Yah....Sinwar is defeated

For one, you mention that Jews are descendants of the Canaanites. That’s not a widely accepted fact. Jewish identity traditionally traces back to the Israelites, descending from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—not the Canaanites.

The Israelites were in turn descendants of the Canaanites.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-near-eastern-world/jews-and-arabs-descended-from-canaanites/#:~:text=The%20study%20in%20Cell%20not,were%20a%20genetically%20cohesive%20people.

 Also, saying that the Arab Muslims who now live in Israel/Palestine are descendants of Canaanites is a claim that doesn’t hold up historically. Arab populations mostly arrived with the Islamic conquests in the 7th century, not thousands of years ago.

I'll cut you some slack is that its only recent research that indicates the Palestinian Arabs are descendants of the Canaanites. I assume what happened is the Arab descendants of the Canaanites simply migrated to another region in that part of the world that was Arab/Muslim got assimilated by them and then moved into Palestine during the 7th century.

You also wrote that Israel used biological weapons. That’s just outright false. There’s no credible evidence supporting that claim, but it’s presented as if it’s established fact.

Emm, no credible evidence support that claim. You might want to read this from Israel's longest running newspaper.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000

. Same with the idea that Arab leaders told Palestinians to flee in 1948. While it did happen in a few cases, the overwhelming cause of Palestinians leaving was fear, violence, and expulsion during the conflict—not some unified directive from Arab leadership.

Emm thats the point I was making. You're just agreeing with me here? 

There a more inaccuracies but I honestly can't be arsed to point out all of them.

Can you point out one at least because so far you have made two errors and agreed with me on a third point.

Now, I’m not saying everything you posted is wrong, but when you intersperse opinion and widely contested claims as fact, it muddies the conversation. And look, we can argue about history until the cows come home, but one thing is clear: Israel has been attacked far more than it’s been the aggressor. 

That's not clear. Take the Israeli Arab War which in turn was an escalation the civil war between Muslims and Jews in Mandatory Palestine. The Arabs launched the first attack of the civil war when they ambushed two buses carrying Jews in short order killing 7 people. That was the trigger event that started the civil war, but from the Arabs perspective its attack was done in response to the Jewish Lehi militant group killing 5 members of a Palestinian family they accused of collaborating with the British some ten days earlier. 

It was Israel that invaded Egypt in 1956 and it was Israel that launched the pre-emptive strike that started the 6 Day War. Now you can argue Israel was justified in its actions for various reasons but then you can say well Hamas was justified in 2008 and 2012 when Israel broke the ceasefires.

Then there is a whole different debate to be had to whether Israel's reactions to some of the attacks against them where justified in scale and scope and yet another debate on whether Israel's actions are completely counterproductive and their actions end up just making more enemies for themselves. No invasion of Lebanon in 1982, there be no Hezbollah. Eliminate one terrorist group another takes it place if the conditions that gave rise to the terrorism in the first place remain..

That’s just fact. It’s a tiny country surrounded by nations and groups that have tried, on multiple occasions, to destroy it. Despite being severely outnumbered in the region, Israel continues to exercise restraint, even when faced with threats from all sides.

And pretty much all the surrounding nations are presently on their knees in dire economics straights. None of them are in any condition to seriously threaten Israel, Egypt would probably be the strongest but strongest is a relative term and its entirely dependent on American aid to keep going and they signed the Abraham accords normalizing relations with Israel.  Jordan is actually helping Israel shoot down Iranian rockets. Syria is completely wrecked by its civil war and Lebanon is on the verge of economic collapse, its cities explode without Israel having to do anything.

But Israel exercising restraint. Jesus H Christ, ignoring for the moment the insanely lob sided body count in the long running conflict between Israel and Palestine, if you can look at what's happening in Gaza at the moment and call that restraint well I don't what to tell ya. What you call restraint a lot of the rest of the world sees as borderline genocide if not outright genocide.

It’s easy to look at things from a distance, but when a country is constantly defending itself against enemies that have openly declared their intent to wipe it out, that’s a reality we can’t ignore. And yes, Israel isn’t perfect, but they’ve shown more restraint than most would in their position.

Well I'm not Jewish so I don't what's it like to be Jewish and to have that 3,000 year history of oppression be such a large part of my heritage. I've visited Auschwitz and seen the evidence of the suffering that happened to them on such a  vast scale and while that doesn't make me all knowledgeable about Jewish people, I do think I can understand from a Jewish perspective that the world seems like a very dangerous place to Jews, that the the Jews have suffered long enough and they have no intention of allowing it to ever happen again. So any threat, no matter how small or big, their going to actively seek it out and try to destroy it before it attempts to destroy them. I remember seeing an interview by a Jewish person a few years back, I believe he was the former head of Mossad or at least someone very high up in it, where he said with great sadness in that the experiences of the Holocaust turned the Jews into a very cold people who could only see threats everyway.  

They've certainly shown far more restraint than I would have.

You'd have gone straight to genocide?

And it's actually pretty easy to understand. What you see happening is that Muslim simply can't offer others the same rights they demand. What do I mean...well, imagine telling Muslim's they couldn't build Mosquess in Europe. Unthinkable, right? And yet...

Whether or not Muslim countries offer the same rights to non Muslims in Muslims countries as Western countries allow Muslims in Europe do is completely irrelevant to the conflict in Gaza. It doesn't justify Israel bombing Gaza back to the stone age.

Are you seeing the pattern?

One where Muslims demand to be treated one way but will never offer you the same rights where they are in control. One where they are living in the dark ages with blasphemy laws 

Dark ages with Blasphemy laws. Wow thank Christ that Ireland ditched its blasphemy law back in 2020, f**k me it was a terrible time before them, the plague was everywhere and their was roving bandits all over the countryside.  Everything's fine now, but because of it being such a terrible experience I don't travel to those dark age regions and countries with Blasphemy laws anymore, you know places like Northern Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Finland, the Czech Republic, Austria and Poland.

but demand all the human rights of the modern world when they come to your house. 

The bastards demanding their hospitals and water supplies not be bombed by Israel, the absolute bastards. 

The fact is that Israel flies directly in the face of the Muslims, in their own back yard, and they can't fucking stand it.

