The oil and gas demons in Europe

@AJH

If we keep emitting carbon in the atmosphere at the same rate or an increased rate as we are doing now, the consequences for the planet at large will get worse and worse. Reducing the rate reduces the consequences, no one expects any country to stop using fossil fuels completely in the short to mid term.

Al Gore is not a climate scientist or an expert. He's a politician who's over exaggerated the effects of climate change and also the speed at which its occurring and he probably has made money from doing it so have climate change deniers have made money from there claims as well. But Al Gore being wrong doesn't change what climate scientists and actual experts in the field of climate change say and what the say is based on historical and observable evidence.

The world is trying to get China and India to change. It doesn't mean it has to cut off trade with those countries to do so. But it helps if the rest of the world is pullings it weight on this issue. The rest of the world can't just shrug its shoulders and say "ah China and India are going to continue to emit CO2, we might as well keep going". No that would just make it worse. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Burying our hand in the sand and believing anything that contradicts the evidence must be the truth, is done purely out of convenience for ourselves, so we don't have to do anything or admit to our culpability in creating a problem which will see future generations look back at our generation with utter contempt for leaving them a world with a much harsher environment to live in ,when we had the evidence and capacity to change it but just lacked the will.

Wonder what the situation really indicate and  maybe we get,   The worst air pollution scenario an be related  to CO2 problems are encountered in China (1,427 billion) and India (1,374 billion) that is about 36,2%  of the total world population confined to about  2.52%  of the total land area of the world.   

Vast areas of the land mass of the world is agriculturally non-productive - eg covered by snow permanently or for most of the year as well as  desert areas.   But the 36,2% must eat and  the 2,52% is not enough land to provide the food. so lets accept that those two countries have destroyed virtually fully the natural forest areas where leaves consume CO2 and release oxygen into the air,

But that is not enough and food must be imported  on a massive scale   In the meantime most arable agricultural land  in the more advanced countries is already used for food production and what happens next. since food needs keep growing even on a daily basis.  So where to now?  

From a food production point of view what other land areas available for increase in food production are the rain forest areas in the tropics.   That is where massive destruction of natural forests take place,  For that purpose massive fires are used to remove vegetation.   It is not surprising that the air pollution in China and India - situated near to where vast forests used to be - have massive pollution problems.   

Maybe more attention should be paid to the real problem  facing mankind  and not only concentrate how oil and gas usage cause the main problems causing global warming.   Fact is that 90% of the problem does not receive enough attention - with only emphasis on the other 10%.    

That is what makes people sceptic about the scientists and politicians who use it to scare the hell out of people to get votes and oodles of money to continue their research, work.                                  

"yet you don't believe reducing man made carbon emissions is a solution or its a BS solution. Are you not seeing a flaw in your logic?"

No, I say it's a BS for America to use imported coal in their power plants instead of their own. I say Elton John's zero carbon footprint  private jet is BS. 

I'm also saying that it won't matter if the first world reduces CO2 emissions, but China and the 3rd world carry on like there's no tomorrow. 

I am yet to see a study looking at direct emissions from human waste and landfill sites. The solutions offered is way to simplistic to be effective. 

Draad

They use simplistic arguments that ultimately will not solve the problem.  They attack leaders like in Brazil for allowing fires in the Amazon area without realizing that it is virtually impossible for anybody to stop the rot in those cases,   Just see what happened in the holier than though Australia and the impact of people in the starting of fires, 

They forget about the issue of destruction of rain forests to get more areas for agricultural purposes.  Instead of stringent measures to stop that rot and the refusal of Governments to allow any farming on new areas and assist them to stop the rot, the carnage will continue.

Fact is the Chinese and Indian problems are ignored by scientists and instead of dealing with the problems in those  two countries they want to rather destroy the western economies and blame the fiasco entirely on the west, where weak governments are effectively forced  to introduce measures they want and provide the necessary funding to continue their campaigns.

