AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:14#2
There's a lot less passengers than people are making out, some may not be match winners but they won't let the shirt down
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:20#3
My contention is there is no match winner who has been left out....and all the players that supposedly have been hard done by have had many chances.
All our best players, the tough guys, are in the squad...with a few passengers like Kolisi, Kirchner and Stephanie.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:22#4
What crap go check out twitter and Facebook.....no - one rates the squad
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:27#5
I tend to disagree regarding PSDT, injuries aside he's a big asset, and he covers 7 and 5, which is useful.
In terms of match winners outside the squad, I would have liked a wild card pick like Senatla to excite fans. 14 is the one position I'm not happy with, I just think JP offers too little in attack and Mvovo blows hot and cold. I would have liked to see Hougaard there for his tenacity and defence, and decent on attack.
Do I think there's a match winning 23 in the squad? Absolutely. Will Meyer get it right? we shall see.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:30#6
Face Book and Twitter are packed with morons.
I agree with most of what you say Deddy....Stephanie is not hard enough yet.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:39#7
Nope Facebook and Twitter represent the voice of the supporters - a million fold more than your worthless survey above.
The squad is an insult to Bok rugby
AGAgPleezDeddy
Club Pro900 posts
AGAgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
29 Aug 2015, 01:49#8
Meyer by nature is more conservative, he's tried to fit this somewhat with a few picks such as PSDT, Lood, Kriel, De Allende
But he's also stuck with his guns in picking some of the older guys like Burger, Jannie, etc
At least it's a mix, albeit he had his hand forced in a couple occasions with Fourie and Botha retiring.
Some pragmatism in a world cup is useful, and when we're in the pressure cooker it's where the old guard and experience will help.
Unfortunately his conservatism may have also meant he missed some good players such as Jaco Kriel, Kitshoff, Faf De Klerk, Willemse.
At least it's not this 1. Steenkamp 2. Bizzy. 3. Jannie 4. Bakkies 5. Matfield 6. Louw 7. Smith 8. Spies
And equally at least it's not this 1. Coenie 2. Marx 3. Koch. 4. Lood. 5. Etzebeth. 6. Kriel 7. JDP 8. Whiteley
What we've got is a mixture, perhaps leading too far towards the safe options BUT it could have been a lot worse.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 03:36#9
This squad has an element about so-called experience that is awry - experience is fine, but then experience must be seen to be associated with performance as well. I am afraid that that too many of the experienced players are habitual match-losers. Lets look at the squad and see why I state that:-
Forwards: Willem Alberts, Schalk Brits, Schalk Burger, Lood de Jager, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Eben Etzebeth, Siya Kolisi, Francois Louw, Frans Malherbe, Victor Matfield (vice-captain), Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen, Adriaan Strauss, Duane VermeulenBacks: Jean de Villiers (captain), Damian de Allende, Fourie du Preez, Bryan Habana, Zane Kirchner, Jesse Kriel, Pat Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, Rudy Paige, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Handre Pollard, Morne Steyn
The highlighted players were involved in the 2011 WC campaign disaster. Counting those 15 of the 31 players were in the 2011 WC squad and we all know that the Springboks went out of that WC in the quarterfinal after near disastrous performances in the round robin stage (beating Wales by 1 point and Samoa by 6 points).
There are way too many passengers in the team and in that case we have to look at three categories of players:-
The habitual under-performers
Willem Alberts, Jannie du Plessis, Victor Matfield, Zane Kirchner, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Morne Steyn
Please note that all of the above has been in the 2011 WC squad and some have been showing zilch for years - while others have been deteriorating in performances at an alarming rate over the past two years.
Willem Alberts - Did not have a decent performance record for three years on any level. A low-activity player bringing zilch to the game. He played in four matches since June 2014 and his performance in three of those were poor and the fourth one barely average.
Jannie du Plessis - His scrumming was poor over the last two years and barely average in the tests this year - brings nothing to the game outside of scrumming. Getting penalized far too often.
Victor Matfield - Since his return to Springbok rugby the Springboks performance record has deteriorated massively - the reason being is malfunctioning of their Tight 5. Matfield brings zero to Tight 5 play and is in fact a major contributor to the obvious Tight 5 deterioration.
Zane Kirchner - Was always a sub-par player with a serious deficiency in reading of the game. He never is in the position where he should be in defensive play and he is consequently a defensive disaster - while bringing zero to attacking play.
Ruan Pienaar - Slow and predictable - a real handicap in the tests this year. Poor kicking accuracy made worse by too many aimless kicks in the tests he played in this year. Defense this year was a real disaster.
JP Pietersen - Was poor over the last two years as a result of loss of pace and a deficient work ethic - he never looks for work and is happy to stand around on the wing. His Japan Club Contract seriously damaged his performances.
Morne Steyn - The habitual bench player of Stade Francais who only makes the match day 15 when Plisson is not available. Outside of kicking at goal he is noted for poor decisionmaking and execution. He was a disaster in the 2012 tests and dropped from the team by Meyer as a result. His record last year was even worse - he was dropped from the team twice in 2014 and was primarily responsible for the Perth Test debacle in 2014 - the last test he played in. His defence is putrid with a missed tackle ratio approaching 50%.
