Watching the Welsh semi again....

Speaking about that soft Welsh try....look no further than Dud Toit.

I still put that try down to Am misreading the situation and shooting onto the scrummie while Steph would have had him 5m out. Yellow shows the likely contact area had Williams challenged Steph's tackle. The worst I think you can say is that Steph being a bit slow off the scrum may have created a flash of doubt in Am's mind, but he still made a rare wrong read here and that is what opened it up for Wales outside.

So Mozart was again caught out lying about the Du Toit issue in the Welsh test - as well as lying insofar as Steyn's test career (49 tests)  theory  is concerned.   Why did his rugby profile indicated he played in 67 tests - both starting and replacing games included?    How come according to his list Steyn played in only 22 tests out of the 48 tests played in the period 2008 to 2011.   I am afraid his list is incomplete - he even has Steyn playing in 49 tests - while his list refers to 52 tests.   As far as I know - other than in WC years there are November tour games each year,   There were in 2008 to 2010  9 such tests and according to Mozart Steyn played in NONE of those.    Was that possible?   Try again BSter,      

He said I must stop digging - I certainly will if he stops lying about issues,    His so-called "theories" are total BS - even the Pakie photo proved it.  

As to always lying and using the term "theory" is laughable.   He will continue to do so - he has been using "theories"  for years now.   What is amazing - his theories are always concerning certain players that is preventing his favourites from getting  into the Springbok team.

He made himself look like a total fraud writing about the "narrow game plan" of Erasmus and his constant attacks on Erasmus from the day he was appointed,   He obviously wanted White as Head Coach and his arguments tumbled down all along.    His forecast of a 2019 WC  disaster and now of future disasters is laughable.   His praising of Meyer as coach is continuing despite the effective firing of Meyer for incompetence by Stade Francais,   Accoriding to him and AO Meyer had a wonderful game plan - which most people never saw happening in fact.   

Happy Idiots Day - Mozart.                  

Mozart

You messed up again.   Steyn played in all 9 EOYT games in 2008,2009 and 2010 and on the following matches:-

2008   -   Wales, Scotland and England - on the bench in all three games and hi s performance was below par in all three tests

2009   -  Ireland, Italy and France - started all three tests at flyhalf, but was a rank failure in all three tests

2010   -   Ireland, Wales and Scotland - started in all three games - produced zero of note,

The 52 tests you listed plus the above 9 took the games up to 61 - there must be 6 other games you must have missed out on,    Remember the following sentence:-

"Keep digging Wanker you ineffably dumb man.....here you are.....everything just as I reported. As always!!!!"

Seems to me you should apologize for the above remark.   I am not digging - I just find your foul-ups and distortions.        

Wankermike follow the bouncing ball....paste the bits where I supposedly said Frans played 47 tests. And count the number of tests listed above.....that's right 67 tests.

As usual you and Dave had it wrong and now you are going the lie through your teeth bit. You both thought Frans' scoring record wasn't better than Dud's....but both of you missed the fact that 40% of Frans' games were off the bench. 

And Wnker you disgusting man, point out one of those facts about Frans that's wrong.....but don't quote me, you lie....cut and paste.

No use lying again - your original list had 52 games and ZERO November tests.  You now got top 67 tests I originally said he played in, so what else is new - you lied and got caught out again.    That is what you are - a habitual liar and distorter,

Other questions I asked you - 

*   How many tests did De Allende start add how many was he on the bench?

*    How many tries did Steyn score against 4th or higher ranked teams?

You keep on making a fool of yourself - so keep it up BSter.  LMAO     

Pakie in your image Dud is just reaching the scrummie....but the ball is already in Davies' hands. If you look one image earlier it's clear the scrumhalf is  outside Dud.

Am had little choice, there were other Welsh players peeling around and there was a good chance the scrumhalf could have gone all the way or close enough for a simple offload try.

At best, if Stephanie even got to the scrummie it would have been a side on tackle, probably from slightly behind really close to the line. He should have pivoted out a full arms'  length from the scrum, as flanks do in defensive mode.

