Usually, this is a time for the totalitarian government to show off their weapons.
Instead, this year only one tank showed up...
Apparently, Putin is sending tanks from 1940 to Ukraine, as the tank supply runs out.
That's Putin's getaway vehicle.
A tractor in the 21st century probably has more power than this WW2 relic.
Tanks are as obsolete as battledships
Far from it.
Anti-tank missiles have reduced the effectiveness of tanks - assuming the defender has them.
The Javelin appears to have heat-seeking capability, so if you point it at the tank and shoot -it should hit. (From the top where the weakest armour is).
The anti-tank missile is arguably the reason that Ukraine is still in the war, given Russia "had" the largest stockpile of tanks in the world.
Russia seems to have a limited supply of anti-tank missiles- and they are less mobile than the Javelin , so when Ukraine counter-attack with NATO tanks the Ukrainians could potentially gain ground quickly.
Chat GPT with access to current media articles:
Certainly! According to NATO estimates, Russia had about 15,000 -20,000 tanks before the start of the Ukraine war in 2014. However, many of these tanks were old models that had been in storage for decades [[2]].
As of 2023, Russia is estimated to have about 5,000 tanks left, but many of these are also old models that have been in storage for years [[1]]."
In an interview given on 28th of June last year a Ukrainan tank officer gave the following quote.
"Tanks on the battlefield have not become useless, on the contrary, their role in the battle has become more significant, and the variety of the tasks that they perform has widened."
Tanks in general are far more exposed these days than ever before, especially with the use of so many drones which are used to drop bombs.. even home made ones.... on their weakest area at the top of the tank.
It also does not help how the Russians stupidly kept the tanks in huge clumps or large and long formations on roads, which made them very easy targets from anything above them, because they could maximiz e the damage to so many tanks in such a small target area.
The road and travelling conditions in Ukraine also played a big part in these huge tank losses, but the drones in particular has had the biggest impact in my opinion.
The evidence is contrary to his opinion. If media sources are accurate, Russia has lost most of its tanks already.
No one is disputing that tank losses have be en high, but that doesn't make a weapons system obsolete. The Russian's lost 98,000 tanks in WW2 or an average of 650 a day but they would not have achieved victory without the tank.
Do you really think Ukraine would be able to launch its upcoming offensive without tanks?
Many were abandoned, but perhaps the Russian tank drivers saw the Javelin in action
In the cast of tanks being abandoned, it was most likely due to a break down or lack of fuel.
Tanks in general are far more exposed these days than ever before, especially with the use of so many drones which are used to drop bombs.. even home made ones.... on their weakest area at the top of the tank.
Drones have had a considerable impact on the battlefield in Ukraine and will continue to do so into the future though I'm not sure drones dropping bombs onto tanks was a method regularly used to destroy tanks.
But like new weapon system deployed to the battlefield, if its proving to be effective you can be damn sure the enemy will spend considerable time and effort trying to counter it.
It also does not help how the Russians stupidly kept the tanks in huge clumps or large and long formations on roads, which made them very easy targets from anything above them, because they could maximize the damage to so many tanks in such a small target area.
Yes Russian tactics and how they have deployed their tank have played a considerably role in the high tank loss.
The road and travelling conditions in Ukraine also played a big part in these huge tank losses, but the drones in particular has had the biggest impact in my opinion.
The drone has no doubt played a role, even if its not directly killing the tanks, it's assisted in killing them by spotting the tanks for other weapons systems to kill them but the tank is far from obsolete. That's because the tank hasn't been replaced by another weapon's system that can fulfill its role on the battlefield better. What weapon system can move at 60KPH, accurately hit targets with a 105mm explosive shell at 1+KM while being completely impervious to small arms, machine guns and auto cannons?
The end of the tank has being predicted so many times over the years even as far back as just after World War I yet it never happened.
The drone has no doubt played a role, even if its not directly killing the tanks, it's assisted in killing them by spotting the tanks for other weapons systems to kill them but the tank is far from obsolete.
Agreed, I don't believe the tank is obsolete, I just think that a lot more issues affected the huge loss of tanks by the Russians, with the use of drones being a "new" option compared to other previous wars.
Russia has more modern tanks than it will ever need. Tanks without air and artillery cover are mobile coffins. Hence the handful of tanks from NATO that a Ukraine will receive mean NOTHING.
