FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  'Disgust' at referee Craig Joubert for not using TMO for penalty that Scotland dearly; NZ Herald

'Disgust' at referee Craig Joubert for not using TMO for penalty that Scotland dearly; NZ Herald

Started by Just_win20 REPLIES1,367 VIEWS· 18 Oct 2015, 20:25
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Oct 2015, 20:25
#1
18 Oct 2015, 20:25#1
The decision by referee Craig Joubert not to use the TMO appears to have denied Scotland a famous quarter-final win over Australia at the Rugby World Cup. The South African referee awarded an offside penalty against Scotland in the final minute when the ball bounced forward off the shoulder of Scotland reserve Josh Strauss and was then handled by teammate Jon Welsh.

Hastings tweeted: "If I see referee Craig Joubert again I am going to tell him how disgusted I am. It was disgraceful that he ran off the pitch like that at the end. The referee is not expected to make the right decision al the time. That's what the TMO system is in place for. This is the quarter-final of a rugby World Cup. This is the highest end of our sport and they have to get these decisions right."

A bitterly disappointed captain Greig Laidlaw said: "They go to the TMO for everything else...why not go for the TMO for that?"

Australian coach Michael Cheika thought it was the right call.

"It's a penalty and that's the way it works," he said.

"It works both ways in all games and that's life. You've still got to kick it once you get it."

Once again, Joubert and Australian No. 10 Foley have provided a one-two controversial punch - it was Joubert's call against the the Crusaders Richie McCaw, widely condemned, and Foley's last-gasp goal which saw the Waratahs to a 2014 Super Rugby final victory.

Joubert was also the referee in the 2011 World Cup final, where many felt France were on the wrong side of many decisions in the one point loss to the All Blacks.

The Wallabies were the overwhelming favourites heading into the match but trailing at halftime and behind in the dying seconds at the match at Twickenham.

An uncharacteristically sloppy showing from the Wallabies, who played fast and loose and made far too many handling errors, helped Scotland take a 16-15 halftime lead.

But the controversial sin-binning of Scottish winger Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock-on in the 42nd minute proved pivotal in the contest, with Australia crossing immediately through Mitchell to snatch a lead which they wouldn't give back.

However, despite escaping with a win, Wallabies coach Michael Cheika will have much to think about.

Even their famed defence, which had conceded just two tries through the pool games, cracked feebly as Scotland's Peter Horne snuck over untouched having picked up the ball at the back of the ruck.

The Wallabies' scrum, lauded after wins over England and Wales, also felt the pressure of the situation with loosehead prop Scott Sio frequently penalised, which Scotland halfback Greig Laidlaw happily converted into points en route to a 19-point haul of his own.

Sio's night went from bad to worse when he left the field with an injury to his right shoulder.

Australia had started perfectly, with a damaging Tevita Kuridrani bumping off defenders in the fifth minute before drawing the fullback to set up Adam Ashley-Cooper's first try of the tournament.

Ashley-Cooper had a second try taken away from him when the video referee found a knock-on at the breakdown by halfback Will Genia.

But the Wallabies were equally effective on the other side of the field, where Mitchell was the beneficiary of a superb cut-out pass from Kurtley Beale, who started at fullback in place of the injured Israel Folau (ankle).

Mitchell's two tries take his World Cup tally to 14, just one behind all-time leaders Jonah Lomu of New Zealand and Bryan Habana of South Africa.

Australia were put under immense pressure for the final 20 minutes when Scotland pulled within one point through a try to Tom Seymour, who claimed the spoils after teammate Finn Russell had charged down a meek Foley clearing kick.

But Kuridrani again came to Australia's rescue, crashing over from close range after Rob Simmons had won a lineout on Scotland's throw, to put the lead back out to eight points with 15 minutes to play, before the late game drama of Bennett's intercept try and Foley's last-gasp winner.