The US commentator I got in my feed nailed this....he said the Welsh were creating the sense that they were going for the big shove, which committed our loosies. 

But when Faf got involved tackling Moriarty .....a natural  flank would have shifted to the outside. Stephanie didn't and so he had no line to cut off the scrummie.....and he waited a split second too long to react. When Faf made the inside tackle he had to cover the next man.

No Mozart

You got caught lying again and that remains a fact.   The scrummie was running towards the side of the field and  passed the ball wider out when he got into opposition.   You claimed that he broke past Du Toit - and now moderate your story again.  How many times do you lie in one thjreata nd got caught out lying?   I counted three times on this thread alone.  LMAO.     

No Mozart

You got caught lying again and that remains a fact.   The scrummie was running towards the side of the field and  passed the ball wider out when he got into opposition.   You claimed that he broke past Du Toit - and now moderate your story again.  How many times do you lie in one thread and got caught out lying?   I counted four times on this thread alone .  LMAO.     

Know how many times he was a reserve.....27!

Know how many tries he scored as a reserve....1!

So know how many tries he scored as  a centre....5

That's 5 tries in 22 games as a starting centre vs Allende's 6 tries in 46 games. But hold on Allende didn't start all those games...he actually only started at centre in 38 games. 

So if Frans played 26 games at his scoring rate ....he would have had his 6 tries. A rate of scoring which is 50% better than Dud Allende.'

No Mozart

I am not interested in all the drivel.   You did lie and when caught out by the number of tests played.  I pointed that out - as well as the fact that your schedule did not include the November tests in three years.   I do not imagine things you wrote and when I react it is exactly on the basis of what you wrote.  I must learn one thing - when you are caught distorting things copy and paste your original distortion and then point out what you did.  That will prevent you from changing your statements and amending it when caught out.

That is basic dishonesty on your part anyway. LMAO.

Please note that most of the tests De Allende played in was when Meyer and C oetzee coqached the team.   Both were incompetent without any game plans  as is evident by -

*   Coetzee being fired by SARU; and

*    Meyer being effectively fired by Stade Francais

If backline players scored tries with those two "coaches" around they were performing individual miracles and then claim Steyn did better than De Allende is a farce - but lets leave that one and hope you get over your obsessive hatred of some players and start being more objective as to what happened in matches,                 

You're not interested in the truth.

Pakie at minute 69 we get a repeat of Dud's scrum defence. Moriarty gets the ball....Dud is slow to react and Moriarty makes 6 easy metres off the base.

I've looked at this thing many times now....if Am doesn't come in the Welsh scrummie scores, he is a metre outside Dud, you can see it on the bird's eye view after the try...    but more crucially he is moving faster than Stephanie who is just getting going. No way Dud stops him  before the line.

Stephanie's scrum defence is a problem. Fortunately against the Poms we destroyed their scrums so badly they could never launch.

Mozart

You messed up again and badly so.   Lets quote what you write :previously wrote about Steynn;s test record:-

Know how many games Frans started at centre? ....22.

Know how many times he was a reserve.....27!

Know how many tries he scored as a reserve....1!

So know how many tries he scored as  a centre....5

That represents 49 tests while he in fact according to his profile played in 67 tests.    You added the words "at center" to your original wording and produced a list of games Steyn played in at being 52.   You also did not have any November tests listed in your list of 52 tests played and I pointed out the discrepancy.  Being aware that you are always dishonest about anything you write on site, I must   always remember to rather quote what you wrote before indicating the reasons why I query what you wrote.

