,      

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 19:38
#54
26 Nov 2020, 19:38#54

I think most people are sick and tired of the two prima donnas on site with their 5 000th or so repetitive contributions  on Erasmus and certain players based entirely on prejudice and lies,    They even invent their own stats - but in the end the only thing they achieve is to look more rugby illiterate, more idiotic and  a source for pity -  not amusement,      

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Nov 2020, 20:22
#55
26 Nov 2020, 20:22#55
Moz there is nothing mediocre about any of these players carries in traffic, it’s the norm. The average carry in traffic is about a metre for obvious reasons. My point is that a physical freak like Etzebeth is no more productive in contact than PSDT. All these players carry the ball in traffic some as more of a secondary role than the likes of PSDT given a player like Beast has a primary role of scrumming A player carrying the ball into contact to set up the next phase is not going to offload the ball now is he, for that would defeat the object of that play. You take contact to draw defenders in, you don’t offload. It’s part of structured play which makes up some 80% of a game. To say that when an opportunity presents itself in broken play to offload that PSDT has never done that, is utter rubbish, PSDT has offloaded as much as the next guy. PSDT’s strength is his impact in traffic, he is the primary go to, to carry the ball up setting up the next phase. If he was so crap at this role he would not be assigned the task, he would be dropped and we would not be winning as many games as we did in 2019. His involvement is relentless which is why he was named player of the year. Not because he gains 100m a match and beats 5 defenders - it’s because he is productive in contact, high in the number of tackles and a menace in disrupting opposition play. Mostert is the same kind of player without the productivity. He is all energy but unable to make an impact as he lacks grunt. It’s his own fault as it’s clear he does no gym work. Had he put on 10kg of muscle he would have been great You clearly have no idea about the roles various players are assigned in a game and that games are set up around structured patterns of play.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2020, 21:02
#56
26 Nov 2020, 21:02#56

Nonsense...great ball carriers beat tacklers and commit multiple tacklers.....Alberts did/Vunipola does. But great ball carriers also offload which makes their running less predictable and more effective....Whitelock does, Jaws does, Snyman does.

Dud Toit is all effort and nothing more....he is no better an athlete than the average Super lock.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Nov 2020, 22:31
#57
26 Nov 2020, 22:31#57
Rubbish Alberts might have many moons ago but not in today’s game. He has played a number of games for he Lions this season and made no more of an impression in traffic than any other player on the field Same applies to Billy these days - when last did Billy make an above normal impression in traffic The likes of Jaws etc only offload in broken play never in set structured phase play. Same applies to PSDT Your take on PSDT is a load of rubbish - if he was just a standard super rugby lock he would not have made the impression he has as a blindside at the highest level and won that award in the process. He is a phenomenal player - physical enough to make an impression and the work rate of two players.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2020, 23:10
#58
26 Nov 2020, 23:10#58

Alberts was way too slow to be a loosie and he did miss way to many crucial tackles.    He never ever made a turnover in breakdown play.as he was too slow to get to breakdowns and if he did he stood behind the mauls hoping the ball is past to him for a carry,   His average carries on  test level was 2,2 meters and 1.8 meters on Super Rugby level.   Too slow and too clumsy to be an effective loosie.

Alberts was a dud selection for the 2015 WC where he eventually played less than 30 minutes in the whole series,   Before the WC he played no rugby for 16 months.    Went to Stade Francais in 2016 on a three year contract  and made no impression at all at the Club.   Meyer was stupid enough  to extend his contract at Stade Francais,   When Meyer was  fired for gross incompetence  two players were also send  packing -  Morne and Alberts,   In my book the worst two players I have ever seen in  Springbok jerseys for different reasons.

Morne had  only one asset as a player and that was goal kicking.  He was for reasons I proved repeatedly a  totally failed pivot at flyhalf.    Alberts was a low activity player and slow to boot - absolutely useless at breakdowns even if he rarely did get there in time.          

       

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2020, 05:27
#59
27 Nov 2020, 05:27#59
It’s funny how many ‘great’ players are in successful teams. Many of them wouldn’t even be noticed in losing teams....Dud Toit and Stampkar are examples....and Stampkar demostrated the idea last weekend.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
27 Nov 2020, 09:53
#60
27 Nov 2020, 09:53#60

The last successful Bok loose trio was Thor, Alberts and Louw. Alberts was very successful creating breakdown pressure and making tackles both in traffic and out wide. 

Over the years I have done immense video analysis and posted all kinds of information, diagramming plays, time stamps and editing film. It's about time one of the dumpster muts got off their backsides and put something together instead of mouthing off for a change. Alberts missed many tackles? Show me something. Reference something. I'm always able to reference something. Some kind of statistical reference would be a start. There are always these ignorant claims without any evidence, and when called out, they just squeal more loudly! 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2020, 11:45
#61
27 Nov 2020, 11:45#61
PSDT has always been good even when playing under crap Bok coaches CJ has been brilliant for Munster How well a team is doing has absolutely no bearing on the individual ability of a good player over an extended period of time Take the current Griquas side, their 9 stands out despite the players around him
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Nov 2020, 17:13
#62
27 Nov 2020, 17:13#62

So according to that logic Jantjies’ failure at the Stormers is totally down to him.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Nov 2020, 18:19
#63
27 Nov 2020, 18:19#63

Trouble is very few people understand rugby. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Nov 2020, 22:26
#64
27 Nov 2020, 22:26#64
Quite possibly if the coach had no faith in him. To be honest I don’t even recall Jantjies playing for the Stormers One thing we know about Jantjies is that he needs a coach that believes in him. Something Ackerman did and he blossomed. Coetzee on the other hand never did and it showed
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2020, 17:23
#65
28 Nov 2020, 17:23#65

Or he needs a team that buys in to him as a colleague. Teams make players as much as players make teams.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Nov 2020, 17:52
#66
28 Nov 2020, 17:52#66

Wise words Mozart - but do not the same applies to coaches,    We had coaches in the past hated by players  and they flopped.    Any suggestions as to who falls in that category as coaches?    

— END OF THREAD —

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