And after all that history between Israel and the Muslims you don't think the Muslims have any right to feel a bit aggrieved at the situation.

I say Israel should stand their ground and bomb the living piss out of any country that attacks them or supports an attack on them.

Take a look at this video of these two Palestinian girls.

https://news.sky.com/video/displaced-girl-carries-little-sister-on-her-shoulders-for-more-than-two-kilometres-in-gaza-seeking-medical-treatment-13238451

Now fine if you want to say that video was staged, go ahead and do so, it may well be but that's aside the point. If you can look at children like that and say well Israel can go ahead and bomb the ever loving crap of Gaza and be perfectly fine with or not care that one of the consequences of that will be a large number of children like those two will be killed, seriously injured maimed, utterly traumatized, left homeless or left as Orphans or a combination of that then you're not in anyway morally superior to a Muslim person who supports Hamas terrorist attacks and maybe just maybe you're the one who belongs in the dark ages. 

Stav

You apparently misunderstood my comments on the Gaza residents - I furst said that Gaza together with the West Banks area should become an independent  country,   

I was crudely sarccastic about the Open Border policy of  the Binden dementia sufferer and the idiotic Harris,  Their policy has resulted in over 11 million illegal migrants entering the USA from 110 countriees,   So 2,5 million Gaza residents would be small fry compared tto the illegals already in the USA.

Fair enough Mike I retract my comments about you supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza.  Now if you can just call out the Russians forceable deportation of Ukrainian children, I'll be happy.

"This is what gets me right, the complete and absolute double standard.

Typically of those people who are of the opinion that Muslims are taking over their country be it in the UK or other European countries, usually the majority of these people support Israel unreservedly. 

Interesting.... please post these stats or your source....

Leaving asides the question of whether Muslims are actually taking over these countries these people seem completely oblivious to the fact they support another country that is in an ongoing process of taking over Muslim territory, territory that has been Muslim for over 1,000 years.

They perceive a Muslim take over of their countries and are outraged. The Muslims should stay in the lands they came from. But its perfectly fine for Israel to take Muslim land"

"These people"...... "Those people".... "They"

More assumptions, accusations and generalisations ..... much like you did on this very thread with Mike and your ethnic cleansing accusation, which was quite despicable..... I think almost everyone here on this forum knew that Mike did not mean that at all, just not you.....you have again accused someone of something with absolutely zero proof, just assumptions....which seems to be a habit of yours.

It's all good and well to retract your comment, good for you, but it doesn't take away the fact that you started it off with a blatant lie, which you have done a few times before.

"The bastards demanding their hospitals and water supplies not be bombed by Israel, the absolute bastards"

You mean, the same hospitals, schools, and residential areas that have already been conclusively proven to have been deliberately built above the Hamas military operation centres and weapons stockpiles, which has been seen as a violation of humanitarian law.......

Interesting.... please post these stats or your source....

That was just my opinion. I don't have anything to base that on other than my own observations over the years, but I stand by that opinion. In my view typically the people who are more vocally critical of taking in Muslims migrants and refugees are on the right of the political spectrum and usually it's that side of the political spectrum that you find the people who are unreservedly pro-Israel. Your comments about civilian infrastructure being deliberately built over Hamas military operation centres is not exactly persuading me that I'm wrong either, quite the opposite.

"These people"...... "Those people".... "They"

More assumptions, accusations and generalisations ..... much like you did on this very thread with Mike and your ethnic cleansing accusation, which was quite despicable..... I think almost everyone here on this forum knew that Mike did not mean that at all, just not you.....you have again accused someone of something with absolutely zero proof, just assumptions....which seems to be a habit of yours.

It's all good and well to retract your comment, good for you, but it doesn't take away the fact that you started it off with a blatant lie, which you have done a few times before.

Plum suggested Israel should just flatten Gaza and force all the Palestinian's out which does amount to ethnic cleansing (odd how you don't find that quite despicable) and when I asked where the Palestinian's where forced to go, Mike said they could go to America, that sounded to me like Mike supported or at least didn't mind if Palestinian's where ethnically cleansed from Gaza, this is after all the same Mike who parrots the Russia narrative on the forceable deportation of Ukrainian children and denied the Russian's committed war crimes at Bucha (odd how you never comment on some of Mikes more "despicable" posts). Turns out Mike was making a joke, and now that he clarified that I retracted the comment.

Got act selectively outraged somewhere else.

You mean, the same hospitals, schools, and residential areas that have already been conclusively proven to have been deliberately built above the Hamas military operation centres and weapons stockpiles, which has been seen as a violation of humanitarian law.......

Okay now this I got to see, Israel has presented evidence that hospitals in Gaza where deliberately built above Hamas military infrastructure?. As in the the hospitals where built with the express purpose of providing protection to Hamas military infrastructure? Even the Hospitals the existed before Hamas came to power? And out of the 35 hospitals in Gaza how many does that apply too. And what is the proof the hospitals where built after the Hamas had built there military infrastructure. I mean how would Israel even know which was built first?

That's an absolutely insane claim. 

Maybe you misspoke, absolutely Hamas has a massive tunnel system in Gaza that goes under civilian infrastructure, like hospitals, schools and residentials area's. But for the most part those tunnels where built after the the infrastructure above it was built. Its possible some was civilian infrastructure was built above tunnels, but that raises the question did the people building that infrastructure even know there was a tunnel below them?

Then we get to the evidence Israel has provided. In one case tunnels where confirmed to run under a hospital and there was several rooms under the hospital surgery that where empty. Israel claimed it was a command post, it may well have been but no one can say for certain. The Doctors in the hospital claim to have never seen any militants inside the actual hospital.

In another case Israel presented video evidence of a entrance to another Hamas tunnel at a different hospital. However it turned out to be a entrance to an emergency water reservoir. 

In another case Israel presented footage of another alleged tunnel entrance at a hospital. A member of the hospital staff (a doctor who if I recall was a westerner not a Palestinian, ) disputed this claim and said the footage presented was that of a ventilation system of a nearby hotel/residential area that's beside the hospital but not actually part of the hospital.

This stuff is really hard to verify. 