Anyway, I went through the list of tries that s Steyn scored  and it appeared a rather dubious record:-

*   2006     =   2 tests         =    ZERO  tries

*    2007    =   14 tests       =    3 tests - England. Samoa,USA

*    2008    =    ????            =    1 try -  Italy

*    2009    =    ????            =     ZERO tries

*    2010    =    ????            =     3 tries - Italy (2), Australia

*    2011    =    ????            =      2 tries -  Wales, Namibia

*    2012    =    6 tests         =      1 try    -   Argentina

*    2017    =    2 tests         =      ZERO tries

*   2019     =    ????            =      1 try    - Canada

From the above three teams deserve mentioning namely  the  English. Wales and Australian teams,   

*   Insofar as the England team is concerned there was in the SA media serious problems as the England team being too weak to be competitive,   The media storm was right and that in 2 tests against the team the Springboks scored 15 tries   It was a team that was crap and the results showed it conclusively.

*   Wales was by 2011 really weak - eg  in the 6-Nations that year Wales was ranked 4th on the log.

*   Australia was at the time weak and was rated at 4 in the World Rugby rankings  

Be it as it may, the try-scoring record of Steyn was in the main against very weak teams.

Yes you're right.....5 tries in 22 games is the same strike-rate as 6 in 38! Dave please, don't become a CleverWanker clone, one is enough.

Mozart

Some guys are lucky - they often  play against weak teams and they scored easily,  That is why in his tests against Samoa, Italy, Namibia and USA tries are easy to come by,  

That is why Steyn's try-scoring record is what I would call spotty and perhaps an indication of why Steyn was at best  a questionable test player - from that perspective no  housee of fire,  

They hype about this player was unbelievable and from a lo ng drop and place kick special the rest of his performances a bit of a joke,         

 No David....Frans started in 22 tests at centre....Allende started in 38 games at centre. That's the data that can be compared. The other tests can't because Frans was on the bench for 40% of his tests

..... and Dumbwankermike.....what I wrote originally is exactly what is on the Board now, except in recounting Frans' tests at centre I found one I'd missed at outside centre, so I increased the tests he started at centre from 21 to 22. 

All that other stuff you claim is just another failure of your inferior brain to grasp the point.

The Welsh semi was really the whole tournament for us....the only time we were really at risk of exiting. For about 6 minutes after the Welsh try, with the scores tied.....the Wallies dominated the ball, well into our half. One penalty in that sequence could have seen us out the cup.

Then three crucial things happened. Louw made the steal that swung the game away from Wales. Next Faf put a brilliant rolling kick into the corner.....and then the insurance policy, another Mostert lineout steal to give the Boks the ball for the  closing minutes.

But far from being in control as I have read elsewhere this was totally a 50/50 test.

Mozart

The last time you dealt with a lineout loss - you blamed the wrong player  - your line out steal story  is likely to be another myth.   

Before you go any further - I at one stage questioned the poor line--out performances of Mostert as a player who was incapable of -

*    taking balls on opposition throw-ins - and AO came up with one line-out where it happened in tests in 2018; and

*    forming and organizing rolling mauls from line-outs- where he tried to do so and you came with the story about the maul leading to the winning try against France in 2018.

When analyzing what actually happened I was found that when trying to establish and organizing the maul it was found that  as expected Mostert was neutralized in that maul and was eventually pushed out completely with the maul going backwards until; Du Toit took over in organizing the maul and with the assistance of Vermeulen and the other forwards caused the  forwards movement.   Mostert after pushed out of the maul and joined the movement of the maul afterwards.

In 2019 in the RC test  against the AB's was a disaster in line-outs and in the subsequent test against Argentina he was never used for line-out jumping.   In the warm up test against Japan he was not a house on fire and in the WC match he was moved around in the line-out and was not actually usable in line-outs.    He was sometimes in front of the line-out jumpers and sometimes at the position taken up by the no 7 player,   Mostert's defense was so poor in the AB test that he was played from the bench in subsequent tests in the WC,

That was enough reason to doubt your version of the line-out win on Welsh throw-in.  Face it - Mostert is not physically strong enough to jump against stronger opposition locks - hence my doubts about the latest story by you.       

