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Du Toit Key to Springbok Success in WC

Started by clevermike60 REPLIES750 VIEWS· 26 Jun 2015, 07:02
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 07:02
#1
26 Jun 2015, 07:02#1

The following from News24 will give Mozart and the Desert Diusaster seizures:-


" Springbok legend Mark Andrews believes the availability of Sharks lock Pieter-Steph du Toit would be crucial to South Africa’s campaign at this year’s Rugby World Cup in England.


Du Toit faces a race against time to recover from the serious knee injury - an anterior cruciate ligament tear - he suffered in March giving Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer sleepless nights over the No 5-lock position.


“I think if Pieter-Steph du Toit gets right he will solve that problem, for me he is the perfect lock but if he is not there we have some problems at No 5,” the former Bok lock said at the reunion of the 1995 World Cup winning Springbok squad at Ellis Park on Wednesday.


“He (Du Toit) is an incredible player and I think at a World Cup, even if he is fairly inexperienced but playing with a fairly experienced pack and some great loose forwards, a guy like Pieter-Steph will become the key part of our campaign.”

Andrews, who was an enforcer for the Boks during his heyday, said Du Toit ticked all the right boxes and would supply the grunt that was needed at a World Cup.


“I’ve played against and watched incredible locks play rugby in the last 20 years and for me he has the best attributes out of every single one of the great locks,” he said.

“He can carry the ball, tackle, take a lineout, defend a lineout, he can work a bit of the defensive line, cross-cover, he can read the game, his kick-offs are phenomenal and he chases the kick.”


To add to the No5-lock selection conundrum, Bulls lock Flip van der Merwe - who is also known for ‘doing the hard stuff’ - did not avail himself for the Springbok training camps in April.   Andrews said Van der Merwe was the obvious choice should Du Toit not be perfectly fit for the global showpiece starting in September.   “Flip van der Merwe would probably be a better option for me and I’ve heard he’s not made himself available which is a big scare for me,” Andrews said.  “Even though you need to give him the rule book so that he doesn’t give away four penalties in a game.

“He’s played some games in the past where he has been phenomenal for me, he just secures the ball and World Cups are about possession and applying pressure.

“You’ve got to have guys that are owning the breakdown and making sure your halfback is getting clean ball.”


Should neither Du Toit nor Van der Merwe be available, the No 5-jersey could go to Victor Matfield, who looked every bit his age this season with the exception of his lineout work.   Andrews said although nothing should be taken away from the 38-year-old’s legacy, he believed Matfield was past his sell-by date as a player.


“We can never take away from what Victor has done, but I know for myself and if you’ve been in the game long enough, it is very hard to play with the commitment and the passion that it takes when you’ve been there for a long time,” he explained.

“You’ve worked out the shortcuts, you also know that cleaning the ‘oke’ out at full pace can hurt so you wait for Willem Alberts to clean him out.


“At a World Cup you need to be able to have the mindset that you will write yourself off to secure ball at the breakdown and I think Victor is past that stage in his career.”

He said Matfield’s experience would be invaluable at the World Cup off the field but during the quarter-finals and the semi-finals, the Boks would require players “that are prepared to die in those jerseys and write themselves off for that ball”.


When Andrews previously criticized the selection of Matfield Mozart went on his normal campaign against Andrews saying he has a personal agenda against Matfield - so we expect the same in this case.    


However, I have highlighted one critical comment in the above article.   In the article there is one very true statement of fact namely that Matfield looked every bit his age this season.   An exception is made in respect of Matfield's line out work - but with line-out takes dwindling to between 1 and 3 takes per match the question arises is the exception still valid.   Matfield definitely is way past his sell-by date.


Incidentally the Oxford dictionary has added PAPSAK to its words in use - must have been thinking of Matfield when doing that.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jun 2015, 10:56
#2
26 Jun 2015, 10:56#2

Mark Andrews is spot on.........there is a good chance he knows what he is talking about.


The obvious choices to partner Etzebeth are PSDT, Willemse or Jacques du Plessis......its so bloody obvious.......hardly brain science needed......why on earth would you even contemplate a washed up 38 year old when you have these lads to choose from?


You would have to either be stupid or rugby ignorant  

JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
26 Jun 2015, 12:04
#3
26 Jun 2015, 12:04#3
Really? People are still hyping this player?

Pieter-Steph du Toit hasn't shown any kind of form during the last few years. He's never really proved whether he can make a step up at test level. In retrospect there are other SA locks who fully played their hearts out this year for example, Franco Mostert and Jacques du Plessis, they are far more on the verge of test quality than where Steph du Toit is. He doesn't have the capabilities as a lock, i see Du Toit more as a Alberts type loose forward with only physicality in his locker but not much else.

