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FORUM / RUGBY /  Why were so many convinced by Stepfontein?

Why were so many convinced by Stepfontein?

Started by Mozart42 REPLIES601 VIEWS· 31 Jul 2015, 00:42
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MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2015, 00:42
#1
31 Jul 2015, 00:42#1
The feeble hold this Bok centre has on fans, can be measured by the fact that he has lost so much ground while not playing. He was demonstrably a stop gap choice, now hardly mentioned in Bok team selections.
But it wasn't always thus. When Steppie emerged the anticipation was vast. I saw nothing of his junior play, so I was expecting Superman. Instead we got Robin....a nice player who was technically well trained and made process tackles. But he was obviously a bit of a cart horse. Watching Farrell burn away from him following a kick was especially discouraging.
The fact is Step has no weapon. He is the Wozniacki of centres.....plays nicely enough but can't hurt the top players.
What did the fans think they saw in Step. The mind boggles.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
31 Jul 2015, 02:11
#2
31 Jul 2015, 02:11#2
I think Serfontein didn't play to his full potential as he was played out of his primary position in most matches for the boks. He showed promising signs this year in S15. I wouldn't underestimate Serfontein seeing that he is still a young player who needs to develop further.

I believe the top 3 best SA inside centres are:
1.Damian de Allende
2.Harold Vorster
3.Jan Serfontein.

All 3 players above will really up their game in the near future years, they are the real deal.  

Jean De Villiers and Frans Steyn didn't proven anything great in recent times, both are not in the same calibre as those 3. If you think JDV and Steyn are better 12s you must know very little about Rugby.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jul 2015, 02:46
#3
31 Jul 2015, 02:46#3
 Jerome
Remember that in the views of Mozart and Disaster 12's must have certain capacities which Steyn and De Villiers possess and none of the others have ,  However, even though they possess these mystical capacities, it does not mean that they have to execute them.   The story here has all to do with theory, what happens in practice means nothing.
De Allende made 73 tackle breaks and 27 line breaks in Super 15 against the 9 tackle breaks and 2 line breaks of Steyn - but according to them Steyn is the more effective attacker.   They favour Steyn at 12, but cannot provide any logical reason for that support - so the best thing according to them is to make mythical claims and malign De Allende,  In that process they do not see the reason why the truth should be applicable so misrepresentations and outright lies become the norm.   If you analyse what those to write and what actually happens on the field of play, it is clear that nothing they write is anywhere near the truth.          
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jul 2015, 03:03
#4
31 Jul 2015, 03:03#4
 Mozart
The following contain  interesting comments:-
"The feeble hold this Bok centre has on fans, can be measured by the fact that he has lost so much ground while not playing."
If that is the situation of Serfontein, what is the situation with Frans Steyn?   The exact same statement can be made about Fransie - with the last two words being "not playing" in the case of Serfontein and "while playing"  in the case of Steyn.
The overwhelming favourite of 2012 has become - bar by the lunatic fringe  - the "never mentioned" center in 2015.
So what makes the difference then?  The answer is simple - proven performance, not myth created performance.   De Allende appeared  on the scene and being a better performer he gets the wider support of the rugby lovers with a minority plunging for Serfontein and the support for Steyn has virtually evaporated to the 1% range .
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 Jul 2015, 04:20
#5
31 Jul 2015, 04:20#5
Damian and Serf... that's s tragic view to the future. Serf is the more useful option as he can actually play 12. He can carry the ball much more strongly at 12. Damian is more mobile and a title faster, but lacks skill and reading of play. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2015, 05:00
#6
31 Jul 2015, 05:00#6
Serfontein showed promising signs in the S15. Listen this is a Springbok centre in his third senior year...he should be showing more than promising signs. But even that is wishful thinking...he and his partner JJ were toothless in the S15. The only Bools centre who showed anything was Odendaal.
As for Frans  and JdV do yourself a favour and watch how they bring up the line forcing the play inside. Watch and learn, because you are surely missing a lot out there.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2015, 05:09
#7
31 Jul 2015, 05:09#7
Proven performance Tokkie....now there's a laugh. A WC winner vs a guy who lost the Aussie test with feeble defence.  
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 Jul 2015, 07:08
#8
31 Jul 2015, 07:08#8
 Three points fir Dr Mozzz to considrr. Its not a disgrace to be replaced by the best inside centre in the game. He istill extremely young He has not been helped by playing for the barnacle's dom bulle. As Mike says also Jean as captsin got the 12 spot. Please also nite he is stull in the Bok mix. Jan depart from the bulle whi ruin backline playrrs.eg jj and how they messed up hougie and sadie.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 Jul 2015, 07:12
#9
31 Jul 2015, 07:12#9
 In case Dr Mozzz hasnt noticed the bulle have tried to make the visionary Jan into a crashballler.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jul 2015, 07:19
#10
31 Jul 2015, 07:19#10
 That was 8 years ago and not in 2015.   If you live in the past - fine.  But what did Steyn produced since his return from France?  Nothing - zero.   And this bloody idiocy of yours to blame one person for a team loss is absolute crap - standard Mozart BZ.  It is normally related to one incident where you have given a totally false description of what actually happened.    
Was de Allende lined up to defend against that move of Kuridrani in the test or what happened before the incident and during the incident.  Careful now - you were caught lying about that type of thing before.
That situation was equal to another incident - say in the 2013 Ellis Park test where Morne missed a tackle on Ben Smith when he was scoring a try  and there were 50 excuses found why Steyn was blameless in that case.   
Nobody ever said there were no problems with De Allende's defense - that was an was an issue where everyone said he needs to improve in.   However, despite that Fransie's defensive record in Super 15 this year was worse than De Allende's and that is also a fact.  Would Fransie even have attempted the tackler De Allende tried to make on Kuridrani in the test should he have played - and the answer is NO he would not have gotten near enough to do so because of his serious speed deficiency.  But what you keep carefully away from is all round play.  What about attacking play?  That is where Fransie scored zero since his return from France and De Allende scores 8/10.   
Your player assessments are jokes - so lets have a response on the above.   Forget about the previous statement "Steyn's real value in the team is not reflected by his stats" and other BS you thrive on - give us facts.                  
CE
Ceradyne
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CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 Jul 2015, 09:49
#11
31 Jul 2015, 09:49#11
" He istill extremely young He has not been helped by playing for the barnacle's dom bulle."

