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FORUM / RUGBY /  Ex-Boks in anti-Meyer campaign

Ex-Boks in anti-Meyer campaign

Started by clevermike55 REPLIES949 VIEWS· 08 Nov 2015, 03:22
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2015, 03:22
#1
08 Nov 2015, 03:22#1
The following from News24:-
"Two former Test captains, Wynand Claassen and Divan Serfontein, are drumming up support among old Springboks, provincial players and supporters to bring down Rugby World Cup coach Heyneke Meyer.

The pair, in an unprecedented move to end Meyer’s tenure as Springbok coach, on Friday circulated a hard-hitting letter under a heading “Heyneke Must Fall” among dozens of former Springboks. Claassen and Serfontein have called for concerted action to ensure that Meyer’s four-year contract is not renewed when the SA Rugby Union (SARU) executive meets early next month after the Springboks finished in third place at the Rugby World Cup.


“Let us stand together and fight for change in South African rugby so that we, as loyal South Africans, can again be proud and that players get the opportunities to develop, thrive and to wear the Springbok jersey with pride,” the two said.


“There is no doubt that SA rugby is on the decline, if one looks at the performances of the Springbok team over the last four years.   “One out of eight victories over the All Blacks in the last four years, tell the whole sorry tale.


“After Heyneke Meyer took over as Springbok coach at the end of 2011, he said that the people must judge him after the 2015 World Cup.  Well, the tournament had come and gone and now is the time to judge him.”


Claassen, who led the Springboks from 1981-84 and also captained Natal, and Serfontein, a former Western Province and Springbok scrumhalf, said that Meyer has blamed the players’ “lack of skills as the reason for the World Cup disaster” but the problem was that the team was not being coached properly.


“The skills of the players are being suppressed in his rigid, predictable pattern and he actually points a finger at himself by acknowledging that the skills are lacking.


He is coaching pattern rugby instead of individual skills. He is obsessed with size and power… his archaic pattern doesn’t work anymore, but he is still persisting with it. It points to stubbornness and he does not realise that the rest of the rugby world has already moved on, playing total, 15-man rugby, which is exciting for both players as spectators. The players of other countries develop and improve. South Africans are going backwards.


“Heyneke does not understand the modern game. All the rugby playing countries know exactly how the Boks play and plan accordingly.”


The two ask what fate would befall Steve Hansen, the All Black coach, if his team lost to Argentina in New Zealand, were beaten by Japan in the World Cup and returned home with only a bronze medal as consolation prize.


“Meyer insisted (in selection) on experience and pursued old players past their best or retired; he stuck to players who have been injured for a long time; players out of form; and also did not give the necessary opportunities to players of colour.


“Look further to his inexperienced managing and coaching team (which he insisted be appointed) with absolute no international experience at this level. Apparently they also do not know how to coach individual skills. It therefore indicates that Heyneke appoints people, not because of their ability as coaches, but so that he could control them and demand total loyalty.”


Claassen and Serfontein are adamant that SARU should not be satisfied with a mediocre World Cup, four failed years of coaching and the rapid decline of Springbok rugby.

“This brings us to the extremely suspicious process of Heyneke’s appointment for another term of a further four years by SARU. Who did this?


“Can SA Rugby afford someone that performs like a maniac in the coaching enclosure, wearing his Springbok blazer, in the eyes of the whole world on television?  Compare this with the behaviour of Steve Hansen of New Zealand. Is this the example of a role model?”

Claassen, who is back in Meyer’s home city of Pretoria after decades in Durban, said that he and Serfontein had decided to protest before Meyer’s contract was confirmed for another four years.  In the circulated e-mail they requested the recipients to forward their letter to as many ex-players and Springbok supporters as possible.


“If one takes everything above into consideration, Meyer has failed. But despite this, he defends his list of performance and now pleads for ‘continuity’ to retain his job.”


The crux of the matter is that other countries, our own people as well as former Springboks who have so much pride in the Springbok jersey, are feeling ashamed about the performances of the Boks.


“One man is responsible for this, namely Heyneke Meyer.”


DISCUSSION


We have been writing on this site about the same thing and Claasens and Serfontein has summed up the real situation 100%.  There can be no argument about the following:-


*   Crazy selection of players - experience without performance and hospital ward seletions.

*   An archaic game plan the opposition deals with easily;

*   His management team he insisted on.

*   The fact that former Springboks are upset about what Meyer has done to destroy the prestige of the Spriingbok team.


Much of the above was often enough said on this site,,   But whenever that was said their were howling of ignorant fools like Mozart, DF and Ceradunce on this site.  They supported the BS reputation selections without regard to performance.- they supported the archaic game plan. - they supported the myth that the Springboks must comprise of skill-deficient players.  


Lets face facts - I think this is the start of a storm about Meyer's contract renewal and it is going to get worse over the ne xt few weeks.   


