Russian War Crimes

"So Stav, Rooinek-doos, SB and BB support ethnic cleansing of all Russians living in Ukraine and the Crimea as stated by Zelenskyy's Chief Advisor? "  

Mike 

How about for once.... just once.....you actually show some balls, be a man, and post a link to when or where any of the po sters you refer to above, posted anything about supporting the ethnic cleansing of Russian people living in the Ukraine...

Those are incredibly incendiary comments to make about multiple posters on this forum..... so it deserves some type of proof to go along with this disgusting accusation. 

Now if there was such a ban again I would again condemn it.

Ah, liberals. Cant stop from being liberal.

All hypothetical, demand massive elements to be convinced, would do this if that is validated.

Any way, on the point, people who support Ukraine have supported the practice.

That is all that matters.

It sure weakens any moral higher ground liberals like to claim.

Ah, liberals. Cant stop from being liberal.

Christ did you get payed to say the word liberal?

All hypothetical, demand massive elements to be convinced, would do this if that is validated.

Demand massive elements? The word your looking for is evidence, like any evidence? All you have to do is to provide a link where the Ukrainian government announced it was banning those groups you mentioned from public transport?

No.

Not evidences, elements.

An evidence is an element brought to scrutinity and carrying over consequences.

As to the government, any police officer (or any state agent) is the government. That was the point made earlier. Ukraine does not need to be run by Nazis for the government to take nazi compatible measures.On the spot, with no concerting, measures as that one were applied by the government.

What is looked for is an order from the top government to prevent thar practice. Which is much needed due to the nazi cultural imprint. They will be hard to find, way harder than the orders given to bar non white people from fleeing the invasion using public transportation.

No.

Not evidences, elements.

An evidence is an element brought to scrutinity and carrying over consequences.

As to the government, any police officer (or any state agent) is the government. That was the point made earlier. Ukraine does not need to be run by Nazis for the government to take nazi compatible measures.On the spot, with no concerting, measures as that one were applied by the government.

So a country isn't ran by Nazi's but its Nazi's compatible? What gibberish is this?

What is looked for is an order from the top government to prevent thar practice. Which is much needed due to the nazi cultural imprint. They will be hard to find, way harder than the orders given to bar non white people from fleeing the invasion using public transportation.

What a world you live in. Must be nice to be able to just believe what you want to believe, no evidence required.

 Stav, you're being 

Must be nice to be able to just believe what you want to believe, no evidence required.

People usually believe what they want to believe. An evidence does not escape it. Any element can be denied.

As shown by liberals.

So a country isn't ran by Nazi's but its Nazi's compatible? What gibberish is this?

Liberals are obsessed with the rule of law. They reduce every behaviour to a matter of law;

In the Ukraine, people are culturally compatible with nazism. No law is required for them to behave in ways compatible with nazism.It boils down to a culture that is centered on nazism. They do not need to be run by a nazi government to do it.

Now when those people are the government, they do not need directives to apply governmental orders compatible with nazism.They behave accordingly to their cultural background.

Still no link yet Mike......

Come on..... put those big girl panties on and post an example link or post to corroborate what you have accused these posters of.

In the Ukraine, people are culturally compatible with nazism. No law is required for them to behave in ways compatible with nazism.It boils down to a culture that is centered on nazism. They do not need to be run by a nazi government to do it.

You think Ukraine culture is centred on Nazism? 

Hmmm a Slavic race with a Jewish President is culturally ce ntred on Nazism, the same Ukraine that had 7 million of its people fight in the Soviet Red Army against the Nazi's and 2.5 million where awarded medals and orders for there service. Like for real that's what your arguing? 

Arguing not so much.

As reported, all this happened under the yoke of the soviets.

As the Ukrainians wanted to distance themselves from Russia and therefore of the soviet period, they have built a national identity around nazi heroes from the WW2 who fought the Soviets.

It is not toward the Ukrainian people who fought in the soviet army they looked at, it is at the people who welcomed trains of deported people to taunt them, welcoming them with a thumb slicing the throat sign etc

As the Ukrainians wanted to distance themselves from Russia and therefore of the soviet period, they have built a national identity around nazi heroes from the WW2 who fought the Soviets.

Russian propaganda. Have you considered the possibility that those who celebrate the likes of Bandera do so out of reverence for him fighting for an independent Ukraine as opposed to him being an antisemite. a fascist and his act's of collaboration with the Nazi's?

