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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Greenland’s man made ice loss….

Greenland’s man made ice loss….

Started by Mozart41 REPLIES2,284 VIEWS· 20 Feb 2022, 06:59
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Feb 2022, 06:59
#1
20 Feb 2022, 06:59#1

….an even bigger Warming Believer tenet than schools of  floating polar bears, follows the temperature anomaly I have pointed out before. It started long before man made CO2 had risen significantly and hasn’t accelerated as those man made CO2 levels have skyrocketed. Just another inconvenient slice of reality…..proving these ‘consequences’ are not moving in a way man made CO2 increases would dictate.



One of the most sacred tenets of climate alarmism is that Greenland’s vast ice sheet is shrinking ever more rapidly because of human-induced climate change. The media and politicians warn constantly of rising sea levels that would swamp coastlines from Florida to Bangladesh. A typical headline: “Greenland ice sheet on course to lose ice at fastest rate in 12,000 years.”

With an area of 660,000 square miles and a thickness up to 1.9 miles, Greenland’s ice sheet certainly deserves attention. Its shrinking has been a major cause of recent sea-level rise, but as is often the case in climate science, the data tell quite a different story from the media coverage and the political laments.

The chart nearby paints a bigger picture that is well known to experts but largely absent from the media and even from the most recent United Nations climate report. It shows the amount of ice that Greenland has lost every year since 1900, averaged over 10-year intervals; the annual loss averages about 110 gigatons. (A gigaton is one billion metric tons, or slightly over 2.2 trillion pounds.) That is a lot, but that water has caused the planet’s oceans to rise each year by only 0.01 inch, about one-fifth the thickness of a dime.

PHOTO: WSJ

In contrast, the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projects that for the most likely course of greenhouse-gas emissions in the 21st century, the average annual ice loss would be somewhat larger than the peak values shown in the graph. That would cause sea level to rise by 3 inches by the end of this century, and if losses were to continue at that rate, it would take about 10,000 years for all the ice to disappear, causing sea level to rise more than 20 feet.

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To assess the importance of human influences, we can look at how the rate of ice loss has changed over time. 

In that regard, the graph belies the simplistic notion that humans are melting Greenland. Since human warming influences on the climate have grown steadily—they are now 10 times what they were in 1900— you might expect Greenland to lose more ice each year. Instead there are large swings in the annual ice loss and it is no larger today than it was in the 1930s, when human influences were much smaller. Moreover, the annual loss of ice has been decreasing in the past decade even as the globe continues to warm.

While a warming globe might eventually be the dominant cause of Greenland’s shrinking ice, natural cycles in temperatures and currents in the North Atlantic that extend for decades have been a much more important influence since 1900. Those cycles, together with the recent slowdown, make it plausible that the next few decades will see a further, perhaps dramatic slowing of ice loss. That would be inconsistent with the IPCC’s projection and wouldn’t at all support the media’s exaggerations.

Much climate reporting today highlights short-term changes when they fit the narrative of a broken climate but then ignores or plays down changes when they don’t, often dismissing them as “just weather.” 

Climate unfolds over decades. Although short-term changes might be deemed news, they need to be considered in a many-decade context. Media coverage omitting that context misleadingly raises alarm. Greenland’s shrinking ice is a prime example of that practice. 

If Greenland’s ice loss continues to slow, headline writers will have to find some other aspect of Greenland’s changes to grab our attention, and politicians will surely find some other reason to justify their favorite climate policies.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Feb 2022, 07:11
#2
20 Feb 2022, 07:11#2

Mozart

The last mini-ice age was in 1300 - to 1400 AD.   It was so bad that the Viking settlements in Greenland was abandoned and the settlers moved back to Iceland.    It is to be expected that the ice in Grenland would continue to melt until a new mini-ice age comes back.      

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Feb 2022, 17:51
#4
20 Feb 2022, 17:51#4

No need to fact check Wall Street Journal articles, by far the most reliable source of main stream news.

So it’s between 25% and 40% likely more ice was lost in the 40s when carbon played a negligible role and Politifact rates the claim ‘mostly false’? Of course only the data that showed no greater effect because of man made warming, was parsed and  analyzed. Nothing is ever wrong with data that shows warming.

The simple fact is we were losing this ice , always blamed on global warming , long before global warming could have been a factor.

