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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Israel/USA Versus Iran

Israel/USA Versus Iran

Started by sharkbok126 REPLIES1,178 VIEWS· 28 Feb 2026, 12:45
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ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
02 Mar 2026, 21:20
#41
02 Mar 2026, 21:20#41

Anger slopes back in after avoiding the Rubio string for days……welcome back.


Ahh you missed me, that's so sweet. Don't worry I'm back to bring some meaning to your life.


Yes and Iran went right on enriching uranium


Now tell me which happened first, the US withdrawing from the deal or Iran's resumption of enriching uranium?


Okay strike later, in the meantime allow them to commit the atrocities to opposition protestors we have just wittnessed.


Blimey that was a fast transition. So the rational is no longer an imminent threat nor a threat several years down the road of Iran wiping out cities around the world, it's to protect opposition protesters from being killed by the regime, something that had largely stopped several weeks ago, something Trump himself acknowledged and even accredited to himself at the time.


It's absolutely true that regime in Iran partook in a brutal and barbaric crack down that killed thousands of people and nor was it the first time it had done so. However is that enough justification for acting, their is many brutal oppressive regimes around? Is the US going to target Somalia, Myanmar or North Korea next, if not why not?


But those Wokies who are rightly so outraged about the Ukraine are oddly silent on Iran. My theory is most Woke outrage is mostly anti Trump outrage.


What are supposed to silent on again?. None of us here have any love for the Iranian regime and it would be a wonderful thing if the regime was to fall and it's in place something better emerges that benefits not only the Iranian people but the region as a whole and that occurring is s a possibility, but it's just one of many and as we have seen from Iraq and Afghanistan things often don't turn out as one would hope for.


There is far more anti Trump material on here than anti Putin material. Hypocrites.


That's funny coming from you, where we see far more criticism of the US's long term allies as opposed to the countries that are supposedly the US's enemies namely China and Russia.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Mar 2026, 21:48
#42
02 Mar 2026, 21:48#42

Now tell me which happened first, the US withdrawing from the deal or Iran's resumption of enriching uranium?


Ukraine under the treaty was allowed to continue to enrich Uranium, but in limited amounts. It gave effectively 9 months of protection for lifting of sanctions, a very good deal for Iran:


The deal’s central goal:

Ensure Iran would need at least 12 months to produce enough weapons-grade uranium for one bomb.

Before the deal:

  1. Breakout time ? 2–3 months

After the deal:

  1. ? 12 months or more

That gave time for detection and response.





Blimey that was a fast transition. So the rational is no longer an imminent threat nor a threat several years down the road of Iran wiping out cities around the world


No the threat remains a nuclear Iran….the point about loss of life is simply to decry the convenient hypocrisy of those who are suddenly concerned about Iranian lives.


None of us here have any love for the Iranian regime and it would be a wonderful thing if the regime was to fall and it's in place something better emerges that benefits not only the Iranian people but the region as a whole and that occurring is s a possibility, but it's just one of many and as we have seen from Iraq and Afghanistan things often don't turn out as one would hope for.



So how is that supposed to happen when the incumbent dictator had full control of the military….without outside help?


That's funny coming from you, where we see far more criticism of the US's long term allies as opposed to the countries that are supposedly the US's enemies namely China and Russia.


Criticism vs condemnation. I’m critical of European incompetence, and I condemn Putin’s invasion of the Ukraine.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
02 Mar 2026, 22:33
#43
02 Mar 2026, 22:33#43

H

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
02 Mar 2026, 22:35
#44
02 Mar 2026, 22:35#44

Yes, there was a deal with Iran in 2015, but America pulled out of that deal in 2018. What was that all about?


And now you ask why I didn’t post about the protest massacres in Iran? For your information, I might not have posted on Ruckus Forum because at that stage I was dealing with a private family issue.


That doesn’t mean I didn’t condemn it. I did talk about it in my family circles. I condemn those attacks just as much as I condemn the war in Ukraine, and I condemn the war that Trump is causing right now.


There is other ways of dealing with this problem and going in bombs blazing should not be a option. As it's always with fucking war, the innocent die and gets written off as collateral damage. Fucking great That's how little life means nowadays. And here you are supporting that shit.


Moz, Calling me a zealot or woke is just lazy. It’s an easy label so you don’t have to deal with the actual argument. That’s not debate, that’s avoidance.


I supported some of the things Trump said at first. But now, he’s an ego driven maniac who lied to America and the world, saying he would stop wars and negotiate.


Instead he invaded Venezuela for oil and kidnapped their president, saying he is saving the country from a dictator.


What utter Bull Shit he did it for his own greed and power. Then he is threatening to take over Greenland, and now he’s attacking Iran. What a fake.


What good does it bring sending troops there to die and killing innocent people?


And another thing: you’re saying Iran would threaten a nuclear response if they had the capability? That's assumption not fact.


Fact is America, Russia and China, can flatten cities at will. So why is it okay for them to have this insane fire power?? If you think nuclear bombs are dangerous, then all countries should give them up. No one should have them!


And what is your obsession with “woke"...If anyone dare criticize Trump then they woke. Even people liking alternative energy is woke? That’s dumb and ignorant.


So again I ask, what good does sending troops into Iran actually do? How does it fix anything?


Trump is just creating more war, more ethnic tension, more strife. You can call me an anti Trump zealot all you want, but the fact is, I supported him at first, I believed in change, and now it’s clear he’s not the right person to lead.


He’s losing his fucking marbles, and the world is paying the price. You want to talk hypocrisy? You want to talk outrage?


Start by looking at the bloodshed that your “hero” Trump is causing right now, before blaming anyone else.

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
02 Mar 2026, 22:42
#45
02 Mar 2026, 22:42#45

Moz, Calling me a zealot or woke is just lazy. It’s an easy label so you don’t have to deal with the actual argument. That’s not debate, that’s avoidance.


Give this man a medal.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Mar 2026, 23:37
#46
02 Mar 2026, 23:37#46

So let’s deal with a few points:


And now you ask why I didn’t post about the protest massacres in Iran? For your information, I might not have posted on Ruckus Forum because at that stage I was dealing with a private family issue.


That doesn’t mean I didn’t condemn it. I did talk about it in my family circles. I condemn those attacks just as much as I condemn the war in Ukraine, and I condemn the war that Trump is causing right now.



Fair enough, but given you were making such a point today about lives lost, it wouldn’t be too much to ask to point out that the deposed dictator has many more lives on his rap sheet.


There is other ways of dealing with this problem and going in bombs blazing should not be a option. As it's always with fucking war, the innocent die and gets written off as collateral damage. Fucking great That's how little life means nowadays. And here you are supporting that shit.


You can argue that it isn’t worth the cost to remove the regime, but this lot was never going to go without military intervention.