It is not toward the Ukrainian people who fought in the soviet army they looked at, it is at the people who welcomed trains of deported people to taunt them, welcoming them with a thumb slicing the throat sign etc

No one is disputing that a significant number of Ukrainian's particularly in Western Ukraine collaborated with the Nazi's who they viewed as liberators when they first entered Ukraine. But opinion was not long in changing once the Ukrainian's where exposed to the Nazi's brutality. What is also without dispute is that far more Ukrainian's fought against that Nazi's than with them, the Ukrainian people also suffered greatly at the at the hands of Nazi's. 

But now 78 years later your suggesting Ukraine has decided to align its culture to Nazism?

Stav

Here is a statement by Zelenskyy' chief adcvisor on peace negotiations:-

" On 5 April 2023, Podolyak declared that Ukraine should "completely close everything related to the Russian cultural space" in Crimea and advocated the deportation of its Russian-speaking population."

Came from Wikipedia

That is the thinking of the Ukraine Government - if what he said is not ethnic cleansing - what ekes is it.

It is obviously what Zelenskyy himself think about the issue.   If h e does not unwerwrtie the above h e should fire the madman.

You saw th at quote a number of times in the past and ran for cover because it exposes what the real objective of Zelenskyy is.   Anyway you will not respond to the above as well since it made a fool out of  you with your constant Guardian rhetoric BS.         

Anyway 

The above is BS.    He was not striving  for independence - but became an ally of the Germans.   He was directly linked to the death camps for Jews which was in Poland  - He was in charge in Ukraine of the Civil Government at the time and any soft-soaping  by you is contra to what really happened.    So e fought for independence by allying himself to Nazi Germany.   A Nazi collaborator a freedom fighter.   Magnificent - stupidity beyond believe.         

" On 5 April 2023, Podolyak declared that Ukraine should "completely close everything related to the Russian cultural space" in Crimea and advocated the deportation of its Russian-speaking population."

Came from Wikipedia

That is the thinking of the Ukraine Government - if what he said is not ethnic cleansing - what ekes is it.

I agree with you Mike, the forceable deportation of any ethic group would constitute ethnic cleansing.

Since we are both in agreement on what constitutes ethic cleansing you should therefore have no hesitation in condemning Russia for actually implementing ethic cleaning by forceable deporting thousands of children to Russia from the occupied territories.

It is obviously what Zelenskyy himself think about the issue.   If h e does not unwerwrtie the above h e should fire the madman.

Well no its not exactly clear what Zelenskyy think. If Ukraine manage to reclaim Crimea or other occupied territories we start getting into the difficult area of punishment for collaborators, how do you determine who collaborated willing and who did so only as a means to survive and live. Is a policy of reconciliation better which personally I think it would be, but no one is kidding themselves its going be difficult take to reabsorb the long term occupied area's back into Ukraine if they manage to liberate them. It's not going to be perfect.

Personally I would be against deportation of Russian's who lived in Crimea before 2014 (though people who want to leave willing should be allowed to do so) with the exception being the 300,000 Russian who have moved to Crimea since 2014, they can unquestionable be sent packing back to Russia, they have no legal right to be Crimea and are just squatters. If they feel aggrieved with that they can seek compensation from the Russian government who encouraged them to go there.

Should the guy be fired?. Under peace time circumstances he should be In times of war I can see why its more tolerated, not that I support the position.

You saw th at quote a number of times in the past and ran for cover because it exposes what the real objective of Zelenskyy is.   Anyway you will not respond to the above as well since it made a fool out of  you with your constant Guardian rhetoric BS.         

WTF are you talking about, that's the first time I've seen that quote and I'm actually happy to have a debate on his because it makes a nice change from you making up rubbish. As for running for cover, lol where are those Biden quotes again?

The above is BS.    He was not striving  for independence - but became an ally of the Germans.   He was directly linked to the death camps for Jews which was in Poland  - He was in charge in Ukraine of the Civil Government at the time and any soft-soaping  by you is contra to what really happened.    So e fought for independence by allying himself to Nazi Germany.   A Nazi collaborator a freedom fighter.   Magnificent - stupidity beyond believe.    