At the moment Israel can literally strike any target in Gaza and justify it by saying there was tunnels below it and in most cases its impossible to confirm either way. In striking a target there needs to be proportionality. If a couple of armed Hamas militants enter a hospital is it a justifiable target, if Hamas build a tunnel below the hospital (of which the hospital staff may or may not know anything about) is it a justified target? What's an acceptable collateral damage? In a case of a hospital its not just a matter of how many people are in the hospital at the time of a potential military strike, but also a question of if you destroy that hospital then what about the future medical needs of the population. Israel has pretty much wrecked every hospital in Gaza, is depriving an entire population of 2.3 million people of any semblance of a functioning health care system justifiable?

Absolutely Hamas are scumbags that use human shields (co-incidentally the Israelis are accused of the same now) and have committed numerous crimes and violations of humanitarian law. All this carnage is as much on Hamas as it is on Israel, but Hamas wants the carnage. It wants Palestinian civilians to die. It was part of their plan all along. Commit an appalling massacre against Israeli's, get the eyes of the world to look at Gaza, and then wait for Israel to commit an even greater massacre in front of the onlooking world. They knew the Israeli's wouldn't be able to resist crossing the line from a proportional and justifiable response into outright punitive revenge.

"Maybe you misspoke, absolutely Hamas has a massive tunnel system in Gaza that goes under civilian infrastructure, like hospitals, schools and residentials area's. But for the most part those tunnels where built after the the infrastructure above it was built"

Correct, I meant that the tunnels were deliberately made under these areas or structures for the sole hope and purpose that they would be protected from Israeli attacks....so I have no idea why you don't mention that in your posts, but you rather choose to defend their outrage that they get bombed in the first place.

"At the moment Israel can literally strike any target in Gaza and justify it by saying there was tunnels below it and in most cases its impossible to confirm either way"

This is the one aspect that I don't like and it concerns me.....however there is no real middle ground if your enemy is fighting amongst civilians and also using innocent civilians as shields...whilst running attack lines against you from within these tunnels under these civilian structures or areas.

"They knew the Israeli's wouldn't be able to resist crossing the line from a proportional and justifiable response into outright punitive revenge"

Not sure about this, but maybe....I think between Hamas and Hezbollah, if the top leaders, like Sinwar, Nassallah, Shukr, Haniyeh etc etc knew now how many of them would be killed from the resulting responding attack from Israel, I actually doubt that October 7th would have happened..... because they are cowards, but hindsight is a bitch.

Belgium is a typical example of how the Muslims take over areas of the country and even have their own Muslim Police force.

The county is heading to be the first Muslim run country in Europe as their numbers exploded through births and the flawed system in place in most western countries which allows "Chain Migration" for starters.

Wonder why they don't simply move to another country?

World Muslim domination is the goal.

Screw them I say.

Correct, I meant that the tunnels were deliberately made under these areas or structures for the sole hope and purpose that they would be protected from Israeli attacks....so I have no idea why you don't mention that in your posts, but you rather choose to defend their outrage that they get bombed in the first place.

Because the outrage is justified, Gaza needs hospitals and a functioning health care system, the near total destruction of which is in my view total disproportional to the military advantage Israel obtain in destroying hospitals to get to the Hamas infrastructure that may or may not be beneath them.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says

This is the one aspect that I don't like and it concerns me.....however there is no real middle ground if your enemy is fighting amongst civilians and also using innocent civilians as shields...whilst running attack lines against you from within these tunnels under these civilian structures or areas.

The one aspect?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war

Scroll down and look at that list of war crimes Israel stands accused of. Are you really telling me that Israel had no other choices, there wasn't some sort of middle ground Israel could of chosen? 

Not sure about this, but maybe....I think between Hamas and Hezbollah, if the top leaders, like Sinwar, Nassallah, Shukr, Haniyeh etc etc knew now how many of them would be killed from the resulting responding attack from Israel, I actually doubt that October 7th would have happened..... because they are cowards, but hindsight is a bitch.

Well many of them in the past of said they expected to be "martyred" one day so I'm not so sure.

Aside from that regarding Hezbollah they didn't plan or take part in the October 7th attack (they may have known about it ) and that Mossad operation to put bombs into pagers began in 2022 before the October 7th 2023 attacks. Regardless of whether October 7th occurred or not Israel may still have opted to do that pager attack against Hezbollah at some point. 

Besides that Hezbollah can see the carnage in Gaza, are now themselves coming under direct attack from Israel and yet continue to fire rockets at Israel. Both Hamas and Hezbollah are still choosing to fight on despite the carnage going on around and the causalities they have taken.

Belgium is a typical example of how the Muslims take over areas of the country and even have their own Muslim Police force.

The county is heading to be the first Muslim run country in Europe as their numbers exploded through births and the flawed system in place in most western countries which allows "Chain Migration" for starters.

Complete and utter Isla mophobic bullshit.

Go to Belgium to check for yourself.

You most probably are a Muslim yourself thus the common call of "Islamophobic bullshit" to everything that is a fact.

Where is this Muslim police force located in Belgium?

Muslims make up 7% of Belgium's population when can we expect this Muslim take over of Belgium?

"Because the outrage is justified, Gaza needs hospitals and a functioning health care system, the near total destruction of which is in my view total disproportional to the military advantage Israel obtain in destroying hospitals to get to the Hamas infrastructure that may or may not be beneath them."

To a point, of course it is justified ...but only to a point ..... because they certainly do need these facilities, of that I agree, but then place the blame of these Israeli attacks on the people who are deliberately fighting from, near or under these facilities, not the people actually trying to prevent the attacks from coming from, near or under these same facilitles. 

"The one aspect?

Scroll down and look at that list of war crimes Israel stands accused of. Are you really telling me that Israel had no other choices, there wasn't some sort of middle ground Israel could of chosen? "

What middle ground.... by asking them to not attack from near, under or within civillian areas, which they have been doing for years already.....what rubbish, don't be silly, and don't be so naive....

Do I agree with everything that Israel is doing and how they have responded, no....... do I believe that Israel must use this response to rid themselves of this constant threat.... yes....... do I like the fact that innocent people will get harmed or killed, hell no..... do I understand that if the enemy is hiding and fighting amongst innocent civilians and using them as shields, therefore increasing the possiblitly of a higher death count... yes.

That does not mean that I like or agree with any of it, it just means that I accept the potential outcomes or consequences on both sides, if they both want to engage or implement these strategies in a war.