Australia 35 (Drew Mitchell 2, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Michael Hooper, Tevita Kuridrani tries, Bernard Foley 2 conversions, 2 penalties), Scotland 34 (Peter Horne, Tommy Seymour, Mark Bennett tries; Greig Laidlaw 2 conversions, 5 penalties). HT: 15-16


JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Oct 2015, 20:29
#2
18 Oct 2015, 20:29#2
 Most articles question why the TMO was not used. We will have to wait and see if we get any official statements about incident. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Oct 2015, 20:36
#3
18 Oct 2015, 20:36#3
 Why should the TMO have been used. The ball came off a Scot forward went forward and was caught by another Scot. The penalty was correct although very unfortuante.
The Maitland issue wasa pity for the Scots. But it did look like a deliberate knock down. I think Craig got it right on both counts.Craig however made many errors that handed the hapless wee abs an ill deserved RWC.
OZ certainly do not look like RWC contenders. The absence of Folua and Pococ k makes them look ordinary and the Argies  must fancy their chances!
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
18 Oct 2015, 21:25
#4
18 Oct 2015, 21:25#4
  wrong Mr. Beenn, twice wrong.
In the footage shown in the post-match it was very clear that the ball co mes off an aussie player. Very clear.
Maitland's wasn't an intentional knock-on,.... he almost catch the ball and he didn't tap the ball down.
This rule about yellow carding the intentional knock-on is a BS, too many insignificant plays costed yellows when players have tried to catch the ball. It should be just a penalty when it's clear that the ball is tapped down.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
18 Oct 2015, 21:33
#5
18 Oct 2015, 21:33#5
 Beeno I think you need to get your eyes tested. Joubert got every big decision wrong today.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Oct 2015, 22:28
#6
18 Oct 2015, 22:28#6
 Nope Maitlands knock down was obviously deliberate as he didnt want the Oz wing to get the ball and round himThe last incident was very quick and amistake coud be made . v ery unfortunate but hardly anyhwehere near as bad as the many bad calls Joubert made to hand the RWC to the wellbeaten wee abs.
I find it rich that these nz twits care to comment on Craigs reffing. Talk about hypocrisy! Craig had a good game on the whole. 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Oct 2015, 22:53
#7
18 Oct 2015, 22:53#7
 Beeno the defender of refs.
I haven't reviewed the incidents again yet but will do so later. In the meantime perhaps we will get an official explanation. What about your mate Kaplan? Has he said anything yet... anything intelligent that is.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
18 Oct 2015, 23:19
#8
18 Oct 2015, 23:19#8
 Beeno1
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 17509RE: 'Disgust' at referee Craig Joubert for not using TMO for penalty that Scotland dearly; NZ Herald
October 18, 2015, 22:28:19

 Nope Maitlands knock down was obviously deliberate as he didnt want the Oz wing to get the ball and round him

The last incident was very quick and amistake coud be made . v ery unfortunate but hardly anyhwehere near as bad as the many bad calls Joubert made to hand the RWC to the wellbeaten wee abs.
I find it rich that these nz twits care to comment on Craigs reffing. Talk about hypocrisy! Craig had a good game on the whole. 
It was a obvious deliberate knock-down? Really? You saw that as well? You would make  a terrible referee mate?
"unfortunate but hardly anyhwehere near as bad as the many bad calls Joubert made to hand the RWC to the wellbeaten wee abs.(sic)"
Two wrongs................ right.............?


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Oct 2015, 00:33
#9
19 Oct 2015, 00:33#9
 There were several Joubert mistakes:
1) Maitland reached for the ball, if he got the right touch he would surely have caught it....there was a chance he could. No deliberate knock down.
2) The incident where the ball squirted 10 metres from the Scottish player towards his own line could and did only happen because it struck the defender's hand. 
3) The late tackle on Hogg was at a minimum a penalty he had kicked the ball well  before the Aussies crashed into him.