Could the problem have been the fact that, at the "dom bulle", his backline coach was a dom wp winger?
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Jul 2015, 10:12
#12
31 Jul 2015, 10:12#12

Rugby ignorance of the highest order......nothing changes here. 


'He was demonstrably a stop gap choice, now hardly mentioned in Bok team selections.'


First bit is a load of rubbish, he was first choice when all centres were available and Meyer raved about him last year. Hardly mentioned in Bok selections - I wonder why that is.......he is injured, hellooooooooo!!


This kid has all the skills demonstrated in his player of the tournament displays for the Baby Boks......are you saying that he has now lost those skills, the skills he used to beat defenders at will. The same form that saw him elevated to S15 and test rugby and a tender age.


This kid has better attacking skills than Jean, he has a step, something Jean never had and we have witnessed him beating his man on the outside.


The crap about him being slow is the biggest load of shit I have read in ages, much like the perception that he is not strong enough. He is no slower than the likes of Jean, Fourie, Odendaal, Vorster, Olivier, Frans Venter, Mnisi, Esterhuizen, Taute, Stokkies, Mapoe.....certainly quicker than Frans Steyn.


He does not have the pace of a JJ or Jessie Kriel.


Class act who will go down as one of the Bok greats



MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2015, 14:09
#13
31 Jul 2015, 14:09#13

Serfontein wont succeed because he lacks pace, and he lacks real strength. So how is he going to beat top defences. Answer....he isn't.

 

 

As for the young argument, centres are at their most explosive when they are young. They may add to their positioning and general nous as time passes.....they don't become more explosive. Those feeble Stepppie inside steps is the best attacking you will see from this incredibly ordinary centre.