Moz, Calling me a zealot or woke is just lazy. It’s an easy label so you don’t have to deal with the actual argument. That’s not debate, that’s avoidance.


Fair Point, and perhaps you would also refrain from implying I’m a coward for supposedly wanting to send young men into war.


Instead he invaded Venezuela for oil and kidnapped their president, saying he is saving the country from a dictator.


He never invaded Venezuela, he decapitated the regime….the oil will in part be used to pay the country’s outstanding Legal obligations and the rest will be for the benefit of the Venezuelan people.


And another thing: you’re saying Iran would threaten a nuclear response if they had the capability? That's assumption not fact.


No it’s not a fact, just a very high probability.


Fact is America, Russia and China, can flatten cities at will. So why is it okay for them to have this insane fire power?? If you think nuclear bombs are dangerous, then all countries should give them up. No one should have them!


Nobody said it’s okay, just a fact of life. Proliferation to countries like Iran makes the risk of an unintended event much greater.


And what is your obsession with “woke"...If anyone dare criticize Trump then they woke. Even people liking alternative energy is woke? That’s dumb and ignorant.


Alternative energy is a good idea, but assuming 8 billion people can be weaned off oil in a few decades is a crazy idea and if seriously implemented would have caused more deaths than all the dictators in history combined. Woke is the modern version of religion with all it’s intolerance.


Trump is just creating more war, more ethnic tension, more strife. You can call me an anti Trump zealot all you want, but the fact is, I supported him at first, I believed in change, and now it’s clear he’s not the right person to lead.


He’s losing his fucking marbles, and the world is paying the price. You want to talk hypocrisy? You want to talk outrage?


Start by looking at the bloodshed that your “hero” Trump is causing right now, before blaming anyone else.


There is probably more bloodshed in Cape Town on a Saturday night than Trump has caused in 5 years in office. And if you assess the potential loss of life in the conflicts he settled, he is way in the negative column.


……..


Yes the attack on Iran will cost lives and one could always have extended the negotiations. But the ME has a long history of settlements that implode over time. As long as Iran is radical, Palestine and others will be radical and Israel will be under threat. All this is of vast detriment to the people of the whole ME, which is why neighboring countries are quietly in favor of the attack,


It may not succeed, Iraq didn’t. But trying to acheive something difficult, is better than accepting permanent conflict and terrorism. In a more united world this regime would have been removed years ago








ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
03 Mar 2026, 01:10
#47
03 Mar 2026, 01:10#47

Now tell me which happened first, the US withdrawing from the deal or Iran's resumption of enriching uranium?


Ukraine under the treaty was allowed to continue to enrich Uranium, but in limited amounts. It gave effectively 9 months of protection for lifting of sanctions, a very good deal for Iran:


The deal’s central goal:

Ensure Iran would need at least 12 months to produce enough weapons-grade uranium for one bomb.

Before the deal:

  1. Breakout time ? 2–3 months

After the deal:

  1. ? 12 months or more

That gave time for detection and response.


Okay since you didn't answer the question, I'll answer it for you.


America unilaterally withdrew from the JPOCA in 2018, reimposing sanctions in the process.


Iran began exceeding agreed enrichment levels about one year later.


Long and the short of it, Iran came to a agreement with the US and others, it was the United States that did not honour it, so your argument of 45 years negotiating with Iran and no deal is out the window.


No the threat remains a nuclear Iran….the point about loss of life is simply to decry the convenient hypocrisy of those who are suddenly concerned about Iranian lives.


It remains a potential nuclear threat...several years down the line. There was no threat that warranted action right now. I'm not seeing any hypocrisy.


So how is that supposed to happen when the incumbent dictator had full control of the military….without outside help?


Regime's like the Iranian one's can eventually crumble due to constant internal unrest and protests causing it to weaken over time and factions that support the regime could grow tired of it and switch sides. Outside pressure from other countries can also assist with that. Now of course it's not guaranteed, it's a slow process and likely more Iranian civilian's will suffer, but there has been several cases of it happening in the past.


On the flip side there is no guarantee that outside military intervention will help. While it might, no one can predict what sort of consequences will come from this military action.


Criticism vs condemnation. I’m critical of European incompetence, and I condemn Putin’s invasion of the Ukraine.


You condemn Putin, yet advocate appeasing him?.




MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Mar 2026, 02:27
#48
03 Mar 2026, 02:27#48

Okay since you didn't answer the question, I'll answer it for you.


Long and the short of it, Iran came to a agreement with the US and others, it was the United States that did not honour it, so your argument of 45 years negotiating with Iran and no deal is out the window.


Once again you asked Chat the wrong questions. The agreement didn’t limit Iran’s ability to work on nuclear weapons, just pushed back enrichment 9 months. They never agreed not to pursue Nuclear Weapons, they agreed to a technical limitation that gave them huge financial benefits. As Trump said, a most dangerous agreement.


Summary — 2015 to 2018

Did Iran work on delivery systems? ? Yes.

Did the JCPOA stop or meaningfully limit that? ? No.

Did Iran test or deploy new missiles during the deal? ? Yes.

Were these missiles technically capable of carrying a nuclear weapon if one existed? ? Yes, medium-range ballistic missiles are capable delivery platforms.



It remains a potential nuclear threat...several years down the line. There was no threat that warranted action right now. I'm not seeing any hypocrisy.


So your idea is we confront it only when it’s a proven threat….now that’s brilliant Paddy.


Regime's like the Iranian one's can eventually crumble due to constant internal unrest and protests causing it to weaken over time and factions that support the regime could grow tired of it and switch sides. Outside pressure from other countries can also assist with that. Now of course it's not guaranteed, it's a slow process and likely more Iranian civilian's will suffer, but there has been several cases of it happening in the past


I see constant unrest, and the unspoken part, years of torture and death. So we worry about the rights of the Ayatollah and not the citizens. And what examples of a religious dictatorship with full army backing that flipped did you have in mind?



DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2026, 03:54
#49
03 Mar 2026, 03:54#49

This is not technically a war, it's a military operation to reach a certain objective ..we don't know on what the intel is they on what they decided to act on...we also don't know the extent of the objective s..time will tell...the loss of life is a tragedy, but who knows what the alternative is/was...this too will will blow over in less than 2 months.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2026, 06:52
#50
03 Mar 2026, 06:52#50

Tevnicall it would become a war when the SA use troops onm the ground t atack Iran. At this stahe it is missie and air attacks aied at the Ayatollh dictarship. The USA and NATO has launched aerial atacks has in the case of a long list of countries over the last 30 years which was never entail troups on the ground action and called wars,


Now suddenly all the idiots regard this as a war - while it entails only missiie and air attacks. Iran is nvolved in a long sring of wars in the ME and Africa. and provide arms to Russia in the Ukaiine War and was involved in civil wars in Yemen and Syria. The are involved in present terrorism in Mozambique , Sudan and a dozen other coubntries in the mE and Africa, The fund and provide arms to the terrorism in countries,


What is even worse is that the Ayatollah Regime imported Taliban terrorists from Afghanistan and Pakistan to attack and murder protestors in Iran, In the latest protests in January they promised not to startthe normal murder of protestors and then theys tarted attacks on Kurds and Amenians living in part of Iran - but in the two latest protests ,ore than a 150 000 protestors have been murdered by the Ayatollah Regime. That is OK with soe ste members - which they regard as acceptable and the condemn action to stop terrorism worldwide.