I rate Politifact’s verdict ‘mostly false’. Nice Google Anger but this finding totally backs up my prior claim that up to half the 1.2 degree increase can’t be attributed to man made CO2.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
21 Feb 2022, 10:39
#5
21 Feb 2022, 10:39#5

No need to fact check Wall Street Journal articles, by far the most reliable source of main stream news.

LOL, isn't that convenient. A source more infallible than the Pope.

But excuse me if I fact check an opinion piece from someone who isn't a climate scientist with a track record of repeating misleading or debunked arguments. 

So it’s between 25% and 40% likely more ice was lost in the 40s when carbon played a negligible role and Politifact rates the claim ‘mostly false’? Of course only the data that showed no greater effect because of man made warming, was parsed and  analyzed. 

Ah so it was okay for the author of the article to omit the fact that he was only 40% confident in the accuracy of his data? Love the way you ignore the balance of probabilities. So are you going to admit the article you posted is probably wrong, considering the upper estimate of 40% is not very credible as its coming from the author of the article and as I already mentioned is not an expert in the field of climate science and has a dubious track record. 

Nothing is ever wrong with data that shows warming.

Says the man that is happy to use evidence that is a best 40% likely to be true. The irony.

The simple fact is we were losing this ice , always blamed on global warming , long before global warming could have been a factor.

Strawman.

I rate Politifact’s verdict ‘mostly false’. Nice Google Anger but this finding totally backs up my prior claim that up to half the 1.2 degree increase can’t be attributed to man made CO2.

Ah yes repeat the same argument over and over and then stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALA I can't hear you" so you don't have to hear why the argument doesn't hold water and can so remain free to keep repeating it. Protects ones ego from getting hurt I suppose but not very intellectually honest now is it?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
21 Feb 2022, 11:30
#6
21 Feb 2022, 11:30#6

Just some friendly advice, Moffie . . . knowing full well that you won't heed it and you'll start squealing "game set and match" or some such nonsense . . . but stay down. You're embarrassing yourself almost as much as you did on this legendary thread.

LMAO!

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2022, 02:44
#7
23 Feb 2022, 02:44#7

Anger he’s not 20% to 40% confident in his data….he’s 20% to 40% confident that more ice was lost in the 1940s before CO2 had budged significantly. But you don’t need ‘more in 40s’ to blow up the theory the green lobby is promoting, that ice loss is only a consequence of global warming. 

Just looking  at the chart even an Irishman should be able to see, ice was being lost in great quantities  before man made CO2 could have been a factor.

As for you Peeper, this is really not for you, it has to do with understanding numbers, your nemesis.


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
23 Feb 2022, 09:59
#8
23 Feb 2022, 09:59#8
"As for you Peeper, this is really not for you, it has to do with understanding numbers, your nemesis."
Here are some numbers that I do understand . . . Moffie/Cliff Harris/ Randy Mann 0; everyone else 1.
LMAO!
Has anyone ever made a bigger fool of himself on this board? Ever?
"Don't believe these studies without doing your homework is my advice."
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Feb 2022, 17:15
#9
23 Feb 2022, 17:15#9
Good choice Peeper….you have zero and one down…..as you say they are numbers you do understand Two and up are beyond your grasp. Wahahaha….out of the mouths of fools.
As for the real content of the article:
‘ Since human warming influences on the climate have grown steadily—they are now 10 times what they were in 1900— you might expect Greenland to lose more ice each year. Instead there are large swings in the annual ice loss and it is no larger today than it was in the 1930s, when human influences were much smaller. Moreover, the annual loss of ice has been decreasing in the past decade even as the globe continues to warm.’
…..it’s an absolutely correct statement. Or if you want to be picky the graph shows maybe 5% more ice loss at the peak, with maybe 7 times more man made warming influence. 
Seven  times more produces a 5% increase…. that’s 0.7% of what we would have expected if there was a proportional relationship between ice and CO2.
Er…..game, set and match!
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Aug 2022, 10:58
#10
22 Aug 2022, 10:58#10

" There are all climate zealots who want to destroy the entire world because they think the warming from the bottom of the Mini-Ice Age during the 1600s was cause by the Industrial Revolution and fossil fuels.  There is no talking to them because this is their religion."

Europe will probably be in a bit of a spot of bother this winter...


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
22 Aug 2022, 11:44
#11
22 Aug 2022, 11:44#11

That's very interesting.

