The stupid Director of Rugby structure

Wonderful to be the coach who never won any silverware and kept SA 2 in three seasons and in 2014 started a slide that ended SA up no  6 ranked during the 2015 WC after losing in 6 of nine games from November 2014 to September 2015.   Who lost every game in the SR season in 2015 and for the first time ever lost against Japan.

According to AO Meyer had a wonderful game plan  he dreamed up and for the most part and the worst SA flyhalf in 20 years who was totally predictable with the worst out-of-hand kicking game imaginable, the worst tackling stats ever in tests played in 2013 and 2014 and had no idea about reading and deciding upon strategy - the worst I have ever seen on test level by a flyhalf.   

If ever there was a coach who had no backline strategy ever it was Meyer,  That is why he had a game plan allowing for passing the ball back to the forwards and get the ball passed to the flyhalf less than 30% of passes made by the scrummie.   That is why backline scoring of tries declined drastically as Meyer lost the plot completely.     If ever there was a coach totally devoid of a game plan and totally dependent on the forwards it was Meyer,   He even had at times a seven man Tight 5 and that made games dependent totally  on forward play,

AO praised the coach who led Stade Francais on club level to total disaster in 2019 - so much so that halfway through the Top 14 season he had the disgrace of being effectively fired,  He was given a massive budget to contract players and lost the plot completely.   His game plan he tried to force the players into was a poor concoction only Meyer is capable of and who could not communicate properly with the players he was supposed to coach,  The deadhead does not understand how a failed coach on club level was not an even worst failing coach on test level

This was a coach who stated that the SA backline players lacked the ball skills to play a ball-in-hand game and who claimed he based his selection on what the players he picked was capable of in the past and ignored the fact as to what they were capable of in 2014 and 2015,   The end result was a team whose try-scoring was the worst imaginable and where backline tries was 19 out of 35 tries scored in 2015.   A comparable statistical year is 2019 where the Springboks scored 50 tries in 2019 of which 35 were scored by backline players,    And the  idiot claim that the backline under Meyer was top class,   

Erasmus was according to him a shit coach - yet the team won the 2019 by a record margin in the WC final,   The first SA team who scored tries in the three WC finals the Springboks played in.  The players he condemned was really the top performers in 2019.    

All one can wish for AO is a Happy Idiots Day to him .         

SB

.Just a quote - 

By 2015, Habana, JP and Jean Devilliers were over the hill. Even FDP was past his best. Leroux was getting marked out of the game. The forwards also did not peak for the World Cup

Let me add one thing the key forwards were also over-the-hill.   

Meyer was the coach who selected the 2015 WC squad ending up with 8 of the 31 squad members being unplayable and whose inexperienced players lost the plot completely because of the Meyer game plan.  It took Erasmus a year to get them out of the gutter they found themselves in because of Meyer's and Coetzee's coaching.    Pollard is a typical example of a player who Meyer nearly succeeded in coaching his skill set out of him.

Our backline play was far more dynamic under HM. Have we scored a backline try against top opposition under Eraser that didn't originate in turnover ball.

 The Eraser 'miracle' rests on defence and the boot.

Aug

"This proposal was first put forth by Gert Smal, then by Meyer. Both had better models in mind..."

This says that you know what Rassie's model is. 

Do you know, or are you assuming? 

What is his model for SA rugby? How will clubs coordinate towards the Boks?

This is about Rassie as director of rugby. 

So please, tell us, what is his model for SA rugby.

Are you saying that his "model" is the same as it was when he was at WP? Like he decided ten years ago what he thought the best strategy was, and hasn't update it, altered direction or taking any new information into account?

Meyer was KAK. 

He inherited a good team.

And as his tenure went on, his results got worse and worse.

So did his his game plan.

He squeezed all life and all creativity out of the Boks.

Rassie may not have worked miracles with the backline. 

So let's forget all(numerous) the other positives, right? 

Let's also forget that he inherited a shambles of a team and won the RC championship once, very almost twice.

Clearly the guy is a fool. NZ are second rate.

Mozart

"Our backline play was far more dynamic under HM. Have we scored a backline try against top opposition under Eraser that didn't originate in turnover ball.

