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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  Superb take on the new Cold War.

Superb take on the new Cold War.

Started by Mozart24 REPLIES756 VIEWS· 20 Mar 2022, 17:15
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2022, 17:15
#1
20 Mar 2022, 17:15#1

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has brought death, destruction and debate over historical analogies. Is this the summer of 1914, with great powers stumbling into a horrific global conflict? Or is it the Nazi-Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939? What about Moscow’s 1939-40 Winter War against Finland? Will Vladimir Putin’s gambit end like the Soviet Union’s 1979-89 misadventure in Afghanistan? 

Matt Pottinger has been thinking of another conflict. Mr. Putin’s attempted conquest, and his burgeoning partnership with China’s Xi Jinping, reminds Mr. Pottinger of the Korean War. “In 1950, Stalin and Mao and Kim Il Sung badly miscalculated how easy the invasion would be and miscalculated American resolve, much as we’re seeing today,” Mr. Pottinger, 48, who served in the Trump White House’s National Security Council, says this week. “The roles are now reversed, with Xi playing the role of Stalin and Putin playing the role of Mao sending his troops to the slaughter. It’s even conceivable that this war may end in a similar fashion, with some kind of a stalemate in a divided country.

The analogy extends to the free world. Although the Cold War began in 1945, “it really took several more years for public attitudes in the West to catch up to what strategists like Winston Churchill and George Kennan knew about the nature of the Soviet Union.” With the Korean conflict, “the Cold War crystallized in the public imagination in the West.” Today, it’s “really hard to avoid the conclusion that these developments reflect a new cold war that Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin have initiated against the West.”

Mr. Pottinger believes the new conflict’s “ideological underpinnings” formed as the old one was winding down. “The Chinese leadership was badly rattled by the events of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, the lopsided American-led victory over Saddam Hussein’s forces in the first Gulf War and then the collapse of the Soviet Union.” They came to regard the U.S. as their “primary adversary.”

In this view, Ukraine is the “hot opening salvo in a cold war pitting Washington and its allies against a fragile but increasingly powerful bloc of dictatorships.” The logic of the Cold War “will provide us with explanatory and predictive value. It’ll help us understand and anticipate the moves by Putin and Xi and the other dictatorships that play supporting roles in their global strategy, such as Iran,” he argues. “We would be remiss not to learn lessons from the original Cold War, not least because we won.”

In recent decades American policy makers tried and failed to convert Beijing into a responsible contributor to the U.S.-led international order. Today there is a bipartisan consensus that the Chinese Communist Party is the greatest external threat to American security, but much of Washington was slow to accept it. As President Trump’s senior director for Asia, then deputy national security adviser, Mr. Pottinger urged them along.

He contributed to the 2017 National Security Strategy, which called China a “revisionist” power and warned that “great power competition” had returned. H.R. McMaster, who served as White House national security adviser in 2017-18, called Mr. Pottinger “central to the biggest shift in U.S. foreign policy since the Cold War, which is the competitive approach to China.”

His understanding of the Chinese threat and the dangerous new global environment is more widely held now, though not everyone accepts the idea of a new cold war. A former Journal reporter in China fluent in Mandarin, Mr. Pottinger says reading Chinese government documents that aren’t translated into English has shaped his views.

“When Xi Jinping gives speeches—especially important ones and ones where he is laying out an aggressive case for Chinese actions in this de facto cold war that he’s waging—those speeches are kept secret, but they’re not kept secret forever,” he says. “They surface in Chinese-language-only party publications. More often than not, those speeches are ignored by Western analysts, news reporters and even intelligence agencies.” 

An example is a November 2021 address in which Mr. Xi said, in Mr. Pottinger’s paraphrase, “that the Korean War was an act of enormous strategic foresight by Comrade Mao Zedong, as he calls him in the speech. It’s a recurring theme in a lot of Xi’s speeches, the idea that China now needs to study the spirit of that war.”

Mr. Xi laid out what Mr. Pottinger describes as almost a case for pre-emptive war: “He says that Mao Zedong in that war had the strategic foresight to, quote, ‘start with one punch so that 100 punches could be avoided.’ He talked about how Mao had the determination and bravery to adopt an attitude of not hesitating to ruin the country”—that is, China—“internally in order to build it anew.” Mr. Pottinger puts this in contemporary terms: “The attitude of being willing to destroy institutions, companies, attitudes and even political norms is something that neither Xi nor the Communist Party that he leads should shy away from.”