The Russians have played a very smart game. They allowed Ukrainian troops into Bakmut and slaughtered them. Calculations are that some 350,000 Ukrainian soldiers are dead and more than 400,000 severely wounded. This means their original standing army of some 600, 000 troops have largely perished. Russia controls 95 percent of Bakmut. They control the Donbass which is the valuable part of Ukrain and is Russian populated.
Russia artillery out guns the Ukrainians 10 to1. About 10 Ukrainian soldiers die to one Russian. This matches the artillery dominance. Apparently though 75 percent of casualties come via artillery. The leaked Pentagon Papers say the kill ratio its 7 to 1.
Ukrain population is now estimated at between 18 to 22 miilion
Ukrain has zero chance of winning this war. The Ukrainian people are simply Globalist cannon fodder.
Unfortunately when the 2014 US instigated tevution happened an anti democratic NAZI invested corrupt government of US puppets came to power.
Today we see the gutter in power in the USA with disastrous consequence for America and the World. The Totalitarian tendencies of the illigitimate Biden Regime are on full display for all to see. Far worse thst Russia.
The moral bankruptcy of the illigitimate regime and their Globalist allies in Eurooe are disgusting people all over the world.
Russian now has close to 1 million troops ready to go. They are building to 1.5 million. They have all the ammo and missiles they want.
Besides the political effects of the Border invasion where 1 million people will storm the border and crossing will rise to 400,000 a month (the vast majority of Americans don't want this and their anger will turn to rage shortly), Traitor Biden and his handlers will also have to face the fallout of loosing the Ukraine war. A the wasted money and lies and the death and carnage caused by the Biden instigated war.
Meanwhile Trump's lesd over Biden has increased from 4 points to seven in leftist polls that are always biased. But as, Stalin, sharktwits hero, proclaimed its not the votes that matter but who counts the votes.
I look forward also to JFK Jr shredding the Biden Regime. I expect support for him to grow further. Good man. I must though research his position on climate chance but what an improvement on Benedict Biden the pedophile sniffer and American sellout.
Agreed, I don't believe the tank is obsolete, I just think that a lot more issues affected the huge loss of tanks by the Russians, with the use of drones being a "new" option compared to other previous wars.
Well as drones are a "new" option, counter measures and tactics to deal with drones did not really exist at the beginning of the war but that is already changing.
Yes drones are a new threat to tanks but in previous wars their was different threats and vulnerabilities that the tank has been able to counter in time. A tank in WW2 for example would be much more susceptible to ambush at night than a modern tank which nowadays have the benefit of night vision optics. Better armour protection and protection systems like ERA better protect tanks from other tanks and traditional shoulder mounted anti tank weapons. Drones could be countered by jamming systems and tanks may even deploy their own drones in future to give them greater situational awareness in both an offensive and defensive role.
Anyone the long and the short of it, is that while I agree drones played a significant role in the losses of Russian tanks, drone's might in the future not enjoy the same levels of success against tanks as they did in the opening stages of the war in Ukraine. Both the tank and the drone are going be around on the battlefield for the foreseeable future.
"Hence the handful of tanks from NATO that a Ukraine will receive mean NOTHING"
What an incredibly stupid statement
What an incredibly stupid statement
You can apply that to his entire post.
Dummies like Beeno have been brainwashed into believing everyone else is brainwashed.
That they are the sensible ones, and mainstream reality is wrong.
They are just singing from an outdated mainstream, unable to think independently or moving with the times. Their sources of information are never from experts in each respective field- but with someone on the toilet philosophising about something they know nothing about.
@Stav,
If a defending country has enough anti-tank missiles like the Javelin, Tanks are much less effective. Having one person that can run around with a bazooka-style tank destroyer is a show-stopper.
It just depends on how good the Russian Anti-tank weapons are, for when Ukraine counter-attacks and will be reliant on tanks for success.
Yes a tank is highly effective, but it assumes the opposition have limited anti-tank missiles that are mobile enough to be carried around by people.
Chat GPT Comments:
Based on the provided search results, there have been several ways that Russian tanks have been destroyed during the conflict in Ukraine.
1. Anti-tank weapons: Anti-tank weapons such as RPGs and ATGMs have been commonly used to penetrate the thick armor of Russian tanks, disabling or destroying them [[1](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-loses-tanks-armored-vehicles-troops-day-1799367)].
2. Artillery: Russian tanks have also been destroyed by artillery fire, where large-caliber shells can penetrate the armor or damage the tracks, rendering the tank immobile [[2](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russia-tank-victory-day-parade/)].