"Regardless of whether October 7th occurred or not Israel may still have opted to do that pager attack against Hezbollah at some point."

I doubt that.... this was as insurance policy, but yeah, they could have, we will never know.

To a point, of course it is justified ...but only to a point ..... because they certainly do need these facilities, of that I agree, but then place the blame of these Israeli attacks on the people who are deliberately fighting from, near or under these facilities, not the people actually trying to prevent the attacks from coming from, near or under these same facilitles. 

What middle ground.... by asking them to not attack from near, under or within civillian areas, which they have been doing for years already.....what rubbish, don't be silly, and don't be so naive....

Tell me how Hamas are actually suppose to fight Israel? Israel completely outmatch Hamas in manpower and massively overmatch them military capability. If Hamas where to go toe to toe with the IDF in an area without civilian's what do you think the IDF would do, say to Hamas well that's quite sporting of you, lets get our horses and lances and settle this in a gentlemanly joust? No they would have free reign to just absolutely pummel Hamas into dust with mass artillery and air strike. Hamas would barely able to scratch the IDF before its annihilated. And second where in Gaza isn't close to or near civilians area's. Its one of the most densely populated places on earth. How you can call Hamas what ever you want but they are not idiots, they know they can't fight the IDF directly, so the used asymmetric warfare, guerrilla tactics, terrorist tactics, they strike from the crowd and blend back into the crowd. Nothing particularly new about it, that's how weaker powers have fought stronger powers for centuries. That's how the IRA fought the war of Independence in 1919-1921.

Do I agree with everything that Israel is doing and how they have responded, no....... do I believe that Israel must use this response to rid themselves of this constant threat.... yes.

That's the thing it won't, at most it will buy them some time before it happens again. Its the definition of madness, doing the same thing over and over. Only a political solution will bring peace to Israel and Palestine in the long run.

This is what the Plum does.

He takes a very complicated topic and coverts it to this simple clear cut black and white choice of good and evil. One side is clearly good and all its actions can be justified as a necessary evil and the other side is straight up evil, they have no valid grievances and are just evil for the sake of it and as a result any and all action taken against them is permittable.

It's just blatant right wing nonsense where you either agree with them or you're a virtue signaller.

A plane carrying 100 people is hijacked and the hijackers have said they will crash into a sports stadium where 10s of thousands of people are. You have to make the decision, either shoot down the plane and kill 100 innocent people or don't shoot it down and thousand likely die.

Stav will call you bloodthirsty and say you couldn't wait to kill the 100 innocent people. 

Again with the childish oversimplification. Clear cut Jack Bauer clock is ticking situations like this rarely exist in real life, but if it did happen, I'd say shoot that plane down, it is the lesser of two evils.

Plum on the other hand would say, shoot down every plane, just in case their might be a terrorist on board.

 That you're somehow to blame for the entire scenario in the first place

Imagine living in a world where, you take a peoples land, you kick out a load of them and not let them back, you oppress those that remain for a further 70 years, deny them basic human rights , randomly kill and detain them, steal more of their land over that time and then except their to be zero repercussions for that course of action?

Because he just can resist using the opportunity to place himself in the pedestal, above you.

Its not my fault your arguments are so crap.

And it's exactly that weak minded type of bullshit that terrorists rely on, and virtue signallers can't wait to pounce on in order to make themselves seem oh so righteous.

LOL railing against this ghastly virtue signallers again.  Its easy to spot when you have run out of argument to make when you fall back on this distraction.

You going acknowledge your wrong about Israel's biological weapon usage in 1948, you going acknowledge Israel settlement expansion is stealing Palestinian land. Are you going answer the question where the Palestinian's are supposed to go if the Israeli's follow your advise and kick out the Palestinian's from Gaza?

They'll talk about grey areas and complex consequences all day long. Then when the thousands are killed in the sports stadium they'll throw their hands up and blame others for not acting sooner.

The world is a complex place with various shades of grey, miles beyond these silly oversimplifications you try to convert them into.

When that plane is hijacked for the 30th time and you keep having to shoot it down, at some point are you ever going ask yourself why they keep hijacking the f**king planes.

Deleted

Terrorists hiding behind women, children and other civilians should be hunted down like the dogs they are, but "collateral damage" is not an excuse for over reaction...it only fuels the burning hate.

"This is what the Plum does.

He takes a very complicated topic and coverts it to this simple clear cut black and white choice of good and evil. "

There is no grey on the planet Meton.

The world is a complex place with various shades of grey, miles beyond these silly oversimplifications you try to convert them into.

Not in ButtPlug's head, our resident attention seeker .....watch him unleash on his soap box.

So (sic) what shades of gray exist for you in the case of Trump? It’s hilarious, nobody has been so uniformly pig headedly one sided on any single topic.  And that’s true about almost any political topic.  Still  you have the gall to accuse others of having no balance.

Stav

Thanks

I have a problem though iro Ukraine.    It is an Open Policy of the Ukraine Government  to remove all righys of Russin speaking people in Eastern Ukraine who lived in the area now part of Ukraine for hundres of years to strip them of their human rights totally and force hem to speak only the  Ukraine  language and culture and if they refuse o accpt that to depaort them from UKraine.   

Practical examples are -

*    banning of Russian in all Ukraine schools

*    banning of the Ukraine Orthodox Church because the religious proceses and believes are   all the same throughout all Orthodox churches irrespective of which country they operate in.  

#     arresting all Russian speaking members  of the Ukraine Parliament

The Civil War in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014 because the new Government discarded the 1991 Constirtution of Ukraine .

Since about 30% of the residnts of Ukraine are Russian Speaking people.    The area were incorproated into Ukraine in 1953 because the Russian Communist Party did not Trust the Ukrainians after their cnduct during WW2, with Ukranians fighting  on the side of the Nazis under Bandera,    The idea of the RCP was to ensure that their are enough Rssians in Ukraine to increase the unflunce of the Ukrians in governing  of  Ukraine.

Be it as it may their are many countries in the world where more than one language is spken - in SA their are 11 recognized languages recognized in the Constitution.   In Belgiunm their are two -same as is in Canada.   Their are Russian speaking people living in te Baltic countries and their language and culture is not undermined like happened in Ukraine from 2014.

