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FORUM / MIKES GRIPES /  This is what could push South Africa to a total blackout – and what would happen next

This is what could push South Africa to a total blackout – and what would happen next

Started by bobbok...33 REPLIES11,971 VIEWS· 02 Mar 2023, 22:30
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
02 Mar 2023, 22:30
#1
02 Mar 2023, 22:30#1

President Cyril Ramaphosa and former Eskom chief executive officer Andre de Ruyter have warned that political parties and civil action groups risk collapsing South Africa’s grid if they get their way through court action.

Responding to a court application brought by 19 litigants, including the United Democratic Movement (UDM), Mmusi Maimane’s Build One SA and trade union NUMSA, among others, De Ruyter and Ramaphosa said that what is being asked for by the parties is impossible.

The court action was launched in January 2023 following energy regulator Nersa granting Eskom an 18.65% hike in tariffs for the year.

The collective is seeking an order from South Africa’s apex court blocking the increase, having Eskom publish a detailed recovery plan, as well as ending load shedding for critical facilities and infrastructure in the country. This includes hospitals, police stations, schools and small businesses.

However, in his response to the application, De Ruyter says this is simply not possible.

“In most cases, hospitals and clinics, schools, police stations, small businesses,electronic communications networks and telecoms infrastructure are embedded in distribution networks containing other residential and non-residential loads.

“Due to their embeddedness, these institutions cannot be excluded from load shedding without also excluding the other customers who share those distribution lines,” he said.

In other words, he said, to continue to supply an embedded customer with electricity thus requires continuing to supply all theother upstream customers on the distribution line as well.

“Given the very large number of institutions and facilities the applicants seek to protect from load shedding and the fact that most are embedded in distribution networks spread throughout the country, were they to be excluded from load shedding, there would be very little load left to shed to reduce demand on the grid,” he said.

Repeating the information provided to the public with every load shedding alert, De Ruyter said that rolling blackouts are implemented as a last resort to protect the grid from total collapse.

He argued that if the litigants got their way and Eskom was forced to keep the power on for everyone they desired, the risk of a grid collapse and total blackout would increase significantly.

“How long such a blackout would last is impossible to predict with any certainty. However, for the reasons explained by Eskom’s General Manager of Transmission System Operator Ms Isabel Fick, Eskom estimates that it could take up to several weeks to restore the electricity grid, that length of time being highly dependent on thestate of the grid when the black-out occurs,” he said.

“Without wishing to sound alarmist, the consequences of such a blackout would be catastrophic.”

De Ruyter said some of the likely impacts are identifiable from international experiences of extended blackouts.

They include:

  • The loss or interruption of water supply and sewerage treatment;
  • The shut down of telephone and internet services;
  • Rationing and shortages of liquid fuel (petrol and diesel) with knock-on impacts on transport, industry and institutions that depend on liquid fuel to run back-up generators (including hospitals, laboratories, morgues);
  • Digital platforms, including payment platforms and automatic teller machines not running with the consequence ofa shortage of hard currency;
  • Chaos on the roads, as traffic lights go down;
  • Shops and residents will struggle to keep produce fresh, and food supplies will be impacted;
  • A high risk of looting, vandalism and public unrest.

“Self-evidently, a blackout is a risk that South Africa cannot afford to take,” he said. “The relief (from the litigants) defeats the very purpose of load shedding: it requires maintaining much the same level of demand on the grid in circumstances where there is an insufficient supply to sustain that demand. This presents a manifest risk of grid collapse or blackout.”

Aside from the risk of a total blackout, De Ruyter said that granting all the exemptions desired by the litigants would at best require significantly higher stages of load shedding for everyone else.

“Maintaining supply to excluded customers where load shedding is being implemented – and by implication, when all other measures have been exhausted – will require more severe load shedding elsewhere on the grid.”

De Ruyter’s warnings about grid collapsed were echoed by Ramaphosa, who was responding to a separate Constitutional Court application on load shedding.

