It doesn't seem

Putin's way down the road to a Tianaman Square type response to any internal protest action

Blob

Forget about that little idiotic doos from Seattle.  He retends to be in Russia - but is still in one of the msot lawless and drug-addicted city in the USA - competing for that with  Los Angeles and San Francisco in California, Chicago in Illinois and New York,

Which is largely a matter of perception.

Thousands of soldiers coming home in body bags and the fear of you or your love ones being conscripted isn't a perception if its actually happening.

Perception which a focused propaganda campaign against Putin would have change drastically.

Not in the time fame of just under two and half years. 

RE $20,000,000,000...I never said this needs to come out of one chunk of support. But since the start of the war, if a portions of the aid money was used as I said, Putin would have a lot less support today. Don't be sneaky.

It doesn't matter if you remove it as one chunk or several smaller chunks. It's still $20 billion less aid that Ukraine would have desperately needed on the frontlines.

RE Influencers. Yes, Russian influences would possibly be dragged off to prison, obviously. But Russian teens, like teens everywhere in the world, are influenced by the biggest influencers on the internet...Tate, Paul, Rogan, etc etc.

Emm what percentage of Russian teens understand English?

 If these guys were helping to spread divide Putin from Russia, it would make a massive difference. This is obvious. I know you're next gonna go into the specifics of each influencer and tell me why they wouldn't be part of a propaganda campaign.

Well if your going mention these guys its kinda of important detail whether they would take a part in a propaganda campaign, leaving aside the fact that Rogan and Tate are more likely going be giving air time to the Russian propaganda than the wests. 

Take Rogan for example. He is the most watched person on the planet. A single monologue from him where he talks about how good Russian people are...the effect something like that would have is probably far more significant than you may think

Popular as he may be, I think your overstating his reach. The majority of his audience are young males and would mostly be from America. I know he does have a following outside the states as well but I think monologue from him would be picked up by at most a few hundred thousand Russian's. 

 Add a few more influencers to the list, the politicians, then corporations...suddenly you'd struggle to find a Russian that hasn't at least heard that the West support them but not their crazy leader.

Except the maybe 40 odd million Russian's who don't use the internet. And nice words about the good ordinary Russian from Joe Rogan, western politicians and corporations isn't going to protect Russian's in Russia if they try to speak out.

This all seems to be a case of, "Oh, we'll never beat Russian propaganda so let's just keep chucking money at Ukraine." Which is ridiculous.

Absolutely no one is saying that. Russian propaganda isn't unbeatable, just you have to be realistic in how quickly one could except to overcome it and acknowledge the fact its not just propaganda on its own the Russian's have but also the ability to back it up with violent repression.

I never said Ukraine should not be allowed to defend itself or receive support. I said that the fact that one of the main pillars of war is missing here is both strange and telling. Particularly when the West can't directly fight Russia themselves. You'd think the obvious play would be to split Putin from Russia via propaganda. But that was never attempted or even remotely focused on. The net result of their propaganda is Ukraine is amazing and Russia is evil. Perhaps I'm cynical, but that is very suspicious.

Well if you want to criticize the West for not putting enough effort into a propaganda campaign, that doesn't seem unreasonable though I as I already said we can't know for sure if one's going on and the West just doesn't want to talk about as so not to tip off the Russians. But I've no idea why your so convinced a larger propaganda campaign could of made any significant difference by now. At most I could see it shifting opinion of an additional 1-2% of the population but that's no where near enough when 60% of Russia is de-politicized and keeping its head down. Propaganda is an important aspect of warfare but its not as significant as material support on the ground.

No, I never travelled in Russia. Obviously. How would that be relevant when I said I've travelled extensively since the start of the war and seen people paint Russia(as a whole) as being evil?

I just think its more relevant to know if the Russian's themselves think they are being painted as evil than if non Russian's view them as evil. 

Putin won't be defeated by Ukraine. It doesn't matter how much money you chuck at it. And if he won't be defeated by the opposing army, what will defeat him?

On what grounds do you say this? Why can't Putin be defeated? History is replete of example's of smaller powers beating bigger powers in war, Russia itself have lost several wars against smaller powers. 

His own people. It's really that obvious and it's really that simple.

It's not.

