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FORUM / RUGBY /  Unexpected factors contributing to our loss.

Unexpected factors contributing to our loss.

Started by Mozart18 REPLIES205 VIEWS· 26 Jul 2015, 13:28
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2015, 13:28
#1
26 Jul 2015, 13:28#1

The Boks have always been fine goal kickers, lineout kings, great kick chasers and solid defensively. But at times our scrum has creaked, we have been blunt on attack and we have been outplayed on the deck.

 

 

Yesterday was almost a complete reversal of that pattern. Pollard did actually kick very well, a fact that has largely been ignored, but is hugely encouraging. For the rest up was down.

 

 

We fixed our problems on the deck with the addition of Brussouw for Coetzee and some good fetching from the backs and Bismarck. Our scrum had a good edge over the ABs through the whole game with strong scrumming from the maligned Jannie. And our backs, Kriel in particular were incisive.

 

The problem areas were defence with another unconvincing defensive display by our young midfield. Our kick chase was pretty awful, only Habana  was able to create some pressure and then only once Much has been said about poor kicking, but where is the chase....even at kickoff time we looked disengaged in the chase.

 

 

Still the phase that let us down the most was the lineouts. not only did we lose three on our own throw and pilfer none on NZ's ball.....but we conceded a try directly from the lineout. There seems to be no lineout strategy this year.....why not drop Lood deep on opposition throw to take away the long throw and have Eben jump early at the front? Rea d's aerial dominance over Schalk hurt us with a lost lineout and AB quick ball.

 

 

Our maul, another strength, also failed to deliver the goods yesterday.

 

 

Recover our traditional strengths and we should be formidable.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jul 2015, 13:32
#2
26 Jul 2015, 13:32#2
Well, when Victor is on the field, we are prepared for these things and are on the front foot in the lineout and our mauling is more cohesive.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2015, 13:35
#3
26 Jul 2015, 13:35#3
 The absence of a lineout leader and a defensive captain hurts us. I know fans don't rate those sorts of activities.....but the Kuridrani  and McCaw tries were the direct result of disorganization in those two aspects.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jul 2015, 13:37
#4
26 Jul 2015, 13:37#4
 I think Flip would have been a better option to Lood.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jul 2015, 13:58
#5
26 Jul 2015, 13:58#5
 Mozart
In the main there are interesting points raised although in some respects there could be factual differences.  
I think our scrumming was adequate - nothing special at all.  The problem was in fact the injuries to Jannie du Plessis and Vincent Koch - both likely concussion problems - took the scrumming out of the picture during a crucial part of the game.
Insofar as line-outs are concerned - I have always said that the absence of another line-out option will be a problem.  Burger - as good he is in other phases of the game - is not a good enough line-out option.  Vermeulen is to my mind better.   Another thing is that Bismarck must make sure that not even 1 line-out throw misses the target.  
Insofar as problems on the deck is concerned I do not think they were really fixed as yet.  Louw has been disappointing in both games he played in and did not do his part in that component of the game.  A loosie combination of Vermeulen at 8, Coetzee at 7 and Brussow or Kriel at 6 will fix that problem.  Burger can then be on the bench as an impact player.
I agree that the defense problem in the midfield needs to be solved.   The problem yesterday was with Kriel - not De Allende.   I would say that the performance of De Allende in the inside center position was superior to what any other center produced in that position since 2012 and that is a very encouraging sign.
Yes there are negatives that needs to be fixed - but the question is how do we fix those.  We cannot afford to reduce our Tight 5 capacity by making irresponsible selections.  We can strengthen our deck play - Louw was a weak link yesterday.  Vermeulen is stronger in that aspect of the game than Burger.  They should look and continue to improve the defense in the midfield - the only improvement could be De Villiers if he is available.   For the rest it is not necessary to make personnel changes.           
        
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jul 2015, 14:03
#6
26 Jul 2015, 14:03#6
"I would say that the performance of De Allende in the inside center position was superior to what any other center produced in that position since 2012 and that is a very encouraging sign."

LMAO!!!! You made your very first good rugby point on the loose trio and ruined it with this!! However, you are correct, Louw is better at the breakdown than Burger. So too Duane. So the question is this: Is Burgers link play and tackle count worth more than Duanes power and breakdown prowess? Not an easy question. It depends on what Schalk would be linking to.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jul 2015, 14:18
#7
26 Jul 2015, 14:18#7
Disaster
The inside centers since 2012 hs been the following:-
Francois SteynWynand OlivierJean de VilliersJan SerfonteinDamian de Allende
Now the question is - in which game did any of them put up a better performance than De Allende did yesterday?  Please feel free to motivate your response properly and not use your standard BS.

