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Bok team for this weekend

Started by Chippo53 REPLIES1,009 VIEWS· 05 Aug 2015, 11:48
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CH
Chippo
Pro3,372 posts
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
05 Aug 2015, 11:48
#1
05 Aug 2015, 11:48#1
Check here: http://www.ruckersforum.com/news/springbok-team-announcement-boks-vs-argentina

The Bok Starting XV is:
15 Willie le Roux (Toyota Cheetahs) 27 Tests, 40 points
14 Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls), 2, 10
13 Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Stormers), 106, 135
12 Damian de Allende (DHL Stormers), 5, 0
11 Bryan Habana (Toulon), 108, 285
10 Handré Pollard (Vodacom Bulls), 11, 85
9 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster), 82, 135
8 Schalk Burger (vice-captain, DHL Stormers) 77, 70
7 Marcell Coetzee (Cell C Sharks), 27, 30
6 Heinrich Brüssow (Toyota Cheetahs), 21, 5
5 Lood de Jager (Toyota Cheetahs), 11, 10
4 Eben Etzebeth (DHL Stormers), 35, 5
3 Vincent Koch (DHL Stormers), 1, 0
2 Bismarck du Plessis (Cell C Sharks), 72, 45
1 Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 66, 10
Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss (Vodacom Bulls), 46, 25
17 Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls), 14, 5
18 Marcel van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls), 5, 0
19 Pieter-Steph du Toit (Cell C Sharks), 2, 0
20 Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers), 10, 0
21 Cobus Reinach (Cell C Sharks), 8, 10
22 Pat Lambie (Cell C Sharks), 42, 106
23 Lwazi Mvovo (Cell C Sharks), 11, 15


BO
bobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
05 Aug 2015, 11:54
#2
05 Aug 2015, 11:54#2
Yo Chippo, ya slapgat slow.
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Aug 2015, 11:59
#3
05 Aug 2015, 11:59#3
Good  team...poor bench.
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:04
#4
05 Aug 2015, 12:04#4
My thoughts exactly Denny! I love the look of that back line...excluding Pienaar! Glad PSDT is getting a run off the bench. We need him to play well so that they see there is no need for Matfield. PSDT, Etzebeth and Lood will do just fine. 
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:24
#5
05 Aug 2015, 12:24#5
 I'm not a Pienaar fan but I must admit to him putting in a much better performance in the last test. Meyer is showing great flexibility with his starting lineup. My hopes are waxing.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:41
#6
05 Aug 2015, 12:41#6
 Not much different from what I expected.  I said all along that De Villiers will not play at 12 - he prefers to play at 13 outside of De Allende - has always done that when Useless De Jongh was not available at 13.
So lets look a bit further.  
Moving to Kriel to 14 is no problem.  Pienaar the passive is not going to ignite any backline.  I would have liked to have seen Du preez playing a game or two before the WC - but that is now unlikely to happen.   Without having played any games for more than 5 months and with his history of fitness deficiency and injury it would be a huge gamble to select him for the RWC squad.
I expected Coetzee to be back at 7 - a team cannot do with a hardworking unit like him..   Selection of  Fat Willem would have been a travesty =- we need a functioning player - not a loafing one.
I think Marcel van der Merwe was called up since Malherbe is not \available this week.  I said he was off four two weeks and that would have made him available next week.   
The rest of the bench is acceptable - an improvement on the previous two tests, especially with P-S du Toit in the mix.
The backline bench players is the best available - we have a serious problem on wing and I believe Meyer is not there yet   Greatly  relieved that the bumbling Morne Steyn is not in the team for the day.    We need to win the game - not donate it to the Argentinians like Morne tried to do last year.     
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:46
#7
05 Aug 2015, 12:46#7

Wow imagine being stupid enough to break up the de Allende/Kriel combo.


Why no Kitshoff on the bench?


Meyer as utterly useless as ever

MO
moolaa
Pro2,380 posts
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:47
#8
05 Aug 2015, 12:47#8
 Weak at halfback and flyhalf. Meyer needs to give Lambie some serious time at 10 before the RWC. What if the average Pollard gets injured and Lambie has had very little game time?
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:51
#9
05 Aug 2015, 12:51#9
 Moo - weak at 10....what are you smoking?
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:51
#10
05 Aug 2015, 12:51#10
Denny, he did have a good game against the AB's, but with 20 chances to pin the tail on the donkey, eventually you'll stick it in the right place. We should have been giving Faf a go, because Reinach has been useless in the Bok jersey, Du Preez is in no man's land, and Hougard is not even in the picture. So on top of the fact that Pienaar has had one good game in the last, however many, what happens if he gets injured? Meyer has missed a trick here. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 12:58
#11
05 Aug 2015, 12:58#11
 Bluebok
I think that Meyer intended to play Du Preez in this game - but Du Preez has not as yet being fit enough to play - I doubt whether he would play any games before the WC.  How does CC put it iro Pienaar "sorry I forgot to switch the lights on"  That is a very apt description of the player.     
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:01
#12
05 Aug 2015, 13:01#12
 Have to agree BB....I'm a Faf man. Pienaar is a very neutral scrummie at best.
KM
Ka Mate
Club Pro246 posts
KM
Ka MateClub Pro246 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:04
#13
05 Aug 2015, 13:04#13
Not a team to send a shiver of fear through the All Blacks or anyone else for that matter.

