Fancy starting a top level meet

to negotiate peace without the presence of Ukraine. It's just typical Trump. Biden would never have shut out Ukraine.

Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine will never give in to Vladimir Putin's 'ultimatums' and has cancelled a visit to Saudi Arabia as he hit out at the United States and Russia for holding talks there 'behind our backs'.

'I wonder why they believe Ukraine would accept all these ultimatums now if we refused them at the most difficult moment,' the Ukrainian President said, referring to Kyiv's refusal to bow to Moscow's demands during crisis talks at the start of the war.

Zelensky pointed out that there were 'no agreements with the Russians during the occupation of Kyiv region,' nor during negotiations in Belarus or Turkey.

Moscow at the time called for a reduction in the number of Ukrainian troops, recognition of occupied Ukrainian territories as part of Russia, and the appointment of a pro-Russian government in Kyiv.

'As President of Ukraine, I have never given any guarantees to anyone or confirmed anything. Moreover, I have never intended to accept Russia's ultimatums. And I am not going to,' Zelensky said.

Officials from Moscow and Washington held talks in Riyadh today aimed at improving relations between their two countries and negotiating an end to the war, with the Kremlin saying afterwards that the discussions 'went well'.

But both Ukraine and its European allies were absent from the talks, sparking fury from Zelensky, who has repeatedly said that his country would not accept the outcome of talks without being involved in them.

'We were not invited to this Russian-American meeting in Saudi Arabia. It was a surprise for us. I think it was a surprise for many people,' Zelensky said at a news conference in Turkey's capital Ankara.

Zelensky said that while Ukraine wants the war to end, 'we want it to be fair and that no one decides anything behind our backs.'

Washington has insisted that Ukraine and European nations would have to have a seat at the negotiating table 'at some point', but did not specify when.

Speaking at a news conference with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Zelensky said that ending the war should involve European countries, including Turkey.

'Ukraine, Europe in a broad sense - and this includes the European Union, Turkey, and the UK - should be involved in conversations and the development of the necessary security guarantees with America regarding the fate of our part of the world,' he said.

'I have a feeling that negotiations are taking place now with the same mood [as 2022] now – this time between representatives of Russia and the United States. About Ukraine, again about Ukraine and without Ukraine,' he said on a visit to Turkey today.

He added that he had postponed his visit to Saudi Arabia planned for Wednesday until March 10, indicating his anger at the Arab state hosting the talks.

'We are absolutely honest and open. I don't want any coincidences. That's why I'm not going to Saudi Arabia,' he said.

US and Russian officials engaged in four-and-a-half hours of negotiations in Riyadh today, with the Kremlin saying the meeting 'went well'.

Trump's reversal of the years-long US policy of isolating Russia has triggered fears Washington could be preparing to force Kyiv into a settlement on Moscow's terms.

The US had previously assured that Ukraine and Europe would be part of any 'real negotiations' to end the war, and officials have sought to cast today's talks as a follow-up to the call between Trump and Putin.

They have characterised it as an initial contact between the two parties to determine whether Moscow is serious about ending the war.

The two parties discussed establishing a mechanism to address 'irritants to our bilateral relationship' with the goal of normalizing diplomatic relations, State Department spokeswoman Tammy Bruce said in a statement.

They also appointed high-level teams to work on ending the Ukraine conflict 'as soon as possible in a way that is enduring, sustainable, and acceptable to all sides,' she said.

'One phone call followed by one meeting is not sufficient to establish enduring peace,' she insisted.

In the aftermath of the discussions, Moscow has been laying out its demands and stipulations for peace talks, warning that a lasting settlement in Ukraine is 'impossible' without addressing the wider issue of European security.

'A lasting and long-term viable resolution is impossible without a comprehensive consideration of security issues on the continent,' Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

Peskov stated last week that Moscow wanted to use talks with the US to address Russian 'concerns' about the security situation in Europe. While he did not go into further detail, the Kremlin has demanded in recent years that NATO roll back to its 1997 borders.

Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova later said that Moscow wants NATO to disavow its 2008 promise to one day give Ukraine membership of the US-led military alliance.

Some European leaders, alarmed by President Donald Trump's overhaul of US policy on Russia, fear Washington will make serious concessions to Moscow and re-write the continent's security arrangement in a Cold War-style deal.