   

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jul 2015, 14:24
#8
26 Jul 2015, 14:24#8
Serfontein, Jean, Frans all put up better performances. Heck, even Oliviers England test in 2012 was better! My posts are always properly motivated and lazer guided in precision. Too bad my critics aren't game enough to at least make it interesting for me. Damian is the JJ of 12s.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jul 2015, 15:29
#9
26 Jul 2015, 15:29#9
 I ask for facts - not daydreams and lies.  Fransie was pathetic in all the tests he played in in 2012 - he did squat in any of the matches and was so unfit when he made relieving kicks, it was rolling on the grass because his stomach was in the way and he could not see his feet when he made kicks. .  Hopelessly overweight - slow and obviously unfit - that was Fransie.  Minimal line breaks and defenders beaten and poor in defense.   Absolutely useless in all five matches played.
Olivier played in one test - drawn against England.  He did squat in that game as well 
Serfontein was much better than Steyn  and Olivier - but he did not once make a performance equalling DE Allende's one of yesterday.
De Villiers had some good games and he comes nearer to the level achieved by DE Villiers in the Ellis Park test in 2013 and in other tests that year - was not up to the same standard in 2014.
Your comments is so far away from being realistic - it is a shame you show your rugby ignorance on this site.   THat makes for good jokes on the site - not serious rugby comments.  Anybody claiming that Morne Steyn and Francois Steyn are international level players must be a comedian - he cannot be serious.  
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
26 Jul 2015, 19:09
#10
26 Jul 2015, 19:09#10
 This test was lost by team management making a poor call in not letting Kock return after his blood replacement.
Other than that the guys played their hearts out and put everything on the line.
But once again NZ out smarted the Boks when and where it matters.......ON THE FIELD OF PLAY.
Well their is always next year, as 2015 will soon be history.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jul 2015, 19:44
#11
26 Jul 2015, 19:44#11
 YEP IT WAS SO CONVINCING EH AJ. HOW ABOUT THE LOOD TRY. HOW CLOSE WAS THAT FOR ONE (think back to the late oz try) OR HOW ABOUT THE HABANA PENALTY. OR HOW ABOUT THREE CONSECUTIVE RED ZONE INFRINGMENTS BY THE ABS TO STOP THE BOKS SCORING.. OR HOW ABOUT ALL THE INJURIES THAT HAPPENED. OR HOW ABOUT THE INJURED PLAYERS WHO COULDNT BE SELECTED.
SEEMS YOU ARE ABLE TO READ A SCOREBOARD BUT LITTLE ELSE. 




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jul 2015, 19:47
#12
26 Jul 2015, 19:47#12
 Nothing wrong with our lineout while Eben and Lood were going. Vermuelen is very good at the back of the lineout so neither is that a problem.
What is certian is that Meyer if he thinks clearly has every chance of having a great side.
Brussouw played his heart out but I think M arcell adds more. Great player. Marcell, Burger and Vermuelen are the loose trio.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jul 2015, 21:13
#13
26 Jul 2015, 21:13#13
Rubbish Brussouw effected no more turnovers than Coetzee has.....our midfield defence was better than their AB counterparts.
Our scrum has been good for sometime....the only time it has suffered has been with the introduction of past it Steenkamp and never been Heinke v/d Merwe.
The physicality of de Allende  was huge as was the creativity of Kriel and Willie. Pollard also asked plenty of questions with ball in hand.
In the forwards the physicality of Lood was a vast improvement on useless Matfield 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jul 2015, 21:19
#14
26 Jul 2015, 21:19#14
 We had 2009 and 2013 as good scrum years. From the late 90s until now, South Africa has been a very substandard scrumming nation.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2015, 21:23
#15
26 Jul 2015, 21:23#15
Rubbish.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jul 2015, 21:29
#16
26 Jul 2015, 21:29#16
 Agreed Moz your take is just that
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2015, 22:47
#17
26 Jul 2015, 22:47#17
Ooh ....eina!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jul 2015, 22:59
#18
26 Jul 2015, 22:59#18
 Dave
Mozart made a great noise about the scrumming of Jannie during the last two tests.   He ignored the fact that in the time Jannie was on the field of play - the scrums were basically static/stable.   Maybe it was seemed to be an improvement on last year - when the scrumming was in disarray - especially against the Argentinians.  
He also ignored the fact that the scrumming improved drastically when Matfield went off last week.
Those are plain facts that he refuses to admit - so his arguments are basically based on prejudiced and full scale rubbish.  He would never admit the truth when it comes to those two players.        
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jul 2015, 23:26
#19
26 Jul 2015, 23:26#19
Fact is, any half decent tighthead would be pretty solid if he has Bismark and Beast up front with him plus Lood and Etzebeth behind you.
Jannie has been solid, but fact is Malherbe was even better in his first scrum against Oz when he replaced Jannie......Malherbe combined with Beast and Bismark is better than the Jannie, Bismark and Beast combo
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