Indeed one cannot understand why in the modern world  their sh ould b oppression of peple based on the language they speak or their cultural beliefs,   Ukraine at present has no Constitution and no proision as to protection of Human Righs     

I think their would have been noo ciil war in stern Ukraine if the 1991 Constitution was not discarded by the bew Governmnt.   If the Minsk agreement wa implemented and the country compild a new Constiution approved by the Ukraine people there would have been no civil war and no subsequent invasion of Ukraine if there was a Constitution introduced in Ukraine,   

At present there is no democracy left in Ukraine and that is why peace negotiations is impossible. 

"How you can call Hamas what ever you want but they are not idiots"

There were definitely idiots for what they did to Israel on October the 7th last year..... they poked and poked.....and finally the bear woke up, and the floodgates have opened.

What Hamas did on that day, was not only incredibly stupid...it was despicable.

Not sure if you have seen some of the uncut and unedited video of what they did to the woman and children especially......truly horrendous.

"they know they can't fight the IDF directly, so the used asymmetric warfare, guerrilla tactics, terrorist tactics, they strike from the crowd and blend back into the crowd"

We all know that this has been done for centuries.....but this is the cowardly way to try and win a battle or a war, by pleading that you are being unfairly bombed and targeted, yet you continue to use those same people as shields and hide behind innocent citizens, whilst launching your own missles and other weaponds towards the enemy..... there seems to be no easy solution at the moment besides warfare, which is pathetic..... some people should at some point be able to sit down and discuss options.

There were definitely idiots for what they did to Israel on October the 7th last year..... they poked and poked.....and finally the bear woke up, and the floodgates have opened.

And the Palestinian's have been poked since 1948. 

What Hamas did on that day, was not only incredibly stupid...it was despicable.

Despicable, vile, repulsive and disgusting yes. Stupid well that remains to be seen. I know that might seem very very strange to say that as Gaza is pummelled into dust and the leadership of Hamas has been wiped out, but Hamas may still get what they want out of this conflict.

From the perspective of Hamas, before October 7th the Israel-Palestine conflict was out of the news. There was zero progress on the diplomatic front to try to find any political solution. You would have to go back to Clinton administration for the last serious diplomatic attempt to resolve the conflict. Successive American administrations had come and gone from Bush-Obama-Trump-Biden. Of the 4 Trump who by far was the most Pro-Israeli President was the only one who actually tried a diplomatic solution, but his deal of the century was widely regarding as a completely lopsided farce that gave Israel everything it wanted while just trying to buy of the Palestinian's with money. The Palestinian's didn't even consider his offer. The other 3 where hands off the issue. All 4 maintained strong military to aid Israel as support for Israel in the US has bipartisan support across both democrats and republicans. All this time Israel was free to maintain its blockade on Gaza, the expansions of settlement into the West Bank and thousands of Palestinian's remained detained without trial. The longer settlement expansion goes on the more difficult it becomes for their to be any sort of Palestinian in the future.

So Hamas launched the October 7th attacks. The knew the brutality of which would rightly see them be condemned around the world, but since their reputation was already so low around the world they where willing to been seen that way because they banked on the Israeli's not being able to restrain themselves and that the Israeli response would be seen as even worse than what Hamas did on October 7th around the world and that's something they have largely got. 

But what they really want is for Israel to go further beyond that line, where either Israel goes into the realms of ethnic cleansing or genocide and its beyond dispute in front of the eyes of the world, where the Palestinian civilian body count is so high that Israel's western backers say "enough we can't be part of this anymore, we can't be enablers of this" and force Israel back to the negotiation table and make major concessions to the Palestinians. Or alternatively the conflict escalates into a conflict between Iran and Israel and and  its possible the west wanting to cont ain the conflict put diplomatic pressure on Israel to make concessions.

Now none of that may come to pass. The conflict may end without that happening and the status quo is resumed. But I wouldn't rule out Hamas at least getting part of what it wants just yet. In the long run they may end up stronger, as Israel's actions in the Gaza strip may provide them with an endless supply of new recruits.

Not sure if you have seen some of the uncut and unedited video of what they did to the woman and children especially......truly horrendous.

I've seen some of the edited clips and I've absolutely no doubt what they committed utterly horrendous acts of extreme barbaric violence against men, women and children.  

We all know that this has been done for centuries.....but this is the cowardly way to try and win a battle or a war, by pleading that you are being unfairly bombed and targeted, yet you continue to use those same people as shields and hide behind innocent citizens, whilst launching your own missles and other weaponds towards the enemy.

But how else are they suppose to fight, direct confrontation with Israel would be suicide on the part of Hamas.

I think there is an interesting analogy with the Irish War of Independence of 1919-1921. In that conflict the IRA (side note the IRA of that conflict are not the same as the IRA paramilitary group that conducted terrorism during the troubles of late 1960's to the 1990's) used similar tactics to what Hamas use now, although they the most part they stuck to targeting elements of British rule in Ireland like the police force and members of the British administration in Ireland and not civilians, though there was exceptions. The British tried various tactics to counter the IRA included using the infamous Black and Tans, where several reprisal attacks occurred against the civilian population such as the burning of Cork among other atrocities but nothing as severe or as sustained as what Israel is doing in present day Gaza. The war ended as a sort of draw that resulted in a diplomatic solution, a solution that would allow Ireland to go to achieve full independence 20 years later.

Future British Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery of El Alamein fame was sent to Ireland during the later stage of the conflict to conduct counter guerrilla activities and in a letter he wrote in 1923 after the conflict he gave his views on the conflict.

He basically said Britain had two choices in that conflict. Britain could of won the conflict, but not with the half hearted measures it had implemented. It would have need to have been far more ruthless and harsh against Irish population, in the style of Oliver Cromwell or the Germans.

He was not in favour of this solution on two grounds. The first was the diplomatic damage such measures would of done to Britain in the eyes of the world, it simply wasn't an acceptable thing to do anymore. Secondly it would have only put down the rebellion temporarily and it simply started up again a few years done the line.

Hence he supported the second option, the one the British took, a negotiated settlement.

I think in that their is a lesson for the Israeli's there. If you look above to the posts either Plum or myself made that has that long lists of conflict Israel has been involved in, none of those conflicts brought peace and security to Israel. Doing the same thing over and over, just seems like madness.