Funny how global warming was predicted ages ago.

The hand of God is never seen in any of these issues.

It's all either a natural disaster or some man made catastrophe.

The one issue I'm a little concerned about is our coming summer.

We clock mid to late 30's in the heart of summer without effort. 

If the UK is being hit with 40 degrees plus ... what's waiting for us.

We are also a land with constant water issues. 

I suspect we're in for the high jump this summer. 



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 11:46
#12
22 Aug 2022, 11:46#12
Your point Draad?
Europe was already in a spot of bother this summer during the heatwave, thousands died in addition to things like droughts and wildfires.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 14:45
#13
22 Aug 2022, 14:45#13
  • 1906 – during the 1906 United Kingdom heat wave which began in August and lasted into September broke numerous records. On September 2 temperatures reached 35.6 °C (96.1 °F), which still holds the September record, however some places beat their local record during September 1911 and September 2016.
  • 1911 – 41,072 deaths were reported during a heat wave in France.

…….

Shall I go on?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 14:48
#14
22 Aug 2022, 14:48#14

I love the way these warming believers dump on any specific event contrarians may cite and then leap on a heat wave as if that has anything to do with warming. Even their own would point out a 1 degree increase in averages may be climate change….15 degrees above normal is weather.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:02
#15
22 Aug 2022, 15:02#15
and then leap on a heat wave as if that has anything to do with warming.
Heat wave frequency and intensity has very much to do with warming.
But I wasn't really bringing it up as counter point to the skeptics who count cold weather events as evidence against global warming. More that Europe can endure difficulties.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:11
#16
22 Aug 2022, 15:11#16

The climate is cyclical...it would be changing even without humans...and we're close to the top of a warm cycle...we should be doing more to prepare and addapt to the changes than trying to prevent the inevitable. 

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 15:33
#17
22 Aug 2022, 15:33#17

The climate is cyclical

Yup

it would be changing even without humans

Yup

and we're close to the top of a warm cycle

No the current rate or warming cannot be explained by natural causes.

we should be doing more to prepare and addapt to the change than trying to prevent the inevitable.

We are not trying to prevent something that is inevitable. We are trying to prevent something that's within our power to prevent.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Aug 2022, 16:42
#18
22 Aug 2022, 16:42#18

Why not Stav?    None of the scientific predictions have ever been realized.   The extremists wats a switch to green power immediately - but it can never work - but if it is done it would reduce the world population to circa 500 million - the ideal position Gates wants as a result of starvation. 

No more cheese and meat because the extremists want cattle removed because their faring cause air pollution.    I think there is nobody who does not want a cleaner environment with less pollution  - but realism  should be the  way to go.   

When politicians use global warming as a scare tactic to undermine the rights of people - I for one believe they should be   booted out.   They want to concentrate power and not help the people they are elected to serve in Democratic countries.    In China and India - the worst polluters in the world - are part of a deal to reduce pollution some progress could be made - but there is zero evidence that they do not laugh all the way to the bank because of western fixation on climate change.   They produce the infrastructure to be used for green energy anyway.   ,         

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Aug 2022, 17:10
#19
22 Aug 2022, 17:10#19

"We are not trying to prevent something that is inevitable. We are trying to prevent something that's within our power to prevent."

That's part of the lie..at best we can hope to postpone the rate of change...slightly at that, not the extent...At some time in the past the oceans were much higer due to no ice caps and glaciers...that occurred naturally...as did the ice ages at other stages in history...we will never be able to prevent that, maybe stall it a bit, but somehow they leave out that bit while fearmongering...it's so obvious...what else are they lying about?

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 17:41
#20
22 Aug 2022, 17:41#20

None of the scientific predictions have ever been realized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugwqXKHLrGk&t=443s

 The extremists wats a switch to green power immediately - but it can never work - but if it is done it would reduce the world population to circa 500 million - the ideal position Gates wants as a result of starvation.

Mike this is why no one around here takes you seriously. The idea that Bill Gates wants to bring the world population down by to 500 million through starvation is just nut job talk.

I think there is nobody who does not want a cleaner environment with less pollution  - but realism  should be the  way to go.  

Yes so stop misrepresenting the proposals of environmentalists and climate scientists.