NATO membership for Ukraine is unacceptable for Russia, Zakharova said, adding that a simple refusal to accept Ukraine into NATO is also not enough for Russia.

'It is worth noting that a refusal to accept Kyiv into NATO is not enough,' she said. 'The alliance must disavow the Bucharest promises of 2008.'

At a summit in the Romanian capital in 2008, NATO declared that both Ukraine and Georgia would join the US-led defence alliance - but gave them no plan for how to get there.

NATO's official position - which has been consistently endorsed by Sir Keir Starmer's Government - is that Kyiv is on an 'irreversible' path to joining the alliance.

European leaders have desperately tried to put on a united front in support of Kyiv, convening at an emergency summit in Paris yesterday.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz leaving early and saying he was 'a little irritated' by 'premature' plans being made 'over Ukraine's head'.

#######

The Art of the Deal is more like The Fart of the Deal.

Biden had 3 years to try and stop the war...he did nothing.

He never performed the nauseating disgusting gatkruip with Putin that's currently on display by Trump & his sycophants ...................... Biden supporting Ukraine was hindered by Senate/House Goppies who blocked & delayed armaments reaching Ukraine.

You know the truth .................. ffs. be honest like your MAGA Meisters are & say, 'I don't give a fk about Ukraine'.

I see only four ways this war stops, and Ukraine does in fact have little to no bargaining power as far as I can see since they're almost totally reliant on outside aid to have a prayer. What, they're going to tell Russia "or else...?" Ha. Ha.

1. Give Putin enough so he is appeased. Chances are that will be only a temporary reprieve before more shit strikes the fan.
2. Say "Russia, you've been naughty and you must be punished" and launch a full scale global war against them. Congratulations, you've now started another world war with a nuclear power to give little Ukraine satisfaction.
3. Russia itself revolts and takes the Putin regime down from within
4. Everything carries on as it is now until either the Ukraine backers fold, Ukraine folds or Russia folds. I see the likelihood of events in that order.

This war should never have started and I don't think the parties involved did all they could to prevent it - there appears to have been a lot of poking going on. It is now a near unsolvable mess and all I see is criticism of Trump, yet no one criticizing him has yet put a workable solution on the table - Slava Ukraini is not a plan, just emotion.

Correct Pakie

At least something is being done to "try" and stop this war...... so people can swing it any way they want to, but Biden and Harris did sweet fuck all to prevent or stop thousands of unnecessary lives from being lost on both sides of the fence.

I just hope that enough is done to placate Ukraine, but as I mentioned in one of my other posts, Ukraine don't exactly have much to offer or say at the negotiation table on exactly how this war continues or ends, purely because they rely on so much aid from the two main contributors to Ukraine, which is the US and Europe.

batshitoric

autocrat

The truth is painful.

One question only for our substantial & sadly growing band of Maga- malgatte, asb. Do you support what Trump's saying on the war or do you reluctantly agree with me that, in this regard, he's indeed, batshit ?

The absolutely scary thought, is that some people on this forum wanted Kamala Harris in office instead of Trump...

Just imagine what she would have done sitting at that same table in the video above with all those representatives....

"Do you support what Trump's saying on the war or do you reluctantly agree with me that, in this regard, he's indeed, batshit ?"

I don't bother answering you on questions like this anymore, because I can see the good and bad in what Trump does, and I openly admit it.... you however have and always will just only look and point out the bad.... so what is the point in asking for people's opinions on issue like this when you cannot even remotely acknoweldge anything that he might do well.

One question only for our substantial & sadly growing band of Maga- malgatte, asb. Do you support what Trump's saying on the war or do you reluctantly agree with me that, in this regard, he's indeed, batshit ?

They are too far gone to say anything more than a token "well he says the odd stupid or mean thing", than for any serious critique.

What I'm more concerned about is in Europe where some politicians in some countries are operating under the delusion that Trump has some sort of grand strategy and this is all an act to fool the Russian's.

The death and destruction must stop...even with help, this war is not sustainable...

I specifically asked 'on the war', which for me is far more important than any issues back in the US.

143 nations condemned the illegal invasion.

6 supported Russia.

Sorry, make that 7 as Trump categorically reveals his choice.