Amazing BS!!!


,

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
03 Mar 2026, 11:53
#51
03 Mar 2026, 11:53#51

Once again you asked Chat the wrong questions. The agreement didn’t limit Iran’s ability to work on nuclear weapons, just pushed back enrichment 9 months. They never agreed not to pursue Nuclear Weapons, they agreed to a technical limitation that gave them huge financial benefits. As Trump said, a most dangerous agreement.


I didn't need to ask chat anything as I was already aware of the timeline so I simply asked a very relevant question directly to you to expose your dishonesty and/or lazy response of 'Yes and Iran went right on enriching uranium'. Your follow up responses are just evasion. Iran came to a deal, the US broke the deal. End of story.


So your idea is we confront it only when it’s a proven threat….now that’s brilliant Paddy.


Strawman.


I see constant unrest, and the unspoken part, years of torture and death. So we worry about the rights of the Ayatollah and not the citizens. And what examples of a religious dictatorship with full army backing that flipped did you have in mind?


I acknowledged Iranian's would continue to suffer. Are you going to acknowledge the risks involved in current Trump's approach? But yeah, I'm really concerned about the Ayatollah's rights...sure man. There is plenty of examples where authoritarian regimes have been brought down by people, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Romania. Their not a 1 to 1 match with present day Iran but then very few things in history are a 1 to 1 match.


What examples of regime change have worked out well for the US in the past? Iran, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan?


This is not technically a war, it's a military operation to reach a certain objective


LOL, that is very Kremlin sounding. This is not a war, it's a Special Military Operation.


we don't know on what the intel is they on what they decided to act on


Well according to Rubio the decision was made by the US when they learned Israel was going to attack Iran and out of concern about retaliation they opted to join in on the initial attack.


but who knows what the alternative is/was


Emm...not war perhaps?


this too will will blow over in less than 2 months.


So blasé about the whole thing. Again if Biden had done this I'm not sure we would getting the same response.












CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2026, 13:31
#52
03 Mar 2026, 13:31#52

Shit spreading galore,


The Iranian people hates the regime and theyobviously told he USAand Israel where he Ayatollah and his top aides were for them to be killed. They are clebrating in the streets.


So the next taget will be the conclave where a new Ayatollah is to be elected by 80 representatives, Al the attendees will be bombed out of exisstence, Even if they hold it in a bomb shelter thy will die,


OK the killing of Iranians became an issue.- nobody complain because the Ayatollah regime imported Taliban supporters from Pakistan and Afghanistan to murder Irainians in their thousands because of the protetsain January 2026 since thy dio not even trusttheir own people.


The air attacks are targetted operations and less Iranians will be illed than was killed in the past month by the Regime murderers,


In the case of Venezuela Maduro did not trust his own people so his guards were from Cuba. The Ayatollah Regime is in the same situation - so they ue the Taliban to kill Iranians on their behalf.


The USA is not imposing a new Goernment in Venezuela Within the enxt six months a proper election under international supervision will be held in Venezuela. The same is bound to happen in Iran.


It is doubtful whether the A yatollah Regime has mor than 20% support in Iran - same as was the case with Maduro. It is extremely cruel to apply religious beieves as justice in modern times. .




MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 14:38
#53
03 Mar 2026, 14:38#53

The point I raised wasn’t whether Iran’s regime is bad. It’s that Trump promised a platform of de escalation and peace negotiations. But instead he lied to regain power and did the opposite. You don’t answer that, you just dodge.


Firstly which deposed dictator are you referring to? Name him. Secondly how will you prove that this dictator has more lives on his rap sheet?


You say the regime would never go without military intervention. According to who? You? Trump? America? On what authority?


You object to me implying cowardice, but when someone supports military intervention, while personally bearing none of the risk, what are you supposed to call that?


You still haven’t answered the simple question: what good will this intervention actually do that outweighs the bloodshed?


On Venezuela, calling it “decapitation” instead of invasion doesn’t change the facts. Strategic interests, especially oil, don’t magically become humanitarian because you rename them :)


And yes, the nuclear threat you keep bringing up is still assumption, not fact. Making war decisions based on projected intentions is dangerous and ignorant.


You mostly reduce every disagreement to “woke” or “zealot.” Not everyone who questions intervention is radical. Not everyone who once supported Trump has to support his every action forever.


I never said 8 billion people must be off oil in a few decades. I said alternative energy is a good add on to lessen dependence on fossil fuels in our last discussion. Don't put words in my mouth.


Your obsession with “woke” makes me wonder if you're not secretly a "wokey" :)


You say there’s more bloodshed in Cape Town on a Saturday night than Trump caused in five years. Is this a assumption or do you have prove?


You say he’s “way in the negative column” for life and conflict. Show the conflicts he supposedly settled and how many lives were saved.


This idea that as long as Iran is radical, everyone else will be radical, and Israel is under threat, is speculation. Same reasoning used to justify wars in the past.


War is mostly about money. Defence companies make billions. You can’t pretend that doesn’t matter. And yes some radicals do exist...but how big is that percentage in comparison to the innocent ones?


You also say: “So we’re worried about the rights of the Ayatollah, not the citizens." Tell me, whose rights is Trump actually thinking about here??


You’re saying innocent people should die for a small group of extremists? That logic makes zero sense. Extremism exists everywhere, including in Western governments.


At the end of the day, you reduce everything to black or white. Either you’re pro Trump or woke. Either military action is necessary or you’re naive.


There’s a middle ground you know. There are consequences. Whether you like it or not, not all Muslims are fanatical...real human lives are involved.

SH
sharkbokCaptain20,097 posts
03 Mar 2026, 15:19
#54
03 Mar 2026, 15:19#54

The Trumpanzee species will never hold its master to account. They all deplore the Bush Iraq war, but when Trump does it, it is fantastic. That is despite Trump promising to be a no-war president and bring the troops home to save money.


