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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Russia-Ukraine war: How Russian soldiers are mutinying in face of ‘certain death’

Russia-Ukraine war: How Russian soldiers are mutinying in face of ‘certain death’

Started by bobbok...7 REPLIES714 VIEWS· 11 Mar 2023, 22:42
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
11 Mar 2023, 22:42
#1
11 Mar 2023, 22:42#1

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/russia-ukraine-war-how-russian-soldiers-are-mutinying-in-face-of-certain-death/OLOYZYANZVEAXCIFL2HF4VHDUA/

Daily Telegraph UKBy Nataliya Vasilyeva

Videos and messages from inside Putin’s army show troops deserting, fleeing and struggling to find their teams.

Russians sent to fight on the front lines are mutinying, fighting among themselves, getting locked in basements and lost in the chaos of a faltering offensive, a flurry of videos and messages from inside Vladimir Putin’s army show.

Recently mobilised soldiers are refusing orders to face “certain death” by joining “human wave” attacks that they say are destroying entire units at a time.

Some are appealing directly to Putin in desperate videos, while others are standing up to Kremlin officials sent to quell the rebellion.

Reports are emerging of fighters being locked underground for declining to become targets in the “shooting range” that the front line has become.

Meanwhile, the Russian army has been forced to create a new unit to round up all the “lost” soldiers deserting, fleeing or struggling to find their teams.

Soldiers from at least 16 different regions recorded video messages since early February to blame commanders for trying to use them in “human wave” attacks, according to a tally by Russian media outlet Verstka.

The Russian tactic of sending “human waves” of poorly trained and poorly armed fighters into the line of fire to overwhelm the opposition has become increasingly common, according to military observers.

The appeals come as the Ukrainian forces are reporting staggering Russian losses - ranging from 590 to over 1000 men a day. Russia’s long-awaited offensive is largely considered to have stalled amid a gruelling battle to take the small city of Bakhmut.

One of the most striking recent calls for help from soldiers came from a group of men who were called up from eastern Siberia’s Irkutsk region.

The man said he and his comrades were sent to the occupied Donetsk region, ostensibly to be a patrol force - only to find out they were to join one of the now notorious human wave attacks outside the town of Avdiivka that have been overwhelming the Ukrainian army.

“We’re just sent in for slaughter. The commanders are telling us in the face we’re disposable soldiers and our only chance to go back home is to get injured in fighting,” the soldier said.

“The commanders don’t care about our lives. We’re asking for help. We have no one else to turn to.”

A large number of complaints are likely to be connected to Russia’s offensive outside Avdiivka, just like a previous wave of discontent in October and November came hand in hand with Russia’s attacks outside Vuhledar and Kreminna, according to Ruslan Leviev, head of the open-source group Conflict Intelligence Team that has been tracing Russian troops since the first Russian incursion in Ukraine in 2014.

“We don’t know how much of this discontent is left unpublicised but those videos most likely speak to the use of ‘human wave attacks’ widely reported by the Ukrainian army,” Leviev told The Telegraph.

Soldiers often hide their faces behind balaclavas and rarely speak to reporters, fearing publicity would backfire against them or their families.

In another widely shared video, filmed in pitch-black darkness, a Russian man with his camouflage jacket over his head can be seen reading out from a piece of paper, lit by a torch sitting in his lapel pocket:


“Vladimir Vladimirovich [Putin], this is a plea from men mobilised from the Irkutsk region. We’re asking you to look into the illegal and criminal orders of our commanders and take action,” the man says, asking Putin to stop sending former civilians like him to their deaths.

He says the unit of his predecessors who made a similar appeal was “almost completely wiped out”.

After four pleas from the 1439th regiment, the men’s female relatives recorded a desperate video last weekend, asking Putin, “our only hope”, to “save our men”.

The commanders have abandoned them and told them not to leave their positions. Our men have been without food or water for a few days but surviving under constant shelling,” the women who crowded on a beige couch in a sparsely furnished living room, said as one of them covered her face with a shawl, crying.

In response, Russia’s defence ministry released a video of a masked soldier who said he was from Irkutsk and that he was willing to serve.

People of Baikal, an Irkutsk media outlet in exile, was able to trace the men’s relatives after they posted desperate pleas on local social media groups that were subsequently deleted.

The wife of one of the men who recorded the appeal called him a “patriot who respected Putin and thought he was doing everything right in Ukraine”.

The woman’s husband, who was called up in September and ended up in Donetsk in November, described to her the grim reality he had to face in eastern Ukraine.

“[The commander] was sending them for slaughter: people were shot and killed like at a shooting range. The guys were all alone in a minefield, without any air support or any reinforcements,” the wife, whose identity was concealed, said.