Shame & sies to him & his cultists.

Russia is 100% responsible for the invasion...IMO Trump is right that Zelensky did not do enough to try and stop it...his demand of pre 2014 borders is unrealistic.

Zelensky is in a weak position because he is totally reliant on foreign help. Putin is in a weak position because he has been unable to close the deal. Trump is in a weak position because he has guaranteed a result, he would be in a far stronger position if he hadn’t made that part of his campaign.

Three weak players who have to get a result seems to me to suggest a result.

When that happens they will all claim a win. But the Left will say Trump capitulated even if there was no chance for a better solution. There was a time for Ukraine to fight to save their country, they have done that. Nothing good will come out of prolonging this conflict.

Men of conscience, damn few of them left, will applaud the end of the slaughter and shed a tear for the boys who have died in yet another failure of the human race.

Everything goes as per plan. Liberals have deep self perception problems and have grown used to using their power to force their failed perception of themselves on others. That power is waning though...

DJT pictures himself as a master negotiator, a failed self perception as this dude can not negotiate anything with the threat of a gun in his hand. The policy of the gun has failed against Russia so in order to save the face, DJT has made the major russian demands his own negotiation points. He introduces them as his own and ensures he will come up at the top of the negotiation as liberals are obsessed with coming up at the top due to their winner/loser perception of society. They can not afford losing. DJT claims he does not want to go to Saudi Arabia not to blur the lines. He does not want coincidences. This dude is golden made. No claim is too outrageous for him to state. Best liberal in years. In fact, as he is put in charge of managing the victory of Russia, he will do all things possible not to be associated with a losing side (see super bowl final)

All these personality faults are exploited by Russia. On this board, it was revealed that Putin has declared that Trump was a tough negotiator with the best interests at heart. Of course, Putin does not think that a minute. He properly assessed Trump's personality. The move allows to make the negotiation points demanded by Russia as appearing to be the US best interests.

As the US are venting their frustration on their close allies, Europe and the Ukraine, it means that the deal that is being forced down their throat is not made on the behalf of Russia but on the behalf of the US' best interests. The deal is guaranteed first by the US themselves. A breach against them will be an attack against the US.

Liberal nations have lost any ability to speak about themselves in correct terms, they rely on narratives to make it through the day. Theu can not report the deal and its consequences as they are. Putin's stature will grow wolrdwide except in liberal nations as they can not accept to be on the losing side. Nevertheless, Russia through Putin played them. The twist of making them bow to the US instead of Russia is a smart one.

Zelensky's bravery is commendable, but it's been 3 years, almost a million lives...billions of dollars and no clear path of ending the loss of life and infrastructure...stop the fcn insanity NOW, we can talk later about who's winning the p!$$!ng contest...long overdue...

BOB and Denny...nice to have you having Ukraine's back...what's your take on the thousands of Saffas being murdered every year?

There's nothing new or different in Trump's approach to ending the war in Ukraine, it's all about American interest which lies buried under the soil of Russian occupied Ukraine.

It's a sellout. The mother of all sellouts.

Trump looks to be leaning towards Russia, he feints towards giving them something with the aim of getting something in return, if not all but the bulk of Ukraine's Rare Earth minerals. If Zelensky rejects Trump's peace deal or refuses to negotiate Trump will then withdraw American military support.

It's called extortion.

Sellout my arse, how many people died the past 3 years?...wag en kyk before you wager a few lives on the stake of righteousness...

...

No it’s called hoping desperately for the worst.

Draad as you know thousands of SAfricans are murdered every year ........................ Cape Town averaged 8 a day which totals 3000 per year. SA has long been notoriously one of the most violent places on the planet.

Wtf has our murder rate to do with Ukraine?

What has your batshit MAGA Meister promised Cyril ?

Wtf has our murder rate to do with Ukraine?

Kinda asked myself the same question......it's a dumb question with an obvious answer hence the reason I chose to ignore it.

Question to ask is what has Ranapose and South Africa have to do with the header of this blog?

Start a new header with the question.

sdfg

dfg

Wtf has our murder rate to do with Ukraine?

Duh man, of course its linked, like in the same way Ireland's tax system is linked to the US policy on Ukraine.