Trump's first year of his second term shows him to be the most war-driven US president ever. That also does not include threats to make Canada the 51st State, take Greenland by any means possible, nor ruling out force. Then, more recently, Iceland. And to make Southern America a subsidiary of America etc - in their sphere of influence.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2026, 15:32
#55
03 Mar 2026, 15:32#55

"This is not technically a war, it's a military operation to reach a certain objective


LOL, that is very Kremlin sounding. This is not a war, it's a Special Military Operation.


Boo, er no. There was no declaration of war by America...this is military action by POTUS. He can't declare war and there are limits.


we don't know on what the intel is they on what they decided to act on


Well according to Rubio the decision was made by the US when they learned Israel was going to attack Iran and out of concern about retaliation they opted to join in on the initial attack.


That was part of it, surely not everything.


but who knows what the alternative is/was


Emm...not war perhaps?...duh, you're being silly. You know perfectly well what I meant


this too will will blow over in less than 2 months.


So blasé about the whole thing. Again if Biden had done this I'm not sure we would getting the same response.


Opposes to you lefties running around as if your hair were on fire... it's not blase, it's seeing the big picture...the Iranian regime has been committing acts of evil for 45 years...you lot will criticize Trump if he went to war with the Devil.


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
03 Mar 2026, 15:37
#56
03 Mar 2026, 15:37#56

Draad, we criticise Bozo because he's an ignorant, vain, amoral, self-serving and petulant buffoon . . . not because he's started a new war.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2026, 16:12
#57
03 Mar 2026, 16:12#57

SB


The Trumpanzee species will never hold its master to account. They all deplore the Bush Iraq war, but when Trump does it - it is fantastic. That is despite Trump promising to be a no wars president, and bring the troops home to save money.


Shit galore as expected from SB. Bish was warned NOT to send ground troops to Iraq and Afghnaistan even by Trump. There is a huge difference between wars and targetted missile and air attcks, So this is where the difference is, Trump did a lot in ending wars in various cou ntries through negoptiations.- but nobody give him credit for that. Trump will never sent ground troops into Iran and that is where a war declaration if=s needed by Sente and the House.


Trump's first year of his second term shows him to be the most war driven US president ever. That also does not include threats to make Canada the 51st State, take Greenland by any means possible - nor ruling out force. Then more recently Iceland.


Shotspreader do you now what wars actually entail as against targetted air attacks withspecific objectves in mind.


Your hatred of Trump takes precedence over everything else. You prefer Maduro and the Ayatollah being in charge in Venezuela and Iran,


By the way Shitbrain - Iran used drones to attack a UK base in Cypress and now the UK is going o send one of its ery few warships to Cypress. Iran leaxdership is in panic and they now they are not going to remain in power - so they attack other countries in the ME and even NATO members.


Your raviongs about oil is just plain stupid. Oil was the reason for the Iraq war and the UK and NATO was involved in the Iran War based on lies about weapons of mass destruction as an excuse


Lets g back in history a bit - the Traq wars were not ended by Obama. The idiot decded in 2011 to end the Iraq War by withdrawing all US troops from Iraq and for that he got the Nobel Peace Price. In 2013 ISIS started an attack on Iraq and by 2014 Obama send 200 troops to train the Iraq army to resist the ISIS attacks. When Trump became President in 2017 was near to captureof Baghdad and Trump sent in troops to destroy ISIS which was done in three months,


Trump really wants no wars - but some despots like Putin and the Ayatollah egime wants wars all over the world - but Trump's efforts to negotiate are ignored by the despots,


. .


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2026, 16:15
#58
03 Mar 2026, 16:15#58

Rooinek


Draad, we criticise Bozo because he's an ignorant, vain, amoral, self-serving and petulant buffoon . . . not because he's started a new war.


Self-opiniated BS.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Mar 2026, 16:17
#59
03 Mar 2026, 16:17#59

What examples of regime change have worked out well for the US in the past? Iran, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan?


You have conveniently reframed the question. Here it is again:


And what examples of a religious dictatorship with full army backing that flipped did you have in mind?


Iran under the Shah, Iraq under Hussein were not religious dictatorships. Nor was Haiti under Papa Doc. And I’m not sure what you are referencing in Afghanistan.


Try again, what religious dictatorships with army backing were overthrown by patient, non confrontational attempts at regime change.



ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
03 Mar 2026, 16:31
#60
03 Mar 2026, 16:31#60

Boo, er no. There was no declaration of war by America...this is military action by POTUS. He can't declare war and there are limits.


Yeah there no declaration of war by Russia either. Going by your logic there is no war in Ukraine either.


.duh, you're being silly. You know perfectly well what I meant


I'm not being silly, there is so no credible evidence being presented that there was an imminent threat that required military action.


Opposes to you lefties running around as if your hair were on fire... it's not blase, it's seeing the big picture...the Iranian regime has been committing acts of evil for 45 years...you lot will criticize Trump if he went to war with the Devil.


And you will lot will just uncritically go along with everything he does. No matter how much it contradicts previous positions or no matter the risks involved.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Mar 2026, 16:40
#61
03 Mar 2026, 16:40#61

The point I raised wasn’t whether Iran’s regime is bad. It’s that Trump promised a platform of de escalation and peace negotiations. But instead he lied to regain power and did the opposite. You don’t answer that, you just dodge.


  1. Israel and Hamas (Gaza): Claimed to have brokered a ceasefire and hostage release deal.
  2. Israel and Iran: Claimed to have stopped a war between the two nations after U.S. intervention/bombing of Iranian nuclear facilities in June 2025.
  3. Armenia and Azerbaijan: Claimed to have brokered a peace agreement in August 2025 regarding the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
  4. Cambodia and Thailand: Claimed to have stopped a 2025 border conflict by threatening to stall trade deals.
  5. India and Pakistan: Claimed to have mediated a ceasefire between the nuclear-armed neighbors in May 2025.
  6. Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda: Claimed to have ended 30 years of conflict in late 2025 through U.S.-mediated negotiations.
  7. Serbia and Kosovo: Claimed to have prevented a war and brokered economic normalization.
  8. Egypt and Ethiopia: Claimed to have prevented a conflict over the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam.
  9. The Times +4

Trump’s claims about the extent of his role in these conflicts may be over the top, but at least he was involved and mostly these were settled without conflict.


…. …..


Firstly which deposed dictator are you referring to? Name him. Secondly how will you prove that this dictator has more lives on his rap sheet?


The Ayatollah Ali Khamenei…..hello…..you are reading the news?


There is no precise public total of civilian deaths under Ayatollah Khamenei’s rule. However:

  1. Thousands to possibly multiple tens of thousands of civilians have died in protest crackdowns and executions over his tenure.
  2. The 2025–26 crackdown alone is reported by credible sources to have resulted in at least ~5,000–20,000+ civilian deaths, possibly more.

