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Boks MVP so far?

Started by oimatey22 REPLIES354 VIEWS· 08 Oct 2015, 22:00
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OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:00
#1
08 Oct 2015, 22:00#1
As a Bok fan, you have to feel good about where the team is at right now. The crucible of losing that first match has forged a team that is back to its direct, physical best with just enough touch and guile to pull off the unexpected. The script is playing out as most of us believed it would post-Japan and momentum has built nicely even though it much be acknowledged it has been against a misfiring Samoa and Scotland / US teams missing starters but roles are clearly defined much more so than before the WC as players have played their way into good form and the only real question marks as to who will start is at 2 and 5. NZ seems out of sorts and has yet to really hit their dominant best (pending the Tonga game) and Australia may well have peaked too early with England being their best game. 
But which one player has played the biggest part in this galvanizing success over the past three games?
Pollard
FDPSchalkLoodEbenWillieDDAHabanaJP
A lot of good candidates, but my vote would go to FDP. Quick accurate error-free service but more than that he dictates the tempo and direction of our attack more than anyone. Doesn't hurt that he understands Bok DNA and knows exactly what it takes for us to be successful.
Several "close seconds"
  
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:01
#2
08 Oct 2015, 22:01#2
 I'd also go with FPP, closely followed by our two wingers Habana/JP
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:09
#3
08 Oct 2015, 22:09#3
U p front Schalk and in the backs like Deddy. If Lood starts against Wales and stands tall I'll put him in that bracket. Best overall player? Hard to say. I don't think anyone has really been that pivotal right now. Probably Du Preez comes closest though. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:10
#4
08 Oct 2015, 22:10#4
 FdP did not have a good game last night, but still better than Pienaar....and then some. Our best player under Snorre and Snake. Player, not only 9. Eben will be very difficult to replace, but Thor is our best player. Not there yet, but the signs are there.Habana is crucial too. Jury is still out on DdA, but the Boks should utilise him bettèr.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:17
#5
08 Oct 2015, 22:17#5
Schalk was my first runner up. I think his all round game is better now than it was when he won POY. His linking/passing  game is magical and no one outworks him. If the Boks end up winning the whole thing I could see him being a front runner for that again.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:26
#6
08 Oct 2015, 22:26#6
 What strikes me is that when the Boks start to run the ball there is some serious talent there.We just need to grow in confidence on attack. Nobody should underestimate Kriel at 13. He has it all and will get better and better.
Also we must try Jaco Kriel at 6 some time after the RWC - even if its just off the bench.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:37
#7
08 Oct 2015, 22:37#7
du Preez was good against Scotland but poor against the Yanks.
Lood has stood tall as has Etzebeth.
In the backs DA and Pollard have provided the thrust.
I want to see more of the attacking Willie and less of the kicking one. Clearly playing under instruction to kick which is a shame.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Oct 2015, 22:55
#8
08 Oct 2015, 22:55#8
MVP is not a list - pick one !
FDP was excellent against Samoa and Scotland when we needed it the most. US game, not as good but he didn't need to be.
Lood has proven me wrong this year - last year he lacked consistency as his best game was the first but his performances fell off as the year went on and since he was hurt for the majority of this years Super 15 I expected much the same. But not so this year where he has put together a string of good games. 