The president said that the whole country stands to “suffer more harm” if the courts ordered the government and Eskom to provide relief to businesses and facilities mentioned.

“There is serious risk of the electricity grid collapsing to a state of a total shutdown if load-shedding is not implemented in the manner in which it is currently being implemented, ie. In which all sectors of society are switched off from time to time,” he said.
https://businesstech.co.za/news/energy/668409/this-is-what-could-push-south-africa-to-a-total-blackout-and-what-would-happen-next/

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
02 Mar 2023, 22:50
#2
02 Mar 2023, 22:50#2
South Africa faces ‘civil war’ conditions

South Africa is on the verge of “collapse” amid rolling blackouts and warnings a total power grid failure could lead to mass rioting on the scale of a “civil war”.

Western embassies including the United States and Australia have advised their citizens in the country to stock up on “several days’ worth” of food and water and be on high alert during extended blackouts sweeping the country. New Zealand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade advises “exercise extreme caution” due to strikes and demonstrations. “There have been outbreaks of violence primarily directed toward refugees and other African migrants throughout South Africa. Violence could occur again at short notice and bystanders could be caught up.”

South Africa’s President Cyril Ramaphosa declared a national “state of disaster” on February 9 in response to the record electricity shortage, which has seen state-owned power company Eskom institute rolling blackouts – dubbed “load shedding” – lasting up to 12 hours in some cases.

“Rolling blackouts (load shedding) are occurring throughout South Africa which are affecting private residences, businesses, municipal lighting, traffic lights and hotels,” Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said earlier this month.

“Blackouts can also affect water availability, internet connectivity, mobile phone network coverage, fuel availability, residential security features and food supply.”

DFAT warned power outages can increase crime. “For example, traffic jams due to power outages provide opportunities for smash-and-grab crime,” it said.

“Residences can be targeted when lights are out and security systems are not functioning. Ongoing conditions have led to increased protests and demonstrations, and in some cases, civil unrest, throughout the country.”

The US Embassy this month advised citizens to “maintain 72 hours’ worth of supplies at home by stockpiling non-perishable food, three litres of drinking water per person per day, and medicines and first aid supplies”.

It comes after the US government last month warned its stakeholders in South Africa to prepare for a total collapse of the power grid, tech publication MyBroadband reported.

The US Overseas Security Advisory Council convened a meeting with representatives from several large US-based corporations with operations in South Africa, as well as a number of local companies, to discuss business security concerns amid the energy crisis.

At the meeting, a recording of which was viewed by MyBroadband, a US government official said while a total power grid failure was unlikely, it was “something we need to start thinking about”.

They said one of the biggest dangers was the amount of time required to bring the system back online from a total collapse.

“Eskom estimates, in the best case scenario, it would take six to 14 days to restart the power grid,” the official said. “There are a few feeder lines from other countries, but not enough to help with a black start situation.”

The official warned of mass looting and civil unrest if the grid collapsed, quoting an unnamed individual as saying: “What’s left after a blackout would be what was left after a civil war.”

In a viral Twitter thread this week, a neighbourhood watch volunteer with civil rights group AfriForum argued South Africa “has collapsed”.

“We’re seeing an increase in co-ordinated attacks on water, power and comms infrastructure,” he wrote.


“Looting is no longer just a daily thing but is also now becoming more structured with guerrilla planning involved. Our roads no longer exist. Anything that is state-run is crumbling. police, fire and hospital resources for the state don’t exist and are also slowly disintegrating.”

He added the cost of living was “insane”, with medical aid “a luxury that most cannot afford” while food prices were “going through the roof”.

“Our murder rate is higher than the death rate in Ukraine’s current conflict,” he wrote.

“Higher than an active war zone. Hundreds of rapes a day, thousands of kidnappings every month, 90 hijackings a day. Farmers being murdered like flies in the most brutal ways imaginable.”

Eskom has repeatedly explained load shedding is a last-resort measure required to prevent a total collapse of the power grid.

Over the weekend, The Sunday Times reported key industries across South Africa had begun preparing for a total grid collapse, installing backup power to ensure critical services such as telecommunications and food retail could remain operational.