Selecting players with variety of abilities would always be a positive selection, Du toit is not that type of player. Springbok Rugby would be a whole lot better if we stop being confined to selecting one dimensional players.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jun 2015, 13:03
#4
26 Jun 2015, 13:03#4

Jerome....are you just stupid or do you have issues with your eyesight.......fuck me, PSDT was bloody fantastic for the Sharks this S15 prior to his injury.


Your rugby ignorance is irritating......you are fucking clueless  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 13:25
#5
26 Jun 2015, 13:25#5
 Jerome 
I think that Du Toit adds something special to the game that moves him higher in rating than either Du Plessis or Mostert - don't get me wrong, both of the two are in fact good locks.    
Du Plessis is more of a no 4 lock - he is very strong, but slower than Du Toit and a less effective ball carrier and tackler.   Mostert is more tending to be like Du Toit - but I think that although they play more or less the same style - Du Toit is the better line-out jumper, speedier and a better ball carrier.   I have been watching Du Toit carefully before the injury and he has that bit of extra in what he does what makes him a top class player.
    
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
26 Jun 2015, 13:42
#6
26 Jun 2015, 13:42#6
Mark Andrews is 100% on the money! And as Saff has pointed out, PSDT was fantastic lat year and this year up until his injury.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jun 2015, 13:43
#7
26 Jun 2015, 13:43#7

Mike, I somehow doubt PSDT is faster that Jacques du Plessis......I'd put my money of du Plessis being quicker.


Also there would be nothing between them when it comes to balls carried and tackles made......both a very physical players.


I actually think du Plessis is better suited to the No5 spot given his athleticism, much like PSDT.


There is nothing to choose between these two players.......both are class acts and both should walk the WC squad......but Meyer is too stupid to pick up on that.......instead we will see the likes of Alberts and Matfield in the squad.

JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
26 Jun 2015, 13:56
#8
26 Jun 2015, 13:56#8
The difference is PSDT is not a complete lock.

Jacques Du Plessis is faster and stronger. His work at the breakdown is often taken for granted, he is a very good fetcher and can link with other players around him. 

PSDT is not nearly as good as Du Plessis and Mostert, PSDT is overrated really.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 14:06
#9
26 Jun 2015, 14:06#9
 Jerome
You are welcopme to your idea about the player - but with respect I differ from you.   The difference is Du plessis is "dumb muscle" Du Toit is "clever muscle".    
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jun 2015, 14:40
#10
26 Jun 2015, 14:40#10
Steph has done what exactly? Maybe in a couple of years, who knows, but to date, there is nothing to substantiate such praise. Nothing. To claim he will be the central player upon which we build our entire campaign is utterly ridiculous in the extreme. This isn't Brussow, Hooper, Nonu, Rougerie, O'Driscoll... players who give you so much of a competitive advantage that you craft your game around their strengths. Not a jot! And this nonsense that Victor only operates in the lineout is a lie of the highest order. But no surprises that these very same faces are the ones who criticize video footage! Victor clearly is not as imposing as he was in his prime. But if I were a Du Toit-Pom fanboy, I would be very concerned about Victor out playing him. Very concerned. I recall last year, before his injury, Jake went a long way to incorporate Steph and we didn't see that dominance shine through. Steph isn't even half the player Bekker was at Super level. But the hype-machine rolls once more...
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:02
#11
26 Jun 2015, 15:02#11
I think its safe to say that Mark Andrews word over you ignorant lot is about all that needs to be said. Andrews is spot on......PSDT is a special talent who has shown plenty to date.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:10
#12
26 Jun 2015, 15:10#12
Steph DuToit has won man of the match in a Curry Cup final. That is his best achievement so far. Unfortunately he seems like he is another Goosen.
He was looking for pretty average at the start of the season for the Sharks. Although this is the norm with players that get injured frequenly- their comes backs are slow
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:16
#13
26 Jun 2015, 15:16#13
 Sharkbok
I do not know what rugby matches you watched at the start of the Super 15 season - Du Toit was by some distance the best performing lock of All SA  franchises prior to his injury
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:19
#14
26 Jun 2015, 15:19#14
I did remember his last game when Matfield played the fool with him in the lineout. In his other games he did not set the world alide. Solid- but not brilliant. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:24
#15
26 Jun 2015, 15:24#15
 Desert disaster
The moment you mentioned "Victor clearly is not as imposing as he was in his prime. But if I were a Du Toit-Pom fanboy, I would be very concerned about Victor out playing him." I cracked up.   You really are so idiotic it is funny peculiar.   Matfield never had any grunt and was never imposing him on anybody.  He was a light weight easily lifted in line-outs and moonlighting in the backline he made many tackles and bungled up backline play by the teams he played for.  Imposing - what a joke!!!!!!!!   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:27
#16
26 Jun 2015, 15:27#16

Mark Andrews doesn't like Victor who is so much more lauded than he is.......  so suddenly Stephanie becomes crucial to our WC. And they publish this garbage. And then .....hahahaha....the lemmings believe it!