Reports about utter disarray in the Russian ranks have been pouring in even from pro-Kremlin sources.

Rybar, one of Russia’s most popular pro-war Telegram channels, earlier this week admitted in a lengthy piece that the country’s army faces the problem of soldiers who “got lost”.

An unknown number of troops are wandering around the front line looking for their units after being discharged from hospital or after losing their mates in battle.

“Sometimes things get absurd: a person can go around the front line for weeks, trying to find his unit while at the same time the recruitment office already listed him as a deserter,” Rybar said, attributing it to “chaos” and a breakdown in communications within the military.

The defence ministry is also working to set up special units that would be gathering up all the “lost” soldiers, before figuring out where to ship them next.

Most recently, Russian convicts who were recruited to fight began to rebel as well.

Media outlet Ostorozhno Novosti earlier this week published a video allegedly showing convicts thrown in a basement outside Donetsk as punishment for refusing to follow orders.

The men said only 11 people from their unit of 71 people survived.

“The defence ministry should be aware and responsible for us but maybe they have no idea,” an unidentified man said.

First, it was the notorious private military contractor Wagner, owned by former convict Yevgeny Prigozhin, that began recruiting convicts at Russian prisons but at the end of last year, Russia’s defence ministry reportedly pushed Wagner aside to take its place.

“The military have no idea how to deal with these people,” Olga Romanova, head of the prisoner rights group Russia Behind Bars, told The Telegraph.

You can imagine a group of prisoners, in their 30s and 40s, some of them repeated offenders, often convicted of violent crimes, who have very poor social skills and vague ideas about military discipline - and they get some young officer straight from military college as their commander.”

In arguably the most desperate appeal to date, mobilised men from the 1004th regiment were seen confronting a commander who was dispatched from their native Kaliningrad to respond to a brewing mutiny.

The men, seen from the back, kept shouting at the visiting commander that they have been used as “meat” and they refuse to go into attack.

“Why should I fight there? What for? Who for? They’re sending us to a sure death,” one man yelled.

“Go jail us! How much is it? Five, seven, 10? I don’t give a damn. At least I’ll get to live.”

The soldiers’ appeals also shed light on apparent friction between Russian troops and local militants in Donetsk who have been fighting against Ukrainian government troops since 2014.

The Kaliningrad recruits, like the men from Irkutsk, claimed separatist commanders from Donetsk have been refusing to “waste” ammunition artillery to support them, as one man said they were not given proper equipment or weapons.

“We get out there [to the front line] while [the Donetsk men] just sit around shamelessly, with all the equipment, night vision and stuff,” he said.

Leviev of the Conflict Intelligence Team says the Donetsk militants who have been running low on local recruits are increasingly resentful of the Russian arrivals.

“There might be a certain grudge that DNR people were used as cannon fodder for eight years and later forced into a peace treaty - now the Russians disappointed the separatists who for eight years were hoping [Russia] would grind the Ukrainian army into dust.”

The men’s complaints echo the UK Ministry of Defence’s report earlier this week that suggested a lack of supplies, as it said mobilised reservists were sent in to fight with firearms and shovels.

Officials from the men’s native regions have been trying to play down the protests, often by distributing the men to different units or sending them to the rear.

So far, however desperate the pleas are, Russia has yet to see a genuine wave of defection that would have an impact on its defence capabilities.

“Such stark appeals are still quite rare,” Leviev said.



“The frequency and volume of those complaints are still not enough to get the Russian commanders to give up the tactic of human wave attacks.”



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Mar 2023, 12:09
#2
12 Mar 2023, 12:09#2

I hope the above give you great happiness - but is it true or is it propaganda?

MO
MoonroverPro1,973 posts
12 Mar 2023, 13:13
#3
12 Mar 2023, 13:13#3

I have videos of the Ukraine nationalists dragging youngsters off the streets in Kyiv to go serve and die on their frontline. Not everyone was born a soldier. 

Had a mate not cut for for war shoot himself on guard duty near the border. Another was a recce,loved it,wild life. He's now a pastor overseas. 



PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Mar 2023, 14:58
#4
12 Mar 2023, 14:58#4

Mutiny on all sides would be great. Give the warmongers each a stick and let them beat each other until last man standing somewhere on the border to decide who wins the war.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Mar 2023, 15:19
#5
12 Mar 2023, 15:19#5

War is a terrible thing...

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Mar 2023, 15:57
#6
12 Mar 2023, 15:57#6

Agree with you - it always was a terrible thing.  However, to keep it going and not find a solution to stop the war is worse.   I aways distrust this kind of report.    If we follow all the reports on this war - constantly published on this site by warmongers - are true then the Russian troops are fleeing from Ukraine and the Ukraine troops are about to capture Moscow.        

