Yet our sad bent pseudo 'Christians' wholeheartedly support this genocide.
Sies.
This is 21st Century Europe...absolutely horrible!!!
How it comes that non respect of integrity of territory does not come as one crime only.
About civilian casualties, a comparison to the war against Iraq tells a lot.
Russian troops are behaving.
Liberals are not against war crimes, they are all about eliminating the least effective war crime doers.
ButtPlug, jou moer.
Did you get the above from the Ukraine Regime? Horrible - but not necessary reliable. I thought the Ukraine army is counter-attacking - but is that true? According to them and their supporters on site the cities indicated is under total control of the Ukraine Government.
Blobbrain you are a hopeless brain dead zombie.
Those figures are more than likely propaganda.
What you need to get into your very thick skull is this war was planned and instigated by US led NATO.
That means that they are chiefly responsible for what has happened.
Not only did they cause this war but they also don't want it to stop. Hence they got Zelensky to drop the peace agreement he had signed with Russia! What more proof do you need dumbass.
Agreed Plum. Ou blobbie is a really thick plank. He rejects the facts and peddles propaganda. Refuses to see the truth. It's dispicable.
No doubt at all that there are many faults on both sides of this fence... and a lot that has transpired that we will never really know the full truth about.
Serious question though....
If any sovereign country, wants to join NATO, all of their own accord, with absolutely no pressure from anyone....and purely because they don't really feel very safe or secure being on Russia's border.....who has the right to stop that process?
And I flip this question both ways to an example that w as put on this forum a while ago..... what would the USA do if Mexico permitted Russia to move some of their nuclear arms to their shores.... because Mexico did not join NATO.
DA
Lets get this straight - as much as the Ukrainians have reasons to distrust the Russians - the Russians have to distrust the Ukrainians and especially their USA bosses.
The problem actually started in WW2 - when with the Germans invading Ukraine the Ukrainian speaking people led by Bandera sided with the Germans. He as the tool used by the Germns to get rid of the Jews and Poles in the Ukraine and many people ended up in camps where they lost their lives. As big a bastard as Hitler Stalin was he ally of the Alliance that ultimately lost the war. In the end Bandera fled to the
"All I'm saying is, nobody has a clean record...and we should stop pretending that it's a simple case of good versus evil because it's exactly that type of narrow minded tribalism that allows this shit to occur...and to continue, over and over"
Yep, fully agreed Plum
"DA
Lets get this straight"
Mike, lets get this straight....I did not ask for a history lesson.....how about just debating my question
I don’t think if Mexico went Communist, the US would invade. If Russia placed nuclear weapons there, they probably would take action…witness Cuba. But also witness, the US did not invade, they tried to unseat Castro through the half hearted , proxy led, Bay of Pigs invasion. But the only direct action was a blockade
And the Cuban crisis was addressing the citing of nuclear missiles close to America…an existential threat. The Ukraine poses no such threat. So under much more serious provocation the US response was much more measured.
Ukraine wants to join NATO…that wish, not even having joined NATO, is no justification for Russia’s brutal invasion.
I don’t think if Mexico went Communist and the rest
The US invaded Haiti. Any enlightening opinion about that as liberals've been enlightening the world since 1776.
I’m not a liberal, I’m a conservative and those events are ancient history.
If Germany or France had invaded Ukraine instead of Russia, then NATO or the West would not support them.
The West does try to dictate world terms, but I don't see imperialism to the extent that they try to take over a country and absorb them into their own country.
Dream on Mozart
There were multiple issues that led to the Invasion and the reason negotiations to prevent the war failed have been the USA.. So it is a 50:50 situation - Russia should not hsve attacked Ukraine. The USA should have actively support peace negotiation initiatives and not sabotage it'
Get out of here ............................ what country wouldn't fight back when invaded?
These Putin apologists really sicken me.
All this bullshit about Russia being provoked or someone else should have done more to stop it or this crap about Ukrainian Nazis . . . it's absolutely sickening . . . and it's all the contemptible bible- bashers who are cheering Putin on.
There's only one bad guy here and if you disagree, you're a disgraceful human being who would probably have been cheering Hitler on 80 years ago.
Are the grown-ups here gonna tell me they see no way out of this other than the war continuing?
You got something better than supplying Russian's with VPN's or just giving in to all their demands. Because neither of those answers are grown up answers I'm afraid.
Perhaps you haven't noticed but Russia isn't going anywhere, and Ukraine only have so many soldiers.