When politicians use global warming as a scare tactic to undermine the rights of people - I for one believe they should be   booted out.   They want to concentrate power and not help the people they are elected to serve in Democratic countries.    In China and India - the worst polluters in the world - are part of a deal to reduce pollution some progress could be made - but there is zero evidence that they do not laugh all the way to the bank because of western fixation on climate change.   They produce the infrastructure to be used for green energy anyway.   ,        

More twaddle.

That's part of the lie..at best we can hope to postpone the rate of change...slightly at that, not the extent...

Its not a lie.  If we take action now it benefits not only ourselves but generations to come. What is a lie is to suggest that the rate of change is occurring naturally, its not, I've seen figures suggesting that the warming that's happened over the last 145 years would have taken 5,000 years to occur naturally.

At some time in the past the oceans were much higer due to no ice caps and glaciers...that occurred naturally...as did the ice ages at other stages in history...we will never be able to prevent that,

Not suggesting they can, but that's for people thousands of years in the future to worry about. Then they can think about preparing and adapting.

but somehow they leave out that bit while fearmongering...it's so obvious...what else are they lying about?

Somehow you leave out the bit about the vast difference in time scale between naturally occurring warming and man made warming. I would of though that be obvious to understand. Fearmongering such as its all a vast conspiracy to somehow take everyone's freedom way. The people who have fed you this crap are the ones lying.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 19:37
#21
22 Aug 2022, 19:37#21

Oh so it’s heat wave frequency that’s legitimate….but not consistent readings from one source representing the world’s second largest land mass, measured multiple times, over time.


You have to love these mathematically ignorant folk.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 19:48
#22
22 Aug 2022, 19:48#22

Oh so it’s heat wave frequency that’s legitimate….but not consistent readings from one source representing the world’s second largest land mass, measured multiple times, over time.

I prefer consistent readings from temperature reading stations around the entire globe, not just one source. But of course you know that, I'll save you time with your next rebuttal.

Blah blah blah...all those temperature readings are wrong.

Blah blah blah...all those temperature readings are wrong because climate scientists want funding.

You have to love these mathematically ignorant folk.

You have to love these ignorant folk who think they are geniuses.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 20:22
#23
22 Aug 2022, 20:22#23

See you are learning….if you take multiple measurements, including new location readings, changing the weightings, putting the thermometers on ships… you have infinite opportunity for manipulation.

Pick one spot in the middle of a continent and measure it the same way over time you have a shot, unless there are heat island effects.

If that measurement doesn’t show provable warming, it’s more likely that the averages are manipulated and flawed than one place on earth, representative of a vast region,  is magically a climatological  Brigadoon.

BE
becsPro4,378 posts
22 Aug 2022, 20:47
#24
22 Aug 2022, 20:47#24

The plural of genius is genii, Stavanger. 

What I love about this whole thing is the amount of air miles travelled in order to spread the climate disaster word to the masses. Does their pollution not count because they are the great and the good ? 

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 20:57
#25
22 Aug 2022, 20:57#25
See you are learning….if you take multiple measurements, including new location readings, changing the weightings, putting the thermometers on ships… you have infinite opportunity for manipulation.

Ah yes the unsubstantiated blah blah blah the global temperature readings are wrong right on queue.
Funny I thought it would be easier to manipulate one data source rather than several thousand but as I said blah blah blah.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 21:05
#26
22 Aug 2022, 21:05#26
There is no such thing as a global  temperature reading. All we have is an average, the components and weightings having changed over time. Or perhaps you visualize a windmill sized thermometer inserted into a dormant volcano…..hahaha.
The ignorance is epic.
ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 21:21
#27
22 Aug 2022, 21:21#27

The ignorance is epic.

Says the man who can't grasp concepts that 5 year old's can.

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Aug 2022, 21:40
#28
22 Aug 2022, 21:40#28

Yes that why I have a PhD, with a perfect 4.0 grade average, have taught at one of the World’s top business schools….as well as run 2 Fortune 500 companies.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
22 Aug 2022, 22:20
#29
22 Aug 2022, 22:20#29
Pretty rich, Star EU natural gas futures are up 700% and electricity 1 year forward is currently the definition of parabolic. Your response; 1) Europe will “cope” and 2) we’ll have to “see” if it affects sentiment on the Russian conflict. Being that detached and clueless hardly leaves you in any position to mention 5 year olds. I’m just gobsmacked that someone is still willing to push ESG narratives in this climate, and with a straight face.
ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
22 Aug 2022, 23:55
#30
22 Aug 2022, 23:55#30

Yes that why I have a PhD, with a perfect 4.0 grade average, have taught at one of the World’s top business schools….as well as run 2 Fortune 500 companies.