Cape Town mayor Geordin Hill-Lewis told France24 earlier this month the rolling blackouts were putting “huge pressure on all of our basic infrastructure”.

“It’s making it easier to steal cables when the power’s off … financially as well there’s a big impact, we’ve got to buy hundreds of generators and millions of litres of diesel to run those generators, so it’s very severe the impact,” he said.

Ongama Mtimka, a lecturer at Nelson Mandela University, told Al Jazeera the “situation is very dire”. “South Africa is the most industrialised country [on] the continent and the cities in some of the poorest provinces attract a lot of jobs,” he said.

He said the continued load shedding served as a “battering ram against the sustainable economies of these cities”. “It’s been for such a long time, and the problem seems intractable,” he said.

South Africa currently has an inflation rate of 6.9 per cent and 32.9 per cent unemployment, according to Stats SA.

Adding to its financial woes, the currency has plummeted close to levels last seen during the height of the pandemic in 2020 after the country was “grey-listed” by a global anti-money laundering body.

Ongama Mtimka, a lecturer at Nelson Mandela University, told Al Jazeera the “situation is very dire”. “South Africa is the most industrialised country [on] the continent and the cities in some of the poorest provinces attract a lot of jobs,” he said.

He said the continued load shedding served as a “battering ram against the sustainable economies of these cities”. “It’s been for such a long time, and the problem seems intractable,” he said.

South Africa currently has an inflation rate of 6.9 per cent and 32.9 per cent unemployment, according to Stats SA.

Adding to its financial woes, the currency has plummeted close to levels last seen during the height of the pandemic in 2020 after the country was “grey-listed” by a global anti-money laundering body.

The Financial Action Task Force’s greylisting indicates to financial institutions that a country is not fully compliant with anti-money laundering and terrorist financing standards.





Amid the swirling energy crisis, the outgoing chief executive of Eskom – who survived a suspected cyanide poisoning attempt in December – last week gave a bombshell interview detailing the scale of the corruption plaguing the public utility.

André de Ruyter fell ill after drinking a cup of coffee suspected to have been laced with cyanide at his Johannesburg office on December 13, a day after tendering his resignation in the face of political pressure.

“De Ruyter became weak, dizzy and confused, shaking uncontrollably and vomiting copiously,” energy publication EE Business Intelligence first reported.

“He subsequently collapsed, unable to walk. He was rushed to his doctor’s rooms by his security detail, where his condition was diagnosed as cyanide poisoning, and treated accordingly.

“Tests taken subsequently confirmed massively elevated levels of cyanide in his body.”

De Ruyter took the position in January 2020, embarking on a major crackdown on corruption and organised criminal behaviour, including sabotage at Eskom power plants.

His last day was due to be March 31, but he stepped down with immediate effect on February 22 after alleging that an unnamed senior MP in the ruling ANC party was involved in systemic corruption at Eskom.

The ANC has since hit back at de Ruyter’s comments as “completely unacceptable” and threatened legal action if he could not substantiate his “baseless” claims.

In the interview with News24, de Ruyter said there was “a long list” of people who might want him dead.

“When you start turning the spigots closed then people will get upset,” he said.

He said his “rough estimate” was that somewhere in the region of 1 billion rand ($81 million) was stolen at Eskom every month.

“We’ve made some inroads, we’ve definitely started closing the taps, and that doesn’t make you any friends,” he said.

“It’s difficult to speculate on who might have wanted to make an attempt on my life, but the people with motive, clearly there’s a pretty long list.”

He described the corruption at the public utility as like a cancer that had “grown throughout the entire body of the organisation”.

In the northeastern province of Mpumalanga, where the majority of Eskom’s coal-fired power stations are located, de Ruyter said there were at least four highly sophisticated, “mafia” style organised crime cartels operating within the company.

“They have a hit squad [of] between 60 and 70 highly trained, well-armed people, and people get assassinated in Mpumalanga,” he said. “Every week there’s pretty much an assassination. It’s deeply entrenched and it is highly organised.”

