Another topic Sasue would not like - cricket News

 boklogic

Saffex is crazy.   We are discussing ODI's here - bit tests innings. In ODI's players gets one or two innings to get their eyes in and learn the pitch behaviour.  There after that player must score at 5-6 rpo.  

You cannot have a builder in that situation.   What often enough happen is that the partner gets one run from the first ball in an over, the builder fiddle around and get no runs from the next four balls and he result is 2 runs for that over.   The process is repeated the next over.   

The problem with Smith is 80% of the balls he faces is hit in one direction and the opposing teams clog up that area with fielders - and a ridiculously low run rate happens.   I have often seen field changes on the last ball of an over to allow for one run to be taken by Smith and then the situation is repeated in the next over.   He then ends up with the type of run rate I mentioned earlier - 72 runs from 201 balls.    That happened in 8 ODI's = ie 9 runs per innings at  rpo rate of just above 2.

What Saffex would not accept that in those 8 ODI's SA lost 7 and won 1.  He would not accept that you have to score at about 5-6 rpo to be competitive.  The fact that Smith score so slowly - put the lower order batters under serious pressure.   You only need another batter to do the same and then you have lost the match.

Builders essentially belong in test cricket where rpo's is not really important.   In ODI's a builder who is a slow run scorer has no place in the team.  What Saffex fails to realise is that Smith is not selected for the ODI team anymore exactly because of that problem. They tried him in four of the 11 ODI's we played recently and we lost 3 of those.   In the other 7 ODI's he was not selected and we won all 7 of those.   Smith was virtually the only team change made in those 7 ODI's - so where is the problem if it is not Smith? 

 boklogic

You have it 100% correct insofar as the technique problems of Smith is concerned. It has been discussed numerous times during matches by the commentators.

I am not sure about Amla though - my problem is that he is a bit out of form at present.

He technically is a good batter - but whether he should play T20 is debatable.   I think ODI's are fine.   In T20 you need the guys that has very good hand-eye co-ordination with the ability to hit balls out of the park.   Amla makes good runs - but he seldom hits a six.

By the way I agree about the poor ODI record of SA.   I think the problem remains - there are way too many test playing type of natters in our team.  Over the past few year we regularly have had Smith, Kallis and Duminy - basically sound test batters - in a line up consisting of 7 batters.  The other batters were often enough Petersen and Ingram.   Basically we only had De Villiers and sometimes Faf to make runs at the required run rate.   They lately brought in De Kock and Miller and that made a huge difference.   Whereas Kallis and Smith are really not in anymore - they need two more reliable and quick batters.  They tried a couple of other players - but I think all failed badly.

I like what I see of Rilee Rossouw and Reeza Hendricks.   Big hitters who do not go out early.  However - the race issue is always a problem in selection - but Hendricks is a Coloured - so that may count in his favour.

Personally I would like to see in ODI's the following line-up:-

*   Reeza Hendriks

*   Quinton de Kock (w/k)

*   Rilee Rossouw

*   AB de Villiers

*   David Miller

*   Faf du Plessis

*   J-P Duminy

*   Trevor Fillander

*   Dale Steyn

*   Morne Morkel

*   Lonwabo Tsotsobe

That team has the potential of being world beaters.   They should start with them soonest and have them ready for the WC in 2015. 

What they should avoid like a plague is to have the contributors to our dismal record past record in ODI's in the team in future.         

 Ceradyne

I have no problem with Smith as captain of the test team.   The issue of captaincy of the ODI team is not as easy as an application by him to be released from the captaincy p that is a face saver.   He may not be sacked - but his non-return to SA after a disastrous loss in the last WC in India - cased serious media problems for him and he was roundly criticized as running away and not facing the music.

That was followed by his replacement as captain.   However, there can be no argument about the ODI record of SA.  Where we are the top test team in world cricket - we were a one stage no 6 on the ODI rankings and is sill no 5.   That is just not acceptable.   We would have gone to no 3 - if it was not for the debacle in the first two ODI's against Pakistan in SA in November.   And Smith was in the team both times.  

I do not think that Smith is the answer at ODI level - his slow bating rate puts to much pressure on lower order batters who must always play catch up. to set a reasonable score.   Smith has not been selected against India in the recent series - he was in the squad - but was not in the team.  

