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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Wise Eddie Jones

The Wise Eddie Jones

Started by clevermike5 REPLIES366 VIEWS· 15 Nov 2015, 08:44
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Nov 2015, 08:44
#1
15 Nov 2015, 08:44#1
The following from Supersport Rugby:-
"The incumbent Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer’s complaint about the lack of skills in South African players would probably draw a concurring nod from Eddie Jones – but he believes it is never too late to coach skills into even an experienced professional player and he intends to prove it in his new position as head coach of the Stormers.

The former Wallabies and Brumbies coach has only spent a week in the Cape since arriving to take the helm of the region’s premier rugby team, but he has seen enough of South African rugby over the years to know what is required to bring the attacking dimension that has too often been missing both at franchise and national level.

Without ever using the word in either his top table press conference or in the one-on-one interview Supersport.com conducted with him afterwards, it is clear that revolution is on Jones’ mind. A revolution in terms of how the players approach and view the game and what they are prepared to try on the field.

“One of the things that has always been obvious about South African teams to me when I have coached against them is that they are often happier without the ball,” said Jones.

“They prefer to give you the ball, and then they will smash you and try and feed off your mistakes. We have to have courage to play off our own ball. We have to have confidence to carry the ball and try things. That does have to be coached. The players have to be equipped with skills to play ball-in-hand, attacking rugby. It doesn’t just happen.

“But when you have equipped them with that skill set, then you can expect them to be confident to have a go when it is on. Even if you are just five metres out from your own line you can have a go and run it if you have a five against three situation and it is therefore on to do so. I know enough about Western Province to know that the WP tradition is to play attacking rugby.

“In the past few years the Stormers were known for a very strong defensive system. That was the strength they relied on and it was the way they played. It was reasonably successful because under Allister Coetzee the Stormers managed to win three out of five conference titles. But we want to retain that defensive strength and add an attacking dimension to it.”

For years there have been local coaches, not just Meyer, who have justified the implementation of percentage tactics on the argument that South African players just don’t have the skills to play any other way. Jones, now 55 and widely travelled as a coach since making his debut at professional level with the Brumbies in 1998, feels that is a defeatist argument.

“No-one is naturally skilful,” he says. “Everyone has to be coached or taught and there is no reasons why South African players can’t be skilful.”

Jones agrees that it does make it harder to impart those skills to players who are already professional and have been around the block a few times, but he cites two examples that disprove the theory that you can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

“It does make it harder when you get to this point, it is easier to teach kids, and that really is where it should be starting, but it is possible to teach them skills once they are professional. Just look at All Black centre Ma’a Nonu and (Bok flanker) Schalk Burger.

“When Nonu started he was a crash 'em and bash 'em kind of centre. He had his strengths, but all round he was a limited and one dimensional kind of player. But later on he was developed into a centre that could kick into space, who could pass the ball wonderfully, and who could make great attacking decisions. In the beginning Schalk was a ball scavenger like Richie McCaw, but now he’s one of the most skilful flankers in the game.”

The first thing that will have to change if South African rugby is going to shake off the shackles and equip itself to be a better attacking force, says Jones, is the mindset. In a nutshell, coaches need to start doing what they are employed to do.

“In South Africa I think there has been a tendency to pigeonhole players. There is a steady supply of talent, so very quickly a coach will decide that a talented player coming through has some flaw in his game and then he will be dispensed with in favour of the next player on the conveyor-belt. They will say ‘he can’t pass’ or ‘he can’t kick’ so they’ll get rid of him instead of working with him.

“In Australia it is different because you just don’t have a big supply line of players, so you have to work with a player who is flawed and remove those flaws through coaching. It is even more that way in Japan. An example of a South African player who does have a weakness is Eben Etzebeth. He can’t pass. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be taught to pass.”

A lot of what Jones is planning might sound ambitious. For instance, he admits that the Stormers may lack the experienced heads in the backline, and says “we may have to develop it”. However, it is not as if he is coming to the Stormers as an overseas coach who has just gauged the talent and the issues from afar. He was part of Jake White’s winning management team when the Boks last won the World Cup in 2007.

“The one thing that struck me in 2007 was how coachable the players were,” said Jones.

“I was impressed and surprised by their real desire to learn. They were thirsty for knowledge. That is what I want to do at the Stormers – I want to create a learning environment. I want players who are thirsty for knowledge.”

Jones admits that a big challenge initially at the Stormers is going to be the adjustment from the low expectation culture in Japan to the high expectation environment in the Western Cape that has made the Stormers and WP job so difficult for some of his predecessors.

“What was exciting in Japan was that I was taking over a joke team and trying to turn it into something. I had to introduce a culture, a mindset and a player style. The time is right for cultural and playing style change at the Stormers now because we have a young team. It is just a case of us needing to put the processes in place.

“But there will be an adjustment needed by me as there was no expectation in Japan. You were expected to lose every game. When you won a game it came as a big surprise. I know all about the expectations at the Stormers. It is a union that craves success and it is demanded by the media, supporters and by the board.