The personal relationship between Messrs. Xi and Putin has become central to China’s conflict with the West. “It is an unnatural partnership in many ways, because it’s not deep and wide, society to society, economy to economy, nation-state to nation-state. But it is extremely meaningful from the standpoint of two men,” Mr. Pottinger says. “Those two men happen to be the dictators that make all of the important decisions in their respective systems. And these two guys have a mind meld that we’ve not seen between a Chinese and Russian leader since Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin met six months before the North Korean invasion of South Korea.”

Messrs. Xi and Putin met ahead of the Beijing Winter Olympics a few weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine, and Mr. Pottinger says “there’s little question” that both “understood that an invasion was in the offing.” On Feb. 4, Moscow and Beijing released a 5,000-word statement declaring their relationship had “no limits.” It’s important to take that claim seriously, Mr. Pottinger says: “What you really have are two revanchist, authoritarian dictatorships that have decided, like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, to go back to back and point their guns outward to say, ‘Look, we’re not going to worry about our long border dispute, which has been a recurring theme for centuries. We’re going to help each other expand our respective spheres of influence to undermine democracies.’ ”

They saw an opportunity in signals of weakness from President Biden: “When Biden came into power, one of the first things he did was end the negotiation over New Start”—the 2010 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty—“and gave Putin the five-year renewal that Putin was seeking. He eased off on restrictions on Nord Stream 2”—Russia’s gas pipeline to Europe—“and he also began to restrict lethal aid to Ukraine.”

At the same time, the administration began negotiations to revive the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, which President Trump left in 2018. “We’re not actually even negotiating directly, but using Russian and other diplomats as a go-between,” Mr. Pottinger says. “This sends a profound signal of weakness.” Israel and Arab states “see a Biden administration that’s more eager to cut deals with our common adversary than to engage meaningfully with longstanding partners.”

Does all that suggest Russia wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine if Mr. Trump had won in 2020? “We’ll never know,” Mr. Pottinger answers. Mr. Putin might have “wanted to see whether President Trump would unilaterally take action to undermine NATO and he didn’t want to interrupt that process while it was a possibility.” That said, “there was a genuine unpredictability about President Trump and what he might or might not do, and that may have, more frequently than people appreciate, caused Xi and Putin to delay some of their plans.”

Mr. Pottinger thinks Mr. Trump’s record isn’t viewed with enough nuance: “President Trump’s statecraft, as idiosyncratic as it was, was a lot more sophisticated than either the press or even American adversaries really understood.” Mr. Pottinger sums that approach up as a “close and respectful diplomacy at the top, but also his willingness to knee his counterparts in the groin.” In Russia’s case that included Mr. Trump’s opposition to Nord Stream 2, hard bargaining on New Start, supplying lethal aid to Ukraine, expulsion of Russian spies and diplomats, and sanctions. 

Mr. Pottinger argues that Russia’s aggression has discredited the idea that the U.S. can divert its attention from other regions while confronting China. “The war in Ukraine underscores why we cannot compartmentalize our cold war to a specific geography or even to a specific player. There’s no question that Beijing is the mother ship of authoritarianism in the world now,” he says. “But if we fail to see how these adversaries are linked with one another and how they are increasingly coordinated with one another, we run the risk of making big blunders.” 

America has a powerful counter in its alliances. The 30-nation North Atlantic Treaty Organization has shown impressive cohesion in the face of Russia’s onslaught in Ukraine. Asian-Pacific alliances are looser, but Mr. Pottinger talks up the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue involving Australia, India, Japan and the U.S. “India made the disappointing, and in my view a mistaken, decision not to hold Russia accountable for its invasion of a peaceful sovereign neighbor,” he says. “We shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves on what the Quad can ultimately achieve. But it is nonetheless a substantive group that gives Beijing quite a lot of heartburn.” The group is “talking about things like supply chains and building in resiliency and figuring out ways to counter Chinese disinformation.”

What about Taiwan? In light of Mr. Putin’s difficulties in Ukraine, “a logical and dispassionate analysis would suggest that Chinese war planners are having second and third thoughts,” Mr. Pottinger says. “But logic and dispassionate analysis are not the hallmarks of Xi Jinping. Xi is viewing the world in the reflection of fun-house mirrors at this point.”