 The Eraser 'miracle' rests on defence and the boot."

This one is always crazy - almost as crazy as that fool AO is,  When was the backline play "dynamic" with Morne Steyn  at flyhalf?   And what happened to  Pollard and Le Roux - two players who can be rated as dynamic went down the drain when coached by Meyer.

Name me dynamic backline play under Meyer?    I can remember one try scored by Hougaard - in the 2014 Johannesburg test against the AB's - for the rest it was a dud from that perspective,   

The backline players in 2019 scored as many tries as the whole team scored  in 2015 - so where did the dynamic play under Meyer come from?

Meyer was effectively fired for three reasons, namely -

*    Poor selection of players - he was given a huge amount of money to contract players and fouled up totally;

*    A game plan even the players knew was a farce and would not lead to any advantages' and

*    Defective communication with the players,

The first two defects  were brazenly obvious in the period when Meyer coached the Springboks - the third one depends whether players were braai friends of Meyer or not.

The total result was that Meyer as Springbok coach was totally defective - the same he was at Stade Francais.

It is always easy to write total BS on site and easier to find out that it really is BS.  LMAO,  

Isn't it just logic though?

In a coach's first year, he has spent less time with the team. His results should be worse in that first year than in the third and especially fourth year.

Part of what he did was to pretend that the player's ages snuck up on him. Like he was jsut so unlucky to have to get Matfield out of retirement.

How's does Rassie's planning compare?

For a start, Meyer had two and a half years more time to plan. Where were the hero picks? 

Kolbe, Faf, Bongi(what a fantastic WC this guy had. We are rich in 2s) or Am? All of them with massive and heroic performances at crucial times. Does anyone from Meyer's 2015 campaign stand out as much as any of these? 

No.

Meyer was one dimensional in his thinking and it permeated his execution too. He didn't have the vision to pick individuals that could compliment a system. He placed no value on x-factor and was all about size and reputation. 

Stop giving Meyer credit for backline scores. The devolution of the back line correlates directly to his time in the seat. 

"There were heroes all over the field for South Africa today." - 2019 World Cup

"I leave the team with much to look forward to in 2016" - Meyer upon resignation.

Ja, 2016 was epic china. 

Plum

Meyer said the same on his return from Paris in 2015 and was all agog about having his contract extended,   When it was clear he would not get an extension - he resigned,  \Same as he did at Stade Francais before he was booted out,

For the rest I agree with your summary.     

Sport24 - 3 December 2015:-

"Heyneke Meyer has advised the South African Rugby Union (SARU) that he no longer wished to be considered as a candidate to coach the Springboks".

Meyer communicated his desire to stand aside to SARU following a recent meeting with Oregan Hoskins, SARU president, and the CEO, Jurie Roux.

SARU’s General Council was set to meet on December 11 to discuss Meyer’s future as coach, but that meeting will now be to find a suitable replacement for Meyer.

Former Stormers coach Allister Coetzee has been widely tipped as the man to take over." 

Read and understand the implications of that meeting and what he was told by Hoskins and Roux.   If they did not tell him there is no chance of renewal of his contract would he have resigned?  

A meeting as to Meyer's future as a coach was to be held a week later and before that could be held - he resigned,  Why?  Because he was told by Hoskins and Roux that there is zero chance of the contract being  extended,       

Meyer said that he was vacating the job to spend more time with his family.

Didn't he soon afterward take up the role in Japan? Maybe that's where his extended family live.

Then soon after that he went to France.

Well at least in France he didn't have to wake up at 2am to call home.

Anyhow, it sounds like he had a bit of a dream opportunity in France. 

Plum

Ceradyne

He was appointed at Stade Francais at the beginning of the 2018-19 Top 14 season and lasted 15 months buggering up royally in he process.   The interim was not three years - but that is not really important.

He was gone as Springbok coach and gone as Stade Francais Coach,  Just wonder who was most delighted about his departure - the Springbok supporters or the Stade Francais supporters,    

“  Posted by: clevermike (39280 posts)

Plum

Whatever Ceradyne came up with the fact was that there was no chance of a contract extension for Meyer whatsoever,  “

Says who? Give me the evidence of this BS you’ve been peddling for four years and convince me. Don’t be a Gordon Sondland and try to bullshit us with your one presumption. Give us some sort of hard evidence or STFU. 