The Ukrainian's have already pushed back the Russian's several times. What's to say they can't do it again. And perhaps you haven't noticed recent events but Russia doesn't look to be the most stable of places these days.
Ukraine hasn't come close to running out of manpower. Ukraine now has a larger population than France did during World War I for example where almost 8 million served in the French Army.
I’m not a liberal, I’m a conservative and those events are ancient history.
The nothingness.
Answered many times: liberal, liberalism is used as a term to refer to the liberal political philosophy.
The US have been a liberal nation and nothing other than a liberal nation. No matter the moniker factions give themselves.
As to history, Cuba obviously is not ancient history, the constitution is not ancient history etc
Double standards at every level.
The West does try to dictate world terms, but I don't see imperialism to the extent that they try to take over a country and absorb them into their own country.
What a world a liberal world.
When looking at the UK history, the number of countries the UK has waged war against and invaded, it is better when listing them to go for all those that the UK did not invade, way eaiser (notice: some of them are newly created countries that the UK could not invade due to inexistence)
Of course, the West do not try to invade and take over a country, they have already done the job.
The West has shaped the world to benefit their own interest and maintenance follows.
What next: the US no longer rob from the Indians. Newsflash: the land transfer from the Indians to white people was achieved more than a century ago.
So yeah, the US no longer rob land from the Indians.
I don't get how anyone who is fair and looks at the evidence could assign much blame to Ukraine if any at all.
About the only thing you could argue is Ukraine's desire to join NATO was provocative to Russia and this was the sole reason Russia invaded Ukraine.
But in order to do that you have to turn a blind to the historical revisionism and irredentists claims Russia had been making about Ukraine for years.
You have to ignore the false claims that the 2014 revolution was a Western backed coup.
You have to ignore several false flag operations the Russian's conducted in the run up to the invasion.
You have to ignore the false claims of genocide in the Donbass.
You have to ignore the false claims about Neo-Nazi's running Ukraine.
You have to ignore the exaggerated claims Russia made about Ukraine's language laws and Russian's being persecuted in Ukraine.
You have to ignore the false claims NATO facilities where already in Ukraine.
If you look at all Russia's claims in their entirety its hard not to conclude they where just looking for an excuse to invade Ukraine. Had NATO/Ukraine given Russia cast iron guarantees that Ukraine would never join NATO their is no guarantee that Russia would have said hey we don't believe you and still invaded or invaded using one of the other lies they made up about Ukraine as justification.
So basically those arguing Ukraine is as much to blame for the war as Russia is are saying Ukraine wanting to join NATO as the same as all those other Russia's action's. That Ukraine had no justification for seeking to join NATO, that Russian had taken no actions that might make Ukraine feel compelled to try to join NATO.
Sorry but bullshit. Putin wanted this war and if you can't see that you're deluding yourself.
So Ukraine arresting Russian speaking people - operating with USA assistance bio-labs with dangerous application to all of Europe and the world and whose leaders are advocating ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking people living in the Ukraine are not a reason for the Russians to attack and ty to protect the Russians living within Ukraine.
Before the invasion Ukraine sent 60 000 soldier to crush the rebels in East Ukraine and then take their revenge on the Russian-speaking people living in the area. You do not think that banning Russian from the Ukraine schools when circa 40% of the people in Ukraine has Russian as their home language?
Do you think that the peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia signed weeks before the invasion was disregarded by Russia and not Ukraine and who caused that initiative of Macron to fail?
In the end I blame Putin for 50% of the failure to maintain peace in Ukraine and Zelenskyy the USA puppet in Kiev for the other 50%. There should never have been a war in Ukraine if the USA supported peace initiatives. The USA under a totally corrupt and incompetent Biden administration that turned everything they touched into shit - wanted the war to take peoples mind away from their failures - end of story.
Stav
Pleased deny proof of anything I said not being factual - or are you a stooge who beleive BS spreading is the rule that everybody should abide by?
H as the Obama and Biden Administrations ever said they are supporting the EU country efforts to implement peaceful efforts in respect of Ukraine? They enver did in 2015 and never did in the weeks before the invasion in fact took place. Instead they sabotaged peace talks by persuading Zelenskyy to tear up the latest peace agreement promoted by Macron.
The Ukraine ended up pushing back the Russians from where and when. Looking at the latest war operational map in Ukraine where did that happen and when? Are you part of the "sueful idiots" promoting the Ukraine won the war story?
I wonder what a "sueful idiot" is . . . someone with a very bad lawyer who presses a lot of charges?