Stav

I agree with you about negotiations to solve problems in the ME - but under present circumstabnces it will never happen.  Such negotiations can only happen with a strong Government  in  Washiiin guarenteeing  that both sides respect agreements on  issues - the same applies in Ukraine as well.

In the ME the Biden Admsinistration is despised by both the Muslim countries and by the Israeli's as being totally unreliable and if  Harris wins the elecction - the terrible situation in the ME is not te only problem that will follow.   In such an eventuality the Chinese are preparing to attack both Taiwan and South Korea and the only thing left would be for the US Government to plead with the CCP  to allow for the evcuation of the US soldiers and ruling anti-Communist psrty leaders  to be allowed to leave South Korea and Taiwan like happened in South Vietnam in 1972 and  in Afghanistan in 2022 - in the latter case they bribed the Taliban to allow American citizens and Green Card holders to leave Afghanistan - at least sme people regarded as traitors were allowed to leave while thousands were butchered by the Taliban..

Many people believe the  instability in the world today was caused by chaotic US Foreign policy and that the USA and their allies as a result is stumbling into WW3.- a war that has the potential to  wipe out the world population through usage of nuclear weapons by both sides.   

Lets hope a stronger and more reasonable and respected  US President is elected in the USA in 10 days time. otherwise all of us will have seriouss survival problems by the end of this year.

.  

"Lets hope a stronger and more reasonable and respected  US President is elected in the USA in 10 days time . . ."

Huh?

Strong, reasonable and respected?

Surely you don"t mean Bozo . . . a weak loser who has never been reasonable in his whole life and who became the laughing stock of the world during his disastrous first term.

You'd have to be a brainwashed fool to think Bozo has any of the qualities you speak of.

I clearly meant the election of the clueless imbecile  Harris would be a world wide disaster and the instablity in the world started by the dementia suffering Biden will get much worse.   

But then you are really a brainwashed idiot as well.   Despite your idiocy there were not new wars wwhen Trump was President and he managed to try and negotiate peaceful negotiations.   in trouble states around the world.   Biden did the exact opposite - his only foreign achievement was farting  before royalty.   That is why he was not allowed at the funeral of Queen Elizabeth and the crowning of  King Charles.   At the ceremoney of the  80th landing of allied troops in Normandy - he wondered off in the  ceremoney and the Italian Prme Minister - who despises Biden anyway - had to grab his arm and dragged him back to the NATO nation leaders for an arranged photo .opportunity,   Another example was the NATO Conference here he was invited to attend by the German Government at 19:00 because he could not work more than 4 hours a day and had to go to bed at 16:00 every day.   For he world his presidency was a disaster - and Harris' one would be a catastrophe,     

How many world country leaders have contacted Trump this year to express the hope he wins the election - while onlythe main enemies of the USA supports the election of Harris.  That include China, Russia and Iran  - as well as leaders of all BRICS countries.   That is the reality in the present situation and the question is why do they do that?

                    .    .  

Harris winning the President, would largely see the same policies as now. She will probably be somewhat more critical of Israel but because of the American political structure she will unlikely do anything more than Biden is already doing even if she wanted too. 

Changing American policy towards Israel is frankly beyond the capability of any President alone regardless of party even if they wanted too. It would require a more gradual change in attitudes across both parties regarding Israel.

Despite your idiocy there were not new wars wwhen Trump was President

No asteroids hit earth under Biden's Presidency either.

he managed to try and negotiate peaceful negotiations

He tried in North Korea and failed.

He negotiated a terrible deal with Taliban in Afghanistan behind the back of Afghan government.

He had moderate success in the middle east with the Abraham Accords, but he made peace between Israel and Palestine harder to achieve with his decision to recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and his so called Deal of Century regarding Palestine-Israel was a joke than only served to demonstrate how little he understood about the conflict.

   Biden did the exact opposite - his only foreign achievement was farting  before royalty.   That is why he was not allowed at the funeral of Queen Elizabeth and the crowning of  King Charles

Oh grow up man. The British Royal family extended him a private invitation. And from various interviews with people who worked with Royal family its pretty clear Queen Elizabeth was no fan of Donald Trump.

  At the ceremoney of the  80th landing of allied troops in Normandy - he wondered off in the  ceremoney and the Italian Prme Minister - who despises Biden anyway - had to grab his arm and dragged him back to the NATO nation leaders for an arranged photo

Yes we all saw the funny footage of Biden talking to no one right? HAHAHAHA. Except Biden wasn't talking to no one, he was talking to a group of paratroopers that had took part in the ceremony. They where just off camera when that footage was shot. Various witnesses including Meloni confirmed this.

Another example was the NATO Conference here he was invited to attend by the German Government at 19:00 because he could not work more than 4 hours a day and had to go to bed at 16:00 every day.  

Except this alleged occurrence didn't occur at a NATO conference but at an informal G7 meeting where was due to meet the German chancellor . And no one claimed he could not work more than 4 hours a day. What was reportedly said was that Biden works best between 10AM and 4PM. Nothing about Biden going to bed at 4PM. 

 For he world his presidency was a disaster - and Harris' one would be a catastrophe,     

Yes for some reason most of the rest of the Western world would prefer Harris to be President.

How many world country leaders have contacted Trump this year to express the hope he wins the election - while only the main enemies of the USA supports the election of Harris. 

Who contacted him? Orban was it. Who else? Again bullshit, world leaders don't go around saying who they would prefer to win a US Presidential election one way or another. Its not proper for the leaders of other coun tries to do so as it could be seen as election interference, hence they don't do it.

 Sav

Lets deal with the isues you mentioned one by one.

You mentiond the North Ireland agreement - but aidd to menion that the main negotiators leading the talks were Ramaphosa and Meyer - who negotiated the end of Aprtheid in SA as well.    As to the Ukraine issue they offered to help negotiate a peaceful settlement  in Ukraine as well - but he US Governmen rejected the offer and so did their surrogates in Kiev.

As to North Korea while the negotiations were ongoing TRump demanded that North Korea stop nuclear bob testing and firing intercontinental missile tests.  Not one bomb or missile was tested,   The Biden fucked up totlaly and immeiately after he took office the testing starteed again.