The lack of transparent data and severe restrictions on reporting inside Iran make exact tallies difficult.

…….


I could go on ploughing through all the points you raise….but it’s clearly a waste of my time. Believe what you like. The one thing you have said that makes sense is ‘there is a middle ground’. Search for it.


MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 19:13
#62
03 Mar 2026, 19:13#62

"Opposes to you lefties running around as if your hair were on fire... it's not blase, it's seeing the big picture...the Iranian regime has been committing acts of evil for 45 years...you lot will criticize Trump if he went to war with the Devil."


DB, it's really convenient to label everyone instead of actually debating the main issue.


The main issue is that Donald Trump lied. Plain and simple. He promised to de-escalate, negotiate peace, stop wars and then did the opposite.


None of you guys want to deal with that.Think about it...if someone lied to you to get what they wanted, would you trust them again??


Now, about Iran. Yes, the regime has done terrible things. But the Question is: does Donald Trump have reasonable, articulable suspicion that Iran have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime before they can lawfully start bombing them??


Although there is no such evidence, Trump and Israel go in, bombs blazing, and the Trump supporters back him without questioning the validity.


How is that suppose to make sense? Explain that. And who is really suffering with these Military attacks? The innocent people of Iran.


And no one talks about oppression at home...in America or even here in South Africa...or the percentage of real fanatics in Iran.


How many Evil Fanatics are actually causing real problems in Iran or are a real threat to the rest of the world?


Law-abiding Muslims are outnumbering extremists by hundreds or thousands to one or maybe even more, and yet they get killed in the crossfire.


And while you all defend this, think about what Trump actually does. He sits back safely in Mar-a-Lago feeding his gluttony while other people die.


Wouldn't it make more sense to send a small Special Forces group target the extremists with precise action instead of bombing an entire country and killing thousands of innocents?


Also, this “Trump would go to war with the devil” nonsense is exactly that...nonsense. He’s not fighting the devil, he’s killing more innocent people than actually killing the real evil regime...end of story.


Don’t just cheer on war because it fits an agenda or labels someone as evil. Innocent lives are involved, and that matters.


By the way the pro Trump guys conduct themselves on here, it doesn't really look like you care about those innocent Iranian lives and it's most probably futile trying to discuss it with you any further.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 19:18
#63
03 Mar 2026, 19:18#63

Moz, you listed several conflicts and said Trump “claimed” involvement. Claims are not proof. Where is the concrete evidence of measurable results? Without that, it’s narrative, not fact.


You also referenced reports suggesting that up to 20,000 civilians may have died under Khamenei during crackdowns. If credible evidence shows that, then I condemn those deaths.


Loss of innocent life is wrong, full stop. But you raise those numbers without once condemning innocent lives lost in military interventions you support.


And yes, there is a middle ground. But you actually have to engage with facts and avoid dodging.


If the regime is the problem, why justify broad bombing that harms civilians rather than precise action against those directly responsible? Bringing up past Horror does not automatically justify present bloodshed.


Also Moz, you skipped over the majority of the points i raised and declared the discussion a waste of your time. That pattern speaks for itself.


Debate requires engagement, not a condescending tone toward other people. If you choose not to engage, that’s fine, but don’t pretend it’s because there are no arguments to answer.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2026, 19:31
#64
03 Mar 2026, 19:31#64

Well, I'm happy the evil scumbag is dead and his top brass are also blown to hell.


I see some of the other Arab nations are demanding the US allow them to help get rid of the rest of the regime.


...and then there is, of course, the Iranian people who finally have something better to look forward to than an evil bunch of pricks that subjugate women and kill people for leaving their dumb religion.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Mar 2026, 20:03
#65
03 Mar 2026, 20:03#65

Debate requires engagement, not a condescending tone toward other people. If you choose not to engage, that’s fine, but don’t pretend it’s because there are no arguments to answer.


You mean this kind of condescending tone, literally the first time we engaged on this topic:


’Easy for you to justify bloodshed when you don't have to go and fight...typical Trump supporter hypocrisy’.


You’re just parroting the same old excuses that sound good until you actually look at what’s happening. Keep your hypocrisy. I’m talking reality.


That’s engagement? I don’t agree with everything Trump is doing, never have, he wasn’t even my pick for the Republican ticket. But much of what he is doing is right and ridding the world of Khamenei and Maduro strikes me as right.


So debate by all means, but don’t expect civil discourse when you start the debate with insults.


MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 21:07
#66
03 Mar 2026, 21:07#66

"You mean this kind of condescending tone, literally the first time we engaged on this topic"


Yeah, I know...I stand by my words. You’re sitting far away, judging lives while it’s others who pay the cost. That’s what I meant by hypocrisy, not insults.


If you want to take it as an insult, fine, be my guest, but I was just calling it out because I see it as a moral double standard.


And the only reason I mentioned the condescending tone is just to point out the mirror effect...what you’re doing mirrors what I said first.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 21:09
#67
03 Mar 2026, 21:09#67

Khamenei and his top command were taken out in a joint U.S. & Israeli airstrike, beginning March 2026.


At the same time, reports say 800 civilians also died in the strikes. Ordinary people. Khamenei's Wife to. Not generals.


So here’s the question:


Is that an acceptable level of collateral damage??


If the objective was one man and his inner circle, wouldn’t a targeted special forces operation have limited civilian loss instead of large-scale bombing?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2026, 22:19
#68
03 Mar 2026, 22:19#68

"I'm not being silly, there is so no credible evidence being presented that there was an imminent threat that required military action."


The fact that it's not presented doesn't mean that it doesn't exist...some things are classified for operational security.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2026, 22:23
#69
03 Mar 2026, 22:23#69

"Draad, we criticise Bozo because he's an ignorant, vain, amoral, self-serving and petulant buffoon . . . not because he's started a new war."


A very successful, one ...and actually very charismatic for the non TDS crowd.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2026, 22:26
#70
03 Mar 2026, 22:26#70

"Is that an acceptable level of collateral damage??"


So here's a question...


How many more civilians would be killed by the regime for wanting freedom and the crime of protesting?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2026, 22:26
#71
03 Mar 2026, 22:26#71

"At the same time, reports say 800 civilians also died in the strikes. Ordinary people. Khamenei's Wife to. Not generals."


Small in comparison to the thousands murdered my the regime only a few months ago.

MP
MpowerPro5,061 posts
03 Mar 2026, 23:34
#72
03 Mar 2026, 23:34#72

I find the 800 civilians dead not to be an acceptable collateral damage number.


The reason is, because the U.S. Army have very well-trained special forces, Navy-Seals, Marines, backup teams, best technologies...the works.


If the target was Khamenei and his inner circle, a properly executed operation could have removed them without killing hundreds of innocent people.