Another claim:
the situation of the language.
It must be reminded that the current Ukrainian government was elected (and backed up by so called international community) on the ground they would enforce and respect language rights.
And follows a program of forced assimilation. On this point, the russian community is not the only one targeted, other communities suffer from the treatment. Up to the point that those communities lodged formal and official complaints to their country of ancestry so that the country intercedes with the Ukrainian government.
Again, lack of reaction from liberals and then escalation.
Liberals build strawsmen. None of the claims are valid because they are exaggerated due to the lack of reaction.
This avoids them to examine the claims that are valid.
Once scaled back, the claims provide more than enough ground for a liberal country to intervene. Liberal countries intervene for much less.
Liberals supposedly support the idea of sovereignty. Not so much though as they dismiss the possibility for Russia to intervene on ground that would be considered more than enough for a liberal country to intervene.
Liberals and their contempt, glorious among the glorious.
By the way, any comment about the Ukrainian government behaviour to bar Indians, Muslims and quota people from using public transportation during the initial russian invasion or this is another liberal moment carry off, nothing to see.
Thinking that Putin is only 50% responsible for this war is just delusional ....
There is a reason why Putin is losing support from all over the world.... including from within his own country ..
There is also a very valid reason why so many neutral sovereign countries do not trust Russia at all.... and that they are all independently and separately applying to join NATO...
You cannot turn a blind eye or bullshit as to why all of these isolated developments are happening around the world...
Do I think the West are at fault somewhere in this whole conflict between Russia and Ukraine ..... yeah I definitely do.
Do I think that justifies Putin declaring war on a sovereign country, and torturing, raping and shelling thousands and thousands of innocent people...... not a fucking chance in hell.
So Stav, Rooinek-doos, SB and BB support ethnic cleansing of all Russians living in Ukraine and the Crimea as stated by Zelenskyy's Chief Advisor? Why do they support ethnic cleansing in Ukraine, Pleas explain.
By the way, any comment about the Ukrainian government behaviour to bar Indians, Muslims and quota people from using public transportation during the initial russian invasion or this is another liberal moment carry off, nothing to see.
Sure I'll give a comment. So during the start of the invasion there was several reports that non white, non Ukrainian's where facing discrimination in leaving Ukraine and trying to get into Poland. Ukrainian border guards where accused of favouring helping Ukrainian citizens flee. From the amount of reports of this I would say it would likely true and I would absolutely condemn such behaviour. You would you like to take the opportunity to condemn the Russian invasion the reason those non Ukrainian's had to flee in the first place?
As for a ban on using public transport, I've heard nothing about that and I'd be extremely dubious of such a claim. I've seen video footage of non Ukrainian's taking trains and interviews of non Ukrainian's after they left Ukraine saying the fled from Kharkiv and travelled across Ukraine to get to Poland, if they had been banned from taking public transport how did they get there? Also if there was ban there would of been international reporting and you would have governments and human rights groups criticizing such a move.
Now if there was such a ban again I would again condemn it. Unlike Mike perhaps you have a set of balls and can link to evidence that the Ukrainian government banned Indian's, Muslims and quota people from using public transport?
To me its pretty clear what you're up to here. You're trying to imply that the racism in Ukraine is widespread. Racism is one of the attributes of Nazism and in your previous post you talked absolute rubbish about Ukraine building a national identity around Nazism. One of the non Ukrainian's interviewed in Poland who experienced the discrimination non Ukrainian's had in fleeing Ukraine said Ukraine had given her so much (referring to her life studying in Ukraine) indicating up to the point of the invasion she was happy living in Ukraine. Now I know a single interview doesn't mean much on its own but likewise you couldn't just take what happened at the Ukraine Poland border crossing and extrapolate it to the whole of Ukraine.
No one is saying Ukraine is a perfect country. It was very corrupt country and I did see an absolutely appalling news segment on a care facility in Ukraine for children with disabilities, it was genuinely quite distressing to watch and while I absolutely support the idea of Ukraine joining the EU they still need to meet all the criteria required to do so and their shouldn't be any exceptions made to the rules on account of the war. But for all its faults Ukraine it's done nothing to warrant being invaded by Russia.
So Stav, Rooinek-doos, SB and BB support ethnic cleansing of all Russians living in Ukraine and the Crimea as stated by Zelenskyy's Chief Advisor?
Link please?
Why do they support ethnic cleansing in Ukraine, Pleas explain.
I absolutely don't, I think its appalling and that the Russian's should stop doing it immediately.