He says unwinding Taiwan’s economic ties to the mainland is critical and that President Tsai Ing -wen “has made significant progress in really taking charge of the military services that she commands and getting them to focus on truly asymmetric capabilities, by which I mean ones that are not only quite lethal to China, but also quite affordable for Taiwan.” The Taiwanese “need to show China that the war doesn’t end at the beaches. It will continue in the ports, in the cities, in the countryside and in the mountains.”

The U.S., he says, also needs a show of strength and determination: “What we have to do is double our defense spending immediately. We’re still spending about half of what we spent as a percentage of GDP during the Reagan administration, and the Reagan administration wasn’t even the peak of our Cold War spending.” Can the U.S. afford a $1.5 trillion Pentagon budget? “Our defense expenditures are minor in comparison to our entitlement programs. Universal healthcare is an amazing thing, but it’s not going to save Europe and Taiwan or, in the end, our own national security and way of life.”

If this is a new cold war, what would victory look like? “It involves trying to manage the conflict so that it does not become a head-on confrontation between nuclear great powers. Winning involves permitting the weaknesses of the authoritarian powers to erode their advantages over time. Winning involves maintaining solidarity and common cause with the people of Russia and China even as we call out candidly the actions of the dictators who lead those two nations.”

Mr. Pottinger is fundamentally bullish on the West’s chances against Messrs. Putin and Xi. “We need to shed a sense of defeatism, and we need to have the courage of our convictions about what makes our system unique and powerful. That means doubling down on capitalism and democracy and freedom, but containing—I’ll use the C-word—China and Russia’s ability to exploit our freedoms and our markets in ways that are parasitic,” he says.

“The longer the dictators stay in power, the sharper the paradox between confidence and paranoia. And I think both of these men are getting less and less reliable information in their diets and are therefore prime to make strategic miscalculations,” he says. 

While Messrs. Putin and Xi may share an antipathy for the democratic West, their countries aren’t natural allies: “I think that the logic of national interest will eventually reassert itself over the interests of two dictators who drew up this pact. That’ll take time to play out, but I think in many respects, it’ll be only downhill from here between Moscow and Beijing.”

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2022, 11:17
#2
21 Mar 2022, 11:17#2

I think the above is a rather simplistic approach to the issue - same as was the case by Chamberlain in 1938.    Fact is that the involvement of Russia  in Ukraine is not based on any real expansionist policies of Russia - but has more to do with the protection of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, as well as the fact that agreements with the Russians on expansion of NATO to cover previous Soviet satellite countries have not been adhered to. 

The history of Ukraine is an example of the creation of an artificial country like Yugoslavia in 1918 - which ended up in disastrous civil wars in the 1990's.   The present Ukraine was created in 1953 by the Russian Communist Party to ensure  that ethnic Russians make up the majority of the Ukraine population.   That held true in 1991 when Ukraine became an independent country.   The 2014 uprising in Kjiv - supported by the USA and NATO - caused a civil war that has not ended, but was interrupted by an armistice agreed to by both parties.   The Crimea with its 85% Russian ethnic population and the Tartars with its 10%  component - with Ukrainians a 5% population figure - preferred to be part of Russia and not Ukraine.   The same applies to the Dombas region that actually was in the hands of Ethnic Russians after the Minsk agreement and was not governed by the Kjiv Government after 1915.

However, there were breaches of the Minsk agreement since 2015 on both sides - but more so by the Ukrainians than the Russians, which preceded  the Russian attack.

The above article tried to push this as part of a global narrative - which in reality it is not.   It is purely a local problem between Ukraine and Russia and it has  Russian and Ukraine ethnic populations pitted against each other.

The article ignore the position of the BRICS countries making up 42% of the world population.   Of those 5 countries 3  are democracies - India, Brazil and South Africa - while Russia is not a real dictatorship (in the last election in Russia opposition parties got 40% of the votes) and China is the only real one-party dictatorship involved,   The BRIC's  countries did not vote in the UN resolution because there were no real negotiations between the USA and Russia on the Ukraine issue in an effort to resolve the issue.   The BRIC's countries said clearly that the negotiations were defective and insist on a new set of negotiations.   

The new negotiations between Russia and Ukraine is led by Turkey - a NATO member with outside of the USA the biggest army in NATO.    So even NATO is divided and the fact is that most commentators try to paint the existing Ukraine issue into something which has real wider implications for internal political reasons, while it is in reality a local ethnic problem - which should have been resolved during negotiations long ago.   