 

 

Once again moz was right and the dumb howling mob was wrong....same with JJ, same with Mvovo , same with Rhule, same with Reinach, same with Jordaan, same with Boshoff, same with Jantjies, same with Esterhozen, same with Goosen.  Dumb howling mob zero.....moz 10 in  those debates.

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
31 Jul 2015, 15:16
#14
31 Jul 2015, 15:16#14

Well once again you are speaking nonsense.....for his pace is more than fine for a 12 and he is stronger than most of the centres we have in SA......de Allende, Esterhuizen and Frans will be the only centres that are stronger.


Serf's strength is one of his strengths.


Once again Moz knows fuck all about centres.....evidenced by his pro useless Adi Jacobs and anti Jaque Fourie for many years.


How on earth you can conclude that Serf is zero when he is very much in the Bok picture and still a baby.......what do you base this on? Serf will walk the Bok WC squad despite having not played much this year......that is the regard in which he is held.


Has the skills to beat his man on the inside and outside......something Jean has never been able to do.


He has a far better attacking skill set than Jean had at the same age......Serf is going to be a Bok great.  

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 Jul 2015, 15:35
#15
31 Jul 2015, 15:35#15
He is not a "baby" ....he is 22 years old, an age where O Driscoll was tearing the Aussies apart. He is never going to be anything but a place holder.
PA
Pakie
Captain17,321 posts
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
31 Jul 2015, 16:23
#16
31 Jul 2015, 16:23#16
"Serf is going to be a Bok great"

I doubt it. Special players immediately make their mark. Look at Habana, Pollard, Jean, Kriel. The moment they took the big stage they not only fit in, you sat up and took notice.

"He has a far better attacking skill set than Jean had at the same age"

Serf has made all of two clean line breaks in his test career so far, both when opposed by forwards. What attacking skill set are we talking about here? Jean needed only 6 test starts to score his first 5 test tries (scored against Aus, NZ (2), Wales and Pacific Islands and yes, I realize he was on the wing then). But, he was a special player. That was clear from the start. On Serf the jury is still out...and I think it will remain out indefinitely.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 Jul 2015, 18:54
#17
31 Jul 2015, 18:54#17
Jean is not the most natural centre, he has an instinct of a wing. But he holds his channel well and brings directness which straightens up the attack. Serf can run some good lines and reads the game generally well, but as said previously, he is not quite in the same league as Jean . Compounding that is his lack of strength. You don't need to be a track star, but if you are lacking strength, you need something to compensate for that. Take Giteau in that win over us as an example. It's nothing personal, but he is a poor man's Olivier. Note how the Bulls have really struggle since his departure. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 Jul 2015, 20:16
#18
31 Jul 2015, 20:16#18
 Lets be frank - Serfontein will likely make the WC squad this year - the competition is not strong, but against whom is he competing.   Fourie has been shown the door already and Steyn is bloody hopeless - at present one of the worst 12's in Super Rugby in SA.  I would say that Vorster is better than Serfontein - but I also think that Meyer is going to include the following in the squad as centers:
De Allende, De Villiers and Serfontein.
I would have picked Vorster ahead of Serfontein - but Serfontein has been struggling with an injury and has not had enough game time in Super 15 this year, so we are not really aware of his performances and what he is like at present.  W hatever his condition is - he is ten times better than Fat Fransie.   
 
