Tony Brown a mid term assessment

I like Tony Brown, he has handled himself well. He isn’t in front of the cameras all the time and his comments have been restrained and generally on point. We have heard nothing about how things are done in NZ.

That’s all good. What’s happened on the field is less satisfying. The Boks have always had long strike capability off turnover ball. The World Cup 2019 final saw two such tries….both from turnover ball/unstructured play. One by Kolbe, one by Mapimpi.

With Kolbe, Arendse and Mapimpi we have some of the world’s great finishers. Mapimpi is not the flavor of the day but he was effective on the open field kick last Sunday.

Point is, we have always had this capability.  Where we fall short of Australia and New Zealand and more recently Ireland and France, is in structured play.

When our forwards or backs get the ball in structured play with defenses fully in place we are still satisfied with a few toothless phases and the inevitable box kick.

There are a few bright spots. Williams is very dangerous on the snipe and Esterhozen shows signs of releasing the outside backs. But honestly it’s hardly a change. More disappointingly apart from Snyman who has been an offloading wizard for years….our forwards have no running game. Three passes among the forwards is still an absolute rarity.

In part this hinges on the players…..for example we don’t have an explosive forward runner like Savea. But our players instinctively look for contact rather than space.

So at this stage, after almost a full season, I’d have to give the Brown experiment a failing grade.

Early days, more like quarter term at the end of this year, rather than half term. 
Bok backs have clearly shown intent to pass more, but they need better execution. 

At least it appears from Mpower's article, that Brown knows that there has to be far more progress to develop a Springbok style of attack.

I have also noticed that the Boks used to have a linking number 8 that could get the backs involved after some phase play or offloads by the forwards. When Vermuelen was in his 20s, he was a faster runner and was able to link well with the backs. Skinstad and Joe Van Niekerk were very good at being linking players

Very good points on the need for a linking number 8 and Hanekom  unproven at test level, but seemingly with the right tools to play this role. A player like Bobby Skinstad could ignite this team.

Extending that line of thought, making the change we would all like to see can be measured in tactics, but inevitably it also has to be reflected in the emergence of a few players who exemplify the change.

Candidates could be Hanekom, Williams, Sacha, Snyman, Esterhuizen and Fassi. A real commitment to change and taking the risks to do that will have to include some of these players.

...linking 8 should be Roos...he's almost a center anyway...and strong...our running game is miles ahead  of where we were, but is not there yet...it takes time...we still winn, but we run and pass more than last year...tries has not increased yet, but the way we gain field position has gained in the running department .

Handsome is as handsome does….Roos has not set the world on fire at test level. He certainly looked the part when he emerged two years ago. But his match against Portugal this year was a bit disconcerting. He needs to take a decisive step up….and that’s certainly not a slam dunk.

Well, after the England game, it's really hard to see any progress in our back play. Compared to the All Blacks, who created multiple opportunities against a brilliant French defense with layer upon layer of productive attack but just failed to keep their composure once the goal line came in sight, we simply look pedantic and we still choose the kick as a first choice of action. Despite all the hype around Brown's involvement, we remain rooted in the 10-man game and we have Cheslin Kolbe to make things look better every now and then when we actually manage to get the ball to him all of about twice a game.

How may times did the Ball through passing reached the wings.  if it was once it would be indeed be a surprise.    The inside ackline players saw to that and Pollard was not to blame - te prblem ere the cneters  wih Esterhuizne buggering up ttoally.  

I agreee with D ave - forget about the 30 year old Esterhuizen and think of Willemse and Modie.   but playing on the level he is at prsent De  Allende may last thrugh to 2027..  

Or better still Mozart oenly said if he ies nnot want to see he des not see it.   Experience o the past indicate eh invented iidents and lied about what happened or aother one is he describe the incident and lied about wahta ctually appened.    So comin g p wih the same BS Mozart comes up is dishonest.   l

What rugby do ou watch Mpower  - as you see it thee Bos playe no different to waht tey lyed uder Meyer nd Coetzee and even under White i 2004 to 2007.   But you should get a pair of new galsses - maybe it wil imrve your eyesght and undertanding of the game.    .     

Tony Brown has done sweet nothing to improve Bok backline play, I was hoping alongside of other Bok fans to see a difference but alas there's been nothing. The game against England was won by individual brilliance not by a Tony Brown footprint. AS a matter of fact nothing has changed in Bok backline play with regards to structure, strategy or pattern of play since Brown's introduction.... sad. The Boks don't look or play like world champions, they don't boss or impose themselves on the opposition, in most cases it's the opposition who do leaving the Boks found wanting. 

So far the Boks have made their own luck and won, there'll come a time when that luck runs out.

Ja, you have to wonder and I guess we'll never know the inner workings but no doubt Erase-miss sets the gameplan. But even so I don't see a Brown fingerprint and that's in every test the Boks have played.

Met Rassie once while he was coach at the Cheetahs.........the less said the better.

something wrong I can't connect with that link

Got it....tx.

It would be interesting to get the context for that clip. This happened a lot in the old days in US College football….old men abusing young chaps who  can’t afford to react. Woody Hayes was the poster child for that kind of coaching. His famed career ended when he punched an opposition player taunting the Ohio State bench.

It’s odd, there’s a lot I don’t like about Rassie but I never saw him as one of the changing room bullies.

I have to agree that we don't quite have the back row that can hurt teams with great breaks. Wiese is dumb muscle and hardly makes 5 meters and takes a long time and slow the ball and phase play down. 