4) Blithely ignoring 3) Joubert then misses the Wallaby who touched the ball before the accused Scot and arrogantly dismissed calls to use the TMO. He never even consulted with his linesman on a call that doomed 40 man years of effort or more....on the part of the Scots.
And we spotted several more poor calls in the course of the game. With Joubert you always sense he is blowing for a particular side....shameful. No wonder he made an ignominious sprint for the exit.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,281 posts
19 Oct 2015, 01:07
#10
19 Oct 2015, 01:07#10
He should have called the TMO. This is 100% certain. This is why we use this- to make sure the main decisions are not controversial with enough impact to decide winner and loser. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
19 Oct 2015, 01:37
#11
19 Oct 2015, 01:37#11
 I had 100 bucks on the Scots at 8$ for the win so Craig owes me 800 dollarirdoos ! Dont know why no TMO they use it for everything else .
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
19 Oct 2015, 10:14
#12
19 Oct 2015, 10:14#12
 I must stand up for Mr Craig Joubert. He is a Gentleman and he is still a Top Referee. Maitlands knock on prevented a certain Wallabies try (I cant believe I am defending the Walabies) and the Scotts Forward caught the ball in an offside position.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Oct 2015, 10:25
#13
19 Oct 2015, 10:25#13
 I shouted "penalty!" in dismay when I saw the Scott playing the ball after the k.o., but I also did not see a Wallaby touching the ball prior to that. Secondly, is it a knock if the ball bounces off the shoulder? Some more doubt. Yes, you don't use a TMO for run of the mill penalties,  but the result of the match hinged on this one. Joubert should have checked this one.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
19 Oct 2015, 11:07
#14
19 Oct 2015, 11:07#14
On TMO protocols, apparently this incident did not fit the criteria for a TMO review. To me the ref should have asked for a TMO review as the game was too important. If he did the Ozzie would have been complaining as bitterly as the Scots are now. Its a tough life being a ref.


"the official World Cup guideline states the TMO can be used only in the following cir[removed]stances:

1) Determining the grounding of the ball in-goal for a try or touchdown and/or whether players were in touch or touch in goal before grounding.

2) Determining whether a kick at goal has been successful.

3) Confirm if an infringement has occurred in the build-up to a try or prevention of a try (infringement must be within two phases of the try or touchdown).

4) Considering acts of possible foul play.

Joubert would have been acting well outside the rules if he had used the TMO."


TMO protocols as cited in NZ Herald

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Oct 2015, 11:40
#15
19 Oct 2015, 11:40#15
 Yes, even intentional off-side isn't foal play, so Joubert vindicated on this issue then. I did not watch the first half, so can't comment on that.
Just another comment, and this goes for all the refs. Players ahead of the kicker at kickoff. I noticed that at least 3 to 5 Aussie players were already about 5m over the halfway line by the time the ball was actually kicked. This was prior to the second last Aussie try(I think)....I'm not even going to mention scrum put-ins! The Aussies (and the Tah's) have their players running at speed from about 5m back of the halfway line when they kickoff. The kicker times his kick to the point that they are about to cross the line. They put a lot of pressure on the receiving side by doing this, but a lot of the time, the kick is too late and the refs and assistants don't pick it up.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
19 Oct 2015, 11:58
#16
19 Oct 2015, 11:58#16
 Unfortunately for the Jocks, Joubert followed the correct procedure even if his view of the incident was flawed. This was no different from say a collapsed scrum penalty awarded in the 79th minute in front of the posts. You don't see the ref then checking with the TMO to decide if he's pinged the right team. Any change to this law means we're heading to NFL and who wants to watch that boring crap???
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Oct 2015, 20:51
#17
19 Oct 2015, 20:51#17
 The TMO was mum too. In the end, the Scots did stuff up their own lineout, irrespective of whete the ball went and whom it touched after.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
19 Oct 2015, 23:57
#18
19 Oct 2015, 23:57#18
 People being unfair on Joubert. He coulde't use the TMO, as the protocols didn't allow him too. And if Scotland won their own lineout, it woulden't of been an issue. Joubert made the right call, and is still a very good ref.
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
20 Oct 2015, 07:14
#19
20 Oct 2015, 07:14#19
 Joubert made the correct calls every single time.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
20 Oct 2015, 11:50
#20
20 Oct 2015, 11:50#20
Joubert missed the fact that Phipps touched the ball so it should have been a scrum, but that's a mistake any ref could have made. The real mistake would have been calling for the TMO because that would have been a clear breach of the laws.

Looks like Joubert is going to become the Scots version of Bryce Lawrence . . . with about the same amount of justification.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
20 Oct 2015, 15:58
#21
20 Oct 2015, 15:58#21
 hakwa
 
Status: Senior player 
Posts: 3474RE: 'Disgust' at referee Craig Joubert for not using TMO for penalty that Scotland dearly; NZ Herald
October 20, 2015, 07:14:37

 Joubert made the correct calls every single time.



Correct. Wayne Barnes in 2007 as well.
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news