Fantastic appeal to authority,  now what research in the field of climatology have you had published in peer reviewed scientific journals again?

Now do you want me to get my little nephew to explain to you that in order to know if global temperatures are rising we need to get temperature readings from around the globe, not just one location. Its a really really simple concept to grasp. I'm sure if you put that fancy PHD and perfect 4.0 grade average to use you can do it...just put you're enormous ego aside for just a minute and apply a tiny bit of common sense and you can make it...come on boy...that's it, you have almost g...oh never mind...god loves a trier!

Being that detached and clueless hardly leaves you in any position to mention 5 year olds. 

Hmmm...I'm not the one who posts about UFO's.

I’m just gobsmacked that someone is still willing to push ESG narratives in this climate, and with a straight face. 

I'm gobsmacked anyone can be skeptical of climate change, after decades of research and evidence compiled by thousands of scientists in hundred of countries. I'd actually call that detached and clueless. All we get is grade A conspiracy wank about funding.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Aug 2022, 00:44
#31
23 Aug 2022, 00:44#31

My PhD was in economics and applied mathematics. I have technically reviewed hundreds of statistical models….I understand their limitations. You clearly don’t….you are just regurgitating the propaganda you read.

Multiple locations bring in additional variables….that can be a good thing, except if those variables are not statistically independent….if they are combined in  ways that aren’t neutral. 

Tracking a single variable eliminates the random variability introduced by averaging which is constantly being tinkered with….off you go, Google some more.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Aug 2022, 00:57
#32
23 Aug 2022, 00:57#32

Here….this is what these all knowing  scientists were saying about 2020 in the year 1990


‘In theory, past emissions of these gases have com- mitted the earth to a warming of 1-2.5 degrees Cover pre-industrial levels. In practice, a rise of about 0.5 degrees C has been observed during the past century, almost half of which has been since 1965. The ma- jority view of scientists is that, by 2020 global mean temperatures will have risen to 1.8OC above pre- industrial levels (range 1.3 - 2SoC),with an increase in global mean precipitation and evaporation of 3%.’

….


So the majority view was an increase of 1.8 degrees….in other words about 1 degree above where we were in 1990. But actually it’s accepted by most scientists that we are at 1.2 degrees. 

But it gets worse….the only reason it was limited to 1.8 degrees was in those days skeptics still had a voice. The guys feeding you garbage today were  probably in the 2.4 degree range

So over that period the majority of scientists over projected temperature increases by 2.5 times. But the leading edge over projected the increase by a factor of 4.

Scepticism of these models and scientists  is totally reasonable.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
23 Aug 2022, 01:45
#33
23 Aug 2022, 01:45#33

My PhD was in economics and applied mathematics.

So not a climatologist then?

I have technically reviewed hundreds of statistical models….I understand their limitations.

If only you understood the limitations of your own ego.

You clearly don’t….you are just regurgitating the propaganda you read.

What I've posted on climate change is backed up by countless hours of scientific research that's been published in peer reviewed scientific journals, aka the scientific process. You on the other hand post conspiracy wank about the vast majority climate scientists across the world promoting climate change just to get funding.

Multiple locations bring in additional variables….that can be a good thing, except if those variables are not statistically independent….if they are combined in  ways that aren’t neutral. 

Tracking a single variable eliminates the random variability introduced by averaging which is constantly being tinkered with….off you go, Google some more.

Blah blah blah, the scientists reading the temperature's are incompetent, blah blah they can't adjust for variables or differences in the way temperatures are recorded in different regions, blah blah blah I have no evidence to back any of that up...but hey isn't that all wonderfully convenient, blah blah blah, yawn.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Aug 2022, 04:51
#34
23 Aug 2022, 04:51#34

You started the insults Anger….in response I merely gave you the facts. In your world, having  no views of your own, but believing  a group of people who have got it wrong from the start is the ticket.. Heard much about the reversal of the Gulf Stream lately? Just another one of the fantasies that have bitten the dust.