To my mind other than not building a proper WC squad by constant falling back on reputation players without any regard to performance - mot of whom ended up  being failures - the worst thing Meyer has done to SA Rugby was an archaic game plan, easily dealt with by opposing teams.   The crud produced this WC was a crime against rugby as the game should be played.   



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Nov 2015, 03:37
#2
08 Nov 2015, 03:37#2
The criticism is all justified bar.the comment re players of colour. Here the converse is true - quotas playets have been selected.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2015, 03:51
#3
08 Nov 2015, 03:51#3
 Bereno
I think the situation as to the players of colour is not what you think it is.   Meyer's problem is that - like his selection being based on reputation and not on performance, Meyer's selections f players of colour is deficient on the same basis.   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Nov 2015, 04:44
#4
08 Nov 2015, 04:44#4
Perhaps they blame HM for the poor Sevens, S15 and junior results over the same period. A bunch of hackneyed arguments presented by two rather stupid chaps if you read their logic.
"One man is responsible for this". Apparently these two fools haven't grasped that we went further in 2015 than 2011.

Funny stuff. I don't believe HM should be retained on the simple basis that he gave it his best shot. It was a credible attempt, we were within 2 points and dominated the first half of the semi final. But ultimately  our challenge fell short and I don't  think HM has another dimension that will change the equation. 
A new approach is always best in these cases, in business and in sport.

But giving credence  to this pathetic witch hunt disgusts me.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,280 posts
08 Nov 2015, 04:48
#5
08 Nov 2015, 04:48#5
We need to get rid of Meyer, but not with another SA coach. Ackerman is a possibility is at least the Lions are improving- but he still needs to do something like best the top SA team in SuperXV
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Nov 2015, 05:35
#6
08 Nov 2015, 05:35#6
Finishes of SA teams in Super 15
2012 - 1,5,6,10,15 - avg 7.42013 - 2,6,7,8,15 - avg 7.62014 - 3,9,11,12,14 - avg 9.82015 - 3,8,9,11,12 - avg 8.6
2012 and 2013 - three teams in the top half2014 and 2015 - only one team in top half
The main problem is not the Bok coach. 
The situation is only set to worsen with the new diluted Super 18 that SA Rugby is largely to blame for where we have fewer games against the best teams and even more of our players go to play in inferior leagues in the NH and Japan, getting further behind the pace.
Meanwhile Aus and NZ teams will continue to push each other in their division.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
08 Nov 2015, 07:01
#7
08 Nov 2015, 07:01#7

 Good insight, oimatey. The problems lie squarely in our poor franchise performances but the national coach is suppose wave the magic wand and be the cure-all.However, there is truth in the fact that Meyer made a poor selection with his backline coach and the reason for that remains obscure.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Nov 2015, 08:02
#8
08 Nov 2015, 08:02#8
What utter nonsense! Meuer bungled his squad developement via two things: Some very poor selections Dom rugby Yrs yhe A Yop get the Jarpy action cist us the RWC. However anybody believing this DOM rugby gets the best ojt of our tesm is s raving nutter! Playing predictable rugby with no creativity was not necessary. Meyer had a good enough team to win if he had played smart rugby. Fact is we looked in most of our mstches the most backward unimaginative side in the tournament. We were labelled the sleeping giant by a nz journo. Quite right. Playing balanced rugby with decent creativity we wete potentially at least 20 points better than the hapless wer abs! NO WONDER EX BOKS ARE UP IN ARMS. Those supporting this rubbish need to stop making silly excuses and afmit yhe error of their ways" Hahahahahahaha. Tbe worst of ot all was the two down under burglars made the final when neither should have.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2015, 08:20
#9
08 Nov 2015, 08:20#9
oimatey
The problem si that two styles of rugby developed in the Super 15 set-up.  The one set was made up of the Meyer type of coaches - with the only interest being in using 10 or 11 man rugby and a supposed strong defense scenario (Stormers, Bulls and Sharks (after Plumtree left), the other being the playing of comprehensive rugby.  The Cheetahs has a generally weak forward combination and they are regularly raided by the financially stronger franchises and the Lions have had a surprisingly good two years with unknown players.
It is for that reason that the Bulls got rid of Ludeke and the Stormers of Coetzee.   The Shark has been in constant turmoil since the departure of Plumtree.    It is the terminally ill usage of players and playing style that caused most of the problems - not the availability of talent.  
   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2015, 08:45
#10
08 Nov 2015, 08:45#10
Lets look at Mozart's comments. 
"A bunch of hackneyed arguments presented by two rather stupid chaps if you read their logic."
Anybody disagreeing with Mozart is described by him as "stupid chaps" - this while his knowledge of rugby is dismal.   The arguments raised by the so-called "stupid chaps" are precisely what happened in reality on the ground.  This same arguments were stated on the air by Naas Botha and Nic Mallettt  and countless others.   This comment of Mozart is typical - he supported the stupid rugby playing style of Meyer and he supported the selection of the useless rugby geriatrics.   He went further than even Meyer did - he shouted and screamed about having Fat Fransie in the squad.
"But giving credence  to this pathetic witch hunt disgusts me."