I personally think Smith must forget about ODI's and only play test cricket.   Time to move on to new players and forget about players like Adams and Ingram as well.   They are not the answer and never has been the answer.   

Cape Town - Graeme Smith has apologised for not returning to South Africa following the Proteas' exit from the recent Cricket World Cup in India, but will continue as Test skipper.

Smith made the apology at a press conference on Sunday morning.

Smith, much to the anger of fans in South Africa, decided against returning home after the Proteas' quarter-final exit against New Zealand, and instead flew to Ireland to propose to his girlfriend, Morgan Deane.

Smith will marry Deane in August in Cape Town, before the Proteas take on Australia, starting in October.

Smith vowed to "work hard to get his form back in order to perform at his best" and has committed himself to the future of SA cricket and asked the fans for their support.

"With the benefit of hindsight, my decision to not return home directly after the World Cup should have been explained sooner," said Smith, reading from a prepared statement.

This was his first public appearance since the Proteas were skittled out of the World Cup by underdogs New Zealand who recorded a 49 run victory in the quarter-finals in Dhaka on March 25.

The team arrived home shortly after their shock defeat, minus their captain, as Smith, controversially, chose instead to go to Ireland to spend time with his pop singer girlfriend, now fiance, Morgan Deane.

While Cricket South Africa went to great lengths to say Smith had cleared the decision with them before the start of the tournament, it seemed an odd arrangement as the team were expected to reach the semi-final stage, if not the final, of the competition in what many people thought was South Africa's best chance of bringing home the trophy.

Apart from the home advantage the Indians and Sri Lankans enjoyed, no team stood out as favourites this time - unlike in the previous three tournaments that were dominated by the Australians.

"I know that my extended absence from South Africa has been the subject of much comment," said Smith.

"I apologise and make no excuses for it but I ask the South African fans to understand that I was feeling incredibly emotional at the time.

"What I did not take into account was the public's reaction to this decision."

Smith returned to India after his sojourn in Ireland for the Indian Premier League but sustained a knee injury in the second match of the tournament and was unable to work through it.

"Time is on my side to get fully fit," he said as the Proteas' next assignment is only in October against Australia, at home.

"Once the new coach is appointed, I will work to get back to my best physically, mentally and technically."

"I know the South African fans demand a lot from us and, as captain, I am held responsible. My captaincy means nothing unless I can back it up with my performance.

"I’m proud of what I've achieved as a player in the past and want to get back to that and I want to enjoy my cricket again."

Smith reiterated that he made what he considered the correct decision at the time when taking into account the disappointment and emotions he felt.

"I made the best decision at the time for where I was emotionally and in my personal life, but it's definitely understandable that the fans were disappointed."

Smith said there were exciting times ahead with a new coach being officially appointed on Monday, although the cat is already out of the bag in what is being termed "the worst kept secret in cricket".

Meanwhile, former Proteas' opener Gary Kirsten is expected to be named as the next Proteas coach following an Executive Council meeting of Cricket South Africa (CSA) on Monday.

Another former Proteas' great, Allan Donald, who turned down the chance to oversee New Zealand's bowlers, is expected to be named as one of Kirsten's assistants, alongside Warriors coach Russell Domingo.

I have not seen captain as devastated by an exit from a WC series likem GS was in 2011, in a long time. Go watch the clips, of the post match interviews, on ESPN. The  last time I saw a captain in such a state was Richie McCaw in 2007. It can only be a most professional and dedicated captain that would react like that, following such a  loss. 

 Ceradyne

Why this long article.  The issue has nothing to do with Smith's subsequent apology after the India fiasco.   It has nothing to do with the poor run rate and resultant loss of the SA team in the quarters  either. It has nothing to do with the discussions after the match either.

It has everything to do with Smiths form over the past year in ODI's and whether he should continue to play for SA  in that format of the game.    There is not one word said about his captaincy of the test team and continued participation in that format of the game.   Nobody in his right senses would argue that he should not continue as a test cricketer.  

This discussion started of with the issue of T20 cricket and the selection of a eam in that format of the game.   Whilst Smith and Kallis is not in the squad for T20 selection - I left them out of the list of top performers in the domestic competition and the realistic selections based on that.   Saffex wanted to have a seizure because I left out Smith form that format of the game and it dragged on - becoming an issue of ODI's.

You missed the point completely about the following quotation:-

"And Smith was in the team both times." .........as were 10 other players. "

Lets look at recent history.