Kwagga is the only player in that mould, but he feeds of scraps and very tenacious. Kolisi likes to sit in the tram lines and act as very slow centre that runs skew and never passes. He has had some success over the years of breaking the line and scoring tries, but not enough. Savea and Doris as well as Van Der Vlier are the backrow players that really can make a dent. Sititi is another break out player of the year with amazing runs. Roos can do that for us, but I think the bok game plan is too restrictive to help play towards his explosiveness. I also believe Hannekom can do that and we saw how dangerous he can be. His best game was earlier in the year against Leinster. He destroyed them, but his next game there after wasn't to the same level. He will need to be able to do that every weekend. 

Pierre Spies was one of those rare 8's with serious pace, however his tackling was week and he dropped the ball way to often. He didn't have that mongrel that you need sometimes. 

Duanne for me in his day was still our best 8. We had Teichman, Bobby etc. But Duane was a juggernaut with pace and could pilfer balls of the deck. Wiese is the older version of Vermeulen after he lost his pace but still had power. 

We still have 3 more seasons before the next world cup. Let's see what Rassie does next season. I think next year he'll need to back more players and take a gamble on not picking his tried and tested. I don't like losing, I hate losing, but I'm seeing Australia building up a decent team. They are hurting and they are now starting to learn how to win. 

SA was in the same boat under Coetzee, those players bounced back and got 2 world cups. 

We can't have players that only know how to win next to World Cup winners, they need to suffer and overcome 

Big Joe before he got injured was a brilliant ballcarrier

Rassie Erasmus Mad that Springboks did not keep their promise.

That sounds like a chat they had at halftime during the England RWC semi? If I recall correctly from Chasing the Sun.

Bok attacking game is looking solid. Record scores against the All Blacks and Argentina.

It does help having Sasha getting into his prime years, but the Boks look good with Libbok too.

"Brown Ball" seems to be more evident in that forwards are offloading more than they previously did.

In terms of the backs, our scores are still very much counter attacks, kick fumbles or opportunistic efforts.

ref; Ireland, where the Boks where camped on the Irish line but couldn't convert through the backs for an entire 15 minutes.

Whoosh!!!!!

Forget about Ireland...look at the wole season...and no, it wasn't all Sacha...

Based on two games….see my post where I demonstrate in contested tests we were behind our opponents in defenders beaten and clean breaks. Brown ball is the icing we put on the cake when it is beyond being spoiled.

Stick with moz!

'...linking 8 should be Roos...he's almost a center anyway...and strong...our running game is miles ahead of where we were, but is not there yet...it takes time...we still winn, but we run and pass more than last year...tries has not increased yet, but the way we gain field position has gained in the running department.'

Agreed.

Whoosh?

Oz1 - A few tries then an implosion

Oz2 - Back to stampkar skop en jaag

Arg1 - Sacha scores a record 37 points

Arg2 - Back to stampkar skop en jaag

Ab1 - Mega stampkar skop en jaag

Ab2 - Excellent attacking rugby(No DDA)

France - Great win(Reinach chip kick, maul try, Williams snipe and Sacha try)

Ireland - Game won via forward dominance

What am I missing, Draad?

"Oz1 - A few tries then an implosion I still don't get why we just imploded.

Oz2 - Back to stampkar skop en jaag

Arg1 - Sacha scores a record 37 point

Arg2 - Back to stampkar skop en jaag to close out the RC

Ab1 - Mega stampkar skop en jaag Conditions...take Willie's fck up out of the equation and it was a draw.

Ab2 - Excellent attacking rugby(No DDA) you should go talk to someone

France - Great win(Reinach chip kick, maul try, Williams snipe and Sacha try)

Ireland - Game won via forward dominance

It's called variation....in the past we didn't have Ab2, Arg1 or France..we spread the ball much more the last 2 years...and our kicks are more accurate...we are totally dominant as a result...a huge change from Faf kicking the paint off the ball 9 out of 10 times... we've been gradually expanding our game since 2019, not just since Brown got involved.

PS...just go and look at your expectations for the Bokke for 2025 vs the results...it is actually that simple.

What do my expectations have to do with anything, Draad?

"It's called variation....in the past we didn't have Ab2, Arg1 or France - What is the point of having variation when your "other" style simply makes it likely that you will lose? The ABs didn't need to play two totally different styles and neither do we. If you win in orthodox stance just fine, why switch to southpaw when all it does is weaken you and pose less of a threat to your opposition?

..we spread the ball much more the last 2 years... - Do the stats back this up?

and our kicks are more accurate - nothing to do with Brown Ball

...we are totally dominant as a result - Our dominance is a result of forward dominance. The scrum still wins us most of our games.

...a huge change from Faf kicking the paint off the ball 9 out of 10 times - Again, are you sure we kick less than we did 12 or 24 months ago?

... we've been gradually expanding our game since 2019, not just since Brown got involved - I agree, but to me, where it is the most noticeable is that our forwards have begun to offload. You'll recall the Eben has been offloading this year, something we have never seen before. Other than Sacha doing Sacha things and finally having others players at 12, I don't see that much difference in our back play.

You're welcome to prove me wrong.

"It's called variation....in the past we didn't have Ab2, Arg1 or France - What is the point of having variation when your "other" style simply makes it likely that you will lose? The ABs didn't need to play two totally different styles and neither do we. If you win in orthodox stance just fine, why switch to southpaw when all it does is weaken you and pose less of a threat to your opposition?"

Are you deliberately ignoring the playing conditions?