3. Air strikes: Tanks are vulnerable to air attacks, especially from attack helicopters and aircraft armed with bombs or missiles [[1](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-loses-tanks-armored-vehicles-troops-day-1799367)].
4. Improvised explosive devices (IEDs): Insurgents have used IEDs to disable or destroy tanks, planting the explosives on the side of the road or in areas where the tanks are likely to travel [[1](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-loses-tanks-armored-vehicles-troops-day-1799367)].
5. Sabotage: Tanks can be targeted by sabotage attacks, such as planting explosive charges or damaging critical components of the tank's engine or transmission [[1](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-loses-tanks-armored-vehicles-troops-day-1799367)].
Additionally, some of the Russian tanks used in the conflict in Ukraine are outdated and have been brought out of storage, making them more vulnerable to destruction [[4](https://www.9news.com.au/world/russia-ukraine-update-russia-turning-to-eighty-year-old-tanks-after-heavy-losses/669be399-3344-4109-b96d-3ac86d78fe51)].
Ukrainian forces claim to have destroyed thousands of Russian tanks, along with other military equipment such as artillery pieces, armored personnel carriers, and aircraft [[12](https://www.19fortyfive.com/2023/05/putin-has-a-big-problem-thanks-to-the-ukraine-war-he-cant-solve/)].
If a defending country has enough anti-tank missiles like the Javelin,
Tanks are much less effective. Having one person that can run around
with a bazooka-style tank destroyer is a show-stopper.
One person could kill a tan k with Piat/Bazooka/Panzershrek/Panzerfault etc in WW2. It wasn't a show-stopper.
It just depends on how good the Russian Anti-tank weapons are, for
when Ukraine counter-attacks and will be reliant on tanks for success.
Its not that simplistic. Its an important factor but far from the only one.
Yes
a tank is highly effective, but it assumes the opposition have limited
anti-tank missiles that are mobile enough to be carried around by
people.
No it doesn't. The combat effectiveness of a tank comes down to many factors, such as the training of the tank crews, the will to fight, the tank itself, the offensive/defensive capabilities of the tank, the tactics employed, its all very well saying a single person can kill a tank, but any number of things can kill that single person. You can't necessarily use your anti tank missiles if your being pounded by artillery, suppressed by enemy aircraft or being engaged in a fire fight by other enemy soldiers who are fighting in conjunction with enemy tanks.
As for the GPT chat comments.
All of those methods of destroying tanks have existed for a long time. Nothing particularly new to Ukraine war.
@Stav, I don't have all the background details of why Russia a country with the most tanks has been so ineffective in Ukraine.
Sure, there are lots of other reasons like poor morale by the Russian forces - but Russia has lost more tanks than ever (or at least since world war 2- with MUCH more people fighting).
At the very least, Putin has overestimated the ability of his tanks against Ukraine.
I see you upgraded from a calculator to Chat GPT...at least there's less room for operator error.
Russia fights on the Battlefield and not in the minds of the feeble-minded...emotions are meant for deeper things and not the mindless cheering of dolts or bleating of "sheep".
The T34 tank was used for symbolism of the great victory that destroyed the Third Reich...not used anymore. If you know, at least some iota of history, you would work that one out. Tanks are needed in the fields of threats not Red Square, you morons.
Truth is a battle of the minds, the perceptions of them.
But simple truth is hard to determine when people are led by emotions and not reality. And the emotions are created by those in power to propagate their evil plots and manipulate the weak-minded, depraved minds that cannot discern the difference between evil and good. These emotions are hatred, (both against self and others) selfishness and self centered false pride.
It's been happening for centuries, but has now reached a crescendo of insanity....
@Stav, I don't have all the background details of why Russia a country with the most tanks has been so ineffective in Ukraine.
Its been a combination of the effectiveness of those weapons but also due to other factors like poor logistics, maintenance and poor tactics. As other people have already said the way the Russian's initially sent tanks down motorways and straight into ambushes indicates the Russian's where not expecting the Ukrainian's to fight. But also the way the Russian's deployed their tanks was via Battalion Tactical Groups or BTG. Now on paper at least the BTG offers certain tactical advantages and flexibility but the composition of the BTG doesn't include a lot of supporting manpower, which leaves the flanks and rear area's of the BTG vulnerable. As a result of these weaknesses the British have assessed the Russian's largely stopped using BTG's by November 2022.