As to te ME situation the Abrahamic Accord was signed by both Israel and the  Muslim  countries in  both the ME and Egypt.    Trump also punished Iran for their role in proxy wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and Mozambique  by freezing dollars earned by Iran from oi sales to other countries.    Biden discarded  the Accord mentiond and illegaly unfrozed hundreds of billions of frozen Iran dollars the Ayaollah Government to enhace the proxy wars - imprve their own armament industry aand fund Hezollah and Hamas.    Iran is now proected by BRICS as a member.    Previous close allies of the USA - lie Saudi-Arabia, Egypt and the United Arab Emiraes also joined BRICS and Turkey already applied for memebership as well.So what has Biden achieved in the ME -  total disaster. 

The story about the burial and crowwining is true - Biden was invited to send a representative and he snt his wife and she was seated far away behind the leaders of the Commenwealth countries also attending both ceremonies.   The Royal family decidd on invitations - not the UK Government - so that showed they did not want Biden at the Ceremoney.

As to the photo opportunity issue the leaders were talking about unfolded parachutes  and Biden wandered off looking at something else until the Italian grabbed his arm and dragged him back to the  other leaders for th photo oppotunity,  The Italian Minister met Trump at Mar-el-Lago since she believed he is a real leader.

As to Biden sleeping and resting timefrom - a number of experts were called to  Camp David to help him prepare for the Debate - there was no toer Government officials dealing with other Government issues at all.   The experts confirmed they could see Biden only at 11:00 until unch at 13:00 and then from 14:00 to 16:00 on all the days they were at Camp David.   The organized function by the German Government took place at 19:00 and was ong after bedtime for Biden - which sme whistleblowers reveal was 16:00 every day.   Besid that iden was throughout his Precidency was in the WH on averge only 4 days a week - for the rest he was at his home or hoiliday home in Delaware or Camp David where he isolated himself when the disastros Aghanistan wthdrawal was in full swing.  

Sure the Western Governmets may publicly say they prefer Harris  - but so did all  the USA enemies.  By the way the Italian Prime Minster visited him and so did at least 5 other Central and South American leaders.

    .        

You mentiond the North Ireland agreement - but aidd to menion that the main negotiators leading the talks were Ramaphosa and Meyer

I didn't, and they where not the main negotiators, not by a long shot. They played a role in the process but no where near being the main players in.

 As to the Ukraine issue they offered to help negotiate a peaceful settlement  in Ukraine as well - but he US Governmen rejected the offer and so did their surrogates in Kiev.

Reamphosa's peace plan was rejected by both Russia and Ukraine. The US does not have surrogates in Kyiv, that's complete and utter horse shit. Ukraine is an independent country outside of the Russia occupied territories. 

As to North Korea while the negotiations were ongoing TRump demanded that North Korea stop nuclear bob testing and firing intercontinental missile tests.  Not one bomb or missile was tested,   The Biden fucked up totlaly and immeiately after he took office the testing starteed again.

Trump demanded that. Love the phrasing. Are you going to omit the part where Trump conceded to the North Korean demand that joint military exercises between South Korea and the US be halted during negotiations?

And what is this absolute garbage about it being Biden's fault. US-North Korean negotiations broke down in February 2019 nearly two years before Biden got into office. And the North Korean's resumed missile testing in May 2019.

There is no other way to describe those negotiation's as anything other than a failure.

As to te ME situation the Abrahamic Accord was signed by both Israel and the  Muslim  countries in  both the ME and Egypt. 

As I already said that was a reasonable achievement on his part. But his policies that directly related to the Israel-Palestine policy can only be described as either making peace more difficult to achieve or so laughably bad it gained zero traction to begin with.

Trump also punished Iran for their role in proxy wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and Mozambique  by freezing dollars earned by Iran from oi sales to other countries.    Biden discarded  the Accord mentiond and illegaly unfrozed hundreds of billions of frozen Iran dollars the Ayaollah Government to enhace the proxy wars - imprve their own armament industry aand fund Hezollah and Hamas. 

Trump regened on a deal between the US and Iran that both his own intelligence services and that of America's allies and the IAEA said Iran was complying with. Purely out of spite for Obama. 

There was no accord Biden discarded regarding the freezing of Iran money, it wasn't illegally unfrozen and it wasn't hundreds of billions it wat $16 billion. $6 Billion of which was unfrozen as part of a prisoner exchange between Iran and the US. The money was unfrozen on the condition it be used for humanitarian use, the same reason Trump allowed the Iranian's to have limited access to those same funds while he was President.

Of course America has no way of enforcing how Iran spends that money now, but its not like Iran had ever stopped or had no money to fund Hamas and Hezbollah while Trump was President.

Iran is now proected by BRICS as a member.    Previous close allies of the USA - lie Saudi-Arabia, Egypt and the United Arab Emiraes also joined BRICS and Turkey already applied for memebership as well.So what has Biden achieved in the ME -  total disaster. 

BRICS is a joke organisation. Its a vehicle that's completely lopsided in China's favour and the countries involved have far too many outstanding issues with each other for to be a serious power block or even for it to last very long.

The story about the burial and crowwining is true - Biden was invited to send a representative and he snt his wife and she was seated far away behind the leaders of the Commenwealth countries also attending both ceremonies.   The Royal family decidd on invitations - not the UK Government - so that showed they did not want Biden at the Ceremoney.

Biden was invited and attended the funeral with his wife. The Biden's seating arrangements where due to Biden arranging his own transport to the funeral and not using the buses that had been provided for other world leaders, probably on security grounds. This caused the Biden's to arrive late. Its the Royal Family who decides who attends a Royal Funeral not the British Government.

As to the photo opportunity issue the leaders were talking about unfolded parachutes  and Biden wandered off looking at something else until the Italian grabbed his arm and dragged him back to the  other leaders for th photo oppotunity,  The Italian Minister met Trump at Mar-el-Lago since she believed he is a real leader.

Wandered off, absolute crap. He was standing just a few feat away from the photo op. And Meloni did not go to Mar-el-Lago.