It's interesting to note that even after the very many provable instances of military industrial complex corruption in our lifetimes, people still swallow that narrative that is being pushed around Russia/Ukraine.

Now wandering off into conspiracy land. But speaking of narratives, Putin won't be defeated is a good one.

Chuck some more money at it, right?

Nope.

Covid - Get the vax or you're an evil granny killer and conspiracy theorist.

Real life decisions have real life consequences. 

Russia/Ukraine - Support endless aid to Ukraine, without question, or you're a Putin apologist.

No one saying the aid to Ukraine should be endless, just we are very far from a point where sending aid would achieve nothing. And yes if you push Russian's narratives or peace on Putin's terms you are an apologist.

Do we see a pattern here?

Yes your misrepresenting the other side.

Stav 

Just two issues - 

 "Asides the point we have no idea how effective the Russian election interference was back in 2016." 

That is not what the Democratic Party and media stated in the past.  They accused Trump colluded with the Russians and the Russians helped him to win the election was influenced by the election,  They claim to vote for Trump is like voting for a foreign agent.

The above was totally discredited by findings of two Special Councils and the Inspector General of Justice and that the allegations were based on lies invented and spread by the Obama Admnistration, Clinton and the DNC

What came out was that $41 000 was spent on pro-Trump adverts originating from Russia.   It is a minimal amunt of money and if those adverts not have reached 10 000 voters,   So there was not  even the remotest chance that it influenced anything  in the 2016 election.    .      

What   is not in dispute is that the USA did not pay Iran anything  other than to promise to release the frozen Iran money if Biden wins the 2020 elections.   In return the Ayatollah regime wanted the Ayatollah being convinced to help Biden and millions was spent on Iran advertisements in which the Muslim resident in t he USA to vote for Biden.

"On what grounds do you say this? Why can't Putin be defeated? History is replete of example's of smaller powers beating bigger powers in war, Russia itself have lost several wars against smaller powers."

I regard the above as very true - but the real saying  is that country's who won wars lose in the peace that follows:  

However, lets get to modern times.    It happened in the case of the Vietnam War when the US evacuated people in fleeing from the Vietcong.  

It happned in Afghanistan from where the US fled in disgrace  from Kabul in the middle of the night after the War lasted  for more than 22 years.

It is inevitable to hapen in Iraq - the US troops at present in Iraq  will flee from that counry as well and that is inevitable.  

As to any country winning a war involving  invasion in to Russia winning a war.    In another post I referred to 4 such wars where it happened starting in 1507 and has been true ever since.  The attackers in fact ended up losing the war like the case was in the case of Napoleon     It h appened to Hitler in WW2 who was a smaller nation attacking Russia,   In that war the invaders was defeated and the end result was that the  Allies won WW2  with Russia winning  most advantages like ending up Central Europe be donated to the USSR to instal Communist Regimes in them.   

I am sure Ukraine do not have the resources and manpower to win the war against Russia and no amount of newspaper propaganda will convince me otherwise - since it is proven by historical fact,  

The only solution is peace negotiations helping Ukraine to the maximum to return to being a demcoracy in accordance with Constitutional principles  which it is not at present.   The Russians  would never allowed the Crimea to be part of Ukraine - but they may be prepared to evacuate a major part of the land they at present occupy in Ukraine.   

The best thing for Ukraine would be if Trump win the election and during negotiations he inssited on Ukraine being a democraic country wihin the  borders starting off with ceeding tracks of land they occupy to Ukraine.   Putin in the past lost every argument they had with Trump and in 2019 Putin supported publicly the eelctiion of Biden as President in 2020,   The fact is that Biden is a corrupt and weak individual who can be dealt with easily.   Fact is Putin would defnitely help the Democrats to win the Presidential election since  Biden will be even weaker  both physically and mentally than he was in 2020.    

 .   

Drivel alert!

Once again, nary a murmur of criticism of the authoritarian fascist gangster..

Shitoric drivel.

"His own people. It's really that obvious and it's really that simple.

It's not."

Go on then, make the case of Ukraine winning this without the West putting their own men on the battlefield beside the Ukranians.

