Victor makes the TOW......

....embarrassing his biased critics like Moronic  who steadfastly ignore what he does for the Bools. He is a TOW member based on his playing contributions. Throw in his shrewd leadership and it's a no ...er....brainer.

 

5 - Victor Matfield (Bulls): The old maestro pulls out some outstanding performances when they are required. His line-out work is obviously top-draw, but he is also busy around the park.

Bubbling under: James Broadhurst (Hurricanes) 

 I'm not in the 'Matfield for World Cup Camp' but it was a good performance from him, it's good to see him do well.

APD....Oz had Eales, Poms had Johnson, we had Victor.....NZ had Brad Thorn. WC winners have typically had a very experienced lock....providing leadership. Matfield was tested against Steph du Toit and was the winner in most experts' view.....his leadership and smarts come as a bonus.

As shown in my Matfield vs England video, he does alot more around the field than he has ever been given credit. Rugby fans largely cannot interpret what they see and rely on flawed perceptions from the media. Without Matfield we would have lost that crucial test. His leadership and experience is obviously important, but he remains a vastly more intelligent person than any other SA lock. This brings me to Schalk, he is a very cerebral player now, much more so than in his physical prime. That combined with his superb hands and linking play make him a good option to have on hand. We went to the 2003 World Cup with little experience. The four years prior we selected on "form" which left us with a team that had never featured the same starting XV in four years. This is a recipe for failure. 

Spot on.  

 After watching the game a second time last night - I found that Matfield was moonlighting in the backline and whenever he got to a breakdown situation, he gave away a penalty.  That was evident from his stats as well - it ended up that he ghave away 3 penalties.
He was in fact piss-poor in any for of Tight 5 play and got pushed out of the mauls - which he joined from the back and then add no push since he was just hanging on to the mauls. 
The classical way was when he landed on the grass on his backside when he tied to tackle Mnisi.
This is a example why the so-called TOW is an abortion.   The man was not fulfilling his basic functions as a lock - other than taking a surprising number of 4 line out balls on own-throw and one on opposition throw-in.   I say surprising - because it was becoming routine for him to take less line-outs in games.
If this man is in the WC squad - we can write off whatever chance we have in that tournament.     We cannot compete with a Tight 4 against other teams Tight 5's.   What is going to happen then would be a repeat of last years disastrous EOYT - where opposing teams took full advantage of the Tight 4 situation we found ourselves in.        

Well he will be in the WC squad if he isn't injured. In fact he will be our captain, because sadly Jean won't make it back.....and we need his astute summing up of the match tactics, his supreme lineout work, his agile tackling and his great hands on kickoffs and in phase play.

I'm delighted to make the announcement.

It was a average performance that is not really worth looking at again. Don't fall for the hype and look at the bigger picture.

Im not prejudice towards old players but Matfeild is not a top notch competitor and never has been, he's by far the most overrated lock of all time, it goes without saying. Ali Williams is very much the same type of lock, they rarely have a game that gets people excited. Matfeild doesn't have the quality to compete with the likes of Courtney Lawes, Broadhurst and Joe Launchbury, they are too dominate on the feild. 

When looking at the aspect of line out play why do some presume that Matfeild is the only lock in SA that is great in that area of the game? It's nonsense, SA does  have a new generation of locks who are just as good at line outs and is better around the feild with ball in hand. Matfeild's defence is fine when players run directly straight into him although when players run of different angles Matfeild's defence is very poor because his reactions and speed is too slow, I've seen that many times and it's not one of those liabilities that a team would want going into a RWC.  

There is a few players including Matfeild who failed to make a good contribution on the feild in the EOYT matches last year which is part of the reason why the boks lost to Ireland and Wales last year. Would you want the team to go through the same road this year with players who are not good enough? 

You don't think he was the MOM in the WC final?  

 That was 8 years ago and not based on present performances.   What is clear is that all the jargon you produced about Matfield is based on utter BS.  The man is going to be a disaster in the WC and will cause our early demise in that tournament should he be involved.   Opposition quality locks nowadays play the fool with Matfield and that is a fact.       

That's your opinion and you are entitled to cling to it, even when the facts are opposed.  

 That he gave away 3 penalties is not true?   There are no facts opposed to what I said.  He was poor in the rest of the game as well.  

Hooper had 3 penalties for the Tahs last weekend...are you suggesting he shouldn't play for Oz.  Can you see how stupid that line of reasoning is?

Give me a fact that shows Matfield isn't what many experts think he is.

 Hooper is an international quality loosie - he can be subject to penalties as he is one of the most industrious loosies in world rugby.  Matfield is a liability as a lock - in fact he just fill up the team-sheet as a lock.   The way he gives away  penalties has nothing to do with being an industrious lock and everything to do with his physical d eficiency when in competitive situations.  
There is no way that your assumption is in any way logical.  Hooper is definitely a test class loosie - Matfield is definitely a lock liability even on lower level than test rugby.         

