SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Apr 2015, 16:54#2
No place for the wonderfully talented Adi Jacobs then?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Apr 2015, 20:51#3
To o valuable to leave on the bench....statistically the best centre in the TN 2008.
JEJeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
29 Apr 2015, 20:58#4
You can put Greyling up there too, he's brawn without brains.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Apr 2015, 21:00#8
Oh sure. Nobody gets near Olivier for number of tests played per try scored..the man was toothless. But what would we expect of a centre regularly gassed by props.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Apr 2015, 21:37#9
A classical Mozart quote:-
"But what would we expect of a centre regularly gassed by props. "
The only center I know that is slower than Olivier ever was is Fransie Steyn, closely followed by JP.
Mozart is quick to quote stats - but dear Fransie's stats are ignored as irrelevant. Since his return from France in 2012 our Fransie has scored one charge-down try against the Argentinians in a test and one try against the Cheetahs on Super 15 level. What an achievement!!!! That from a guy who criticized other players for being slow.
Does Olivier by any chance have thin wrists and thin shoulders??????????
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Apr 2015, 21:46#14
Game over ...bwaaaaaa hahahahahahahahaa....you sure know how to pick 'em!
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Apr 2015, 21:51#15
Did anybody mention Jordaan in this discussion - dofdoos? You are really getting sillier by the second.
30 Apr 2015, 22:14#16
Goosen's Bok career has taken a hit by his move to France, he's second choice to Sexton and there is huge breaks in the Top 14 so he can't really get a run of games. When he did get a run of games he was playing well but then the Six Nations came along and his form dropped along with the team's, as it was full of second string players covering for the players who got called up for their national teams.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 Apr 2015, 23:23#19
Morne Steyn's move to France exposed how really putrid a flyhalf he really is. He went to Stade Francais AS THEIR FIRST CHOICE STARTING FLYHALF - and ended up as the benchwarmer - only chosen when Plisson is not available. Goosen never went to racing metro as the Clubs first choice flyhalf - since S exton fulfilled that role.
Despite the fact that he was out for a while he did well for the club when he did play - even from the bench - unlike Morne who was poor all along, whether starting or on the bench.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Apr 2015, 23:57#20
Ja I remember hahahahaha Plisson another pick of yours....God's gift to England!
01 May 2015, 00:15#21
Hahahaha. The standard Morne fallback.
Wasn't Goosen "signed to take over from S.exton", once he returned to Ireland? Well, that was what we were told was the case. Fact is that the first opportunity he had to prove that he was the one to replace S.exton he blew it.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 May 2015, 00:46#22
You have to wonder at the logic. Because Morne was signed as a starter according to Moronic and Goosen as a reserve....somehow Goosen is a better player if they both are on the bench. The cobwebs are stirring tonight.
01 May 2015, 02:02#23
Ceradyne, I made an effort to watch Goosen at Racing Metro, his best games were at flyhalf. Before the EOYT last year Meyer's mentioned that Goosen was playing his rugby at fullback, he played there twice maybe three times and atleast once was from the bench at fullback.
Dambielle had only played at flyhalf because Dulin was injured and Goosen was made to play at fullback.
His most recent game he came off the bench for Sexton against Montpellier and in the match before that.
01 May 2015, 02:03#24
I'd go as far to say up to this point in time Goosen has played 80% of his match time at flyhalf.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
01 May 2015, 09:02#25
At least Stade Francais was hoping desperately for the departure of Morne Steyn. They could not find a club stupid enough to take him over - so they had no option but to deny it afterwards. There is no sign that Racing Metro wants to terminate Goosen's contract.
Mozart's BS always comes out clearly. Lets take the last matches played by Plisson and Steyn - here are the stats-
Plisson0/096/8/33000101/10/000/0
Steyn0/033/12/4700003/00/000/0
Plisson played for half the match - Morne for the other half. Just look at the ball carries and the distance gained by the two players and you would see why Morne is piss poor compared to Plisson.
01 May 2015, 10:01#26
@Shezza. I made a spreadsheet to check where and when Goosen played for RM. He had a number of full 80 minute games and most of those were at FB. I do not have my laptop with me and will only be able get you the info tonight.
01 May 2015, 12:41#27
As I said in my post he had only played at fullback 3 times up until the EOYT last year.
Round 1 of Top 14 = Came off bench to replace injured Winger (Audrin) Round 2 = Came off bench to replace Se*xtonRound 3 = Came off bench to replace Se*xtonRound 4 = Started at flyhalf, went off injured in the first halfRound 5 = Missed through injuryRound 6 = Came off bench to replace DumoulinRound 7 = Started at fullback (Dulin injured)Round 8 = Started at flyhalfRound 9 = Started at flyhalfRound 10 = Started at fullback (Dulin injured) Round 11 = Missed due to selection for Boks EOYTRound 12 = Started at flyhalfRound 13 = Missed through InjuryRound 14 = Missed through InjuryRound 15 = Missed through InjuryRound 16 = Missed through InjuryRound 17 = Started at flyhalf Round 18 = Came off bench to replace Se*xtonRound 19 = On bench and didn't playRound 20 = Started at fullback (Dulin with France)Round 21 = Came off bench to replace Se*xtonRound 22 = Came off bench to replace Se*xtonRound 23 = MissedRound 24 = Yet to be played
VerdictHe has played 3 full 80 minute matches at fullback in the Top 14, with two of those times happening before the EOYT.