Mozart

BS alert again.  Therfe is nto a sing le fact supporting your shit and hundreds of documents proving  what I wrote above.   I saw cvideo evidence in which Putin supported Biden in 2019 to be elected as President and Kelly was sent to Teheran to promise US help in return for getting the  Ayatollah Government to pursuad the Muslims in the USA to support Biden in the 2020 elec tion.  The Iran Government spent millions on advertising  it on the internet and the US Muslim Mullahs did the same based on instructions from Teheran.

The shit about Russian interference in the 20-16 is starting  off again in the uSA - I saw it being used by CNN so I suppose it would spread to your soiurces - the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal soon as well.

So keep your unprovwen shit from being  spread on site please.

You may know why - the excjhange rate ebtween US dollars and SA Rand a week ago was R18,40 per dolalr - today it was R17,10/  Maybe it is diue to the formation of a coalition Government in SA.

The latter party is more Pro-USA than the ANC - but will not be able to change the present approach of the SA Government on the Ukraine War - namely a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine War by the means of negotiation.  

It is obviosu the present US Government is awarding Iran for help  to Hezxbollah and Hamas in return for Muslim votes in the November election.   So Biden is delaying arms delivery to Israel desite approval of Congress,   

A US traitor in the WH advised by leftist scum is destroying world stability with what object in mind?

Zelensky has repeatedly stated that ALL he wants from the Free World is Weapons.

Ukraine's spent months fighting with a tenth of Russia's firepower.

Thankfully armaments are getting through & Ukraine's fightback's gaining momentum.

Slavi Ukrani !

BB

You mean the Fascist in the WH destroying  democracy in the USA and your brainwashed idiocy you do not realize it.   The USA is trying to get support for Ukraine by organizing a meeting in Switzerland - and hoped China would attend it - but did not invite Russia to attend the warmongering  meeting.

The Biden ultra Leftist and corrupt Government do not want a peaceful settlement of the Ukraine War - they want expansion of the War so they can retain power in the USA by starting  WW3,  in the meantime they are underming Israel in defending  their country 

The situation is also highlighted by the USA Jweish community who donated $50 million to the Republican Party to fight Biden and his terrorist agenda aimed at elimination of Jews throughout the world.  That is why he is a Facist promoting Hitler's ideas worldwide.   72% of the Jewish voters in the USA supported the Democrats in the past - Biden would be lucky to get the vote of 10% of the Jews in 2024 after the riots at USA College campuses organized by Antifa - the terrorist subsidiary started by Obama in 2014 - while the whole process was funded by Soros.   

However to stop the pro-Hamas riots in campuses all over the USA - some rioters were arrsted and released within 24 hours with no bail being required,   They will not be charged for damages caused during their riots - so why shou ld that be?      

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4714072-majority-jews-back-biden-antisemitism-serious-problem-poll/

Go on then, make the case of Ukraine winning this without the West putting their own men on the battlefield beside the Ukranians.

Just to clarify I never said Ukraine will definitely win and I'm not claiming to be a military expert. I just know they definitely can't if the west stops sending them aid.

Russia doesn't have infinite resources to throw at the war. Most estimates are that Russian's are just about making good on its equipment losses in Ukraine, due to increased production and access to its old Soviet stockpiles. But I've seen western estimates pointing out the Russian's can only keep that up till the end of 2025. After that their going to run into equipment shortages and all the will in the world to fight doesn't matter if your not properly equipped. We've seen what happened to Ukraine when they where forced to ration resources due to the delay in that 60 billion aid package from American earlier this year.

There is also the fact that the Russian's moved to a war economy, and while that initially boosted jobs and increased production of military equipment, its not production that benefits the Russian economy in the long run or is it sustainable without it putting an every increasing strain on the economy which could well have a knock on affect on support for the war in Russia.

On the actual battlefield, its anticipated that Russian will launch a new offensive shortly, expectations is they will take some more ground and make some tactical gains but its unlikely they will achieve a major strategic breakthrough. Ukraine may have a chance to get back on the offensive after that near the end of the year.

Now I wouldn't expect Ukraine to achieve a major victory at that point but maybe set the conditions for one next year if they are adequately provisioned. Something like being able to cut the land bridge between Crimea and the Donbass in two and obliging the Russian's west of the cut of point to pull back Crimea. At this point Crimea itself would become incredibly vulnerable, particularly if the Ukrainian's can take out the Kerch bridge.