Truly maganificent.!

classy Republican

Slavi Ukraine. Jesus weeps. At war with Russia & em supported militarily by China, Iran, NKorea, Syria

& now Trump's verbal diarrhetic bollocks. The mind boggles at the level of support that this gobshite receives.................... nevertheless the maga-monkeys here assure us that Ukraine will receive an equitable deal.

Wtf has our murder rate to do with Ukraine?

Duh man, of course its linked, like in the same way Ireland's tax system is linked to the US policy on Ukraine.

Let me tell you lot another facual situation. Under Biden the USA Government was totally corrupt and trillions were wasted on coruption - with the result the U SA have two choices or ndin g up n a world based ona ttoal collape of teh financial sste, and those are -

1. To clean up the situation as to internal maladministration and corruption - which is on the go and the corrupt politicians in Washington are crying foul snce they amy end up in jail;
2. That proper financial amanagement s ystems be introduced tat present corruption through appoitment of honest managers in the USA ;
3. That the USA stop corruption in aid programs like is happening in Ukraine. There is no suditing as to what money povided by the US A to Uraine is spent on.

The thlng to sort of the situation is that the USA on the Biden Path would have been in a econmomic crisis that would have been leading to total destgruction by corrupt traitors of the country, The navy and army was already in crisis with a third of the USA nuclear driven and armed submarines withdrawn ffrom service for maintenance programs and those never started, A quota system determied by the Biden Administration was so corrupt that targets could not be reached, Trump crapped te qutas and the recruitment target ahs already been met.

The fact is that Denny carry on about Taiwan - but their is a problem - if Harris won the eelction S outh Korea and Taiwn would already have been pccupied by the Chinese and prepaprations well under way to get Australia under the Chinese regime as well.

Putin and Zi knows Trump is a hard bastard to negotiate with as they would hve to make concessions n everything or receive full puishment for any misbehaviour - so he is not going take BS from either. of them. They will behave according to basic norms and war and attacks on other countries is not part of the norms.

The media knows zero of what is really going on with the negotiayoions and used shit to atack Trump with n proof of what is under consideration.

By the way Putin and Zi had all the proof of Bide and other political cruption in the USA and could release the info is he does not behacving in lin it their instructions, And Biden and his co-criminals in Government did behave and they just ignore the shit he was responsble for.

, ,

.."Wtf has our murder rate to do with Ukraine?

Duh man, of course its linked, like in the same way Ireland's tax system is linked to the US policy on Ukraine."

Nothing to do with each other...was just hoping you can have the same empathy for the people of the country of your fathers as you have for the foreign land.

.....was just hoping you can have the same empathy for the people of the country of your fathers as you have for the foreign land.

Just as your lot had empathy for a people of a dark colour.....is that what you mean?

Gotcha!

Yes, that's what I mean...and it's not only my lot suffering in South Africa, my lot is resistant we will survive...the vengeance is bitter né...a let down?

Yes, that's what I mean

No, that's not what I mean, start again.........I'm talking of a time when you ruled.

Showed a fat lot of empathy then Huh?

That's what I mean!

Get it????

Good.

Oh, I get it...always have.

It's 'have' not 'has'.....and no you don't get it, if you did you wouldn't have gone down a cynical path.

And OBTW it's not that I'm indifferent to any racial or ethnic group regardless of where in the world but however tough your tribe is doing they own 93% of the farms in the country.

I ask again.....point me to an equitable solution.

The experiment of just handing over farms to "previously disadvantaged" has been tried and failed time and again now. The net result is usually fertile fields lying empty and unworked and a farmstead plundered for building materials (yes, that is African logic). Commercial farming is not a joke. In my area they handed over a fully functioning vineyard farm to the "community". Those vineyards are all dead now. You can't just hand over farm land - that is populist nonsense. Ask Zimbabwe.

"I ask again.....point me to an equitable solution."

Equity is not equality...

"No, that's not what I mean, start again.........I'm talking of a time when you ruled."

Denise(AKA the mole Blackboy) is a leka racist.

But it's not driven by the past. That's just an excuse. It's driven by the very present jealousy. It courses through her veins like salt.

I mean, she lives in Australia, a desert, turned into a flourishing 1st world nation by the whitey.

...and you know she often wonders if her "tribe" could accomplish similar.