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 Jul 2015, 20:34
#19
31 Jul 2015, 20:34#19
 Please provide evidence for this ten times better. I'm also still waiting for you to provide evidence for Lambie being 10 times better than Morne. You ran away from that thread, don't think I forgot about it! But we do know that Damian is statistically the worst defensive centre in SH rugby, which makes a mockery of your claims regarding Frans. LMAO! Live by the stats, die by the stats ;)
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
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Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 Jul 2015, 20:44
#20
31 Jul 2015, 20:44#20
 Frans is yesterdays man until he actually put in a performancre. I am aFrans fn but have been waiting in vain for Frans to come right. Thus far he has done ZIP.
Jan is strong and certainly has enough gas for 12. The Wp wing was marginalised by the dom bulle attack coach wee matfiled. Bwhahahaahahahhaha wee matfield played at center so much he thinks he is a center. However all he succeeded in doing is spoiling the backlines he polluted with his prescence .
Cerudunce windpomp all at sea again. 
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 Jul 2015, 20:51
#21
31 Jul 2015, 20:51#21
Actually, Frans was the best performing 12 in SA. It all depends on whether you can follow play or not. Judging by the cowardice blowhards who scurried into the darkest etches of shadowland when my video came out, I'd day that a good number of people cannot.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2015, 02:03
#22
01 Aug 2015, 02:03#22
Who would an opponent rather face, the innocuous Step or a powerhouse like Frans with his huge boot and strength. Frans has gravitas, the aura of a player who has done the business on the games biggest stage. Steppie  has the aura of lunch.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Aug 2015, 02:24
#23
01 Aug 2015, 02:24#23
Frans is the only centre in world rugby who draws such a concentration of defenders. Opponents mark him as though he were Alberts, Duane or Spies. The likes of Michael cannot understand how that might create opportunities by roping in the inner channels. He offloads too, and passes long off either hand and tackles with force and is positionally sound. He is not a fleet footed strike runner, he is an inside centre by design and nature. He does what a real 12 is supposed to do! Berated by Michael for no good reason, image what would be said if Frans was statistically and factually the worst centre in SH rugby? You would never hear the end of it. Frans has never defended worse than any of Damian's tests, not even at 13 himself. All the things that are swept under the rug.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 04:13
#24
01 Aug 2015, 04:13#24
 OK
Lets get this straight  "Actually, Frans was the best performing 12 of all SA 12s. Has done plenty right."
When and where and what did he do right.  Give us examples of what he did right over the last three years in Super 15.   There was zero in evidence and that is a fact.  He was so bad in 2013 that Plumtree said he was no center.  Since then he has done zip in attacking play - was poor in defence.  All I ask is practical examples - just not high-falluting words/statements - give us specific cases where what you said is proven in fact on the field of play.
I give examples every time when I criticize Steyn.  His lack of ability to break lines  and break tackles is confirmed by his stats in fam after game.  His ball possession losses happens game after game.   Tell us where he showed real pace in games - he is slow with a whacky knee to boot.  
There is enough talk - give us all examples - not what you claim he does regularly, but what he actually does.  
"Frans is the only centre in world rugby who has a concentration of up to three defenders."