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
13 Mar 2023, 11:23
#7
13 Mar 2023, 11:23#7
The youtube channel Perun posted up a video a few weeks back about Russia's grand strategy and Ukraine.
He makes a couple of very interesting points. One of them is that Russia may have already lost the war even if it wins on the battlefield.
He pointed out that even if Russia where to fully take the 4 oblasts its currently fighting for and Ukraine and the rest of the world agreed to recognize this and Ukraine agreed or was forced into accepting neutrality, look at the rest of the net outcomes.
Has the war helped protect Russia speakers?: No, far far more Russian speakers have been killed due to the invasion then where killed in the on and off fighting in the Donbass over the preceding years and that's going by the U.N's numbers and the numbers posted by the breakaway Luhansk's Peoples Republic.
Has the war weakened the United States?: No, America has got two major things it wanted for years, the end of Nordstream and European states now spending more money on defense. In addition it's now got a new market to sell LNG into. Its intelligence services have gaiend in credibility been fairly accurately been able to predict Russian moves. In anything its gained in power and influence.

Has NATO been weakened?: Absolutely not. Before the war some member states where question the point and purpose of NATO (Macron's braindead comment for example). Now there is no such questions. More than that European members states have committed to spending more on rearmament and NATO will also expand to include two new members with quite capable military. NATO's border with Russia will expand as a result.
Has Ukrainian nationalism been weakened?: Another resounding no. There is nothing like been invading by a neighboring country to help cement and strengthen the idea of Ukrainian national identity. Before the war, a larger minority of Ukrainians would have had a favorable view of Russia but that's plummeted since the Russian war.  There have been numerous reports of Russian speakers living in Ukraine, abandoning the Russian language and switching over to Ukrainian.

Has Ukraine been pulled back from its western orientation and back into Russia's sphere of influence?: Another resounding no. Its already more socially and economically integrated with the west. Europes power grid is now hooked up to Ukraine, increased rail links into Poland, reduced trade friction. It may take a while but Ukraine will inevitable join the EU.

Will the annexed regions economically make up for the cost of the war?: Very unlikely. While the east of Ukraine is resource rich, the infrastructure there has been wrecked and its population vastly reduced. Those who remain are mostly pensioners.  So Russia would have to go about rebuilding and repopulating it. Any infrastructure they build could be potentially vulnerable to at least partially hostile population. Even if they do go to the time and effort of rebuilding the infrastructure and population then there is the question of how and to how do you sell the resources too.
Has Russia's influence been enhanced. In the west, approval ratings for Russia have dropped significantly with far fewer people holding a favorable view of Russia than before the war. Perhaps in the likes of China its risen but I suspect most countries populations of those countries who report to be neutral have not become anymore favorable than before the war. There is increasing signs that the former Soviet states like Kazakhstan have taken advantage of Russian weakness to peruse its own nationalistic agenda (see the territory dispute with Armenia) and appears to be mostly complying with western sanctions.

Has Russia's economy been enhanced? Another resounding no. Firstly Russia has lost alot if not most of its access to western markets, which are the richest markets in the world. It lacks the infrastructure to sell to other countries on the same scale as it did sell to Europe. If your heavily restricted in who you can sell energy too, like say China and India, you hand them the leverage in price negotiations. They can demand lower prices because Russia has no where else to sell it too in quantity.  Russia's demography wasn't looking good before the war with a declining population. The war has accelerated the decline with probably with many many thousands killed or wounded and thousands more have fled the country to avoid mobilization. Russia has been a major arms export but Russian military equipment has suffered reputational damage as a result of the war. If you where looking to buy weapons, why would you want to buy from Russia, is it a reliable partner to supply and maintain weapons under all these sanctions. Will Russia need to spend years prioritizing the rebuilding of its own armed forces before it can supply significant quantities of weapons over sea's. Would you want to buy weapons system that seem to preform poorly against western equivalents. All of this and top of the hundreds of billions of dollars cost spent directly on the war itself.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Mar 2023, 14:02
#8
13 Mar 2023, 14:02#8

Stav

Thanks for the info - happy you believe the story.   Just one point of difference - the US is losing the plot - the present Presidency has caused instability throughout the world and the US Army is undermined from within based on the present weak army leadership and the Woke Culture and a decline in volunteers to serve in the army.  Fact.    The only thing that the USA politicians and bureaucrats gained from the Ukraine war is limitless corruption - the country as a whole gained nothing from it.      

— END OF THREAD —

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