“That is where my handling of the media is going to be important. Luckily I have Gert (Smal) to handle the board in his capacity as Director of Rugby. The pressure that is brought to bear on a coach comes from the media, fans and the board. It is all interlinked. Hopefully if I can deal with the media well and Gert can handle the other stuff for me, some of that pressure will be off me.”

Jones has become renowned not only for his ability to handle the media in his various jobs around the globe, but also his willingness to use the media to get an advantage over opponents, often doubling that with a thrust geared towards selling the game. Will he be doing that in the more sensitive South African rugby environment?

“I am going to have to judge it. In Japan, and particularly in Australia, there is a need for a coach to sell the game, but here rugby is the No 1 sport so maybe you don’t have to sell it here quite as much,” he says.

“This is rugby country so I think I have to give good information to the media. But there will be opportunities through the media to put pressure on various areas of the opponent's game, and I will judge that when it arrives.”

Jones will be trying to fast-track the Stormers to where he wants them to be in Super Rugby by dovetailing the conditioning with skills work during the off-season summer months. It may be during that phase of the build-up that he will become better acquainted with what the squad’s strengths are and where the weaknesses may be.

For now though he seems happy to go in with the players he has in certain key areas where the Stormers may be short, most notably openside flank and flyhalf. Smal tried unsuccessfully to secure the signature of the Sharks’ Marcell Coetzee to fill one hole, and Racing Metro-based Johan Goosen was priced out of the market when it came to the quest to bring him to Cape Town to play No 10.

Jones wouldn’t say no if an experienced player in either position fell into his lap, but for now he is looking forward to working with young flyhalf Robert du Preez, while Rynhardt Elstadt, if he can stay uninjured, can look forward to being converted into the Stormers’ version of David Pocock.

“We’re not looking for newcomers there at this stage. It is going to be difficult because the No 6 flank does require a certain skillset, but that is where the coaching is going to have to come in. We just have to get a guy like Elstadt to be better over the ball, teach him new things. We will be looking to work hard at that during the off-season.”

One thing that Jones is sure about is that there’s no reason the Stormers shouldn’t be able to embrace the revolutionary change that he intends driving.

“One of the things that made this last World Cup particularly healthy was the refereeing, with the referees being brilliant at the scrums and in rewarding both good attack and defence. I think that was the most important factor in ensuring that the World Cup went off so well, and the best two teams played in the final.

“But what was also significant was the conditions that much of the tournament were played in. The fields were firm and fast. South Africa has conditions that promote the playing of that kind of rugby. It is dry and fast here, and yet South African teams often play the least amount of rugby. I’m looking forward to the challenge of changing that. There is no reason why the Stormers can’t evolve into a great attacking team that the fans really enjoy watching.”

And if the revolution works in the Cape, who says it can't spread to other areas of South Africa."

I highlighted two things that Jones said which is never understood by some members of the site - when they write on this site,   Strategic kicking as an alternative strategy is fine.  As a constant means of handing over ball possession to the opposition through inaccurate and aimless kicking is an abortion of what rugby as a sport represents.   That is why players like the Steyns are such an impediment in the game played in SA.

Jones realizes where the Stromers game plan fell flat in the past.  You cannot play rugby with a backline where over the last two years only one player really contributed - namely Damian de Allende.  For the rest the backline was totally inadequate with dummies like De Jongh and Leyds in the mix and suffering from incompetence iro of flyhalfs.

I can foresee a situation where Kolbe is moved to scrumhalf and where Senatla is tested as a wing - but the question remains is the latter a 7's specialist.    I can also foresee that younger and more competent players come to the fore in the Stormers backline.  

Despite the loss of Kitshoff and bearing in mind the acquisition of Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jones inherited one of the best forward packs in Super Rugby - the problem always was with the dud backline of the Stormers.

That is where the real "revolution" will take place.  It may not happen in 2016 already - but the effects will be felt for years t come.    

  