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
08 Oct 2015, 23:01
#9
08 Oct 2015, 23:01#9
 FDPLoodPollardHabana
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Oct 2015, 23:49
#10
08 Oct 2015, 23:49#10
 Etzebeth 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 00:04
#11
09 Oct 2015, 00:04#11
 I would accept Du Preez as number 1 - but the real change that made a difference was the lock combination of De Jager and Etzebeth giving our Tight 5 the necessary competitiveness.   Without that our backline - and also Du Preez - would be doomed.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Oct 2015, 02:49
#12
09 Oct 2015, 02:49#12
Habana  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:26
#13
09 Oct 2015, 03:26#13
I don't think people fully understand how much JP and Habana bolster the squad. Even from kickoffs and restarts they take away options for the opposition. JP in particular has been a pleasant surprise so far. Habana is always good, got a raw deal in the media taking flak for Bleater dom Failures flawed coaching. 
I think overall, the team is greater than the sum of its parts, so for that reason I think it's particularly hard to choose an MVP at this point. Lood is replaceable. Pollard is replaceable. Even Willie is replaceable to an extent. Both centres are replaceable. Du Preez is the brains, and even though Paige showed good ability to distribute, Du Preez takes charge of our forwards. Without him we lose a huge part of our game and our backs become less effective. Scrumhalf is the more crucial position for SA. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:42
#14
09 Oct 2015, 03:42#14
 DF
You mentioned 5 players being replacable and in that case targets the 2 MOM of the latest two tests played by the Springboks.  With respect who would you think should replace the said 4 players?  
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:44
#15
09 Oct 2015, 03:44#15
The urgency and commitment within the team has improved 10 fold, particularly in Habana and JP. The massive improvements that has clearly assisted in the momentum shift is the tight 5 dominance (brought about by the EXCLUSION of Vikki), ensuring attackers getting smashed backwards and crossing the advantage line with relative ease in attack, this has allowed our back row to shine.  As all have agreed, the inclusion of FDP has had a massive effect on proceedings. I for one was skeptical on his inclusion due to injury and lack of game time. Thank God I was wrong. We desperately need FDP to remain fit throughout to have any chance.
The Springboks are in a good place.  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 03:47
#16
09 Oct 2015, 03:47#16
Possible replacements:
Morne for PollardSerfontein/Pollard for DamianSerfontein/JP for KrielVic for Lood (Alberts as primary carrier)Lamebie/Kriel/Kirchner for Willie
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:02
#17
09 Oct 2015, 04:02#17
 DF
Sorry to disagree, but all the changes would to my mind be a disaster for the Springbok team.  The worst possible selections would be Morne and Matfield for different reasons and the others are just marginally better - but still seriously deficient.   Should not have asked the question - I could have written the answer out myself.     
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:15
#18
09 Oct 2015, 04:15#18
Pollard would probably be a better 12 than Damian. More physical, ane infinitely superior defender and more courageous. Having a kicking 12 is also very useful. New Zealand hounded Nonu to improve his kicking. The best teams nearly always have this. Serf is again more physical and a more assured defender. More importantly he reads play better, much more intelligent than Damian. His ability to read play and under our systems should make him a prime candidate to replace Jean, as he fulfills that organizational role on defence.

Lambie is a fullback by nature. And as much as I have castigated him, he is very good in the air. To my mind the best of all our fullbacks under the high ball. I like this option for the knockout rounds. Having a 15 that can petrol the backfield can allow our 10-12-13 to apply more pressure by blitzing. Having a guy like Vic in cover defence further bolsters that. Kirchner is more like another centre joining the line. Not a playmaker but can create when joining the line. Good all round game. Kriel is a fullback, so that ends that discussion. 
Vic is more dynamic than Lood. We lose Loods carries, but we don't need him as a primary carrier. It remains to be seen how Meyer uses Lood against Wales, maybe he will become more integral. Having him martial the middle of the field with our other heavies has changed our defence a bit, but this change overall is not a bad one. Vic is the more versatile player and contributes significantly in his own right. 
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
09 Oct 2015, 04:43
#19
09 Oct 2015, 04:43#19
DF,Do we need a LOCK to contribute in tight 5 or do we need a LOCK that can tackle on the wing?? FFS man, what ya smokin or sniffin?  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:14
#20
09 Oct 2015, 05:14#20
 I will five you reasons for my statement about the reasons why I say it would be poor:-
Morne Steyn
Unlike you may think - there are serious deficiencies in the performances of Morne.   Morne is very frail in defense.   He is also very poor in execution - other than kicking at goal and his decision-making has basically a joke.   Morne is robotic and must be informed in advance of what should be done in given circumstances.  Take the case of Nessam's second try at Ellis Park in 2013 - instead of a relieving kick seconds before the ending of the first half of the game - Morne (told in advance not to kick balls away in the case of possession turnovers) passed the ball on and caused a major problem which resulted in a turnover - leading to a try t minute 42 in the first half of the test. 
Last year in the tests h played in he made serious decision mistakes and fab execution that could have disastrous consequences for the team in the Argentinian tests  and caused us the loss of the Perth test.
Morne when playing a poor gamer - which happens far too frequently - is very poor.  He is just not reliable enough for the World Cup tournament.
Moving Pollard to center 
This is nor advisable.  To move a player to a position where he has not played for 2 years in a vital test match purely because you on your own is against a player is really questionable.              