I disagree with the general sentiment regarding the weak bench. Several players on the bench who should be starting, especially Lambie who is one of the few Yarpies with real talent in place of the very average Pollard. I'm with moolaa on this one. Pollard is hugely overated and all the Yarpie criticism of Lambie is puzzling to say the least. Not that I'm complaining. I'd much rather see Pollard (or even better M Steyn) running out as the starting flyhalf in the RWC semi against the Mighty All Blacks.

Vamos Los Pumas!!!!!!!
DE
Denny
Captain12,893 posts
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:07
#14
05 Aug 2015, 13:07#14
 Mike....do you rate Reinach, Mvovo and Kolisi?
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:12
#15
05 Aug 2015, 13:12#15
Back-line looks ok. Lambie should get some game time from the bench as he needs it as does du Toit. I don't rate Kolisi & Mvovo is fine on attack but not so good on defence if I remember correctly.
Boks should win as it is a home game & Pumas aren't that strong. I can almost hear the Bok fans crowing already . 

AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:34
#16
05 Aug 2015, 13:34#16
 a full strenght bok side,....... appart from some injuries, Vermeulen and........ and the rest of the injuries, Jannie, Matfield, Alberts, FdP, are positives,......... so a full strenght side to face an Argie B side,....... let see what they can do,........ or what they cannot
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 13:57
#17
05 Aug 2015, 13:57#17
 ABF
The absence of Matfield and Alberts are blessings in disguise and the jury is ou on Fourie du Preez.  Malherbe will be back too and he annihilated the NZ props in Super 15 - so we will be happy with his return and the NZ props will not be.      
PA
Pakie
Captain17,321 posts
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
05 Aug 2015, 14:09
#18
05 Aug 2015, 14:09#18
The "average" Pollard broke the All Black line almost at will two weeks ago. But, I would have given the average Lambie a start since he looks for all money to be our backup WC flyhalf and some time on the field won't do him any harm.
BL
Blikkies
Pro1,526 posts
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
05 Aug 2015, 14:40
#19
05 Aug 2015, 14:40#19

So what has Jesse done wrong  to be shifted to 14? Jean should have been on the bench.

 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 14:50
#20
05 Aug 2015, 14:50#20

Exactly Blikkies.......another pathetic call by Meyer


Jean's lack of pace will be exposed at 13  

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2015, 14:56
#21
05 Aug 2015, 14:56#21

By the time the WC comes around Jean will shift to 12. I have never seen Jean play a really good test at 13. Allende will be helped enormously by having Jean define the defensive line though. Kriel should be getting more time at 13, but will be fine on the wing.

 

 

It's going to be make or break for Koch....a huge ask given he wasn't exactly convincing against the ABs.

 

 

Kolisi makes his ceremonial appearance on the bench.

 

 

And Stephanie arrives after surviving 40 minutes of rugby. Surely even if you believe in this young chap he cant be ready for a test? This would never, ever happen in NZ. It's an emotional decision not a professional one.

 

 

And then there is Marcel. Damn! After scrumming like a palooka all S15, this utterly hopeless tighthead makes the 23. Time for the stand up and belly dance routine.

 

 

I'm glad to see HM has not used Pollard's concusssion as a  reason to give Lambie a free run against the impotent Bargies. We need to commit to Pollard as our WC 10 and not confuse the issue.

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 15:25
#22
05 Aug 2015, 15:25#22
 Du Toit may not be ready for the heat - but Matfield at present never is.   Du Toit will not be loafing in the backline hoping a tackle comes his way.   If Matfield is selected it would be anything but a professional decision.
As to De Villiers moving to 12 - there is very little chance of that.   De Allende will remain at 12 and he won't be move from there unless he gets injured.   De Villiers is not a better 12 than De Allende is - the latter is physically a much stronger player and must stronger in ball carries.    The reason why De Villiers did not well in the 2012 tests because he was outside the clueless and stagnant Steyns.   A better flyhalf and inside center than the Steyns were would add value to De Villiers and result in better performance by him.