The outgoing CEO detailed how the company faced a “systemic” problem with sabotage.

“Understand that there are many hangers on,” de Ruyter said.




The ANC has since hit back at de Ruyter’s comments as “completely unacceptable” and threatened legal action if he could not substantiate his “baseless” claims.

In the interview with News24, de Ruyter said there was “a long list” of people who might want him dead.

“When you start turning the spigots closed then people will get upset,” he said.

He said his “rough estimate” was that somewhere in the region of 1 billion rand ($81 million) was stolen at Eskom every month.

“We’ve made some inroads, we’ve definitely started closing the taps, and that doesn’t make you any friends,” he said.

“It’s difficult to speculate on who might have wanted to make an attempt on my life, but the people with motive, clearly there’s a pretty long list.”

He described the corruption at the public utility as like a cancer that had “grown throughout the entire body of the organisation”.

In the northeastern province of Mpumalanga, where the majority of Eskom’s coal-fired power stations are located, de Ruyter said there were at least four highly sophisticated, “mafia” style organised crime cartels operating within the company.






hey have a hit squad [of] between 60 and 70 highly trained, well-armed people, and people get assassinated in Mpumalanga,” he said. “Every week there’s pretty much an assassination. It’s deeply entrenched and it is highly organised.”

The outgoing CEO detailed how the company faced a “systemic” problem with sabotage.

“Understand that there are many hangers on,” de Ruyter said.

“So if there is a contractor who gets paid a pittance to do cleaning or whatever the case may be, to pay someone like that 5000 rand [$400] to walk past a gearbox with a screwdriver and just with a sharp jab knock out the sight glass where you can check the oil level, the gearbox oil then drains and the gearbox fails, and somebody who’s got a maintenance contract is then called out.”

He added: “But the individual who committed the act of sabotage is not the kingpin. That’s just one of the runners. And that is where I think we have a systemic problem.”

He warned the company “can’t post a policeman over every employee’s shoulder to watch what they’re doing”, but said Eskom had implemented high-definition, artificial intelligence-powered cameras to recognise certain behaviours.


He warned the company “can’t post a policeman over every employee’s shoulder to watch what they’re doing”, but said Eskom had implemented high-definition, artificial intelligence-powered cameras to recognise certain behaviours.

“If somebody’s loitering in a certain area where he shouldn’t be, or if he’s smoking or whatever … then an alarm goes off,” de Ruyter said.

“And what we found is whenever these cameras break down there’s a spate of incidents. So these things are very well organised, very well co-ordinated.”

Speaking to news channel SABC over the weekend, energy expert Chris Yelland said South Africa was “facing a very, very uncertain year ahead”.

“In fact what we are doing at the moment is shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic,” he said.

“We’re seeing an unprecedented change within Eskom as an organisation, and this augurs a period of uncertainty and danger for South Africa.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/south-africa-faces-civil-war-conditions-due-to-possibility-of-power-grid-collapse/5TFXMJFSHJHAZNRUXIVHBHRJXA/

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2023, 03:14
#4
03 Mar 2023, 03:14#4
Yes, Blo…and try calling the police about cable theft. They’ll turn up a week later, if at all. In our area we have to patrol ourselves. As i speak, our power has been out for going on 4 days now. What a weird thing. One would have thought that after almost 3 decades in charge, Black Panther would be president and we’d be living in Wakanda.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2023, 03:33
#5
03 Mar 2023, 03:33#5
Oh, also, the average annual salary at Eskom is R750k/y. In a place like SA with a relatively low cost of living, that’s a ridiculous and unsustainable amount. Oh, and they fighting for more by the way. Unions hold the country hostage and their scum workers sabotage power stations when they don’t get more and more money. And it’s made possible by useless ANC who know they can’t create jobs and will lose power if they allow these institutions to be privatised. So they hang on to them, like damn parasites. They know they don’t have what it takes to win in a fair fight so they use their numbers to strangle and steal from the country. They’re happy to ruin the country as long as they can stay in charge. Complete and utter scum.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 07:11
#6
03 Mar 2023, 07:11#6