Why bomb and cause massive collateral damage when precise options exist?? This isn’t about comparing to the deaths the regime caused.


It’s about choice, responsibility, and morality. 800 innocent lives lost could have been avoided.


The fact that you guys are not even considering other options shows a real disconnect from basic human decency and respect for life.


It’s like because you don’t know those 800 people, their deaths don’t matter. Because the regime killed more, this is suddenly acceptable. That’s a major contradiction.


You can’t say you care about innocent lives and then brush off 800 dead civilians as just collateral damage because it suits your Trump agenda.


That kind of thinking is really worrisome. It lowers the standard of what we should accept, and once you start doing that, it becomes very easy to justify anything.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Mar 2026, 01:55
#73
04 Mar 2026, 01:55#73

Yeah, I know...I stand by my words. You’re sitting far away, judging lives while it’s others who pay the cost. That’s what I meant by hypocrisy, not insults.


What lives am I judging?



The fact that you guys are not even considering other options shows a real disconnect from basic human decency and respect for life.


You can’t say you care about innocent lives and then brush off 800 dead civilians as just collateral damage because it suits your Trump agenda.


You really think a lot of your fellow Board members are uncaring people huh? And you think the forces involved didn’t give a damn about civilian lives. Even though that’s so obviously in the best interest of the mission.


You seem to have all the answers, so what would you do….enlighten us.





BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
04 Mar 2026, 03:05
#74
04 Mar 2026, 03:05#74
Al Jazeera investigation: Iran girls’ school targeting likely ‘deliberate’

Al Jazeera investigation raises questions over deadliest single attack of war on Iran that killed 165 schoolgirls and staff.

The aftermath of an Israel strike on a school in Minab, Iran [Abbas Zakeri/Mehr News/WANA via Reuters]

By Al Jazeera Staff

Published On 3 Mar 20263 Mar 2026

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On Saturday morning, February 28, 2026, dozens of girls gathered at the “Shajareh Tayyebeh” (The Good Tree) school in the city of Minab in southern Iran when Israel and the United States began initial strikes on the country.

As the students began their studies, missiles struck the school, destroying the building and causing the roof to collapse on top of the children and their teachers.

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Iranian authorities have put the final death toll at 165 people, most of them girls aged between 7 and 12. At least 95 other people were wounded in the attack.

As the images of the carnage spread on social media platforms, Israeli and US authorities sought to distance themselves from the attack.

Spokespeople for the US Department of Defense and the Israeli army told Time magazine and The Associated Press news agency that they were unaware that a school had been hit.

Some websites and social media accounts linked to Israel claimed the site was “part of an Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps base”.

However, an analysis by Al Jazeera’s digital investigations unit of satellite imagery compiled over more than a decade, as well as recent video clips, published news reports and statements from official Iranian sources, tells a very different story.

The findings reveal that the school had been clearly separate from an adjacent military site for at least 10 years.

The investigation also shows that the strike pattern raises fundamental questions about the accuracy of intelligence information on which the bombing was based.

It may even raise questions about whether the strike was a deliberate targeting of the school.

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The importance of Minab and the targeted military square

To understand the motives for including Minab in the first US-Israeli targets, the city must be placed within its broader geostrategic context.

Minab is located in Hormozgan in southeastern Iran, a province of enormous military importance as it directly overlooks the Strait of Hormuz and Gulf waters, making it a key hub for the operations of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) naval forces, NEDSA.



The IRGC Navy embraces what is known as an “asymmetric warfare” strategy that relies on deploying fast boats, drones, and coastal missile platforms capable of disrupting shipping or targeting hostile naval vessels.

In this context, the “Sayyid al-Shuhada” military complex in Minab stands out; it includes key headquarters, most notably that of the “Asif Brigade”.

The Asif missile brigade is considered one of the most important strike arms of the IRGC Navy. By reviewing open sources and tracking official Iranian records, important details emerge about the school itself: The Shajareh Tayyebeh school in Minab is part of a broad network of schools structurally and administratively affiliated with the IRGC Navy.

These schools are classified as nonprofit institutions and are primarily intended to provide educational services to the sons and daughters of members of the IRGC Navy.

Registration messages posted on the channel on the Iranian messaging app, “Baleh”- a channel dedicated to communicating with parents of pre-school children at one school in the Shajareh Tayyebeh network – show that admission procedures give priority to the children of military personnel.

In more than one announcement, the children of IRGC Navy members are explicitly invited to attend on specific days to complete first-grade enrolment, with another notice stating that registration for children of non-members opens on different days.

However, this administrative link (to the IRGC) or the identity of the parents does not change the schools’ legal status as civilian facilities under international humanitarian law, unless they were being used in military operations.

And the children who attend them – whether they are the children of military personnel or civilians – remain protected people with special protection in armed conflicts, including the prohibition on intentionally targeting them or carrying out attacks that could harm them.

The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has called the bombing of the school as a “horrific crime and a consolidation of the collapse of civilian protection”, stressing in a statement that the mere presence of military facilities or bases nearby does not change the school’s civilian character, and does not absolve US and Israeli forces of their legal obligation to carefully verify the nature of the target before striking it.

The Monitor emphasised that children and teaching staff remain, in all circumstances, “protected persons” under international humanitarian law, and that any attack that fails to distinguish between them and potential military targets constitutes a serious violation.

What do we know about the strike and its timing?

On Saturday morning, the first day of the school week in Iran, US-Israeli strikes began on the country. Air raids started hitting various sites in the city of Minab and Hormozgan province.

But life in general was proceeding in a near-normal manner; children went to their schools, and photos and videos showed almost normal traffic on the roads surrounding the school.

Documented satellite images from that day show that the school building was still completely intact and had not been hit by any strike until 10:23am local time (06:53 GMT).

[Al Jazeera]

Local and official Iranian sources say that by 10:45am (07:15 GMT), the school was directly hit by a guided missile.

To verify the scope and nature of the strike, Al Jazeera’s Digital Investigations Unit analysed two video clips posted on Telegram shortly after the bombing, and precisely geolocated each by matching visible landmarks with satellite imagery.

The first clip was filmed from a point southwest of the complex (at coordinates: 27°06’28.43? N, 57°04’26.17? E) and documents the first moments of smoke rising from inside the military block affiliated with the Sayyid al-Shuhada base (Asif Brigade), proving that the military base was indeed among the targets hit.

The second clip, however, the most indicative in this investigation, was filmed from a point southeast of the complex (at coordinates: 27°06’23.77? N, 57°05’05.97? E) and provides a wide viewing angle encompassing the entire complex.

[Al Jazeera]

This clip clearly shows two separate columns of thick black smoke rising simultaneously: The first from deep inside the military base, and the second from the geographically independent site of the girls’ school.