Of course Mike omits certain facts such as the fact the Nazi's arrested Bandera just 12 days after they invaded Russia because a few days after the invasion he made a proclamation that Ukraine was an independent state and kept him imprisoned till September 44 when the Nazi's  who where getting desperate at this point in the war released him with the aim of getting his organisation to conduct partisan war against the Soviets but it appears he didn't go along with the German plans. So while absolutely the organisation he formed did participate in killings of Poles and Jew's he wasn't personally involved in the murders and there is not any evidence of that I'm aware of that he even knew they where going on, let alone that he was involved in their planning. 

You write bs as per normal and have no proof of it other than Ukraine Government claims.   What children have  the Russians deported  to Russia?    The original claim related to allegations that children was deported to Russia and that fell flat because the allegation was proved to be that women and children in the war zone - that is in the main area under the rebel control was evacuated to Russia from Eastern Ukraine areas under Rebel control to ensure safety.  Then they turned around and claimed that children who went to receive their education in Russia  after Ukraine banned the teaching of Russian and using Russian in schools by the Government was not returned to their parents in Ukraine.    Is there any evidence of Russia forcefully sent Ukraine-speaking children to Russia - ZERO.   

As to the issue of what Zelenskyy thinks about deportation of Russian speaking people from Eastern Ukraine and if they ever get hold of the Crimea again is according to you not clear,    If he does not agree with the quote above then why does he no ire the bloody Nazi.    Well we have seen what Zelenskyy does think - after the Russian -speaking members of the Ukraine Parliament supported the motion to condemn any potential invasion of the Ukraine - he had them arrested and you claimed they were sabotaging Ukraine.   Did they undermine Ukraine by condemning a potential invasion by Russia?    Where are those arrested individuals now.   In a recent press meeting in Kiev - a journalist ask the Government spokesman where those arrested individuals are and he claimed he does not know.   Then you came with the weird claim that they were in the prisoner exchange program - but they were not.   So where are the arrested Parliamentarians?    Are they still alive?  Doubt very much if the Asov battalion got hold of them. 

Where did the 300 000  Russians "moving into the Crimea" come from?     85% of the Crimea population are Russian-speaking and has always been Russian speaking since the time when the Crimea sultanate was captured by the Russians in the 1770''s .    The percentage was not that high in the 1930's when about 3,5 million of the total Tartan population was deported  to Siberia  by Stalin and only 200 000 deportees returned from the slave camps.   At present the population is as follows:-

*    85% Russian speaking people ;

*     10%   Tartan Muslims;

*      4%    Ukraine speaking people.

In the referendum  held before the Crimea was incorporated into Russia in 2014-15 95% of e voters supported incorporation so are they all collaborators with the Russians?   Were the famous 300 000 be Russian Speakers who fled to the Crimea from the rest of Ukraine?

You cannot say you did not see the above quotation about oppression of the Russian culture and deportation of Russians  before - it was discussed in two earlier threats - but ignored by you since it does not tie in with your adoration of  Zelenskyy.    The idiot who is quoted is involved in efforts to find a peaceful solution to the war - that is exactly in a position he should never be.  

As to Bandera I read the whole of Wikipedia about him and was struck by the Guadian that it was Russian propaganda that Bandera was a Nazi co-operator.   I do not think Wikipedia as Russian propaganda - he clearly was a Nazi -supporting person with views indicating he was an 'honorary" prisoner.    Amazing - the bastard was a Nazi and also believed in he Ukraine Super Race.

Your believe in  The Guardian story about Rusia lying about Bandera must be accepted as BS.   Read the whole bloody disgusting history of Bandera according to Wikipedia .  He was made a national hero of Ukraine in 2011  and that honorary title was withdrawn   When did that withdrawal take place - he still is a Hero of Ukraine.   You must be the most gullible person imaginable to come up with the posting on Bandera.             

Russian propaganda. Have you considered the possibility that those who celebrate the likes of Bandera do so out of reverence for him fighting for an independent Ukraine as opposed to him being an antisemite. a fascist and his act's of collaboration with the Nazi's?

What. Liberals have grown way too used to cherrypicking consequences.

It also is correct liberals rever slavers all in the name of freedom. So.

As to the russian bit, no knowledge comes from russian sources. All of it comes from reputed scholars working in liberal countries (and not ones who might be smeared with suspicion of being bought out by Russians)

You write bs as per normal and have no proof of it other than Ukraine Government claims.   What children ahs the Russians deported  to Russia?    The original claim related to allegations that children was deported to Russia and that fell flat because the allegation was proved to be that women and children in the war zone - that is in the main area under the rebel control was evacuated to Russia from Eastern Ukraine areas under Rebel control to ensure safety.  Then they turned around and claimed that children who went to receive their education in Russia  after Ukraine banned the teaching of Russian and using Russian in schools by the Government was not returned to their parents in Ukraine.    Is there any evidence of Russia forcefully sent Ukraine-speaking children to Russia - ZERO.   