The matchless or match - deficient players
Here we have the following:-
Willem Alberts, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Francois Louw, Coenie Oosthuizen, Duane Vermeulen, Jean de Villiers, Fourie du Preez.
Willem Alberts - played in 4 matches since June 2014 - 3 poor performances and one barely average.
Pieter-Steph Du Toit - he was very good in Super 15 in 2015 before his latest injury and since then played in a game for the Sharks where he did well and was excellent when he came on in the latest Argentina test when he replaced Alberts, who was shown up badly by Du Toit.
Francois Louw - Was injured in the AB test last year and off for the rest of the year and only started playing for his club in February 2015. Since then he was frequently out with injury and he has played in only one test in the 2015 RC when he was injured again.
Coenie Oosthuizen - Have had serious neck injury problems over the last three years and underwent a couple of operations. The latest injury was in April 2015. He was operated on and has not played a single match since then. When fit he is normally a hard worker - but is he match-fit at this stage? Highly unlikely
Duane Vermeulen - One of the best no 8's in world rugby - but has not played since he was injured 4 months ago. Can be relied on to produce the goods - so no problem here.
Jean de Villiers - After an excellent performance year in 2013 - he was very average in 2014 until his horrific injury in November last year against Wales. He played in the World team match in June and was seriously deficient in that game. He was then sent to play in a few pre-season CC games for Western Province and was barely average. Came back for the Argentina test in Durban and was a square peg in a round hole - breaking his jaw in the process and was laid off for another 4 to 6 weeks.
Fourie du Preez - After two very average performances in tests in June 2014 - he was injured in June 2014 in the test against Scotland. Other than a few club games in Japan in January and February 2015 (the last one on 25 February 2015) he has played no rugby since June 2014. He went back to Japan for pre-season training and got injured again. Recent photos showed a rather over-weight player and there are serious evidence that he is not match-fit at all.
The age issue
In a TV discussion this week Hugh Bladen said that too many of the players are over the hill insofar as performance is concerned and that for that reason we are not going to be successful this year in the WC. So lets look at that issue objectively:-
Willem Alberts - 32 Schalk Brits - 33Schalk Burger - 32Bismarck du Plessis - 32Jannie du Plessis - 33Francois Louw, - 30Victor Matfield - 38Tendai Mtawarira - 30Jean de Villiers - 34Fourie du Preez - 33Bryan Habana - 33Zane Kirchner - 32Ruan Pienaar - 32Morne Steyn - 32
14 of the players are 30 years or older - in other words a situation recognized as a period where performances of players are deteriorating. No wonder Hugh Bladen was horrified by the situation.
CONCLUSION
The above indicates that we are in serious trouble in this case and that Meyer did not plan and built up a squad for the upcoming WC. He in 2012 penned in the names of players he was to select for the WC squad in 2015 and only brought in new players when absolutely forced to do so. The result is that the squad has too many players with very little test experience - another negative in any WC campaign.
Lucky for fans three of Meyer's 2012 determined favourites opted out of international rugby - otherwise we would have had 17 players over the age of 30 in that squad.
Bearing in mind the three factors mentioned above - I do believe the team selected by Meyer does not represent the best players in SA and that as a result the Springboks are going to come short in the upcoming tournament.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 04:07#10
The poll results are as follows on News 24 thus far:-
Spot on = 300 votes = 7% One or two strange selections - but cannot complain = 2238 votes = 57% My word - What was Heyneke thinking = 1438 votes = 35%
In essence a very small percentage (7 %) think that the team selection is correct - the rest has some reservations or major problems with it.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Aug 2015, 04:38#11
Totally consistent. ..1451 votes cast....923 or 64 per cent in the boat.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 04:53#12
143 in the boat - the rest have reservations or serious problems with the team. You can look at it any way you want to - but reality will creep in over the next two weeks and as things get clearer - the majority of people are going to be finding the selections seriously problematic.
Somebody is going to do the same evaluation as I have done above and once that hits the media - the figures are going to swing against Meyer.
29 Aug 2015, 08:53#14
Well at least Mozart's happy.
He now has his team of elderly hasbeens ... I'm sure they'll do him proud at the WC and bring the trophy home ... just as he's been telling us.
After all ... the team is filled with match winners. None have been left behind.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Aug 2015, 09:03#15
I'm looking forward to Moz s excuse when we bomb out early....no doubt it will be de Allende, Kriel, Lambie, Malherbe, Lood, PSDT or Kolisi s fault
Moz knows how to back a loser. 5 wins from the past 13 matches against major oposition and down to 5th a few weeks back.
Good one Moz, you and Meyer know your stuff......bwhaaahaaaaa
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Aug 2015, 14:19#16
Mozart
You are part of a very small minority that endorses the team outright. 300 or 7% of the total number of near to 4 000 people participating in the poll. Unfortunately Meyer was lucky - if the poll said 5 or 6 strange selections. The outcome would have been the same. Most people have strong reservations about more than 1-2 players in the squad - but they satisfied themselves by taking the middle road.