So a combination of war weariness back in Russia as well as increased economy difficulties, combined with battlefield setbacks and causalities and an ever increasing difficulty in keep the Russian armies in Ukraine supplied could eventually lead to Russia being forced to the negotiating table on terms far more favourable to Ukraine. 

BB

ouMaaik, all the AI platforms agree that, you're undoubtedly, without a shadow of doubt, a fully fledged fascist.

If you can prove that anything I write is not th e truth  th en by all means call me a fascist - but you will not be able to do anything bar quoting from the bible of extreme leftwing fascism - the never tell the truth Guardian.   For them the truth  is believing lies they spread.

I am not prepared to lie about issues - I leave that to people like the brainwashed deadheads who allows the fake media propaganda to  think for people like you.   So you live in a different world from reality.  So for a change think about what is happening and if you even can still think - I would not call you a leftist fascist like your hero Biden and his corrupt fellow-crooks.    I am proud to be called a fascist by you because that is high praise by an unthinking person.    I am the exact opposite of a fascist - I leave that to the bloody corrupt idiot in the WH  who attacks the US constitution and use the Justice Department to undermine opposition to hsi regime.    I am not talking about the fake court cases against Trump where nobody knows what laws he broke - not even the dunces on site - but to the 278 000 people the FIS court revealed as being spied on illegally by the FIS Court.   The rounds for the spying was Biden calling opponents "White Domestic Terrorists" - but that  also apply to Blacks, Hispanics and Whites who attended school board meetings to object to the Stalinist teaching methods now used in US schools and by their membership of the Catholic Church who opposed abortions.   If ever there was a fascist regime in the USA - it is the present Biden Regime.   So live with it. 

BB

"In a hypothetical match-up held today, 61 percent say they would support Biden, 23 percent say they would support Trump and 10 percent say they would support “someone else.”

Nearly all Jews (93 percent) say antisemitism in the U.S. is either a “serious problem” (56 percent) or “somewhat of a problem” (37 percent), with 7 percent saying it’s not a problem.

Most Jews (87 percent) also say in the poll that, “since the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel on October 7,” they think antisemitism in the U.S. has “increased a lot” (55 percent) or has “increased somewhat” (33 percent). Only 1 percent say antisemitism has decreased, and 12 percent say it’s stayed the same."

I quoted the above for a reason.    First of all there is a statement that 61% of the Jews will support Biden - that is 11% down on the Jews voting for Biden in 2020.

The csituation is getting worse for the Jews by the day.   Do you know that the FBI arrested 8 terrorists linked to ISIS that entered the USA illegally through Biden's open border policy for a terrorist attack on a synagogue and were planning further attacks on Jewish people and institutions.   There were thousands of Muslims from terrorist  countries entering the USA on a daily basis and those are a constant threat against the Jewish population.

In the meantime Biden is delaying arms delivery to Israel and that is also causing upset by Jews in the USA.    

Lastly we have seen thsi kind of fake polls recently.    one was about the Ukraine War.   They found 62% of th e US vters support the funding of the War by Gallop - done the same month Gallop found that only 38% of the USA voters support Biden's Ukraine policies.   

Wat is surprising is the fact is UIS Polls are wildly inaccurate because of the system used by pollsters.   Most polls are absed on a formula that out of a 1000 participants -  

*  400 to 500 are registered Demcorats; 

*   250 to 300 are registered Republicans; and

*   250 to 300 are Independents.  

In SA where polls are accurate beyond believe - eg in the last election the polls findings were 0,3% out - it is not based on party membership, but on real scientific evluated data who and where  voters are chosen to participate and that led to accuracy of outcome assessment.   In the USA if you want an outcome favourable to the Democras - all the pollsters do is to increase the Registered Democrats to 500 and reduce the number of Repulcian members and Independents to 250 each.   

The same happened in all polls,   If you want the opinion ov f voters in the above Jewish particiants.    They would be virtally totally done from Jewish registered Demcoratic Party members and excludethe Orthodox Jews who support the Republicans anyway.   So if 61% support for Biden the real figure is over 72% the real support figure is 43% supporting Biden  - confirmed by the other poll dealin with the rise in anti-semism in the USA.        

So as they say everything happens unexpectedly every day in Fascist  Biden America.              

Your sources please.