 

 

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:32
#17
26 Jun 2015, 15:32#17
As I recall, Victor replaced Andrews outright. Andrews used to be held in very high esteem, as much as victor is today, but has become something of a forgotten man. These lemmings seem to think that listening to the opinions of some other humans is like consulting the fates.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:42
#18
26 Jun 2015, 15:42#18

Well at least Andrews had some resiliency and stayed on the park. But now his lesser legacy is being tainted by his obvious jealousy towards Victor. How quickly a 6' 7' man can become small.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 15:52
#19
26 Jun 2015, 15:52#19
 Mozart
I believer Andrews knows more about lock performances than you do.   He can see and identify what is wrong in the case of Matfield - you are too ignorant to see what is going on.
 The idea that "Andrews does not like Victor" is something dreamt up by you to divert attention away from the very real criticism of Andrews as to Matfield's performances.   And Andrews be jealous of Victor - you dream up thi ngs like that and then state it as fact on this site.  Really funny.     
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
26 Jun 2015, 16:01
#20
26 Jun 2015, 16:01#20
Andrews knows how to be a lock, but is he saying this for rugby reasons alone? It doesn't take much brain-power to see that there is more to that remark. We know Du Toit has done nothing so far in his career, so he must obviously be targeting Victor. It's the classic indirect approach, raise up an alternative to be the image of your movement and praise them until the pressure becomes so great that the coach has to relent and promote them undeservedly. If Andrews doesn't dislike Victor, he obviously doesn't rate him, but he should have more cojones and just say it outright. It's funny how Michael so Clever took the bait like a good little guppy, LMAO!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 16:23
#21
26 Jun 2015, 16:23#21
 Desert Disaster - the crackpot!!!!!!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Jun 2015, 16:49
#22
26 Jun 2015, 16:49#22
The Sharks cabal at work. Fans think the Bools control Bok rugby....actually it's more the Sharks, who control the rugby press.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Jun 2015, 16:54
#23
26 Jun 2015, 16:54#23
 Mozart
That is funny peculiar.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,284 posts
27 Jun 2015, 03:35
#24
27 Jun 2015, 03:35#24
What sense does it make to say an injured player is key to the success of a tournament. At this stage PSDT is 50/50 to even be at the tournament. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2015, 04:59
#25
27 Jun 2015, 04:59#25
The kind of moronic rubbish Andrews produced here is quite discouraging....if we don't get smarter, mentally tougher, less emotional... Bok rugby is on an elevator going down. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2015, 08:17
#26
27 Jun 2015, 08:17#26
 Playing players like Alberts, Jannie, Matfield and co - all way past their sell-by date Bok rugby is going downhill faster than the elevator you wrote about.   Andrews is not moronic when he said Matfield looked his age in every match he played in this year.    - 
Lets face facts the following was Matfields playing records in May and June this year:-
Lions  - 2 May 2015
Matfield0/000/9/20000013/14/130/0
8-9 May 2015 Bye
Blues  - 15 May 2015
Matfield0/000/2/00000010/28/000/0
Chiefs -  23 May 2015
Matfield0/001/7/517001415/05/010/0
Brumbies - 29 May 2015 - Did not play
Rebels - 6 June 2015
Matfield0/000/4/31000005/13/000/0
Cheetahs - 13 June 2015 - did not play
In seven weeks Matfield played 4 matches.   Now lets analyse his performances in those 4 matches:-
Matfield0/001/22/827001443/420/140/0
The above showed that -
*   while moonlighting in the backline Matfield did make a few ball carries in the last two games he played in - but in traffic he showed zero grunt.
*    he beat no defenders at all and made 1 off-load.
*    lost ball possession 4 times because he tried to carry balls - got tackled - went straight down and the opposing teams took the ball from Matfield with ease
*    moonlighting in the backline, Matfield made 43 process tackles - missing 4
*    Matfield took 20 line-outs on own throw and one on opposition throw-in
*    Gave away four penalties
So where was Andrews right and where wrong.   He was right about the role of Matfield in Tight 5 play and in ball carries in traffic - zero of that.   He was right about the moonlighting of Matfield in the backline and the tackles he made as a result.   He was right when he said that Matfield made a reasonable number of line-out takes - even though one take on opposition throw in four games is not really much to brag about.   Not a sign of the line-out king he used to be.
The Bulls did not win a single game Matfield played in on tour and they in fact won only 1 of the six games played.   
But Andrews was also right about Matfield being looking his age in games.   In 7 weeks he had to be rested 3 times - 1 bye and two other rest games.   
So Andrews did not talk emotional tripe like you claim he did and that is a fact of life.
 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jun 2015, 09:01
#27
27 Jun 2015, 09:01#27
 Another hilarious thread. Du Toit is a superb player ticking all the boxes as Andrews has said. What utter baloney to argue otherwise! Matfiled is a seriously bad joke. We have absolutely no problem at 5 lock as even Eben can play there!!!. All Meyer need to do is give guys like Willemse and Du Plesdis some test experience
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jun 2015, 09:35
#28
27 Jun 2015, 09:35#28
Andrews was 4 timrs the player wee matfiled the conman EVER was. To suggest he is jealous of the self serving matfiled is hilarious BWAHAHAHAHAHA
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Jun 2015, 09:39
#29
27 Jun 2015, 09:39#29
Mike to try and discredit Andrews in a personal level for his honest crit re wee matfiled is poor form. I think Andrews wad very polite as the only true discription re matfield is hopeless player.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
27 Jun 2015, 11:24
#30
27 Jun 2015, 11:24#30
 Actually Victor does a lot of grunt work. This notion that he sits amongst the backs reflects an excessively limited understanding of the game. But then Michael doesn't watch games, he toddles off to espn like a little girl skipping merrily to the candy store and picks what "facts" he likes like she chooses raspberry bootlaces and gum drops. And he has the gall to call himself Clever, ROFLMAO!! 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2015, 11:32
#31
27 Jun 2015, 11:32#31
 Desert D isaster
Matfield doing and grunt work - now that takes the cake.   Matfield and grunt is two exact opposites - he is useless in Tight 5 play.   I watch rugby and look at facts - not the fiction you dream up.   What a remark from a person who has zero knowledge of the game of rugby!!!!!!!!!! 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2015, 15:30
#32
27 Jun 2015, 15:30#32