If they start to deal with the real food problems, where unhealthy eating habits due to food deficiency, like even eating snakes - are dealt with there will be new coronavirus-like problems keep starting and ultimately something like what happened with the Black death in Europe in the 1300 hundreds, will emerge and wipe out 50% of the excess population in the world.   It is only  a matter of time before that happens.

The fact is that there are more important and more difficult problems for the scientists to be dealt with, but the solutions are much more complex and not as easily dealt with than carbon emissions.   `                            

Duplication

@DbDraad

The solution is lowering CO2 emissions across the world. I'm sure if America was using its own coal over imports they would lower CO2 emissions by not having to expend as much fuel in the import process but a far better way of lowering CO2 emissions would be using less coal in the first place and using/developing greener energy sources. Maybe Elton Johns zero carbon plane is BS. I don't know but everyone has a part to play in the solution.

The first world is in general reducing carbon emissions, though it could still do more. I'm sure if you asked scientists, which would be a better scenario of the environment long term, the first world only reducing CO2 emissions or neither the first world or third world reducing emissions, they probably tell you the first scenario while still bad is better than the second. But again ones inaction does not excuse another .

Also if the worlds current 2nd biggest CO2 emitter does nothing, the worlds third biggest can just say, why should we bother if the 2nd biggest isn't doing anything. All countries have to pull their weight. China most of all. The world is pressuring them but must pressure them harder to step up to the challenge. But of course many in China are also skeptical of global warming, believing its a western plot design to stop the rise of their country. They also use the defense that looking at CO2 emissions per person in each country, China is far from the worst CO2 emitter. But its all excuses on there part. China's inaction does not justify other countries inaction.

The recording of global emissions include all sources both  man made and natural. That includes human waste and landfills.

Stav

I am afraid you have not dealt with my comments on the issue of pollution caused by the over-population  while keep maintaining  emphasis of what the west can do and not what the East should do, as well as ignoring the problems directly linked to China and India,   Pressure from the weak-wristed  West is treated by those two countries as a joke in bad taste.  

They take note and  react tp what Trump said - eg refraining from sending  their army into Hong King tp stem the unrest there - but not what the EU said must happen.  If  Trump and Bolsonaro insist on action being taken on issues - China and India will react positively - when the EI say anything they will carry on regardless. 

We need stronger nations to take action - but the weak leadership in the EU countries they refine as "talk is cheap - money buys the Whiskey".  The  governments in the EU counties are weak and the EU is just another talking shop.         

@clevermike

When you say "without realizing that it is virtually impossible for anybody to stop the rot in those cases" I'm not sure what you mean by rot?

The impact of people starting fires during the recent Australian wildfires was vastly vastly vastly overstated by climate change deniers.

"They forget about the issue of destruction of rain forests to get more areas for agricultural purposes.  Instead of stringent measures to stop that rot and the refusal of Governments to allow any farming on new areas and assist them to stop the rot, the carnage will continue."

No they do not forget about the destruction of rain forests. Climate scientists already factor in C02 emissions from deforestation and landmass usages changes. Its the 2nd biggest source of man made carbon emissions. However that only contributes to 9% of the total global emissions made by man the remaining 91% comes from fossil fuels. Your free to look that up.

"Fact is the Chinese and Indian problems are ignored by scientists and instead of dealing with the problems in those  two countries they want to rather destroy the western economies and blame the fiasco entirely on the west, where weak governments are effectively forced  to introduce measures they want and provide the necessary funding to continue their campaigns."

As I already said, people need to stop making stuff up or believing in what they want to believe because it suits their biases. China and India is not ignored by scientists. We know they are the 1st and 3rd biggest emitters of carbon emissions. Everyone who accepts the evidence that wants and needs them to lower their emissions. Scientist are not blaming the west or wanting to destroy the west economy, to suggest they do is just passing the buck. The west does have to do its fair part as well.

"If they start to deal with the real food problems, where unhealthy eating habits due to food deficiency, like even eating snakes - are dealt with there will be new coronavirus-like problems keep starting and ultimately something like what happened with the Black death in Europe in the 1300 hundreds, will emerge and wipe out 50% of the excess population in the world.   It is only  a matter of time before that happens.