So erm.....

"WW2 and Covid are not the same thing so it's pretty weird that you'd attempt to equate them."

I was using it as example where personal freedoms where curtailed for the greater good of society. In modern societies, speed limits on road and limits on drink driving are also limits on personal freedoms, but are in place for the benefits of society as a whole.

"Are you aware of how many people die each year? Strokes and heart disease killed 16.2m people in 2016, that we know of.

Despite covid being a new virus the total death count doesn't nearly scratch the surface of the big killers."

Not a fair comparison. Lets give the entire population of the planet Covid in one year and than compare the death rate.

Its also completely irrelevant, strokes and heart attacks are not contagious.

"If you agree to be locked in for Covid then you better be very ready to give up many more of your freedoms in future. Not only that, but you better expect that dissenting voices will be silenced regardless of how qualified and experienced those voices are. We're long past screaming fire in a crowded cinema and almost at the point of burning textbooks. You may be happy with where we site on the spectrum of limitations on free speech but I am not.

Its cliche now but there is always a really good reason to give up just a little more of your liberty. Small costs that never show dividends. "

This is fear mongering I'm afraid. What freedoms do I need to be prepared to give up? As for dissenting voices, everyone is free to present their viewpoints, but unless they can back up their viewpoint with evidence they can be called out for offering unsubstantiated views that are worthless. And if these views are proven to be factually wrong and are also harmful to individual or society then yes they should be censored.

"At some point, people need to stop and realise much access to their minds social media and personal technology have. And then they need to ask themselves how much of what they are doing and accepting are direct results of interactions with software and technology owned and designed by private entities that aim only to increase their bottom line."

I agree with this.

"It's not at all anecdotal. What i described is true in many parts of SA and as concerns tens of millions of people. I'm just telling you that I have witnessed it too.

Ask other board members that also reside in SA and they will tell you exactly the same story. Note, I have not conspired with them beforehand haha."

A half dozen or dozen people detailing their personal experience of Covid is still anecdotal and not satistical significant in a country the size of SA or the population of SA."

"Is only an opinion. I demonstrated to you what an absolute abnormality the US statistics are via official fatality figures and then presented an argument that includes  what the CDC are saying, and your response amounts to, .."America has overall handled it badly."

Again, the onus is on you prove that its closer to 220k than to 6% of 220k.

Ja, I'm not convinced by that 6% figure either, but the whole 220K? Truth is probably  somewhere in between.

Here Star, from your article...

Under a subheading labelled “comorbidities”—additional conditions people experienced in addition to a primary diagnosis such as COVID-19—the NCHS shared that “for 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned” on a death certificate, meaning that only 6 percent of individuals had no underlying health complications other than COVID-19 reported when they died. The statement continued, “for deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.” 

Hence, me saying the figure is closer to 6% of 220K than to 220k.

And again, the international fatality figures back up the fact that America's fatality count is bloated.

Ja, I'm not convinced by that 6% figure either, but the whole 220K? Truth is probably  somewhere in between.

Is exactly what I'm saying. 

And when you get that figure somewhere in the middle then you have to conclude that America did nowhere near as badly as what people are saying.

@ Plum

That's cheery picking part of the article and ignoring the rest of it. 

Such as

“However, it is also clear that advanced age and several other underlying diseases lead to bad outcomes with COVID infections. The people dying were not going to die but for the acquisition of COVID.”

"And when you get that figure somewhere in the middle then you have to conclude that America did nowhere near as badly as what people are saying."

Its quite possible the American death tool is actually an underestimate if your looking at excess death figures.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/official-us-coronavirus-death-toll-is-a-substantial-undercount-of-actual-tally-new-yale-study-finds.html

You have no grounds to say the figure is somewhere in the middle. There is no evidence to suggest America is over reporting the numbers and their is nothing unique about the way America classify Covid deaths over other comparable countries. Other countries count people who die of other conditions brought on by Covid as Covid deaths as well.

Why so agro Rooitit?

Oh wait, I forgot.

I'll take a few pics next time I drive past Zandspruit, which I should be doing tomorrow morning.

When I post the pictures and it shows life as normal with nobody wearing masks...will you admit that you're in fact the liar?

Deal?

This just got interesting....

Challenge accepted it seems.... and if Plum provides the proof, he will just end up becoming another poster who has easily shown up Rooinek for the blatant and dishonest bloke that most of us already know him to be

Should be fun

FFS Anger....it’s “cherry picking”.....not “cheery picking”. And it’s no typo you have done this before.

Why sue a pauper?