       

   

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
21 Mar 2022, 14:34
#3
21 Mar 2022, 14:34#3
Exactly my view too… “If this is a new cold war, what would victory look like? “It involves trying to manage the conflict so that it does not become a head-on confrontation between nuclear great powers. Winning involves permitting the weaknesses of the authoritarian powers to erode their advantages over time. Winning involves maintaining solidarity and common cause with the people of Russia and China even as we call out candidly the actions of the dictators who lead those two nations.”
SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
21 Mar 2022, 17:30
#4
21 Mar 2022, 17:30#4

Dumb Mike is the same as the Trumpanzee Republicans who believe that Ukraine is still part of Russia.
Apparently the party is split on the issue. The sensible and morally superior ones support Ukraine, with the simpletons supporting Putin.

I saw a speech by Putin recently, and he was like Trump with disinformation, and using nationalism to appeal to "us" vs them. 

He even uses God in his speeches to appeal to the simpletons than have personalities that are more authoritarian in nature. It turns people who are more authoritarian in nature against those that are more Democratic in nature, and vice versa.  

A communist that is a Christian? Sure the economy has "some" capitalism, but it is still a one party state. The opposition gets poisoned, put in jail or murdered. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2022, 14:53
#5
22 Mar 2022, 14:53#5

SB

When brains were dished but you were last in the que and got scraps.  Where did you ever find that issue about me beleiving Ukraine is still part of Russia.

I tried to explain that Ukraine after the Communist Dictatorship for political reasons tried  to  make sure that the ethnic Ukrainians be i a minority in Ukraine in 1953.     The Communists did not want a Ukraine majority in that country so they drew the borders of Ukraine and included areas like Crimea - with a 95% Russian and Tartar population in Ukraine.   The same applies to large areas in Eastern Ukraine.   

So did you know that in the areas under the Ukraine Government the majority population spoke Russian?    That the Russian component of the population ran Ukraine until 2014 when a rebellion in Kjif caused a civil war that was supposed to stop but never really did.   

The latest antic was that the Ukraine Government banned all opposition political parties and they are now effectively a dictatorship.   

Anyway the BRICS countries have now organized real negotiations to resolve the issues in Ukraine with Turkey handling the negotiations.    The only thing the present Biden Regime is capable of and experts in is lying.                


   

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
22 Mar 2022, 14:59
#6
22 Mar 2022, 14:59#6

The "Kjif" rebellion?

I've asked this question before . . . what subject does ou Maaik know the least about? Rugby? Geography? History? Tennis? Current Affairs?

It's a tough one . . . his all-round ignorance on so many subjects is just staggering.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Mar 2022, 16:29
#7
22 Mar 2022, 16:29#7

Rudehole explaining to everyone how stupid Maaik is....AGAIN!

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
22 Mar 2022, 16:47
#8
22 Mar 2022, 16:47#8

"Lekker kief rebellion"...

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
22 Mar 2022, 17:07
#9
22 Mar 2022, 17:07#9

Putin fears Ukraine continuing to develop as a Democracy because it has been causing Russian opposition against him to grow.

He also fears Ukraine Gas and Oil production competing with Russia, given that almost 50% of Russian GDP is from oil and gas (typical for authoritarian countries that cant develop secondary and tertiary industry). 



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2022, 18:43
#10
22 Mar 2022, 18:43#10

 Democracy where the minority wants to rule over the majority and now effectively a one-party state like Communist China and the USA hope to become under Biden?   What is Democracy anyway - not the farce that the fake media made of it.   

Do you think there is an open license that any inhabitant of Ukraine can be attacked purely because his language is Russian and not the Ukraine dialect?    Is the leader of the Opposition to be arrested for objecting in Parliament to the fact that the Ukrainians wanted to ban teaching of Russian in schools and is arrested for that reason and after more than a month held without trial.   

There are a regiment in the Ukraine army with the Swastika their emblem.   There ma in function is to attack areas where Russian speakers are living like happened with the encouragement of the media.

Do you even know what Democracy is?  Do you understand  that there is no real democracy in Ukraine.   The fact is the ignorance of the simpletons is clear.   Ukraine  had an election in 2014 and the majority Russian speakers won the election.   That cause serious unrest in Kiev - and the elected President left the country. The new interim Government was unacceptable to the Russians living in Eastern and southern Ukraine and a civil war ensues.   The Ukraine lost control of the Donbas region and Russia occupied the Crimea.   That was supposed to be settled after a ceasefire was arranged in 2015 at Minsk.   