Again I'm not questioning the fact that Russia has lost considerable
number of tanks. Just the idea that drones and man portable anti-tank
weapons have rendered them obsolete.
Drones and Javelins may have made the tank more vulnerable at the start of the Ukraine war but that doesn't mean those vulnerabilities can't be compensated for fully or at least partially with new technologies and tactics. Even if they can't be compensated for, if the tank fulfills a role on the battlefield that nothing else can then it will remain useful even if vulnerable.
Russia fights on the Battlefield and not in the minds of the feeble-minded...emotions are meant for deeper things and not the mindless cheering of dolts or bleating of "sheep".
Says the biggest dolt of a bleating sheep on this forum.
The T34 tank was used for symbolism of the great victory that destroyed the Third Reich...not used anymore. If you know, at least some iota of history, you would work that one out. Tanks are needed in the fields of threats not Red Square, you moron.
Way to miss the point. The war in Ukraine is going so badly for Russia they can't afford to spare modern tanks for the parade in Red Square.
Truth is a battle of the minds, the perceptions of them.
But
simple truth is hard to determine when people are led by emotions and
not reality. And the emotions are created by those in power to propagate
their evil plots and manipulate the weak-minded, depraved minds that
cannot discern the difference between evil and good. These emotions are
hatred, (both against self and others) selfishness and self centered
false pride.
Well you should know all about people being weak minded Seb you are aperfect example of it, and the beauty of it all is you're so weak minded you don't realize you are describing yourself.
Some people were born to be fools and I must say we have our fair share of them on this site, mankind is doomed as long there are people this stupid, still I suppose it would be a strange world if we didn't have idiots like you and beenshit to show most people that they are more intelligent than some.
Lol...the pots etc.Touched a few raw nerves, but you wouldn't connect.
Brave on internet but cowards face to face. Fortunately we live in different environments.
Don't worry your words go to a void.
Great post, I have to admit I didn't expect much more from you. Still thought you would man up and threaten me with another beating from you misses. As she seems to be the one you hide behind.
I have a pack of tissues you can wipe your vagina with.
Words are for cowards...inadequate men...rough people who cannot really accomplish anything...but 3 rounds in a ring would sort you out. Don't worry you would look like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces missing...that I can promise you, especially if you make fun of my wife, you low-breed. And that half bred from Woodstock.
You are inspired by lies and deception...keep posting to get cheers from the weaklings...we'll see who wins on the battlefield, it's coming don't worry.
At least, I fought in Angola and Rhodesia...and saw what war does to people.
Hey don't forget you are the one that threatened me with a beating from your wife, you brought her into this. Don't go hiding behind her skirt now you wimp.
Little men like you will always hide behind other people, if you ever manage to grow a penis make sure to let us know.
Don't worry about it you have already shown your true colors, keyboard wariors like you are a dime a dozen.
The Russian Bot is already a kid behind a keyboard but his only weapons are classless drunken threats.
If you are a war vet kudos to you but that doesn't mean your world view is right.
Luckily I have never been in that position but and I hope all my descendants are never faced with that.
Though I do struggle to understand someone that has been through something like that can support a war that sees so many innocent people die for a insanely useless ideology.
To each their own but there is no way I can sanction the murder of women and children purely for some zealot ideology.
You are obviously callous enough to not give a fuck about women, children and the elderly and maybe that is because of what you experienced but you seem to lost touch with your humanity and you are alesser being for doing so but in some way I can understand that, they say a war changes a man and you are living proof of that
Tanks are never going to roll over a sophisticated country again.
Well tanks never really did that on their own in the first place.
They may have a limited use in urban clean up…..but in the open they are rolling coffins.
Tanks are generally considered less suited to urban combat where they can be more easily ambushed than out in the open where they can engage targets at long range.
All ships are in the same position including aircraft carriers, the
conflict to demonstrate this hasn’t taken place yet, but it will.
That's a very brave prediction, considering you're admitting you have nothing to base it on, but I don't think it will come to pass.
Ships and tan ks are going to be around for a long time to come.
In what looks to be good news for Ukraine, they are reporting to have routed a Russian infantry brigade from just outside of Bahkmut, and this seems to be collaborated by the rantings of Prigozhin the head of the Wagner PMC who accused the unit of just fleeing and jeopardizing Wagner's position inside Bahkmut.
Many people in SA went to army, but it could hardly be compared to an actual warzone - like Bakhmut.
We know the Russian Bot would be a deserter if a battle broke out.