Again - where and when did this happen?   Tell us why if that is the case - does he rarely break tackles in play.  So rarely that it is not averaging 1 suck tackle break per game played.   This is not even remotely motivated  since there is no proof of it.  Fact is the only inside center in SA who does what you claim Steyn does - is De Allende.  To bring him down takes two to three defenders in game after game,  It happened plenty of times in each game.  In the game last Saturday - everyone saw Messam and McCaw flying backwards when they tried to tackle De Allende with two other players needed to bring him down.  Give us examples where Steyn did the same thing.
Everyone can make statements on this site - but those statements should be substantiated.  If it is not it represents verbal diarrhea and the above statements both have not been supported by facts - by examples of where during games it happened.   
It should be easy to give practical examples of where such cases occur.  so let us hve those cases.  Name the matches, name the examples = not just make statements and five no supporting evidence.  Don't come with the Mozart story that Steyn's real value is not reflected in his statistical records.  If that is the case - why is it applicable to him - but to nobody else?              
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 04:28
#25
01 Aug 2015, 04:28#25
 Mozart
"Who would an opponent rather face, the innocuous Step or a powerhouse like Frans with his huge boot and strength. Frans has gravitas, the aura of a player who has done the business on the games biggest stage. Steppie  has the aura of lunch."
That is really funny.  Ask any center opposing Fransie at his stage of his career thyey would like to have opposite them  and they will pick Frans.   His defense was always patchy - even in the WC Final he missed 4 tackles - not only the spectacular miss on Tate, but a further 3 others.   His big boot is accounted for by a few long range penalties - even that was his only plus in 2014.   His kicking out of hand was never accurate and in the main in fact aimless.  His powerhouse status awarded to him by you - give us examples of it.  Tell us in which games it happened since his return from France.   Not one example - but where did it happen on a regular basis.
If one makes generalized statements like the above it should be easy to give examples that happen regularly in each game Frans plays in - so why not substantiate the statements by quoting examples?          
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 04:56
#26
01 Aug 2015, 04:56#26
 Pakie
I tend to agree with you - Serfontein to my mind is not what Dave claims he is - "a Bok great".   He is a run-of-the mill player who could feature in tests without really letting the team down - but nobody really expect "fireworks" from him.
He is definitely not as bad as Mozart and Disaster make him out to be - but to say he will be a Bok great is really not substantiated by performances on test level thus far. From evidence in the last two tests it is clear that Meyer has changed his game  plan to a substantial degree and the "stampkar" game to which Serfontein has been subjected to in the last three years is on the way out. It is not yet clear how a change in game plan would be dealt with by Serfontein and whether he would be better suited to a different approach towards center play/requirements.  We will have to see what happens in future and Serfontein could do better - but at this stage there is no real evidence that he would beat competitors for the Springbok jersey at 12 and become a Springbok great.         
    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2015, 04:56
#27
01 Aug 2015, 04:56#27
Prove he missed 4 tackles in the WC final. I only recall him over running Tait after  a ball was snapped up on the bounce. Who else did he miss....the facts Tokkie. And don't lie, you will be humiliated again. There are no individual stats for this game, so I suspect you are lying.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Aug 2015, 05:21
#28
01 Aug 2015, 05:21#28
 Michael is lying once again. But what's new? 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 05:23
#29
01 Aug 2015, 05:23#29
 I could also only remember one tackle miss - but the stats for the game said he missed four tackles in that game.  The stats were provided on this site at one stage and what I wrote is not a lie.  I am sure that a member - especially the one who posted the match stats at one stage - would do us a favour and post it again.  By the way it was a very good excuse you have for that Tate missed tackle.   I agree with you it did happen the way you described it  - but the bouncing ball should have made the tackle so much easier.   Why an excuse for Fransie's flaw in that tackle and damn anyone else for missed tackles where you do not want to accept excuses?     
However, what I did ask was the examples of what you claim to be Fransie's performance abilities in recent years - not what happened 8 years ago in the WC.  Your grandiose claims need to be substantiated by reference to what happened since 2012 after his return from France - where did Frans show in practice he performed according to the claims you made about him.  
Give us those facts because it is clear that he is not a patch of the player he was before his departure to France.  Don't try another escape mechanism - I am waiting for substantiation of all your grandiose statements on the field of play but do not really expect an answer and stating of actual examples happening on a regular basis in games he played in.    
He was statistically so abysmal that you at one stage claimed that his stats do not reflect his real value in the team.  So just prove your point - give us facts where that statement is justified.  That is all I ask in this case.    
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2015, 05:40
#30
01 Aug 2015, 05:40#30

Francois Steyn - Missed an early penalty, but made a great break late in first half. Kicked key long range penalty in the 62nd minute. 7

 

From Sporting life....no mention of 4 missed tackles.

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2015, 05:47
#31
01 Aug 2015, 05:47#31

 And here is another data point:

 

Tackles
(made/attempts)77/8881/97

 

 

The Boks missed 16 tackles in all....are you saying Steyn missed 4 of them Tokkie?