As to Steyn he had a spotty record playing at center.   He started off his career at full back and in the next test he played as a wing,   In  the world cup of  2007 he was moved to center after the injury to De Villiers,   His defense was deficient - especially in the WC final - and from an attack point of view he scored two tries against Samoa and the USA - two of the weakest teams in the series,    

He subsequently was rarely used in tests in 2008 and he scored a try against Italy - when actually used at center - the Springbok test center pairing was De Villiers and the very average Jacobs that year,  Steyn as at varying times after the 2007 WC used at full back, wing and flyhalf and was not really of  use in any of those positions.   

In 2009 he as the habitual bench player and whenever used as starting player he played at flyhalf.   Steyn signed a three year deal with Racing Metro - but the contract was not renewed and in 2012 he returned and signed a three year contract with SARU playing for the Sharks.   He was a failure at center and was eventually left out of the team due to injury.   He was totally overweight and slow while his out of hand kicking was a joke in bad taste.   

In 2013 to 2015 he played mainly at center and flyhalf for the Sharks and had a poor record in both positions. He was invited to the Springbok camp in 2014 and when he was told he would be on the bench in the first test against the Welsh and not starting - he left in a huff claiming he left because of a contractual problem with SARU  afterwards denied by SARU with proof that he was paid out and the contractual obligation complied with.   Be it as it may - he subsequently to 2012 never played in tests under Meyer and he was put on the bench by Coetzee in two tests and was not really usable.

Erasmus invited him to the WC training camp and he was extremely lucky to end up in the actual WC squad.   Esterhuizen failed in the tests he played in during 2018 and it as clear he was not fitting into the Erasmus game plan - both Serfontein and Willemse were injured.   Be it as it may Steyn became the bench player in tests bar in one test against Namibia in which he started.

In the meantime he signed a contract with Montpellier where he was used at flyhalf and center and was not a success in either,  After the departure of White he was moved to full back  in his last year on contract and his contract was not renewed by Montpellier.

You always made wild claims about Steyn's capabilities since he played in the WC in 2007 and I was equally enthusiastic about his return to the Sharks in 2012,   However, I soon realized that there was a problem with Steyn and it turned out to be true,   On Super Rugby level in 2013 he failed badly in the first four games played and Plumtree stated he was NO center at all.   

That raised other questions,   Why was Steyn over the years used to play at full back, wing, center and flyhalf for the Springboks through the period from 2006 to 2011.   He did not make the grade in any of the positions - he did not have the pace at full back and wing and was a problem at 10 and 12 for a variety of reasons,   The same situation came to he fore in Montpellier who used him in three positions without much success in any of those.   Montpellier ended up with not extending his contract this year and he is now moving back to the Cheetahs.        

The question is why did Steyn ended up as the habitual bench player for the Springboks in the period 2008 to 2011 and again in 2017 and 2019.  If he was the top player you for years he was,  why did he start in any of the four positions mentioned?   Only White persisted with him at center in 2007 and again used him at center and flyhalf  in 2014 when he coached the Sharks and again in 2016 and 2017 when he coached Montpellier.   Meyer used him in 2012 and that was effectively the end of his starting career on test level.

If Steyn as the great player you claimed he was - why was he used in so many different positions  with a very long list of bench appearances?   In essence the situation can be summed up as Steyn being an average player and not really a good enough test player to really be classified as a Springbok great.                                                                       

Mozart

The Welsh test  in 2019 was significantly different from the 2015 WC quarterfinal.  In 2015 the Welsh was leading in the point tally through to minute 74 and a lucky try very late in the test saved the SA bacon.

In the 2019 the Welsh never lead in points table and they caught up with the Springboks, but unlike in 2015 never really dominate in the game.  The Springboks made some crucial mistakes in the 2019 game  at least two tries was missed as a result of handling errors.    In essence the Welsh was given a free card in the domination stakes, but in reality the Springboks did dominate the Welsh in most components of the match.           

'The last time you dealt with a lineout loss - you blamed the wrong player  - your line out steal story  is likely to be another myth.'.....you say Tokkie.

.......so once again you accuse me of a lie. And once again I give you the opportunity to back up your claim. I say the lineout steal was against de Jager at minute 29.17. You say it wasn't de Jager but Etzebeth.