It wouldnt surprise me if victor made TOW even if he wasnt playing such is the level of groupies worship. I felt his backline play, where he spent so much time playing, was really mundane. He received the ball and passed it. That though was of course enough to send his groupies into extasy.Victor has been without doubt the biggest disaster to hit Bok rugby over the last decade. He reduced our tight 5 to a tight 4 and is unquestionably the pappest "lock" ever to play internationla rugby, Super 15 rugby and Currie cup. Name  me a weaker player.
His try saving tackle in that wolrd cup was becasue of his moonlighting in the backline. It had to pay off sometime. In the immortal words of that great lock Bakkies who carried wee victor  - "victor doesnt always play in the backline". Bwahahhahahahahahaha so many were conned by thsi very good con  artist.
Away with wee matfiled - dump him now Meyer bring in the likes of the brilliant Steph Du Toit etc.Beeno proudly anti wee Matfield- as a player of course

 Bakkies was right - there are scrums and line-outs where he had to be involved - when he was not in the backline.   He rarely entered mauls and when he did it routinely led to penalties.
The problem is that as often as he could potentially be an overlap in the backlines - so often he buggered up backline moves.   It irritated the hell out of me when he took up the inside center position and routinely buggered up potential backline moves.  Matfield as a matter of fact was attacking coach for the Bulls before his return to playing - and the Bulls backline was a disaster as a result.
At present Matfield's presence in any team is a recipe for disaster and the reputation idiots fall for him bigtime.       

"It had to pay off sometime. In the immortal words of that great lock Bakkies who carried wee victor  - "victor doesnt always play in the backline". Bwahahhahahahahahaha so many were conned by thsi very good con  artist."
After all these years you still do not get Bakkies' sense of humour. Can you remember what he said about Brad Thorn after he retired from international rugby? Yep. He said: "I will actually miss the old bugger". ( I assume that you believe that he is serious when he blows kisses to other players during games as well.
"Bakkies was right - there are scrums and line-outs where he had to be involved - when he was not in the backline.   He rarely entered mauls and when he did it routinely led to penalties.
The problem is that as often as he could potentially be an overlap in the backlines - so often he buggered up backline moves.   It irritated the hell out of me when he took up the inside center position and routinely buggered up potential backline moves."
This from same person who has the nerve of saying that others lie about players to suit their own agendas.

 Matfield is more moonlighting in the backline than he is where a lock should be - the latest is what happened on Saturday.  That is not a lie - it is a fact and it has been the same ever since he became the Springbok lock.
There is a difference between humour and serious discussion.  In this case Botha was serious about Matfield since he is rarely in the engine room where a Tight 5 player should be - and genuine rugby lovers realize that.
It is only dunc es who do not want to see with their own eyes what is going on and then cover for a physically-deficient player as if their lives depend on it.         

 Jaaaaa ou Maaikie. You would lie through your teeth rather than admit when one of your pet-hates has a good game. It must be sad to be dragging along so much hatred with you.

What a bloody joke, what the FUCK did useless Vic do to merit selection.....he did absolutely squat  

 Ceradyne
I hate no players - I am at least honest when they perform and do not perform.  That is the difference between you and me.

 I would rather not make the Pope joke again. It brings out the lowlife s c u m b a g in you. 

 Mozart
The rugby experts referred to by you are rugby writers and not experts in the game.  When Ollie le Roux and other actual players criticize the presence of Matfield in teams - you attacked them for a variety of BS reasons.   I would rather believe actual players than the rugby journalists who never played any professional rugby in their lives.      

Moz and Ceradyne, I understand that experience is important but I believe that the experience is there without taking Matfield as one of the playing staff, for instance if we compare what my squad will be to the 2007 squad we'll see there's not too much difference in terms of experience:
 (Caps before world cup in brackets)
Hookers:

2007: 
Gary Botha (9)Bizzy (2)John Smit (67)

2015: 

Bizzy (70)
Strauss (44)
Akker V/d Merwe or Ntubeni (0)


Props:

2007:
BJ Botha (10)Jannie (2)
Os (72)
Guthro (11)
CJ Van der Linde (39)

2015:

Beast (64)
Trevor Nyakane (13)
Coenie (21)
Kitshoff (0)
Jannie, maybe (62)
Locks:

2007:

Matfield (58)
Bakkies (35)
Muller (16)
Van Der Berg (46)

2015:

Etzebeth (33)
Flip (35)
Willemse (0)
PSDT (2)

Loosies:

2007:

Schalk (31)
Smith (32)
Van Heerden (7)

2015: 

Schalk (75)
Louw (34)
Coetzee (26)

Number 8:

2007:

Roussow (24)
Skinstad (38)

2015:

Vermeulen (29)
Whiteley (2)

Scrum Half

2007:

Fourie Du Preez (30)
Januarie (18)
Ruan Piennar (12)

2015:

Fourie Du Preez (70)
Cobus Reinach (6)

Fly Half 

2007:
James (18)
Pretorious (24)

2015:

Pollard (9)
Lambie (40)
-Position up for grabs-

Centre

2007: 

De Villiers (31)
Fourie (29)Julies (10)Olivier (17)
Frans Steyn (8)
2015:

De Allende (3)
Serfontein (20)
Frans Steyn (53)
-position up for grabs, maybe JDV if he recovers-

Wing 
2007:
Habana(27)
Ndungane (8)
JP (6)
Willemse (16)

2015:

Habana (106)
JP (59)
Hougaard (35) / also can play scrum half

Full Back

2007:

Percy (85)

2015:

Willie (25)
Kriel (0)

This is just a rough squad for 2015 and there may be some holes in it but it's more or less what I would go with.

