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FORUM / RUGBY /  There is no hope for the Boks.....unless

There is no hope for the Boks.....unless

Started by Mozart11 REPLIES326 VIEWS· 22 Jun 2015, 15:33
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:33
#1
22 Jun 2015, 15:33#1

....we get smart. Forget trying to duplicate the game plans of NZ and Oz. We have seen the results of that, we don't have one team in the semis. We can't run with the big Island sourced  backs. It's a physical competitive advant age....just as much as those same physical types don't seem to be able to scrum.

 

 

We have to choose a power pack, dominate the breakdown via counter rucking, dominate the scrums and use them as a source of penalties and dominate the lineouts.

 

 

We have to build a monster defence that can create a lot of breakdown ball to dominate and attack off turnover ball with a few fast backs.

 

 

We have to kick accurately from the field and to the poles.

 

 

This is someting like our strategy in 2003....which failed because Corne Krige was regularly penetrated by Jerry Collins for go forward ball.....and because our huge scrum was technically bested by Somerville and the rest of the AB pros. We cant let that happen again....the Stormers/Sharks front rows are good enough.....but it's not optional, without a dominant scrum we might as well forget it.

 

 

sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,285 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,285 posts
22 Jun 2015, 15:56
#2
22 Jun 2015, 15:56#2
 mozart
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 12122There is no hope for the Boks.....unless
June 22, 2015, 15:33:28

.Forget trying to duplicate the game plans of NZ and Oz. We have seen the results of that, we don't have one team in the semis. 


The SuperXV I just watched - most South African teams following a kick and chase game plan. (Bar the Cheetas- and to some degree the Lions)
This is hardely duplicating the game plans of NZ and Australia. If anything it is the opposite- and the SA teams have proved that only a balanced game plan will consistenly win games. Ask the Stormers who are never up to standard of the playoffs.
With the current rules of the game- the team that gets the most tries will often win.A balanced game plan is the only way forward.
New Zealand score like double the amount of tries- most from their backs.Having a balanced game with good tactical kicking and the ability to go wide when its on- is the only consistent winning formulate. This has been proven by SA teams in the SuperXV this year.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 16:01
#3
22 Jun 2015, 16:01#3

We can match the power of their backs.....look no further than the physicality of the likes of de Allende, Frans and Vorster in the midfield, Pollard at 10 and the likes of JP, Sithole, v/Wyk and Jessie Kriel out wide.......add to that the creativity of Willie.


The only way to beat the AB's is to dominate them physically which we have the players to do and match them with creativity and physicality in the backs.....the Lions have shown how it should be done in SA and that is with a team of limited stars......imagine employing that method using the best 15 players at our disposal

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2015, 16:14
#4
22 Jun 2015, 16:14#4
 There is no hope for any SA team trying to play the 2003 game plan.   First of all the rules governing the game has changed drastically and one of our problems is that we lagged behind other teams and seems to be on the wrong track in team selection.
The kicking game should never be the norm - the norm remains a varied game plan without real predictability.   It is easy to counter a one-dimensional game plan and the type of player like Morne or Francois Steyn is a dead loss in the present game.
The possibility to win tests by kicking at goal with an inherent inability to score tries is what is wrong in SA Rugby teams.   Whenever somebody mentions the need for a variation in play - the immediate response  of some members  is that we want to copy the NZ and Aussie  game plans.   That really is not an argument at all - in fact the idea of variation of play means exactly that - it does not out out kicking as an option, it does not mean mindless passing of the ball, it means playing thinking rugby by players who can read the game and take decisions - not the robots we got used to.
The story that the teams tried to play NZ and Aussie rugby in Super 15 is ridiculous - matter of fact we played anything but that game.   The game of the Stormers, Bulls and Sharks got snookered constantly because they were all playing the traditional SA game of 2003.   
Most of the comments about a power pack and deadly defense is appropriate - but to concentrate on that alone without regard to playing comprehensive rugby will let us down in every series and competition.   The key is the game aimed at the scoring of TRIES and inability to do that is suicidal.              
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 18:06
#5
22 Jun 2015, 18:06#5
 All nonsense. The S15 has never been anything like the RWC. The RWC is never won by open rugby, never has been... Never will be. The best defensive team has usually won the cup....Oz in 99, the Poms in 03... Boks in 2007.
It's a different animal, even relative to the RC. Fans will be confused by running rugby in the pool games...come the knock outs it will be as tight as a drum.

We saw in the Brumbies win, the value of dominating the breakdown....the value of having a secure lineout. The RWC is no time for boys like Stephanie, ordinary effort flanks like Coetzee, bumblers  like Reinach...athletically challenged non combatants like Steppie.

We need to find an intimidating very physical team....and play a precision game.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Jun 2015, 18:09
#6
22 Jun 2015, 18:09#6

Only problem is, the Brumbies NEVER dominated the breakdown, they exposed our little players and Mbonambi could not throw in for peanuts.......had STUFF ALL to do with the breakdown unless you can provide evidence to the contrary?


The game is on record  

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 18:37
#7
22 Jun 2015, 18:37#7
No need...the commentators were constantly remarking about our slow ball. Get real.  
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Jun 2015, 19:01
#8
22 Jun 2015, 19:01#8
 Mozart
So ten man rugby is what is needed in the WC?  And the deadly defense ion 2007 comprised four missed tackles by Steyn - you call that deadly defense?   
Then also the EC in 2003 was won by England - but tries were scored in the final by both sides and the AB's won in 2011 because they scored a try - something the French was not able to do.   
The Aussies beat us in 1999 because they manged to score tries and we tried to win by kicks.   
Even though the rugby rules changed in 2008 aimed at enhancing the game towards scoring of tries - you seem to think that those rules had no impact and the fact that we did not score a single try against the Aussies - while they scored one indicates that the Aussies adjusted their game - while we did not.
What you wrote is absolute tripe and your standard attack on certain players - while you support the worst performers is a serious reflection on your ability to understand the game of rugby.   Fact is your comments on some players are so filled with prejudice that it really is ridiculous.       
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Jun 2015, 20:31
#9
22 Jun 2015, 20:31#9

Stop lying Tokkie...the French scored a try:

 

 

New ZealandFranceTries Woodcock (14) Tries Dusautoir (47) Cons none Cons Trinh-Duc (48) Pens Donald (45) Pens none   Team
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Jun 2015, 20:44
#10
22 Jun 2015, 20:44#10
The only hope for the Boks lies in the "bent refs". No point in asking kiwis for phone numbers we are above such things 

Unidentified SA Rugby poster caught offering "rewards for results" to refs.
& the fair-minded kiwi mumbled: "There is no definitive proof it was Beeno"
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
23 Jun 2015, 08:29
#11
23 Jun 2015, 08:29#11
JW you are going to give Beens heart failure!! If we were to meet NZ in a semi or a final, I would give us a relatively good chance, simply because our style of play is suited to tight knockout test rugby. Look back at all the WC finals and you'll notice that winning teams don't play expansive rugby. That will help us, and nullify our lacking backline. Our problem will be getting that far in the tournament!  
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Jun 2015, 08:55
#12
23 Jun 2015, 08:55#12
Bluebok: Yes you are right about the type of play that wins RWCs. ABs end up trying to play their style but also try & develop ability to play less spectacular grind it out RWC style. A big ask but we will try again in this RWC. 
Boks  look in disarray as far as who to put in many positions but it is early days yet. 
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