The UN disagrees

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A_HRC_52_62_AUV_EN.pdf

And of course you unquestionable parrot Russian propaganda..

As to the issue of what Zelenskyy thinks about deportation of Russian speaking people from Eastern Ukraine and if they ever et hold of the Crimea again is according to you not clear,    If he does not agree with the quote above then why does he no ire the bloody Nazi. 

He probably doesn't fire him because he's useful to him and he's not a Nazi. I mean FFS Mike you think a Jew would have a Nazi as an advisor? 

Well we have seen what Zelenskyy does think - after the Russian -speaking members of the Ukraine Parliament supported the motion to condemn any potential invasion of the Ukraine - he had them arrested and you claimed they were sabotaging the Ukraine.   Did they undermine Ukraine by condemning a potential invasion by Russia?    Were are those arrested individuals now.   In a recent press meeting in Kiev - a journalist ask the Government spokesman where theose arrested individuals are and he claimed he does not know.   Then you came with the weird claim that they were in the prisoner exchange program - but they were not.   So where are the afrrested Parliamentarians?    Are they still alive?  Doubt very much if the Asov battalion got hold of them. 

Yawn more Russian propaganda.

Where did the 300 000  Russians "moving into the Crimea" come from?  

Emm..Russia?

85% of the Crimea population are Russian-speaking and has always been Russian speaking since the time when the Crimea sultiante was captured by the Russians in the 1770''s .

Wrong the Russian's have may have taken over Crimea then but the Tartars remained the single largest majority till around 1900.

 The percentage was not that high in the 1930's when about 3,5 million of te total population was deported  by stalin to Siberia  by Stalin and only 200 000 deportees returned from the slave camps.   At present the population is as follows:-

*    85% Russian speaking people ;

*     10%   Tratan Muslims;

*      4%    Ukraine speaking people.

In the referendum  held before the Crimea was incorporated into Russia in 2014-15 95% of e voters supported incorporation so are they all collaborators with the Russians?  

And Mike now plugging the Russian shame referendum. Sitting in the same boat with other such illustrious members as Cuba, Syria and North Koera 

Were the famous 300 000 be Russian Speakers who fled to the Crimea from the rest of Ukraine?

Seriously are you a moron?

You cannot say you did not see the above quotation about oppression of the Russian culture and deportation of Russians  before - it was discussed in two earlier threats, but ignored by you since it does not tie in with your adoration of  Zelenskyy. 

Discussion is not the same as seeing, I know you talked about it but that's the same thing as actually reading the comments. Because here's the thing Mike I don't believe a word you say, you're a bare faced liar where if you not outright lying your twisting sometime that contains a element of truth into some totally exaggerated and propagandised.

The idiot who is quoted is involved in efforts to find a peaceful solution to the war - that is exactly in a position he should never be.  

You're in no position to call anyone else an idiot.

As to Bandera I read the whole of Wikipedia about him

Wow...do you want a medal? I guess that makes you an expert on all things Bandera related.

and was struck by the Guadian that it was Russian propaganda that Bandera was a Nazi co-operator.

Why have I sneaking suspicion that you're mispresenting the guardian. The Russian's are trying to cast Bandera supporters in Ukraine as Nazi's as a justification for their actions. You of course are prompting that lie. 

 I do not think Wikipedia as Russian propaganda 

It's a website that can be edited by anyone and is not considered a reliable source of information.

 he clearly was a Nazi -supporting person with views indicating he was an 'honorary" prisoner.    Amazing - the bastard was a Nazi and also believed in he Ukraine Super Race.

He was clearly a fascist, as to a Nazi that is debatably. But he was also indisputably a Ukrainian nationalist

Your believe in Guardian propaganda must be accepted as BS.   Read the whole bloody disgusting history of Bandera according to Wikipedia .  He was made a national hero of Ukraine in 2011  and that honorary title was withdrawn   When did that withdrawal took place - he still is a Hero of Ukraine.   You must be the most gullible person imaginable to come up with the posting on Bandera.             

No Mike that would be you.

Also still no like to those Biden quotes?

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