  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Nov 2015, 12:28
#2
15 Nov 2015, 12:28#2
 Loss of vermuelen is big.I wish eddie everything of the best. It is very important to sa rugby he achieves and brings back skills and balance.The Stormer forw ards remain good but I fear there are too many small backline players to handle the big time. Eddie will need time to recruit and equip.He and Smal make a very good combo.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
15 Nov 2015, 15:41
#3
15 Nov 2015, 15:41#3
 Once again you show you know nothing about rugby Michael. First and foremost it was Kolbe and de Jongh who were working in tandem to create pace for Damian all year, because Damian could not do his job as a 12. So the one player in that backline that has been doing the least is Damian. It was even worse on defence! Jones is going to have his work cut out for him as he likes a ball playing 12 who can make decisions and distribute flat on the line with 10. It's the Aussie way. So he will have to overhaul Damian's entire game from the ground up. Maybe we will see him learn to pass now, maybe not. It depends how he responds to it all. But being passive counts significantly against him. But Kolbe and de Jongh are outstanding distributors and readers of the game. They run the best lines of any players in the Stormers team, so they will be vitally important. 
Oh, and Michael, we went out of the World Cup because New Zealand could kick better! LMAO!!! What a chump. An abortion of the game - a strange phrasing to say the least. Since 2010 NZ have routinely kicked more than us and beat us for territory. What you advocate and what Jones advocates are two entirely different things. You demand running from deep and from everywhere. You even demanded the Boks take the ball wide against wide against Wales because you have no idea how the game is played, how the opposition pmay or what resources we have. Totally clueless, ignorant, inept and dom. And to think that you see yourself and Jones as like minded rugby gurus is the funniest thing yet. Keep dreaming Michael. 
SA players have skills across the board, except at centre. We only have Frans and de Jongh who have any of the ingredients for test rugby. Kriel is a fullback, and Damian is a wing. One would expect the Kriel-Damian groupies to be lying low after their embarrassing display in the World Cup. So much egg! But as we see here, Michael continues in his quest to reap the mother of all eggs. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
15 Nov 2015, 16:47
#4
15 Nov 2015, 16:47#4
 DF
Whenever I read your postings I have to stop myself from laughing myself into a stupor.  There are a number of issues here that started off the laughter because what you wrote is absolute BS and extremely funny.
The story that Kolbe and De Jongh creates space for De Allende is so ridiculous that one can only believe that somebody would zero knowledge of rugby can come up with that joke.   Neither of the two players are physically strong enough to break tackles or make line breaks so as to create space for anybody.  Matter of fact opposing centers and defenders treat both like rag dolls who is very possible of losing ball possession in the process.  Both can only do anything if somebody else put them into space and they have an open field with no defenders in sight to make an impression.
The story about Fat Fransie - the worst center for three years playing for any SA franchise in Super 15 - is a great joke too.  He is the only center where his coach said he is no center and his absolutely useless performances prove just that.   Remember I asked you once whether you can name any noticeable play Steyn participated in over the last three years in any game he played in - you could not find a single such case.  When evaluating the game of the Stormers - your evaluating of Steyn contained sentence after sentence about him taking up his position in the backline after of doing squat before he did take up that valued position.  Then you add the miracle disappearance De Jongh as a center - probably the worst center from an attacking or defending point of view.   He is more absent from games than any other player I have ever seen playng Super 15 rugby - in his last test he went AWOL completely.  You need a center in the team - not an escape artist.
Then there is always the BS argument about The AB's kicking balls better than the Springboks did.  Sure our kicking was piss-poor only handing possession over to the AB's - our replacement of the flyhalf by Burger was a joke as well - but the AB's scored tries and that made the difference.  No team can win key games by kicking balls away - that is where you are totally off your rocker.  Time to see your shrink again - the pills you need to take to prevent hallucination is not working anymore,
There is just one thing that SA backline players have the ne cessary skills to play any decent form of winning rugby and the most skill-deficient players are exactly the two you mentioned.   Players have to have brains to play rugby and those two are the real robots when it comes to rugby - they must be pre-programmed to do things on the field of play.  No match reading ability and no idea how to take decisions.   Hell - just think of the 2012 tests where the piss-poor Morne was at 10 and Fransie at 12.  That was the test where the AB commentators said their kicking game was BS - remember?  
I believe that Jones is right - you do not kick away everything - you must thus prevent the opposition to get easy possession.   Don't you understand the following remark made by Jones:-
 "One of the things that has always been obvious about South African teams to me when I have coached against them is that they are often happier without the ball,” said Jones.“They prefer to give you the ball, and then they will smash you and try and feed off your mistakes. We have to have courage to play off our own ball. We have to have confidence to carry the ball and try things. That does have to be coached. The players have to be equipped with skills to play ball-in-hand, attacking rugby. It doesn’t just happen.  
That description of the way SA play - was continued under Meyer and was never really successful.  The reason is that we had the great ball donaters playing for us - look no further than the Steyns.   In 2014 Fat Fransie set an all-time record for a backline player losing ball possession - a total of 32 in the series.
Get real and start thinking about rugby before you write any further garbage on this  site.     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Nov 2015, 09:17
#5
16 Nov 2015, 09:17#5
 
The Dumb Fcuk using his sphincter once again to voice his opinion.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Nov 2015, 12:59
#6
16 Nov 2015, 12:59#6
 CC
You will notice that big mouth Mozart is dead quiet about this one - while his constant pal shouting his mouth off about rugby - a game both he and Mozart knows nothing about.   
Problem si that for both of them playing a ball-in-hand game is a deadly sin - the whole idea centers around donkey-kicking the sh!t out of balls and hand it over to the opposition - exactly like Eddie Jones said.   They do not accept that the "kikckers they support has a distinction in inaccurate and mindless kicking - for the rest they are bloody useless.  Morne and Fransie "The Boot is all that Counts"  Steyn are their ideal two players.       
— END OF THREAD —

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