As to Biden sleeping and resting timefrom - a number of experts were called to  Camp David to help him prepare for the Debate - there was no toer Government officials dealing with other Government issues at all.   The experts confirmed they could see Biden only at 11:00 until unch at 13:00 and then from 14:00 to 16:00 on all the days they were at Camp David.   The organized function by the German Government took place at 19:00 and was ong after bedtime for Biden - which sme whistleblowers reveal was 16:00 every day.   Besid that iden was throughout his Precidency was in the WH on averge only 4 days a week - for the rest he was at his home or hoiliday home in Delaware or Camp David where he isolated himself when the disastros Aghanistan wthdrawal was in full swing.  

And then in actuality we know Trump spent less time in the White House than Biden did during his term, the least amount of time in the White House of any President since FDR. 

https://rollcall.com/2024/07/12/trumps-presidential-office-hours-were-the-shortest-since-fdr-bidens-not-far-behind-him/

Sure the Western Governmets may publicly say they prefer Harris  - but so did all  the USA enemies.  By the way the Italian Prime Minster visited him and so did at least 5 other Central and South American leaders.

Western governments for the most part don't say they prefer anyone. It's not appropriate for them to do so.

When did Meloni visit him and who where the 5 other leader of Central/South America?

"Surely you don"t mean Bozo . . . a weak loser who has never been reasonable in his whole life and who became the laughing stock of the world during his disastrous first term.

If Trump is a weak loser, you're a fart in the wind...and he wasn't the laughing stock of the world...only the envious petulant lefties hate him...he had plenty support world wide...from the sane levelheaded portion of the globe...the people who enjoy less wars and low inflation...

Stav

With due respect to the above it is realy cock-eyed nonsense.

Northern Ireland.

I used the wrong word - Ramaphosa and Meyer were the MEDIATORS - wheever there were sticky points they were asked to be the mediators.    That was recognized by all people involved in the process,  

Ukraine

True the peace plan was rejected by the USA  and their Ukraine uderlinks,   Russia never rejected it.   As a result Biden sent the idiotic Blinken to SA to use its influence  in Africa to support the USA on the  Ukraine War issue.   The meeting with the then SA Foreign Minister (Minister Pandor)  lasted less than half and hour.    Minister Pandor gave Blinken a lecture on the issue of solving problems by negotiation.    When he then started with  an effort to justify the war in Ukraine - Mrs Pandor got up and said to Blinken that he is wasting her time and walked out of the meeting.   The idiot theb went to Ruanda and was sent packing as well.

North Korea

You appear to now nothing about the issue other than media BS.   What remains was an 00act their were joint South Korean and the USA while Trump was president and there were NO nuclear bom or missile testing while he was President.-  a week after Biden was swoern in the tesdting started again.  At least theire were negotiations not armour testing.

ME.      

The Obama deal was a farce.  The Iran Government moved or turned rsearch and enricment facilitie into army camps which the monitors was not allowed to monitor and the Iran  Government broke every paragraph of the Obama treaty,    By the time Trump became President he tore up the agreement for sound reasons.   It wa blatantly clear that Iran had more enriched uranium than they had while the agreement wa signed.

In 2018 a law was passed by Congress and signed into law hat all dollar income of Iran is to be frozen unless they stop their participation in proxy wars and stop funding terrorism.  Any breach by Biden was illegal.   A Congress investigation found that the actual funds unfrozen by Biden amounted to over $200 billion and probably much more.- this came from congressional documentation.

BRICS

Sorry to disappoit you - but BRICS is not a paper tiger - it is an extremely dangerous oganization and you would find it out to your own detriment.     I live in one such country and fear for what will happen in future as well.   BRICS have a constitution that control the foreign policy of memebrs and prevent war between memebrs,    Their army strengths are ten times anything that NATO can come up with.   The 19th century is gone and what we have now is the weakest the western countries have ever been.

The Photo up

It was true what I said and it is proven by the video on the  incident,    The WH afterwards climed that the video was tampered with.    The Italian Pime Minister after the meeting referred to went to Florida to see Trump before she returned to Italy.

Time spending at the WH and Official duty

That story that you came up was BS to counter the fact that Biden spent 4 days a week at most at the WH - for the rest of his week he was in Delaware.  FACT

Supporting Biden

The Chinese mand Russian media support Harris all out and so does  some of the worse haters of he USA.    

        .                           

Laughing stock of the world . . . 

The weak loser who couldn't accept defeat and made up a whole load of bullshit about a rigged election . . . something which very stupid people still believe to this day . . . in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

The weak, morally-bankrupt clown who was pampered as a child, made rich by his daddy and has no respect for any other human being on the planet.

Bozo can be summed up by Sharpiegate . . . and the memes that came out were the funniest things on the internet in decades!

LMAO!

A weak, conceited and trul y repulsive loser.

If Trump is a weak loser, you're a fart in the wind...and he wasn't the laughing stock of the world...only the envious petulant lefties hate him...he had plenty support world wide...from the sane levelheaded portion of the globe

He did have his supporters in most countries, maybe a reasonable sizeable minority, but if you believe it was just envious petulant lefties who didn't like him then a card carrying member of the Trump cult. It was everyone on the left and nearly everyone in the centre and most moderate centre right people who had an ounce of common decency who couldn't stand the man and viewed him as a joke. Go ahead and look up various polling over Trumps Presidency to get a view on how the rest of the world viewed the man.

the people who enjoy less wars and low inflation...

Stop being so lazy and educate yourself man. At some point your going have to realise that shouting Orange Man Bad and Trump Derangement Syndrome isn't a valid excuse to forgo critical thinking. The US President is the single most powerful powerful person on the planet, in terms of political power nothing else comes close. But at the same time its not this all powerful position and that not every single event on the planet revolves around the US President. Its also pretty damn insulting to the rest of the world, its implies the world outside the US has no agency of its own, it just reacts to the whims of the US Presidency. The underlining conflict in Ukraine and Israel-Palestine have nothing to do with the US President and inflation in the US (which is now pretty decent at the moment) was mostly caused by factors outside the influence of the powers of the US President according to a majority of economists.

"Stop being so lazy and educate yourself man. At some point your going have to realise that shouting Orange Man Bad and Trump Derangement Syndrome isn't a valid excuse to forgo critical thinking. "

LOL...go look in the mirror...at some point you will realise that facts matter...not only the facts you like.