Caps 2007: 838
Caps 2015: 936

So in terms of caps and experience the squad I picked is very experienced.
Not to mention that a few players will pick up more caps before the RWC and I've left a couple of squad places blank at the moment.

Like I said, I think that a good mix of youth, and experience is what we need and I think my squad is that. 

I believe Matfield should travel as an adviser to the squad but not as a player.

Would be happy to know what you think of my squad and what changes you'd make.

 APD, I like your squad. You are thin on 3's. Either Koch or Malherbe will do. ATM I prefer Koch. If i have to leave out one of yours it would be Coenie, but I would rather take 6 props. Faf in at 9.  Fransie burned his bridges, but we are actually thin at 13, so drop him and take your pick from the poor lot of 13's . No actual contenders (I would reluctantly pick De Jogh). JP is done at wing, we have better. Take your pick, but I would rather go for Hendrcks.

Yeah, there's some holes in my squad Draad, I was just quickly putting it all together. I wouldn't mind either Kock Or Malherbe.

The 13 situation is the one I'm most worried about, there's no-one who jumps out at me, maybe throw Kriel in at the deep end but that's risky. 

What do you think about a wild card wing pick for the world cup, someone like Senatla, I'd imagine he's rip apart the lower nations but it's not ideal against the bigger nations.

 It would probably be either Hendricks or Mvovu. I would like Sanatla to be given a chance in the RC at least, but without SR game time it would be a wild card indeed. But he is definitely worthy of a look, no less than Hendricks was when he got a shot and a better option than JP IMO.

I'm really not a big fan of Mvovo, he's all speed really, I like Hendricks, excellent finisher and one of the best steppers in SA. Defence leaves a bit to be desired but that can be overlooked. Another we should look at is Ruan Combrinck. 

I thi nk first choice wings should be Habana and Hougaard definitely. 

 I am also no Mvovu fan and agree on Hendricks's defence issues. Ruan Combrinck is a excellent prospect, but it counts against him that he is not BEE, same for Hougie, but at least he has some Bok XP. Sad to mention it, but unfortunately these things will always be an issue in SA sports.

 Interesting  comparison Deddy. My impression is the 2007 team was more ready than the numbers suggest...many of those players were in the team that won the 2004 TN. Still you make a good point, we have a lot of seasoned players.

I worry about 14, 13, 9 particularly, 3 always and 7.

 In saying that Moz, I've just learned that Flip has made himself unavailable for the World Cup.That messes up my squad, as I was taking Etzebeth and Flip as my more experienced options, and I don't believe you can go to a world cup with only one experienced lock. 
I don't know how Bekker is doing, but that's an option. And now, I think Victor is more of an option than I first thought.

 Moz, agreed but 7 is a lesser concern for me. I think we have enough players for 6,7 and 8 but the balance must be fine-tuned. We should have been sorted at 9, but sadly we wasted too much opportunity at 9 by playing Hougie and Pienaar. by now any 2 of Faf, Sarel and Vermaak should have been in the picture by now.

Deddy I am surprised Matfield is still in the mix. But he clearly is if what happens on the field counts. Would I rather start a WC knockout match with Victor or one of Stephanie or Lewies? Give me Victor any day.....even if he is slightly diminished.
The captaincy issue will be part of this. I fear Jean is gone...so it lies between Victor, Schalk, Strauss or Vermeulen.
 Draad prefers Vermeulen, but while he is respected I haven't seen a lot more than that tactically. Schalk could be the man, but perhaps that will be a burden too far and it's not totally clear he will be the first choice 7.
Strauss has always looked like a future Bok captain, but probably after the RWC.

Which leaves Victor. Just watching the games the Bools appear more purposeful when he is on the field and he appears to provide a lot of direction. Last year their results were better when Victor played. This year seems to be trending in the same way....still within the margin of error but the Bools have won 67% with Victor, 60% without.
So until I see one of these young locks outplaying him...Matfield remains one of my four locks...along with Willemse and Etzebeth. The fourth is to be decided.
 

 Victor and Schalla tend to get upset and unsettled when the reff is a "problem" in ther opinion. When Victor's shoulders drop when talking too the reff, all goes downhill.  Same with Scalla. My money is on Thor, even if Jean makes it.

Um last I checked the Bulls lost their last game with big Vic on the park??  

I loved how Matfield was blamed for our scrumming problems only for the same issues to exacerbate when he wasn't there! So much for the tight four! 

 
Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 12246RE: Victor makes the TOW......
May 06, 2015, 10:28:28Um last I checked the Bulls lost their last game with big Vic on the park?? 

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 This is Saffex you are talking to, so something more appropriate...

Ha ha  

 Ceradunce
For Heavens sake - stop your idiotic way of quoting members.   It disrupts the margins of the postings.