An increase of 0.6 degrees that may be attributable to some man made effects but probably also includes natural causes. No credible way to power the planet in the next 30 years without oil and a bunch of useless legislation which will be mostly harmful but suits politicians’ needs

Thats where we are but unquestioning believers like you really think all this stuff is responsible. In fact much of it will simply pull carbon release forward. If politicians really wanted to solve this problem, if they thought it was existential they would build nuclear plants and negotiate new economy standards with the auto companies.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
23 Aug 2022, 06:45
#35
23 Aug 2022, 06:45#35
So not a climatologist then? “ Nice appeal to authority :/
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
23 Aug 2022, 07:49
#36
23 Aug 2022, 07:49#36

I still don't see any doable plan to counter "man made global warming", if that's what it is. Whatchoo gonna do? Get everyone to stop consuming while that's all that big commercial corporations encourage them to do? Shut down Amazon? Stop cutting down forests? Kill all the cattle in the world? Switch to "sustainable power" while fossil fuel power can hardly keep up with the demand? It's a pipe dream. The earth will correct itself once conditions on the planet doesn't allow for life anymore. To think that selfish man as a collective can reverse any destructive course it has embarked on is madness. Fuck it we can't even set up proper recycling or toss our refuse in a bin. The really simple stuff. We are lazy shits wired for destruction.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Aug 2022, 15:02
#37
23 Aug 2022, 15:02#37

However climate changes, whether naturally or partially because of our greenhouse emissions, man will adapt. For that not to  be the case you have to assume accelerating effects, like the nutty reversal of the Gulf Stream prediction, none of which have emerged.

Is this stuff possible, I suppose so….but shifting the carbon curve by 10 years isn’t going to change those unlikely scenarios…and we might as well worry about other more likely things like asteroids hitting the earth or the super volcano inYellowstone exploding into life.

The real risk is for future generations, the eight billion that will soon become 10 billion, who will have to live their lives without abundant oil. That’s a good reason to try to conserve and find other sources of energy like new nuclear plants.

All these people, mostly clustered round huge cities wouldn’t last beyond the food in their pantries, were it not for oil. It’s the lifeblood of modern life….the one thing that allowed mankind’s numbers to explode. And yet here we are vilifying it.

If there is one good thing that has come out of Covid it’s that this dependency has been clearly demonstrated. Were it not for that, the halfhearted anti oil legislation currently being pursued for political reasons would have been far worse.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,201 posts
23 Aug 2022, 15:26
#38
23 Aug 2022, 15:26#38

The only way fossil fuel will be fazed out is when alternative energy sources are cheaper and as readily available. 

Even if the West stopped using fossil fuel, China and others will continue to do so until a comparable replacement is found.

The price of oil is sure to increase because resources are depleting quickly. Estimates vary by article. 
That alone should drive innovation in producing energy from alternate sources. 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
23 Aug 2022, 16:41
#39
23 Aug 2022, 16:41#39

"The real risk is for future generations, the eight billion that will soon become 10 billion"

Agreed moz

At some point in the distant future, this will have to be addressed.... it cannot continue indefinitely

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Aug 2022, 17:04
#40
23 Aug 2022, 17:04#40

Stv

The last major continentwide heat wave in Euripe was in 1997 - when scientists made dire predictions that never materialized.    Since then there was no major heatwaves  - a few days hotter than normal at local areas.    The latest "heatwave" lasted I believe 2 days and vanish afterwards.  

When large areas is hit by cold temperatures and covered n ice - like happened in the USA last year - the global warming adherents claim is  proves nothing - but a hsortlasting heatwave in for instance the London area is a major example to be quoted endlessly.

The idea that mankind control the natural  climate cycles is too ridiculous to beleieve and comes from leftist propaganda using it for enhancement  of their political careers.   A classical example is what Alexandria Otasio-Cortez claim the world will end in 2032 if drastic and immediate action is not taken iro global warming.  So a wag decided that she be the Democratic Party Presidential candiodate in 2032.   

Another disastrous forecaster is a 16 year-old Swedish  dyslexic girl to sc are eople into submission is part f the disinformation scheme used by politicians to scare people to beleiv their BS spreading.

Scientists differ on many things - but to differ from some scientists advocating their global warming theory is apparently not acceptable and treasonous.   I would rather believe as an 80 year old experienced in that time  minor variations in temperatures over the period.  Sometimes it was slightly hotter than normal - sometimes it was colder.     At no time was the variations exceptional like some scientists claimed it  is.

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