*   Smith opens the batting in the first 2 away ODI's in the Gulf States against Pakistan.   In both cases he batted slowly and ineffectively making in the 2 ODI's 35 runs from 59 balls.   The first ODI we won by a whisker (one run with a problematically low score of 183 runs0) - the second one we lost badly.

*   Only one change is made to the team for the next three ODI's.   Smith is replaced by De Kock and we beat the  comprehensively.

*   Back in SA against the same team and the only team changes for the ODI's are Smith and Kallis.   Both failed in the batting and we lost the first ODI badly.

*   That is followed by the 2nd ODI.   Again Smith failed but Kallis made 50 runs taking 90 balls to make it.  Too slow a run rate an we lost the ODI.

*   Last ODI against Pakistan - Smith the only tam change - and w won the ODI.

*   ODI's against India - Smith Is out and we beat India by huge margins. 

You could spread the blame to all players - but the  above indicates clearly where the real problem was.  The omission of Smith caused a complete turnaround in team performances.   If it happened once - it was no argument - but it happened repeatedly.

CHICKEN shit please do us a favour and refrain from commenting on cricket........its bad enough having to endure your pathetic ignorance and stupidity when it comes to rugby but your takes on cricket is just something no reader should have to put up with.

You are too fucking stupid to comment on anything

For the record, Faf is a dasher and that is a FACT

If you fucking wake up for once and read what I posted........you will find that I mentioned the fact that dashers at times, need to build as Faf and AB do in the Test arena

Now fuck off you ignorant worthless twat  

Ceradyne

You must be excruciating stupid.   12 runs from 16 balls represents  FAILURE by an opening batter.   Same applies to 50 runs off 90 balls - in tests wonderful,  in ODI's very problematic.   That means that nearly a third of all balls to be bowled are utilized to score 50 runs.   Not good enough.   In any event - this is about  Smith not Kallis - doos.  

You carry on as if you try to counter my arguments about Smith performing poorly in ODI's and produced nothing at all - just your standard bullshit.   In the recent series just tell me one thing - how come we are basically guaranteed to lose games when Smith is in the ODI team and won with ease if he is not?

Then also give me one good reason why Smith should be in the team ahead of De Kock.  

Lastly nobody but you on this site is idiotic.  Don't tell us that for an opener to score 12 runs from 16 balls is a huge success story.   

Vlag, its dasher, not basher.......there is a difference.........basher would be a Klusner and to some extent Miller.

I also pointed out in my post that dashers like AB or Faf are able to build and builders like Smith and Kallis are also able to dash when circumstances dictate.

But in essence my point was that an ODI batting line up should comprise at least 2 builders who's responsibility it is to try bat through the innings....ie a Smith, Amla or Kallis.

But as you say its not and exact science.......but I was trying to explain to DomMike that an ODI side needs a builder or two.

That's cricket and why you should have another 2 builders in the line-up

Saffex and Ceradyne

I noted your dubious support for the Sa ODI team.   We are ranked 5 in the world - way below where we should be - and you support all out the players that got us there and will keep us there.

Fiune supporters - you are.

 Ceradyne

You obviously are not a supporter of SA when world wide championships are held = hence you cannot identify why we have slipped so badly in the ratings.

Smith's captaincy situation has zero to do with it.   The reason basically is that we keep playing test cricket players in the ODUI squad - the chief culprit being Graeme Smith.   Other countries have completely different ODI squads from the test side and the players are specially selected for the purpose. 

In SA we try and make test players ODI players and most of them cannot adjust witgh a result that there are serious flops in the system that needs to be corrected.      

Every time that you start debating anything about cricket, you expose yourself. I am not saying that I am an expert on every thing about cricket, but there are a  lot that you do not understand. You clearly have no understanding of the role of the captain in cricket. I am one hell of a AB fan but we have suffered in quite a number of ODI because of his captaincy. He is learning but he still does not seem to be able to always get his field placings spot-on. In addition he battles to sort out his bowlers and when and how to use them. Just a few remarks regarding this. In any case, I am sure that you would try and find  something else about Smith to piss about.

Sas you have to love this........if confirmation of stupidity was ever required - here we have CHICKEN commenting on cricket again.....wow.

A wise man would have kept his gob shut ages ago........but not this stupid prick

I bet you know more about the g ame than this baboon