The visible distance between the two columns matches the distance separating the two areas as shown by the satellite imagery. This refutes any claim that the damage to the school was caused by shrapnel flying from the adjacent base, and strongly indicates that the school building was subjected to a direct, separate strike.

Timeline of separating the civilian building from the military base

To establish the architectural separation and rebut claims that the bombed building was an active barracks, the investigation team conducted a historical trace of archived satellite images via Google Earth covering the period from 2013 up to just before the 2026 attack. The school site coordinates are (27°06’35.4?N 57°05’05.1?E).

The chronological review reveals deliberate engineering to separate this part of the military complex and convert it entirely to civilian use over the past 10 years.

A 2013 satellite image showing the school area as a contiguous part fully integrated within the wall of the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex and surrounded by guard towers [Google Earth/Al Jazeera]

The images show that the school building and its surrounding area were a connected, integrated part of the main military complex. The outer perimeter wall was unbroken, and the complex was surrounded by five security watchtowers positioned around the corners of the entire compound. There was only one main entry gate serving the whole complex, and the internal road network connected all buildings without barriers.

It can be said with a degree of confidence that, in 2013, the site was used exclusively as a military barracks with a strict security character, as there was no indication of an independent civilian use of any part of the complex.

But this changed radically in 2016. Satellite images dated September 6, 2016 capture the main turning point, when new internal walls were created and built, fully and tightly separating the school building area from the rest of the military block.

At the same time, two of the watch towers overseeing this block were dismantled and removed. Most importantly, three new external gates were opened directly onto the public street to serve students’ and staff entry and exit.

A 2016 aerial shot documenting the radical turning point, as isolating walls were built and three independent external gates were opened to separate the school building from the military barracks [Google Earth/Al Jazeera]

This radical modification documents the construction process and the official removal of the building from the military barracks system, converting it to an independent civilian purpose with dedicated entrances that do not pass through military checkpoints and are 200 to 300 metres (650 to 1000ft) away.

The civilian use becomes clearer over time. Images taken on May 5, 2018 show intense civilian activity: Civilian cars can be seen lined up at the new external entrances. The internal courtyard was also equipped with a children’s sports field, and the internal walls were painted in multiple colours with bright mural drawings appropriate to the students’ age group.

A 2018 satellite image confirming the site’s civilian use, showing a children’s sports field and civilian cars lined up in front of the school’s external gate [Google Earth/Al Jazeera]

This documentation can be regarded as definitive visual confirmation that the building was operating at full capacity as a primary school. These features (such as the playground, wall drawings, and the presence of civilian cars) are the same ones that later appeared in videos documenting residents storming the school on the day of the tragedy to search for their daughters.

The Martyr Absalan clinic as corroborating evidence

To prove that the attacking party was (or should have been) precisely aware of the site’s updated layout, we traced the newest construction projects in the same area.

On January 14, 2025 (just one year before the attack), the commander-in-chief of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, Major-General Hossein Salami, visited the city of Minab to inaugurate the Martyr Absalan Specialised Clinic.

The clinic, which cost 100 billion Iranian tomans (about $2m), was built on an area of 5,700 square metres (61,354 square feet) at another corner of the same original military complex – specifically on Resalat Street – to serve residents of eastern Hormozgan province.

Reports published to cover the clinic’s opening indicate it was equipped with the latest CT imaging devices, ultrasound equipment, and laboratories, and that it offered civilian medical specialities such as paediatrics, obstetrics and gynaecology, and dentistry – confirming its civilian nature.

The adjacent Martyr Absalan Specialised Clinic (lower centre, in yellow), which opened in early 2025 and was separated by an independent civilian entrance, and which sustained no damage during the latest bombardment [Google Earth/Al Jazeera]

As with the school years earlier, building the clinic required spatial separation from the military base. After the Martyr Absalan clinic opened in January 2025, a separate gate was opened to connect it directly to the external street to receive civilian patients, and a dedicated car park was established – measures mirroring what the school underwent when it was separated from the complex and given three independent gates.

Thus, what had been a single unified military complex became three independent sectors, clearly distinguishable in satellite imagery: The Shajareh Tayyebeh girls’ school, separated since 2016 with its own walls and gates; the Martyr Absalan Specialised Clinic, separated since early 2025 with an independent civilian entrance; and the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex, which remained a closed and active site.

When the US-Israeli attack began on the morning of February 28, 2026, analysis of the strike locations revealed an odd pattern: Missiles hit the military base and the school, but bypassed the specialised clinic complex located between the two without touching it.

This exclusion cannot be explained as a coincidence; it strongly indicates that the executing party was operating with coordinates and maps that distinguished between the complex’s different facilities.

A visual analysis of missile impact sites shows the military base targeted (red area) and the school (green area), while the clinic complex (yellow area) was precisely left intact [Al Jazeera]

Here lies the fundamental contradiction exposed by this investigation: If the intelligence was up to date enough to spare a clinic that had been open for only one year, how did it fail to identify an elementary school that had been separated from the military complex and had become a clearly defined civilian institution for more than 10 years?

This contradiction leaves only two possibilities: Either the bombing of the school was the result of a grave intelligence failure caused by reliance on outdated databases that did not keep pace with successive changes in the complex’s layout, or it was a deliberate strike based on a linkage that treats the school as part of the military system.

Misleading claims

No sooner than when plumes of smoke began to rise from the school’s rubble than accounts on the X platform affiliated with, or sympathetic to, Israeli parties began circulating videos and images claiming the school had not been struck from the outside, but was destroyed after an Iranian air defence missile missed its target and fell back to the ground.

This narrative replicates the same tactic used during the bombing of al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza in October 2023, when Israel rushed to accuse the Palestinian resistance of responsibility for the massacre via a rocket that missed its target.

https://x.com/ChayasClan/status/2027742261480452476

However, open-source verification tools – specifically reverse image searches and geolocation using visual landmarks – quickly revealed that the most widely shared image in this campaign, which is claimed to show the impact of a failed Iranian missile that fell on the school, has nothing to do with the city of Minab in the first place.

By matching the terrain and landmarks visible in the image – especially the snow-covered mountains in the background – with satellite imagery, it became clear that it relates to an incident that occurred on the outskirts of Zanjan in northwestern Iran, about 1,300km (808 miles) from Minab.

The irony is that the nature of the two locations alone is enough to refute the claim: Minab is a coastal city in the far southeast overlooking the Gulf of Oman and the Strait of Hormuz, with a tropical climate and no snowfall, while Zanjan is a mountainous city in the northwest that is covered with snow in winter.

Iranian sources said what happened in Zanjan that day was a successful interception operation carried out by air defence units affiliated with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, during which two hostile drones were shot down. It was not possible to independently verify this information.