I say you are a stinking liar Wanker.....now back up your claim filth.  

Mozart

I do not pretend to take over your liar role on site.  That line-out loss was in the front of the line-out,   If n that specific line-out De Jager was moved to the front - fine, then I was wrong,  I somehow doubt whether that was the case.

After years of Steyn admiration by you I have previously dealt with Morne Steyn's real all-round performances on test level and indicated why he was seriously deficient as a flyhalf - other than at kicking at goal.  

After your foul-ups with Frans Steyn's test appearances I had a look at his real test record and found serious reasons for doubt as to him being the great you claimed he was,    Why did he had a much more often as a bench player than he was a starting player in tests?   Why was he used in a number of positions and never really lasted in any?   Why was he used by White as a favoured player - but not by other coaches who in the and found him to be deficient both on test and club/franchise level? 

No questions answered in your response.   Like to be honest and admit you were sold on the guy based totally because Steyn was in the WC winning team of 2007 and reputation is according to Meyer and you a basis for squad and team selection and that actual performance is not a basis for such selection?    Why the constant attacks on players like Du Toit and De Allende who played major rolls in the 2019 WC win?   Why your constant praising of White as a coach and constant maligning of Erasmus? 

Some answers not based on personal attacks will be interesting.      

You somehow doubt  that was the case.....you can't defend your assertion....but you have the gall to call another poster a liar based on your feelings. Then you try to obfuscate by bringing in the usual claptrap.

Lomp was the jumper, Eben assisted in the lifting....apologize Wanker.

Never saw Etzebeth doing that in any test - and you are talking shit again.   

What about the Steyn issue liar?  

No Mozart - I have never seen Etzebeth lifting another player in a line-out.   That is normally the function of props - not another line-out jumper.    Why did Etzebeth line up in that line-out behind De Jager anyway, dimness?    He regularly did when Mostert was playing - Etzebeth moving to the middle of the line-out because Mostert was too weak in line-outs, where driving mauls is envisaged.    Have never seen it in other line-outs.  

Anyway - the more you write the more it is clear you were lying to start off with.         

Thanks Mozart

I will when the test is reshown on TV looked at minute 29.17  again and see what really happened. 

Now lets get a few answers from you:-

*    If Frans Steyn was the Springbok great - why was he more often used as a bench player than he was a starter?

*    Why do you praise White endlessly and why do you malign Erasmus from t he day of his appointment - since both won the WC?

*    Why do you attack De Allende and Du Toit endlessly and have nothing but praise for Frans Steyn, who was a deficient defender in the 2007 final and De Allende and Du Toit contributed much more to the win in 2019?

38

Still in Chicago Moz ?

Yes.....Shark Attack , how about you?

Wilmington, North Carolina. We got nailed hard by Florence last year but otherwise good. My wife and I became US citizens on 3rd July this year !

Dave

That center contribution of Steyn included 3 tries against Italy as well.   You also left out a try scored against Namibia as well.   If one looks at Steyn's history he has never scored any tries against team ranked higher than SA by World Rugby,   Fact is that the majority of Steyn's  tries were against teams ranked lower than 8 .   That made the whole  BS campaign by Mozart so laughable,

Congrats SA... ..so the mission is finally complete!

Dave you can only score tries against a team, if you play against them. Frans played  centre against NZ  once.....Allende played 6 games against NZ and only made a try in his 5th game.

In fact......here's the clincher.......after 22 tests at  centre Frans had scored 5 tries.

 Dud after 22 tests at centre had scored 3 tries against the USA, Italy and Ireland....none of whom were ranked above the Boks.

And by the way, looking at Frans' tries as a reserve or at other positions he has tries against Oz, England, Ireland and Wales. Measured anyway you like he was more likely to score tries than Dud Allende.

And then the cherry on the cake is his long range kicking....drops and penalties. Allende is a sterile centre who was resurrected by Eraser's crash ball tactics.