Sickening ANC corruption...the ANC is worse than the Appartheid government...their criminal neglect kills way more people than the Nats ever did. Scum of the earth.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Mar 2023, 07:19
#7
03 Mar 2023, 07:19#7

Klop & defeat at an election probably won't help either .................... not many African despots worry about election results.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 08:42
#8
03 Mar 2023, 08:42#8

Why did you leave Bob, if you don't mind sharing a tiny bit?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 08:49
#9
03 Mar 2023, 08:49#9

If our populace gets fed up with these f ckers, they might just get stabbed to death in the streets...or worse...Africa's Boendoe courts can be ruthless...the people are angry about the power cuts and if it comes out how much these fckers are stealing, there's gonna be hell to pay.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2023, 09:18
#10
03 Mar 2023, 09:18#10

Please read the following article on the issue:-

Clock ticking on ANC charges against ex-Eskom CEO as party says it can’t act on rumours (msn.com).

SA is just another failed state like happened in the rest of Africa and the fact is that there are fears that SA would become a case where civil war conditions could result.   What makes those condition more pertinent is tribalism in SA.   The Zulus are the one tribe that supported Zuma all out as a Zulu and the riots organized last year in Durban and Johannesburg was laregely the effect of Zuma extremists in the country.   

The ANC became one of the most corrupt political parties in the world - they are on apar with the Democratic Party in the USA in that regard - and all people are sick and tired of them as a governing party.    The local Government elections showed that last year  Only 8 million of the 26 million registered voters voted and the ANC was the chief losers in the process.   At this stage according to the latest opinion polls only circa 40% of the voters still support the  ANC - but even that is a false reflection since the ANC is divided n factions and is also affected by tribalism.    

Will there be a civil war in SA?   Sure there is that possibility - but I think there are two issues that needs to be addressed - namely a new Zondo type of Commission and calling the ANC to clear out the corrupt in their midst.   They should rather be forced into a coalition Government of National Unity without radical elements like the corrupt EFF and the Zuma Zulu loyalists being given crucial Cabinet positions.     

Insofar as the pending Constitutional Court case is concerned  I think Zondo as Chief Justice is going to have a field day.   He already knows what went on at Eskom and is not going to support radicalism in dealing with the issue.   The Court is likely to insist that the allegations as to functioning of Eskom needs to be investigated by a neutral Commission and that the matter be resolved urgently as the country is in chaos at present.    

       


PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
03 Mar 2023, 10:01
#11
03 Mar 2023, 10:01#11

Yes, there is no sense in trying to milk the system for what it cannot provide. It's broken and it will remain broken for a long time. Rather campaign to get experts in to fix what can be fixed and to rid Eskom of the cartels that have captured it.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Mar 2023, 10:03
#12
03 Mar 2023, 10:03#12

Musk?

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 10:28
#13
03 Mar 2023, 10:28#13

Musk won't risk his reputation trying to do something for us...if this corruption gets properly exposed, the whole top structure of the ANC goes to jail...total anarchy, but we need a proper reset, things can't go on like this.

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
03 Mar 2023, 11:31
#14
03 Mar 2023, 11:31#14

No one can do anything until the corruption is stopped and the politicians removed from the equation. The expertise is available, the politicians are in the way.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Mar 2023, 11:38
#15
03 Mar 2023, 11:38#15

'ANC goes to jail' ....................... get real , Zuma got a slap with a wet bus ticket

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 11:42
#16
03 Mar 2023, 11:42#16

Bob, the noise are getting louder...all we have is hope...


That bottom pick is from that thing in Upington...that thing looks eery from close up...got this Sci-Fi dystopian feeling to it...on second thought, it's not the Upington one, but similar. 