As you said the interim period was not exactly three years bit if you really want to be pedantic over the difference between three years and more or less two and a half years, then so be it. It does not make any difference but you still have fokol evidence of the lie you’ve been peddling for four years  almost to the day, since HM resigned on 3 Dec 2015, IIRC and you’ve been talking kak about it since the day his resignation became news  

Meyer was gone as Springbok coach and gone as Stade Francais Coach,  Just wonder who was most delighted about his departure - the Springbok supporters or the Stade Francais supporters,    

LMAO

Our backline play peaked in the 2013 AB test where we ran in 2 tries against the ABs from set play deep in our half. In 2014 we likewise beat them with running rugby.

So what is Eraser going to promulgate....the Japanese and Welsh  Tests style. Or let's be optimistic....the Pom test with a bunch of crashball and 2 tries both of which came from turnover ball?

The only thing standing  between Eraser and complete attacking sterility was Kolbe.....zippo to do with the coaching.

If Eraser as Director of Rugby effectively becomes the uber coach of all our Super teams all he has to offer is Defence and the boot.....the other stuff he brought, tactics on the day and excellent team motivation is coal face and has to come from the actual coach.

"Dec 02, 2019, 16:16

Meyer was gone as Springbok coach and gone as Stade Francais Coach,  Just wonder who was most delighted about his departure - the Springbok supporters or the Stade Francais supporters,    

LMAO  "

Still ducking and diving then? Where's your evidence of the firing ou Tokkie Sondland, or is it Gordon Saayman?

Mozart

In the previous WC finals the Springboks  scored ZERO TRIES - neither did they score any in the WC semi in 2015.   In 2019 the Springboks scored 50 tries with 34 by backline players - in the whole of 2015 the Springboks scored 36 tries of which 19 were scored by backline players,

So you did not want to see the two backline tries scored by the two wings as quality tries and come up with your normal - if the ball bounced badly in the case of the kick  no try would have been scored.   With respect total BS to even come up with that one. And after your claiming Slade was the best center in the world  he was stripped of the ball and ended up with du Toit who drew in a defender and passed the ball to Kolbe who was in the clear and had Farrell and some forwards  ahead of him,   Farrell - another player you praised in the past as a real deal flyhalf  - fouled up badly by missing a routine tackle he should have made and Kolbe scored the try,    In both tries their were both a forward and backline combination at work,      

In plane simple words the scoring of tries by backline players were nearly twice as many in 2019 comparted to 2015 - but you have not seen what happened and tried to denigrate the scoring of tries to a negative by claiming it was always poor tries being scored and the backline was useless, .   

Those who do not want to see reality - will not see it and denigrate it,   Are you not ashamed of distorting things that you should have realized,   But than what else can one expect from you,          

Try to use your brain  just a little bit Cleverwanker. Nobody is saying they weren't quality tries....nobody is saying backs and forwards weren't involved. The  assertion is this  came from  exploitation of opportunities presented by opposition errors.....not from creative backline play, like the Ellis Park tries against theABs in  2013.

You take one test in four years of disastrous backline coaching and that became the norm for Meyer,    Just one further remark - how many tries worldwide by all countries against top opposition didn't originate in turnover ball or by mistakes made by teams?     As to tries scored  by players following up kicks there is always a fairly high percentage of such,   However, according to you they can be cut out on the part of the Springboks as accidental - but not in the case of  other teams.        

In the WC series this year there were only 4 tries scored against SA and three of those were the result of foul-ups by the Springboks,   One of those was the direct result of  defense deficiencies by players you admire most - so what else is new on this site, bar total BS by you,

Of the Ellis Park test you refer to two of the four tries came after following up kicks by Habana himself.   The fact is that the famous test you quoted was LOST because of piss poor performance by your hero Morne  - he missed 4 tackles that day and 2 of those led to tries by the All Blacks,    The third try was also the result of total Morne idiocy and then there were the missed tackle by Alberts on Reid and the latter's inability to make a turnover from the scrummy tackled immediately in front of him - he fell over his own feet instead,.   