There were no democratic elections covering the whole area of Ukraine since 2015.   There were no elections held in Eastern and Southern Ukraine occupied by Russian speaking rebels.   

In the meantime the Biden administration is paying for the development of bio-weapons in laboratories in Ukraine - and that is ignored by the media you base all you shit on.        

I do not trust the fake media - they have lied so much in recent years and they have useful willing idiots like you and that imbecile Rooinek to carry forward their lies.  Ukraine is not a unitary state - it is an abortion like Yugoslavia was - and you are too stupid to realize what really is going on.

       

       

     

               

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Mar 2022, 00:38
#11
23 Mar 2022, 00:38#11

You don’t destroy a country in order to protect it. This isn’t a globalist conspiracy, real people are dying and now the embarrassing under performance of the Russian military has set the table for even more destruction to erase that image.

But it won’t. NATO clearly understands they can ramp up their weapons using their massive economy and the Russians will pose a dubious conventional threat. 

It’s looking more and more like WW2 was German weakness, not Russian invincibility.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Mar 2022, 11:39
#12
23 Mar 2022, 11:39#12

Mozart 

On what are you basing your "under-performance story?   Although there are objectives the US media has apparently defined but those areas are not under constant attack by the land army at all,   The Russian army has confined  their objectives and has not entered territory where the majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainians.   According to maps provided by the same media - the Russian Army has confined their attacks to areas with a majority Russian population and occupied most of those areas.   There is fighting in Kharkov and Mariupol - the first was a Russian city before  Ukraine became part of Russia under Catherine the Great - and until 1953 was not part of Ukraine at all.  Mariupol was  never part of Ukraine until 1953.   The area was under control of he khanate of Crimea and when that khanate fell to Russia in the 18th century, the whole area became part of Russia and was NEVER part of Ukraine.            

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
23 Mar 2022, 12:03
#13
23 Mar 2022, 12:03#13

If South Africa split into 2 countries, they are legally 2 different countries accepted by the international community as such. 

If you go back in history far enough, all countries have been annexed and conquered at some point in their history. The Vikings conquered the UK and much of Europe around 1000 years ago, does that mean that the UK is still legally part of their empire? No...

The US used to be a colony of the UK, does that mean that the US is actually part of the UK.... No. 
Ukraine is a free independent country, and the piece of shit Putin is just Hitler 2.0. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
23 Mar 2022, 14:01
#14
23 Mar 2022, 14:01#14
a valid point for once, FishNuts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Mar 2022, 20:43
#15
23 Mar 2022, 20:43#15

Yes Tokkie’s misapplication of History is legendary. Here’s a more relevant lesson:


Hitler wanted to use the Sudeten Germans to create trouble in Czechoslovakia and, as he had in the Rhineland and Austria, use this as a pretence for invading and restoring order .

How these guys can support the destruction of a country is mind boggling. But of course, it’s not happening to them.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
24 Mar 2022, 01:46
#16
24 Mar 2022, 01:46#16
clevermike

Hall Of Fame

45487 posts

Mar 23, 2022, 11:39

   The Russian army has confined  their objectives and has not entered territory where the majority of the population is ethnic Ukrainian.

--- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Russia is only destroying and killing in areas where Russians are the ethnic majority? 
How can someone be so delusional...

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
24 Mar 2022, 07:27
#17
24 Mar 2022, 07:27#17

"How can someone be so delusional..."

Ou Maaik always finds a way. Just when you think he couldn't possibly be any more ignorant, brainwashed or biased, he surprises you yet again.

In ou Maaik's world, the Russian invaders are probably doing  interviews with the locals to determine their ethnicity before entering their towns or cities . . . ."nyet, these ones say they are Ukrainian, we do not enter here, move on to next city!"

LMAO!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Mar 2022, 09:26
#18
24 Mar 2022, 09:26#18

So why is the main fighting centered around three cities that has before 1953 never been part of Ukraine?  Because the populations of those cities are in the main Russian Speakers and only part of Ukraine because the Russian Communist Party did not want to have a Federal Republic with a  majority being Ukrainians.   

Do you know ANYTHING about Ukraine other than propaganda you got without checking anything to see whether the propaganda is real.    A brain that is slow compared to idiots is all you have and then you show your simplistic idiocy on site.     

ST
Stavanger1Pro4,532 posts
24 Mar 2022, 22:35
#19
24 Mar 2022, 22:35#19

Do you know ANYTHING about Ukraine other than propaganda you got without checking anything to see whether the propaganda is real.