 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 06:06
#32
01 Aug 2015, 06:06#32
 Mozart
I saw stats provided by a member on this site a while ago - where he got it from I do not know.  I also said that I initially thought Steyn missed one tackle in the game - but the stats provided was different from what I believe at the stage was the only missed tackle.
However, whatever happened in 2007 has no real bearing on what happened in the games over the last three years in Super 15 or other matches  Fransie played in.  Nobody is really interested in what happened nearly a decade ago - what is pertinent is what is the situation now as substantiated by present facts.   
So do not try and wiggle yourself out of what I asked you to provide re Fransie's performance over the last three years.   That is the pertinent issue.   I was also a great supporter of Frans in the past - I stated so and said so when he returned from France.   However, it took me five tests to become disillusioned by what he actually produced  and since then he was showing zilch on Super 15 level.
Give practical examples why your grandiose descriptions of his abilities are true and why I am wrong in my assessment of his performance .  Must be easy as pie to do so - so let us hear what is the real info in the relevant regard - give us examples about that happening regularly in matches.  That is all that really counts and don't try and wiggle out of it by diverting from the real question asked.       
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Aug 2015, 06:26
#33
01 Aug 2015, 06:26#33
There are no player stats for this game....produce the evidence. This mythical poster doesn't exist. Steyn made the only Bok break in the game beating at least 3 tacklers and put a penalty over from 50 metres. You raised the WC final....no w back up your point.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 06:34
#34
01 Aug 2015, 06:34#34
 Mozart
Let us forget about that missed tackle issue.  When I looked at the game itself I only identified two missed tackles by Steyn.  Despite your claims - I saw what somebody posted on this site as the stats for that match and there was some discussion on the issue in the past.
However, what is pertinent now is the questions I asked you about where and when Frans has shown the claims of superiority in games he played in since 2012.   Practical examples of where it happened on a regular basis is ll that counts at present.   Why no response on that simple request - why sidetracking the issue?     

DE
DezertFox
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Aug 2015, 17:27
#35
01 Aug 2015, 17:27#35
I have analyzed the final at least 7 times, Frans did not do anything Tokkie-lossie stated. He counts on quoting old games thinking we can't remember or view them. Unfortunately I have every test from 2000 to now available. 
Even many throughout the 90s. Sorry Michael, you've blown it again
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 17:36
#36
01 Aug 2015, 17:36#36
 Village idiot 
Answer the question about where  Steyn has show up so wonderfully well in performance as as you said he did.  Name practical examples in specific matches during the past three years since his return from France.
Mozart could not find a single example or where he excelled in matches over the past three years and tried to escape the question by an unbelievable flood of verbal diarrhea. So now over to you - lets see whether you can come up with anything better.      
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
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DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Aug 2015, 18:28
#37
01 Aug 2015, 18:28#37
I have already documented each case as they unfolded. Unlike you, I don't use numbers as my base and detail events from watching actual game footage. It's been done thoroughly. It's you who fails to answer my questions because you do not know the details and fall on tried and trusted fabrications in the hope nobody will notice. How befitting then that the player you bemoan as a poor defender is emphatically better than your man who is statistically the worst defensive centre in SH rugby! And to add insult to injury your man cannot straighten the attack from 12. Ende. 
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 Aug 2015, 18:56
#38
01 Aug 2015, 18:56#38
 Disaster
Why don't you quote those cases - with the video involved so that we can see when what really happened on the field of play and form a realistic  opinion on what happened.  What you wrote as having happened is mostly total misrepresentation and outright lies.
The last version you wrote was funny - something happened on the field of play and all Frans contributed was taking up his position in the backline and then do squat afterwards.   You wrote paragraph after paragraph about how he took up his position in the backline - still contributing n othing subsequently.      
Hell - I knew the duds would come up with nothing of substance and you are worse in your response than Mozart.  He came up with verbal diarrhea - you came up with the real thing - utter Sh!t

    
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
01 Aug 2015, 19:18
#39
01 Aug 2015, 19:18#39
Actually, my summaries have been proven to be completely representative. So much is this the case that the mob are too afraid to deal with it. Why don't you go and post three years of data on a Sunday evening? What a ridiculous demand to make. I have done enough to debunk you; You are a well known liar as a result.
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
01 Aug 2015, 19:44
#40
01 Aug 2015, 19:44#40
 clevermike
 RE: Why were so many convinced by Stepfontein?
August 01, 2015, 05:23:55

 I could also only remember one tackle miss - but the stats for the game said he missed four tackles in that game





RE: Why were so many convinced by Stepfontein?
August 01, 2015, 06:34:49

 Mozart


Let us forget about that missed tackle issue.  When I looked at the game itself I only identified two missed tackles by Steyn.  One...... Two....
Desert Fox
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1193RE: Why were so many convinced by Stepfontein?
August 01, 2015, 05:21:11

 Michael is lying once again. But what's new? 



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