"modest and insignificant achievements in life"

You are still the only poster to come on here...... doing your utmost to convince so many anonymous people, that you are actually a decent and honest person in real life, and you also state that most people on this forum know you far better than your own bloody family do...….. so if ever the terms "modest" and "insignificant" applied to anyone.... it is most certainly you Piss Mint

"It's actually hard to imagine a bigger loser"

Seriously guys...… I am a "honest" guy in the real world...…I swear to you all.... genuine okes

You guys know me better than my own family does.....

ROTF LMFAO.... enough said

...

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...

.

...

...

...

Now, Rooi...

The only question is, are you man enough to apologise?

Let's back-track to what you said...

"I'll be waiting for an unreserved apology"

I would expect nothing less for you Plum

"makes you look like a complete dick"

Someone on this forum looks like a complete and utter prized dick...... in front of every single person that frequents this forum..... and it definitely ain't you Plum

"and I'm still calling you a liar"

This statement is coming from the boards most notoriously dishonest and deceitful poster.....you could not have scripted this better

ROTFLMFAO

Thank you for posting multiple images Plum, because that would have been Piss Mint's way out.... oh, you only posted one pic, anyone can do that..... but...… 10 different pics with not one mask in sight...…

Fucking hilarious stuff !!

Plum, I have no idea why, but I had you down as a Samsung man ……. a tech kinda guy

Clearly I had that all wrong...…

DA,

The pics are also geo-tagged in case he attempts to claim it's not the exact township that he was talking about.

Lol, with Piss Mint, you really do have to  think of everything

The squirming begins...…

It very quickly got a bit hot around here for someone.....

LOL DA

My kak C hina phone is my pride and joy. It's a terrible phone but I'm on a mission to make it last for five years and I'm entering the fifth year now.

 I refuse to buy a new one until this one completely dies.

...it's my line in the sand haha

Oh please. Anyone can take a bunch of pics and put up the ones that suit his side of the argument.

Less than a week ago I pointed out to my wife in the car with me that all the people who were crossing the road right in front of me were all wearing masks, as were the guys trying to sell me kiddies bubbles or whatever else. I didn't imagine that. Your selective pictures don't prove squat.

Ja well.....

No surprise here at all.... we expected nothing less

Typical Rooinek ……..

"because I have driven past both of those townships several times in the last few weeks"

So you would know then what these pictures were showing us and if they were in fact true or not.... not so?

Are you saying right here now in front of everyone, that the specific barrier illustrated here in these pics is not present at this township that you drive past.... or how about the massive red paint mark on the barrier?

This concrete barrier in particular looks very unique, so much so, that not one single township that I have been past or through, has it...… so unless all townships that side have this specific barrier, I can only assume that it is unique to this township.... yes or no?  

Oh wait...… they are all selective……

Maybe Plum got them all to pose without masks...… even the ones looking away from the camera

LMFAO...… you are good Plum...…. really good

In fairness its still anecdotal and we can't be sure if their not selective though I'll give Plum the benefit of the doubt . The same would be true if Rooinek posted photo's of people wearing face masks.

Rooi, knows it's Zandspruit, if he's driven past it then he'd know they're from there. 

Hell, a quick Google Streetview would prove it.

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-26.0606862,27.9019094,3a,75y,112.02h,85.43t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1gtu8oebMoR0J3RftLw16A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1gtu8oebMoR0J3RftLw16A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D232.41302%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Indeed, you can see the barrier running the length of the street.

I think what he's saying is that I hung around there and took a bunch of pictures until I got the one's I needed. Imagine how long I had to wait at the traffic light in the first pic to get a shot where nobody was wearing a mask. Lol what a joker.

In reality, I just drove past and clicked the camera as many times as possible.

Very funny stuff

"Bit sad that you have to resort to exaggerations and lies to make your feeble little point but quite funny when someone who can verify the actual facts makes you look like a complete dick"

No exaggeration at all - proven

No lies at all - proven

"Oh and if it isn't one of those two townships then man up and say which one it is"

It's Zandspruit - proven

Plum just proved yet again how easy it is for posters to call you out on your own bullshit Rooinek, and make you look like the real dick we all know you to be...…

You just cannot be an honest bloke, no matter how hard you tried..... .and no matter how many times you come on here and try and convince everyone here how decent you are in the real world

Do they wear masks in Zandspruit…… duh.... of course they do..... and you might even get some pics to illustrate that...….. but you specifically accused Plum of "exaggeration and lies", which he has clearly and unequivocally proven to be bullshit.

He completely blew you out the water here...… very …. very easily