Do you now anything about anything?

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
24 Mar 2022, 23:44
#20
24 Mar 2022, 23:44#20
Some of the people in the West are actually not Westerners.  Like the capitol rioters. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Mar 2022, 06:12
#21
25 Mar 2022, 06:12#21

Mozart

I am not going back hundreds of years in history.   I am looking at what happened  in Yugoslavia created as an artificial "country" in 1918 by the allies.   What was the result of that situation.   Under Tito  authoritarian control kept the situation under control and then the country disintegrated with civil wars in the 1990's  being the result.

After the Ukrainians sided with the Germans in WW2 the Russian Communist Party decided to change the Ukraine borders to ensure that the "Soviet Republic of Ukraine" would have a majority Russian population.   In other words like the Allies did in 1918 with the establishment of Yugoslavia for political gain the Communists established an artificial "Soviet Republic" in 1953.

It worked out well for them while the Communist Party ruled the USSR - but when that dictatorship collapsed the Soviet Union collapsed as well and a number of independent Countries came into being and one of those were Urkaine.   After 1991 the Russian component of the population of Ukraine kept a Russian ethnic Government in control.

However such was the situation in 2014 when in March that year an election was held  in Ukraine - again won by the Russian component of the population  there were an uprising six months later and the newly-elected Government collapsed.  The interim Government was formed - but before democratic elections could be held - a civil war broke out between Russian speakers and Ukrainian speakers and Ukraine became a divided country.    The civil war did not cover the Crimea with its 5% ethnic Ukrainian population and that part of the country after an election held resulted in the Crimea reverting to Russian control.   The other largely pro-Russian part of Ukraine - the Donbas area - was never under Ukraine Government control since 2014.   

The civil war did not end - a ceasefire was agreed to in Minsk in 2015 - but that was not solving the ethnicity problems and events in the remaining Ukraine -controlled area caused major strains within the area under their control.   Since 2015 there were no efforts made to find a solution to the issue.   The Biden-Administration did everything in their power to worsen the situation.   They encouraged the ethnic Ukrainians to endeavor to regain control of the Ukraine based on the 1953 borders and that is the basic reason for the present situation.   

                                     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Mar 2022, 06:15
#22
25 Mar 2022, 06:15#22

Some of the idiots on site are not westerners because they have been influenced by the fake media and by the Democratic Party striving to be come a dictatorship in the USA, which would result in collapse of Democracy worldwide.      

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Mar 2022, 06:15
#23
25 Mar 2022, 06:15#23

Some of the idiots on site are not westerners because they have been influenced by the fake media and by the Democratic Party striving to be come a dictatorship in the USA, which would result in collapse of Democracy worldwide.      

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,202 posts
25 Mar 2022, 13:38
#24
25 Mar 2022, 13:38#24

Dumb Mike is talking about Democracy, yet he supports Putin's invasion of a free independent country. 

Trump rallied up the far-right working class against Democratic institutions in society.
Just like Hitler before him. Destroy faith in all systems that oppose him, and the only way to fix everything is an authoritarian approach -  with Trump. He alone can fix it. 

The same Trump that tried to cheat in a Democratic election to remain in control, despite losing the election. 

Trump is the West's Putin. He has the same narcist approach. Neither are fit to lead a country. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Mar 2022, 14:15
#25
25 Mar 2022, 14:15#25

SB

What did I say to support the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  I opposed that invasion - but pointed out the background while the matter should have been settled by negotiation and then an invasion would not have happened.    I still condemn the invasion - but realize the background that led to it. 

The fact is that anybody opposed to the leftwing idiots ruining the USA is pro-Putin and Russian.    This has been the story of he Democrats for six years and was based entirely on lies concocted by themselves.

There was no need to rally up the far right working class.   Since 1988 the working class standard of living declined by 25%.  Every President promised to look after the interests of the working class and every president - whether Democratic or Republican - did the exact opposite  to what they promised.  By 2016 the working class had enough of it  and voted against Clinton.   

Fact is that the fake media made out that Trump was a far-right president -  he was in fact a moderate based on legislation he  supported,    So what we have here is the ravings of a leftwing lunatic brainwashed by  the fake media.   Give me just one example where the Supreme Court ruled against undermining of the Constitution by Trump - there were ample cases where they rule against Biden in just one year.   So who is endangering the democratic constitution of the USA - no t Trump, but the Biden Mafia.           

— END OF THREAD —

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