I have not come across any person other than yourself and the defective Mozart who shares your opinion on  De Allende - whether they are ex-players, present players or recognized experts in rugby.
Serfontein
Although is a reasonably good defender - his performance in attacking play is questionable if compared with De Allande,
JP at 13
This change has been tried repeatedly since 2012 by the Sharks and even on test level and was always a failure frpom both  defensive and attacking perspective.
Matfield and Alberts
The problem with Matfield is his lack of grunt - which reduces the Springboks Tight 5 to a Tight 4. To put in a loosie to restore parity in the Tight 5 is really funny.  This venture has never worked - sincr Albert is not a good enough loosie to be in the team as a loosie - he is seriously pace-deficient and miss far too many tackles as a result of that deficiency and he played no role in breakdown ball protection and recovery as non-existent since he arrive at breakdowns too late to do anything substantial in such circ umstances.   Alberts has a reputation as a ball carrier that the rputation has petered out completely.   
This type of thing never work.  You have a deficient lock without grunt and you add a loosie who is not up to standard as a  loosie.  Can never work.
Matfield 
Matfield is a good line-out jumper - but not better than players like De Jager and Du Toit.  His major problem he as a lock is worth zero in Tight 5 play.  To weaken our Tight 5 to accommodate Matfield will be suicidal.          


     
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
09 Oct 2015, 05:31
#21
09 Oct 2015, 05:31#21
Morné is anything but robotic. He is our best decision making, even now. Offers a more controlled game to Pollard's aggressive bluntness. Morné is a proven match winner and has proven himself to be a very good defender. That's all there is to it. 
JP at 13 is not my preferred option and I clearly stated that the past four years, but he has not been our worst 13; defensively he sits in third place overall. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Oct 2015, 11:14
#22
10 Oct 2015, 11:14#22
 
There aren't many scrummies worse than Pienaar. Anyone of a 100 would have made a big difference to Pienaar.

Faf would have been better than the aging Du Preez.

It's time the aging Du Preez retires.

Morne is a kicking 10. He plays Bulls style rugby. Not much of a thinker. Strategy isn't a strong point. Can't defend his channel and the opposition know it.

He can't even make his French side's starting line up.

Regarding Matfield ... one needs more than a jolly jumper in your side. There are other aspects of play where a complete lock is needed.

Both Eben and Lood have surpassed Matfield in general play and have easily matched in the lineouts. Why bother with him?

Alberts is a powerhouse alright. Problem is that it takes him a week to cross from one side of the field to the other and that renders him useless. Powerhouse or not.




DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
10 Oct 2015, 12:36
#23
10 Oct 2015, 12:36#23
Morné already showed us his ability to get the outside backs away in his past test. Three perfect try scoring opportunities. A brilliant dart at the line. How many times has Lambie done that? The key difference between Morné and Pollard is that Pollard wants contact, but he has already started tempering his game to be more effective. Morné has been outstanding in Paris, had a slow start but went from stength to strength.
Du Preez is the most complete and greatest scrumhalf there has ever been. Nobody comes remotely close to him, especially in SA. We have our weakest crop of 9s I have ever seen, all wings and not very good ones at that. Faf may be a good test 9, there is only one way to find out, but he is a little raw. 
— END OF THREAD —

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