No Mozart - despite your BS stories the Springboks backline performances this year from an attacking perspective was hugely better than it ever was under Meyer who in any event said publicly that the Springbok backline players he selected did not have the skills to play a ball-in-hand game and whose game plan did not really allow for proper backline usage for attacking purposes anyway,   

Keep up the BS - it is highly amusing to see how idiotic you are when it comes to rugby,   LMAO

, 

You take one test in four years of disastrous backline coaching and that became the norm for Meyer,    Just one further remark - how many tries worldwide by all countries against top opposition didn't originate in turnover ball or by mistakes made by teams?     As to tries scored  by players following up kicks there is always a fairly high percentage of such,   However, according to you they can be cut out on the part of the Springboks as accidental - but not in the case of  other teams.        

In the WC series this year there were only 4 tries scored against SA and three of those were the result of foul-ups by the Springboks,   One of those was the direct result of  defense deficiency  by a player you admire - so what else is new on this site, bar total BS by you,

Of the Ellis Park test you refer to two of the four tries came after following up kicks by Habana himself.   The fact is that the famous test you quoted was LOST because of piss poor performance by your hero Morne  - he missed 4 tackles that day and 2 of those led to tries by the All Blacks,    The third try was also the result of total Morne idiocy and then there were the missed tackle by Alberts on Reid and the latter's inability to make a turnover from the scrummy tackled immediately in front of him - he fell over his own feet instead,.   

No Mozart - despite your BS stories the Springboks backline performances this year from an attacking perspective was hugely better than it ever was under Meyer who in any event said publicly that the Springbok backline players he selected did not have the skills to play a ball-in-hand game and whose game plan did not really allow for proper backline usage for attacking purposes anyway,   

Keep up the BS - it is highly amusing to see how idiotic you are when it comes to rugby,   LMAO

, 

Nigel Owens says HM's Boks were brilliant:

Cape Town - Nigel Owens says the 2013 Rugby Championship clash between the Springboks and All Blacks at Ellis Park was the best match he has ever refereed.

Owens, the most experienced referee in the history of Test match rugby with 76 Tests under his belt, was answering fan questions on the Wales Online website. 

When asked what the best game he has ever refereed was, Owens pointed to the finale of that year's Rugby Championship when the Boks went down 38-27 in front of a packed Johannesburg crowd. 

"It was at Ellis Park 2013. Four weeks after that I reffed Ireland v France in Dublin which was the second best," Owens said.

"The South Africa game was brilliant. They needed to win with a bonus point to take the Rugby Championship. NZ needed a losing bonus point so they both had everything to play for.

Mozart

This is a nut case argument is based on 1 test out of circa 50 tests played which according to you  was the norm for the backline attacking play during the Meyer era,   Please note that you must have changed your tune again.   The 13 center in that game was JJ Engelbrecht.

Anyway another brilliant game LOST.   That is a further reason why that game was actually not really a norm to determine backline performance over circa 50 tests  anyway.  Owens referred to the team inclusive .of the backline - not to the backline specifically,   The whole discussion is on backline attacking performance - but that is an example of your normal evasive nature when you want to respond deviously on comments pertaining to your earlier BS statements spouted on site.          

Cera

I specifically remember him saying that.

Actually remember commenting on it immediately afterwards.

Anyhow, in Rassie, we kinda got what I asked for under Meyer.

That being, we don't have to be No. 1, as long as we don't lose to the ABs before even taking the field.

Meyer just seemed content with that. 

“  Posted by: Plum (4828 posts)

Cera

I specifically remember him saying that.

Actually remember commenting on it immediately afterwards.“

The Reason Why Former Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer Resigned

The Springboks’ defeat at the Rugby World Cup last year still haunts him, Heyneke Meyer revealed.

The former Bok coach recently opened up to journalist Hanlie Retief on her chat show, ’n Halfuur met Hanlie.

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One could have made lots of excuses. I’m not here to badmouth people. That’s really not my intention. All I can say is that I think one doesn’t realise how difficult it is politically off the field. I’m talking about rugby politics. It’s tough. And I think it’s going to be the great challenge for the next coach.

“Without making excuses or badmouthing people, I don’t think people realise how difficult it is for the national coach. There are things beyond his control; things off the field.”