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
03 Mar 2023, 11:50
#17
03 Mar 2023, 11:50#17

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/477521-even-elon-musk-cannot-save-eskom-but-private-power-will-save-south-africa.html

that battery farm's in Oz

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2023, 12:02
#18
03 Mar 2023, 12:02#18

Here is the recipe - declare Eskom as bankrupt to be taken over by an international company - even a Chinese one could work -- since they are based on coal electricity supply systems. 

Get a new management structure having nothing to do with the Government in charge.   There priority would be to fire all the incompetents and corrupt in Escom - and replace them with private sector workers not subject to the Unions - but to the Company management.

The same should be done with the railways and other state-owned enterprises.   

Lastly have a Special Commission investigate who in Government - inclusive politicians and Eskom employees should be charged with criminality and sent to jail.         

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
03 Mar 2023, 12:07
#19
03 Mar 2023, 12:07#19

Sun and wind electricity can at present provide at best 15% of the electricity needs in SA  and in fact in any country in the world.   Nuclear power is the answer.  For heaven's sake forget about the bloody Global Warming Religion - they cannot solve anything before at least 2080 at the earliest - provided enough money is pumped into development of infrastructure.    That will in itself ruin the environment and food production in most countries.            

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Mar 2023, 13:02
#20
03 Mar 2023, 13:02#20

The mentality of the majority in this country shows us every couple of years just how fucked up the major population of this country is....

Run the country into the ground.... vote them in again

Run the country into the ground.... vote them in again

Run the country into the ground.... vote them in again

Run the country into the ground.... vote them in again

Run the country into the ground.... vote them in again

A never ending cycle.... but then they want to bitch, moan, strike, attack, kill because of their extreme frustrations, that the party that they still keep voting in, makes their lives worse... day after day.... the exact and pure definition of insanity

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Mar 2023, 13:11
#21
03 Mar 2023, 13:11#21

PRETTY GOOD CONTRIBUTIONS ALL ROUND,. HEAVENS EVEN OU BLOBBER BRAIN SOUNDED SANE FOR  CHANGE!

So why id this power debacle happen. Escom warned the government years before outages started exactly the year when South Africa would run short of electricity. Mike could probably provide dates.

But Oaks NOTHING was done, ZIP! Now why was that. Tell me why do you think nothing was done, Thin about it. Think who Ramaphosa etc are affiliated to. Tip WEF.

Now South Africa has enough top class coal to last for centuries. We also have Uranium. Why haven't we be using this energy riches properly. Why doesn't the Biden Regime want to use their energy riches, Why doesn't the EU countries or UK want to use their energy riches. Who rules these countries. Tip the WEF Globalists.

Why do we have millions of people from the north flooding into South Africa. Why do we have open borders like the USA, Europe, UK. Tip the WEF Globalists.

Why have this Marxist Globalist South African government allowed millions to use energy and not pay for it. Everyne knows that this is a road to ruin.

Then we have the problem of anti white racism as one finds flourishing today in the USA and the EU and UK. Tip WEF Globalists. Many excellent white technicians were laid off etc.

Why did we follow the disastrous Globalist WHO Covid protocols that further damaged our economy. What did we follow protocols that were so obviously nonsense. Who took bribes from Big Pharma etc. 

I can assure you this has all happened as a consequence of deliberate policy choices by people who actually do know better. Just like the 32 trillion USA debt has happened deliberately. All this did not happen because of stupidity.

Now the repercussions of a total blackout are very severe. This again should ring alarm bells. By now everyone should know that under cover of the man made climate change hoax the WEF Globalists their subjugated nations and their media are waging a WAR ON ENERGY. The Purpose of this is very obvious. It is to cause an economic collapse followed by the implementation their tyrannical CCP modelled Build Back Better tyranny. Its also to assist in ensuring the herd is culled of useless eaters. By 2030 you must own nothing and be happy - to be alive that is!

One thing nobody can dispute is that there is a energy crises in many parts of the world where none should exist. Part of the reason for the Ukraine war is the war on energy.

Truly hope a solution is found. The people rising up could stop all this madness.

Finally the man made climate change hoax is probably the most dangerous hoax ever perpetrated on humanity. Name a worse hoax. 