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 15:30
#23
05 Aug 2015, 15:30#23

Ah here we have the scrum guru telling us Marcel was hopeless all S15 - another lie


Koch and Marcel are improvements on Jannie


Seems clueless Meyer has learnt his lesson re useless Heinke v/d Merwe, but I would not count on it  

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2015, 20:48
#24
05 Aug 2015, 20:48#24
Ah the scrum expert who was always telling us how great Werner Kruger, Mellett And Greyling were....and who had Chili as a rising star. You were horribly wrong in all those cases and you are wrong again about Marcel. The man is a scrumming disaster, even at S15 level.
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:07
#25
05 Aug 2015, 21:07#25
Very weak defensively in the centres, we're going to struggle on attack if Argies show up for this test! Very weak bench. Otherwise not bad. I just don't get why Kriel must move. He has been the only success at centre this year! Damian should be going on the wing or be dropped. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:16
#26
05 Aug 2015, 21:16#26
 Why was Kriel moved?  Because they needed to find a place for De Villiers and Meyer would not move the best 12 at present in world rugby from that position.      
DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:27
#27
05 Aug 2015, 21:27#27
 So we have a 12 who isn't a 12, a 13 who isn't a 13, and a 14 who isn't a wing... great! And if Reinach and Lambie come on, a wing at 9 and 15 at 10. Could this be any more bizarre?
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:37
#28
05 Aug 2015, 21:37#28
 It can' t be as bizarre as your thinking on De Allende is.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:40
#29
05 Aug 2015, 21:40#29
Moz I see you are childishly resorting to the old Werner Kruger tune again....how pathetic. Firstly I never had him as a starter and secondly I conceded I was wrong about him.
How many more times do I fucking have to repeat this....is it an age thing that has you incapable of grasping this fact?
I said very little about Greyling.
Marcel was good all S15 and ripped Woodcock to shreds when he opposed him for the Boks.....so keep up your scrum ignorance....nothing changes....hell you were a BJ Botha fan as a starter. I rest my case.
There is nothing wrong with Mellett....not that I have EVER touted him as a Bok.
I'll say it again you know stuff all about props.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
05 Aug 2015, 21:52
#30
05 Aug 2015, 21:52#30
Y our knowledge of props begins and ends with the dainty sticks that prop up the rotund chassis of the hippos you select. Nuff said matey
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2015, 22:46
#31
05 Aug 2015, 22:46#31

Actually Dave I dont really worry about what you say about props....not one prop you picked is a Bok success yet.

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 22:52
#32
05 Aug 2015, 22:52#32
Um I picked Beast and Jannie years ago.....did the same with Steenkamp and CJ.
Todays brand has better prospects in Kitshoff, Coenie, Malherbe, Marcel v/d Merwe, Koch, Nyakane, Thomas du Toit and Ollie Kebble.....take your pick here as test quality props.....all as good, some better than Steenkamp, CJ, Beast and Jannie at the same age.
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
05 Aug 2015, 23:04
#33
05 Aug 2015, 23:04#33

CJ was a flop. I never recall you being particularly for the Beast.....I do recall you wanting Steenkamp instead of the Beast at one point.

 

 

Really Dave what have you ever got right....by which I mean a player who is a  long term Bok success, who wasn't concensus like Etzebeth.

 

 

Hordes of names....nobody where you were right and the concensus was wrong. Feel free to provide examples if you think I' m wrong.

DE
DezertFox
Pro2,288 posts
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
05 Aug 2015, 23:10
#34
05 Aug 2015, 23:10#34
He wanted Gurthro until he got good, then it was someone else! 
In 2008 everything was Mujati. How did he feel about Eddie Andrews? Deon Carstens? I think I recall a Dave stamp of approval. 
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Aug 2015, 23:21
#35
05 Aug 2015, 23:21#35
Bullshit CJ was not a flop he was far better than your pick BJ Botha was a real flop.
Fuck me I have been a Beast fan for the past decade.....nope I never wanted Steenkamp ahead of him, it was always a close call between the two......stop making things up man.
You seem to confuse my list of names with actual starters......because I name a squad it does not mean every one of them is going to be a starter.
My calls go as far back to John Smit playing for the Baby Boks....I've made calls on every incumbent Bok for the past decade....bar a few useless picks like Morne Steyn.
You mention Etzebeth for instance......I made the call on him long before you lot even knew who he was.......its worthless speaking of the current older guard like Habana, JP, Jean, Bakkies and co.....for while they were all calls made by me, I'm hardly in a position to evidence that.
I've made calls on Kitshoff, Malherbe, Marcel, Etzebeth, Lood, PSDT, Coetzee, Arno Botha, du Plessis, Kolisi, Faf, Pollard, Goosen, de Allende, Kriel, Serfontein, Willie etc.......one can hardly define their test careers right now......in particular when we have a useless coach who does not select them. 


sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
05 Aug 2015, 23:54
#36
05 Aug 2015, 23:54#36
Probably close to  the strongest team that we can field barring injuries. 
Devilliers at outside centre makes it possible to still play Jessie Kriel and Delande giving them more experience. 
Even if all 3 are not on the field for all matches combining with Jean they are sure to learn allot. Jean at outside centre might be a better organiser of defence. 

JP is hopelessly out of form. He may not be worthy of a starting position. So their is a wing spot open with Habana on the other wing, with Leroux at 15. 
Good to see Koch start. He looks like he is keen to run onto the ball, and he is a good scrummager. His work rate is very high for a prop. He looks fit, professional and really motivated.
He is my call for a dark horse standout at the world cup. It is between him and Jannie for a starting position. I would prefer Koch starting as he brings more energy to the team than the tired warhorse who will be good off the bench for the important scrums at the end of the match. 
Not sure why Marcel is on the bench. It is debateable if he is even Super XV standard. In the little Bok time he has had he has somehow done even less. 
Kolisi is a decent player but he could up his work. 
He is a small player that does not add anything to the breakdown. A small number 7 playing in the 6 position because he is too small for number 7, and lacks the skills and scrumming ability for a number 8
sharkbok
sharkbok
Captain23,282 posts
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,282 posts
05 Aug 2015, 23:56
#37
05 Aug 2015, 23:56#37
In terms of identifying talent watching the Baby Boks Under 18 and Under 21 teams- is hardly talent spotting. The standout players will probably become Spring Boks . 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Aug 2015, 00:25
#38
06 Aug 2015, 00:25#38

BJ was better than CJ and proved it when he fixed our scrum against Ireland on the YE tour in 2009. Still neither were long term Boks.

 

So really all we have to work with is your list of current players. You were slow on Pollard touting Goosen and Swiel , slow on Willie.....I'll give you Etzebeth but everybody got that. Everybody has gotten Kriel. Allende wasn't your man that was Stepfontein and JJ until this season. Marcel is useless, Malherbe was cracked by the Aussie scrum, Kitshoff looks good but hasnt proved that at test level, Arno hopeless now, Coetzee a journeyman but I'll concede that point still has to be proven, Faf was poor in the match against the Stormers, probably not a test scrummie with that boot, Kolisi is pathetic, Goosen is a train wreck, Serfontein a nothing.

 

 

So lets sum up....your only proven success stories at test level are Etzebeth, Willie, Pollard, maybe Kriel, and maybe Coetzee. But you were slow on Pollard, slow on Willie....behind the concensus. And while I dont rate Coetzee he was in the mix early...as was Etzebeth. Pretty much everybody rated Kriel and some were calling for him to replace JJ....not you.

 

So where's the beef?

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Aug 2015, 00:47
#39
06 Aug 2015, 00:47#39
 oimatey

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1498 RE: Has Jan Serfontein done much in his 2 tests?
June 26, 2014, 15:16:40

Moz who would you have at 12 for the Scotland test?



  • 0 Likes
mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12700 RE: Has Jan Serfontein done much in his 2 tests?
June 26, 2014, 15:22:08

In order Jean, Frans, De Allende....but they are not available. So I would play Stepfontein. There is literally nobody else. But I don't think this kid is going to do much in the test arena. 


Edit post
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Aug 2015, 01:06
#40
06 Aug 2015, 01:06#40

Just demonstrate the consistency of my position. Here is an example of yours.....so many flops. the rest concensus picks, no value added.

 


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 13026 Given how good CJ Stander has been
August 30, 2012, 00:26:17

Meyer has missed a trick by not including him. Talk about being out of tune - hell CJ could have won a cap, thereby securing his future services as a Bok instead of potentially losing him to Ireland.

Given his form and the fact that the Bok loose trio has been poor, why on earth not select CJ Stander ahead of the clueless Jaques Potgieter.

Meyer is taking us nowehere with his unimaginative squad. Hell it would not have taken much to improve on his poor selection and had a side along the lines of the following taking on Oz:

15. Lambie 14. Jordaan 13. JJ Engelbrecht 12. Frans 11. Mvovo 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Coetzee 7. CJ Stander 8. Vermeulen 16. Pienaar 17. Habana 18. Jean 19. Kitshoff 20. Fourie 21. Flip 22. Daniel

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