It’s widely speculated that Stormers coach Allister Coetzee will take over as national coach. According to reports, the final announcement about the sought-after job will be made this week.

Meanwhile Heyneke says his wife, Linda, is his rock and he’s enjoying spending quality time with his family. The dad of three sons says, “She always teases. She says when we met we were 15/16 and I said rugby always came first, second and third, then her. But I think it’s turned around now – she now comes first, second and third, then rugby.”

He’s proudly South African and is positive about the Boks. “I think if South Africa gets the system right we can be unbeatable. I think the system is already better than it was. But there’s still a lot of work ahead.”

"He resigned in December after heavy criticism of his success rate, among other things. It was the most difficult decision of his life, he said.

“I said I was there to serve and if people thought I could no longer serve, I was prepared to leave.”

Listen dimness

That is total BS.   It is obvious that Meyer wanted to continue coaching the Springboks, but after an interview with Hoskins and Roux dealing with his report on the 2015 WC series he suddenly resigned.

It was clear by his actions that he would not have been considered for contract renewal - there was no reason to terminate his contract anyway - it ran up to 31 December 2015 unless extended - so your statement about potential firing like in the case of Coetzee is utter BS,  Meyer was in the same position as De Villiers - end of contract looming so no termination of service was required. 

I never said Meyer was forced out - it would not have been necessary,   The fact is there was zero chance of contract renewal and as  a face-saver he resigned, rather then just letting the contract run out at the end of the same month in which he resigned.

Jake White was in the same position as  De Villiers and Meyer.   In all three cases it was apparent that the contracts was up for renewal.   Fact is there was a huge fight between the Watson aligned Unions and the rest of the Unions about letting White continue.   The "Watson Unions" suddenly got the support of the Bulls and the Cheetahs because they wanted Meyer as Springbok coach - otherwise the Watson aligned Unions would have been defeated and White would have remained coach for another 4 years.   Some of the White support Unions got pissed off by the conduct of the Bulls and when they then voted for appointment of a Head Coach, they voted with the Watson aligned Unions for appointment of De Villiers, with Meyer having to wait for another four years before he became another failed coach.   

“ It was clear by his actions that he would not have been considered for contract renewal - there was no reason to terminate his contract anyway - it ran up to 31 December 2015 unless extended - so your statement about potential firing like in the case of Coetzee is utter BS,  Meyer was in the same position as De Villiers - end of contract looming so no termination of service was required.   “

This is your own assumption. Where is your evidence? I know, I know. It is basically a rhetorical question since we all know that you cannot produce any.

“ I never said Meyer was forced out - it would not have been necessary,   The fact is there was zero chance of contract renewal and as  a face-saver he resigned, rather then just letting the contract run out at the end of the same month in which he resigned. “

BS. You’ve been saying that for four years.

“ Jake White was in the same position as  De Villiers and Meyer.   “

This is the biggest load of BS in your entire post, if not on the entire thread. Jake White was the one coach who logically had a clear path to a renewal of his contract, having just won the RWC. 

If there ever was a coach who was forced out in a cynical way, it was him. Fokol to do with the Watsons or any other BS you want to dream up. The appointment of PDV and the official reasons given for his appointment is proof enough. 

The SARU “logic” was clear as daylight. “If we want to appoint a ‘successful’ coach of colour it has to be done in a way that his success is as guaranteed as possible”. 

What better opportunity was there than after 2007? A young team of RWC champions with a winning ethos already instilled. 

Everything was perfectly set up for SA’s first RWC winning (and the world’s first successful RWC title defence) by an SA coach of  colour. What a massive prize that would have been for the ANC and SA politics?

But then Twakkies blew it.

Meyer's contract was going to be renewed. The decision was published. When this news broke, the public outcry was so severely negative, they decided on the meeting to "discuss things". He probably informed SA Rugby of his decision to retire at that meeting. Had he not fallen on his own sword, SA Rugby would probably have stabbed him in the back and fired him. He probably would have remained if it for the outcry in the media and social media.

This has always been my take on how and why he resigned...I can't quote any articles to back this, but everything I've read since then fits with this interpretation of the known facts.