01 May 2015, 12:53#28
Now on to the Heineken Cup replacement, the European champions cup.
Pool stage 1st game = Came off bench to replace Se*xton2nd game = Came off bench to replace Se*xton3rd game = Started at flyhalf4th game = Started at flyhalf5th game = Missed through injury6th game = Came off the bench for Dambielle
Quarter final = Came off the bench for Se*xton
VerdictDidn't play a single minute at fullback.
02 May 2015, 00:41#30
@Shezza. The reason why I wanted to get back to the spreadsheet did not only deal with the number of games that he played in the different positions. What I did was to compare his game time per position. It was done up and until round 21 of the current Top14 season. At that stage, Goosen has had a total of 538 minutes of game time with RM in the Top14. Of those 538 minutes, he had 240 minutes at FB and 298 minutes at FH. Feel free to check up on that. That is fairly close to 50/50.
02 May 2015, 01:39#31
What you've got to take into consideration is that 2/3 of his time spent at fullback was at the beginning of the season where he had played Approx 70 minutes at flyhalf before his first full 80 at fullback, no where near enough time to be judged on his abilities at flyhalf.
The intent of the coach is clear, he has versatility but he remains a flyhalf as shown by where he has played in his latest matches.
To help with your spreadsheet, he played 8 minutes at flyhalf in Round 21 and 22 minutes in the same position the following round.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 May 2015, 02:43#32
Cerdayne
With respect - 298 minutes represents 54,65% at flyhalf and 45,35% at full back. To make that 50:50 is stretching it substantially.
02 May 2015, 02:52#33
If he adds on the European champions cup the time ratio will likely increase to65-70 : 35-30
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 May 2015, 06:19#34
Oh boy...now you can't call 45 per cent of time played at fullback.....half his time at fullback. More petty thinking from Moronic.
Actually if you add the time he played fullback against Italy he has played a lot of the NH winter at fullback....his best shot at a Bok spot. But with the emergence of Kriel not likely.
02 May 2015, 10:27#35
@Shezza. Mate, you and your buddy Mike are masters at moving goal posts. You were the one who said that Goosen played 80% of his game time at FH. Your buddy said I was bullshitting when I said it was fairly close to 50%. I would like to know who was closer to the real ratio. Me with my fairly close to 50/50 or you with your 80/20.
In any case, if a few games at 15 places his game time, at 15, that close to 50% of total game time, it is just a further indication of Goosen's place in the pecking order of FHs at RM.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
02 May 2015, 12:23#36
Just a reminder Johan is 22.Great talent and I hope he is back in South Africa playing flyhalf for the Cheetahs - flyhalf being his best position.
02 May 2015, 12:31#37
If we want to take about moving goal posts then maybe we should add how you didn't even take into account the European Champions cup? Granted I got my prediction wrong for the ratio, but that's redundant when you realise how many times he played there compared to flyhalf. It's also quite clear that he was never picked there because that's where he's best suited, but for injury cover / utility.
The basis for the ratio is transparent, he played fullback 3 times compared to 16 times at flyhalf so your assumption that he was 3rd choice flyhalf was wrong and so was your assumption that he's played more full games at fullback.
And if you add in the time he played for the Boks against the World team.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
04 May 2015, 12:25#39
I think that Goosen is an option both at flyhalf and full back - so the two dunces (Mozart & Ceradyne) are barking up the wrong tree as is normal with them.
04 May 2015, 14:45#40
Poor Shezza. Are you so starved for attention that you have a need to keep on coming back for more? Let me remind you why I have not taken the European competition into account. The secret is contained in what I said earlier.
I have said clearly that I made the spreadsheet earlier and that it was only in respect of the Top14 up to round 21. The reason that I did it was because I wanted to check upon something for myself, during another discussion, at that time, i.e. around round 21 of the Top14. I did not do the spreadsheet to accommodate you and your wonky argument. The spreadsheet was done on 31 March. More than a month ago.
Let me remind you that you referred to "game time". When I gave you the info that I already had, you decided to discard game time and go back to numbers of games.
And then ou Maaikie barks back about Goosen being an option at flyhalf as well as at fullback. Big f'king deal. That was what I was eluding to the first time that I mentioned him as a possible fullback. Only difference is that at that stage he, Ou Maaikie, and yourself crapped in your best bloomers about my suggestion. You both maintained that Goosen was just behind Se.xton in the no 10 pecking order at RM. Seems that that is not really such a certainty.