HasBEEN if you look at which Bok forward stops tries close to the Bok line, look no further than Victor. In the Pom tests for example he hauled down one of the Pom fatties right under the poles when it seemed a try was inevitable.  The commentators made note. The man plays with smarts...something that seems to e lude his critics.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Jun 2015, 16:20
#33
27 Jun 2015, 16:20#33
 Because Matfield once in his life while moonlighting in the backline, made a tackle in 2007 stopping Tate from scoring a try - it is now the norm insofar as Matfield is concerned.   That was EIGHT YEARS ago - granted he was good then in certain aspects of play, he is useless in all aspects of play at this stage when he is way past his sell-by date.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
27 Jun 2015, 17:46
#34
27 Jun 2015, 17:46#34

Ag ou Rokkie you are such a drag.....look up minute 64.40 of the Welsh test. Webb breaks outside Nyakane 5 metres out and Matfield is forced to make the tackle....he smashes Webb to the ground and has the sense to watch for the try placement and actually prevents it.

 

The Welsh commentator shouts out "great tackle"

 

 

A try saving tackle not 8 years ago but in the last 20 minutes of Bok rugby.

 

 Eat crow.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2015, 01:09
#35
28 Jun 2015, 01:09#35
Silencio as Rokkie slinks away.  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 Jun 2015, 01:23
#36
28 Jun 2015, 01:23#36
 These delicate little snowflakes never get their facts right before speaking. It's hilarious!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2015, 15:56
#37
28 Jun 2015, 15:56#37
Rokkie no apology. Surely you want to do the gentlemanly thing and admit your error.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Jun 2015, 16:14
#38
28 Jun 2015, 16:14#38
 When Matfield smashed a player to the ground is a miracle - have to look at that one.  However, your assessment of players is such a shambles/bunch of disinformation  - I am not going to apologize based on your description of what happened during a game.   Will over the next week look again for that miracle tackle - since Matfield tackles are normally weak and ineffective.     
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 Jun 2015, 18:19
#39
28 Jun 2015, 18:19#39
 Will you apologise for your statement that NZ ran all day at Morne at Ellis Park in 2013? Or for saying how stupid I was for disagreeing with you whimsical tale of Du Preez costing us the 2005 England test? The one that was definitely in 2005 because you had a sick relative whom you visited? The one that video footage debunked? LMAO. I could go on but I don't intend to write a novel length account of your gaffs!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Jun 2015, 21:01
#40
28 Jun 2015, 21:01#40
 Rockie gathers her pleats and heads for the exit. The chance that she will  look at Matfield's " great tackle" about zero.
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