The Minab school incident is not an exception in the record of civilian facilities being targeted by the US and Israeli militaries; rather, it falls within a documented pattern stretching across decades of military operations and attacks, in which the same scene recurs: Strikes hit schools, hospitals, and civilian shelters, followed by immediate denial or shifting of blame to the other side, before independent investigations later reveal the falsity of official claims.

In April 1970, Israeli Phantom fighter jets bombed the Bahr al-Baqar elementary school in Egypt’s Sharqia governorate, killing 46 children out of 130 who were in their classrooms that morning.

Israel claimed the school was an Egyptian military facility, and Defense Minister Moshe Dayan said at the time that “the Egyptians may have put elementary school pupils in a military base.”

But an Israeli pilot who took part in the raid and was captured during the October 1973 war later revealed it had been a deliberate attack and that they knew it was merely a school.

In February 1991, the US Air Force dropped two “smart” bombs on the Amiriyah civilian shelter in Baghdad, killing at least 408 civilians – most of them women, children, and the elderly.

Washington said the facility had been turned into a military command centre, but Human Rights Watch later showed that the building bore clear markings indicating it was a public shelter and that large numbers of civilians were using it throughout the air campaign.

In April 1996, the Israeli army shelled the headquarters of the Fijian battalion of the UNIFIL international force in the town of Qana in southern Lebanon, where about 800 Lebanese civilians were taking refuge inside the UN compound. One hundred and six people were killed and more than 116 wounded.

Israel claimed it was providing cover for a special unit that had come under mortar fire from near the compound, but a UN investigation later concluded the Israeli bombardment was deliberate, citing video recordings showing an Israeli unmanned reconnaissance aircraft over the compound before the shelling began.

In October 2015, a US AC-130 aircraft bombed a Doctors Without Borders (known by the French acronym, MSF) hospital in the Afghan city of Kunduz, killing 42 people, including 24 patients and 14 staff members. The organisation had previously provided the hospital’s coordinates to all parties to the conflict. The US account changed several times – from describing the strike as “collateral damage” to claiming Afghan forces had requested it – before the US commander acknowledged that the decision was entirely American.

In the Gaza Strip, attacks on educational facilities have reached an unprecedented level since October 2023. By the early months of 2025, 778 of the enclave’s 815 schools had been partially or completely destroyed – about 95.5% of all schools. UNRWA reported that about one million displaced people sought refuge in its schools, which had been turned into shelters; nevertheless, at least 1,000 people were killed and 2,527 wounded inside these schools through July 2025. Journalistic sources also documented that the Israeli army set up a “special strikes cell” to target schools systematically, classifying them as “centres of gravity”.

People and rescue teams search for victims following an Israel strike on a school in Minab [Abbas Zakeri/Mehr News/WANA via Reuters]

Returning to the school in Minab, testimony by Shiva Amilairad, a representative of the Coordinating Council of Iranian Teachers’ Trade Unions, to Time magazine indicates that the decision to evacuate the school was made as soon as the US-Israeli attacks began. But, she said, the time between the warning issued by Iranian authorities (after detecting attacks on the city) and the moment the missile struck was far too short, and most parents were unable to reach the school to pick up their daughters.

She also confirmed that hospital morgue capacity was exhausted, forcing authorities to use mobile refrigerated trucks to preserve the bodies of the young girls; some families lost more than one child in the same incident.

The attackers’ ability to spare newly established adjacent facilities (such as the Martyr Absalan clinic) and their glaring failure to avoid an elementary school operating at full capacity and packed with 170 girls leaves us with two scenarios, both unequivocally condemnatory: Either US and Israeli forces relied, in striking the vicinity of the Asif Brigade, on a very old, outdated intelligence target bank (dating to before 2013), which would constitute grave negligence and reckless disregard for civilian lives; or the strike was carried out deliberately and with prior knowledge to inflict maximum societal shock and undermine popular support for Iran’s military establishment.


Really Moz grow up and stop twisting my words.


I’m saying you supporting actions from far away that involves lives and bloodshed...you don’t actually have to be there.


Read my posts carefully. I said 800 civilians dead is unacceptable because there were precise options.


The U.S. has the best-trained special forces, Navy seals and Marines, and a properly executed operation could have taken out Khamenei and his inner circle without killing hundreds of innocent people. That is what I suggested.


You can’t say you care about innocent lives and then brush off 800 civilians as collateral damage. And as i said in my post that you didn’t read properly, it lowers the standard of what we should accept, and once you start doing that, it becomes very easy to justify anything.


Besides, you guys weren't even considering that a special forces unit could have done the job. No, you just support bombing everything and letting 800 extra innocent people die.


Have you read the latest news? Already, because of retaliation from Iran, six U.S. personnel have died. Iran also says that they will attack any ship trying to pass thru the straight of Hormuz.


Your hero Trump has just released a chain reaction. More people are going die, but yet you telling me, the forces involved are supposedly “caring.” ? You must be kidding, right?

How are they caring if there actions have just opened a real can of worms?


"Even though that’s so obviously in the best interest of the mission."


And you’re still wondering why I’m seriously doubting that you actually do care? That statement alone, really makes it look like Trump and the mission come above innocent lives for you.


Oh so special forces could have done the job, no need for bombs and all that planning. Send in Rambo.


Even though that’s so obviously in the best interest of the mission


And you’re still wondering why I’m seriously doubting that you actually do care? That statement alone, really makes it look like Trump and the mission come above innocent lives for you.


Let’s look at whole quote shall we:


And you think the forces involved didn’t give a damn about civilian lives. Even though that’s so obviously in the best interest of the mission.


So let me translate, the mission architects would have been acutely aware that avoiding civilian casualties was important, because nobody wants bystanders to be hurt and because winning the minds of Iranians is important. Is it becoming clearer.


But while we have access to all your wisdom on the subject of peace negotiations, you haven’t given us any additional solutions, so I guess your original idea of more negotiations stands.


Would that also be your solution in the Ukraine?


M, you can't argue in a vacuum man.


Asking for a perfect solution in broken circumstances is really just scapegoating.


Something had to be done about those guys. It's not only the killing of their own people, but the amount of deaths caused through their funding, supporting and arming of terrorists, they had plenty of blood on their hands.


You're making a weak argument because there is always a cost, to everything. Because you have to pay the price, doesn't mean that you want to or are happy to.


Assume the West simply said they would arm counter regime forces and not interfere directly, how many lives would be lost? Assume they do nothing and don't interfere at all, how many lives would be lost?


So, as much as you are saying that the Trumpers appear not to care about the supposed 800 you mentioned, they could ask you if you don't care about the many thousands.


To save the many, you sometimes have to sacrifice the few.

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