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 13:23
#22
03 Mar 2023, 13:23#22

The thing in Upington:

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2023, 13:34
#23
03 Mar 2023, 13:34#23
The only solution is privatisation but the corrupt scum won’t allow it because they can’t create…only leach. I still have respect for the black african individual, but as a group, I have nothing left for them.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Mar 2023, 13:48
#24
03 Mar 2023, 13:48#24

Privatization needs to be carefully done with competition etc lest we end up with some company making super profits.


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2023, 14:06
#25
03 Mar 2023, 14:06#25
I’ll pay double the current price so long as it’s reliable and the ANC bastards don’t score. But i do understand that higher prices aren’t manageable for lots of people.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 15:00
#26
03 Mar 2023, 15:00#26

Plum, if you take the money from your home bond to go off grid, you should already break more than even, but I'm reluctant ti do it...they're gonna tax the hell outa us as soon as too many stop using ESKOM.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Mar 2023, 17:16
#27
03 Mar 2023, 17:16#27
I really don’t mind paying taxes. I’m on my way back from North America at the moment and people complain about paying taxes there but you can see what it goes to. Clean streets, functioning infrastructure, public libraries that actually work and provide free internet…and all the other stuff that our taxes are mean to go to. I’m sure there is some corruption occurring but the majority of tax money is spent as it’s supposed to be spent by people with a conscience against a backdrop of actual accountability. When my tax money is being used as it should, then i’m happy to be taxed. But when i know that my taxes are basically keeping Range Rovers sales up, that’s when my trigger finger starts to itch. It’s like leaving a box of chocolates with 3 year-olds and telling them not to guts it all down in one go. Zero self-control.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
03 Mar 2023, 18:49
#28
03 Mar 2023, 18:49#28

"But when i know that my taxes are basically keeping Range Rovers sales up, that’s when my trigger finger starts to itch."

That's my gripe...they fail to deliver a service and when you start sourcing your own service, the charge you a fee for the availability of the service they couldn't deliver in the first place...South Africa under ANC rule...making Apartheid look like a just system...trane.

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
03 Mar 2023, 19:15
#29
03 Mar 2023, 19:15#29

The rewards of the past always seem to be gobbled up by the Top Political Brass in any country on the African continent once the "locals" seize power.

Mine, Ours, Our Country or we are the locals is always the cry once the rotters gets into power.

Sad to admit that our decision to move way back in the late 60's and complete the actual move in the 80's with careful planning was right for our family.

But it was plain to see to us all that SA was going to go down the same path as the counties north of our borders had.

So it was a case of "Sink" or "Swim" for us.

WE CHOOSE TO SWIM.

It's sad because when I see how everything is unfolding in RSA today and the difficult and dangerous climate our friends are experiencing daily it hurts, really hurts.

Is it beyond saving is the big question we should be asking. 


BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
07 Mar 2023, 21:20
#30
07 Mar 2023, 21:20#30

Tragically insoluble.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Mar 2023, 08:29
#31
08 Mar 2023, 08:29#31

It absolutely infuriates me when I look at how much tax I pay, and where it goes to.

Subsidizing water supply

Subsidizing electricity supply

I have seen what the RDP housing residents pay for both water and electricity units, compared to lower or middle clas s residents that are only a few kilometers away.... it is pathetic.

There are many other subsidized services that our government should be providing to the population, yet we pay for it.

I see why so many people want to circumvent living costs by trying to gain whatever services they can, either legally or illegally, because people are just gatvol of paying...


PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
08 Mar 2023, 09:50
#32
08 Mar 2023, 09:50#32
When you go to MacDonald’s, you don’t expect excellent or even average food. No, you expect what they have been serving since forever. I think the problem is that we are expecting Africans to something that they have never done and never showed any signs of being able to do. I went to look at property in Canada last week. Been a few years since I travelled outside of SA. Was snowing when I arrived in the evening and due to jet lag I was awake at about 4:30 in the morning. Had a shower and when i stepped off the hotel stairs onto the pavement, there was a municipal worker driving one of those snow clearer’s to clear snow off of the walkways. I don’t know since what time they’d been busy but as i walked through the neighbourhood…i noticed that most of the snow on pavements had already been cleared. Could an African do that job? 100% he could. However, could Africans set up and maintain the systems that create an atmosphere were these simple municipal jobs are carried out efficiently and consistently…no, they’re not able to. SA has only fallen about half the way to its bottom chaps. There’s still a long way down ahead. Greed, lack of morals, incompetence and an inability to delay gratification…that’s Africa.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Mar 2023, 13:22
#33
08 Mar 2023, 13:22#33

Lets give a breakdown of what happened in the case of Eskom.    In 2001 there was an international conference on electicity provision.  Eskom was praised  as the most efficient provider in the world doing that at amazingly low costs and rates.

That situation prevailed until 2007.   Since 1997 electricity was provided  by 2007 to at least 1,5  million extra consumers.    In many meetings with Eskom I kept moaning about the fact that the generating capacity would not be sustainable unless new power plants is provided.   

However, 2007 Zuma was elected as ANC President and the first actions taken was to pension all mechanical expert Whites working for Eskom or fire them.   They were replaced by inexperienced staff with now real idea about the intracity of operation of power plants.   The ANC Government  also announced that 2 new power plants would be constructed at a cost of R75 million per plant.   

So the system start breaking down and loadshedding started in 2008.    The construction of the 2 power plants started in 2008.  The whole construction  process was ridled by corruption and the two plants is still not fully completed and in the meantime the construction costs has been escalated to  R450 million per plant.   at least 70% and resultant delays stemmed from corruption.   

By 2016 the first phases of the 2 power stations came on line and there was hope that the electricity problem was solved.   Far from it - the situation got worse when according to the Zondo Commission corruption took over totally and looting went on beyond recognition.    Some thought something would be done to get Eskom back on track - but it ent from bad to worse. 

There is nothing that can save Eskom from self-destruction - hence my suggestion above that the Government must fuck out of the system and that the whole supply system being privatized and handed to a major international consortium to be fixed and operated.              

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
08 Mar 2023, 16:05
#34
08 Mar 2023, 16:05#34

Let me give an honest account of what is happening to South Africa right now, especially from the far Eastern Coast side.

From further past the Transkei area towards Durban, in the general direction down towards the Cape, through Mthatha, Komga, East London, KWT, Grahamstown, Port Alfred, PE, Jeffrey's Bay, Humansdorp... down towards where it says "Welcome to the Western Cape".... the ANC have decimated these towns.... and I mean they have completely fucked them up....

The public parks are non existent, and if they are there, they are in a terrible state, filled with broken alcohol bottles.

The cemeteries have been vandalized, a lot of tombstones broken, property fencing has been ripped apart and taken.

The black population don't exactly do anything to improve these areas because precisely where they move in, rubbish dumps materialize out of nowhere, and the streets get littered with horrible personal hygiene products, trash and all kinds of shit.... and this is not racist..... these are cold hard facts... the township mentality is brought to the suburbs....where you just dump your shit where you deem fit.....and I just honestly really don't understand why.

Why oh why do black people have to stand in the open road, facing oncoming traffic and expose themselves to any passing children and adults while they take a piss.... we all sometimes get that sudden urge, but then why not just locate the nearest tree, bush or rock to at least try and conceal something whilst also turning your back to any oncoming people.... but no, all black people must for some reason face oncoming people and piss or even shit in their faces...

Graphic I know, but I see this so often, and the truth is the truth

Also, where is the fucking pride?

You move from the townships to the suburbs, why not mow your own lawn, keep your home in good and decent condition..... get involved with your neighbourhood watch?

This is sadly moving all the way to the Cape, which for now is far, far more astute at looking after and maintaining their services and general infrastructure.

The plague is literally moving towards the Cape, and it absolutely astonishing how quickly it is moving, and also how bad it has really got

 

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