There is no member of this site more involved with "witch hunts" against individual players - normally based purely on his personal dislike of individual players and mostly based on absolute rubbish and lies invented than Mozart is.  What a farce to make a comment like that.  .     
Losing virtually 50% of the tests since September 2014 before the WC, losing against Argentina and Japan for the first time ever and going down as far as number 6 in the world rankings, is sugarcoated by another absurd reasoning about losing to the AB's by only 2 points in the semi.
Mozart is obviously is keeping his options open in this case,  If Meyer is not re-appointed he has an escape mechanism - his latest comments are open-ended.  If Meyer is re-contracted all his previous arguments about how  good a coach Meyer is and how his selections were spot on - will be repeated on this site.  
     

         
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 10:38
#11
08 Nov 2015, 10:38#11
 Love these two guys.....nothing wrong with our junior results Moffie we have won the JWC in that time and our U18 keep winning. S15 sides have rid themselves of the useless coaches in Coetzee, Drotske and Ludeke this year. Last year's s15 results were fine as was the year before.
Trust a fucking idiot like yourself to think Meyer should stay - what a dunce....nothing like backing a loser...takes one to know one
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
08 Nov 2015, 11:13
#12
08 Nov 2015, 11:13#12
"Last year's s15 results were fine as was the year before."
    
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 11:44
#13
08 Nov 2015, 11:44#13
 Losing a final and being in 2 semi s is hardly poor now is it....considering hoe utterly useless our coaches were except for Joke at s15 level.
Let's just see what Eddie Jones can do with our talent this year. You clowns are going to get your arses kicked one more time by Dave.
Lions w ill be good as will the Bulls under their new coach 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 11:44
#14
08 Nov 2015, 11:44#14
 Losing a final and being in 2 semi s is hardly poor now is it....considering hoe utterly useless our coaches were except for Joke at s15 level.
Let's just see what Eddie Jones can do with our talent this year. You clowns are going to get your arses kicked one more time by Dave.
Lions w ill be good as will the Bulls under their new coach 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Nov 2015, 12:02
#15
08 Nov 2015, 12:02#15
It has been noted many times Super 15 form does not necessarily translate into test form. What is certain is dom rugby is not our traditional style and doesnt work. Also we cant afford daft selections ala wee matfield and quotas. ou maaikie what black players should have been in the squad on merit that were no t selected?
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
08 Nov 2015, 15:27
#16
08 Nov 2015, 15:27#16
 Three old folks that think Meyer must remain as the Bok coach.1. Meyer.2. Mozart.3. Matfield.

The three M's.....let u decide what else starts with M.
Classens and Serfontein are correct.......they have to go.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Nov 2015, 15:53
#17
08 Nov 2015, 15:53#17
 Fartur perhaps you should read the string before posting. This is my post a few posts above:
"I don't believe HM should be retained on the simple basis that he gave it his best shot. It was a credible attempt, we were within 2 points and dominated the first half of the semi final. But ultimately  our challenge fell short and I don't  think HM has another dimension that will change the equation. 
A new approach is always best in these cases, in business and in sport."
Do you have enough class to apologize?
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Nov 2015, 16:15
#18
08 Nov 2015, 16:15#18
 Well, last time I checked, even clever people makes foolish statements from time to time. But I won't be so bold to call 2 ex Bok captains. ..on a doctor and the other an architect  stupid people. Maybe not as clever as a math Phd, but not stupid either....just saying.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 17:45
#19
08 Nov 2015, 17:45#19
No according to Moz they are stupid as they happen to call it as it is.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Nov 2015, 18:07
#20
08 Nov 2015, 18:07#20
 Dave 
When anybody differ from Mozart - they are according to him stupid.  Mozart is the most self-centered and egotistic person on this site.   He does not realize how really idiotic some of his comments are.   When we have to deal with clueless members we only can laugh about them.   Nobody in rugby takes their comments seriously.
After years of putting Meyer on a pedestal - because he was stupid enough to select Mozart's heroes of the past and applying the same clueless rugby he propagated, Mozart let himself a slight opening to suggest that he is not convinced Meyer must stay on.   If he stays on Mozart will be back to his boot-licking best - if Meyer is not appointed he would say he really was right when the matter came up for discussion.
After years of Mozart licking everything he could get at insofar as Meyer is concerned - now this idiocy.        
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 18:14
#21
08 Nov 2015, 18:14#21
 Let's just hope Claasens and Serfontein s endeavours gain momentum as we can't rely on the equally pathetic rugby board to make the right call.
Who really cares what Moz thinks....his picks like Jean, Morne, Pienaar, du Preez, Jannie, Matfield and Alberts will never play for the Boks again. Hopefully we will never have to endure his pick of a coach ever coaching the Boks ever again.
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
08 Nov 2015, 19:23
#22
08 Nov 2015, 19:23#22
 Yep I do have class....so here goes.
I Arthur John do apologize for the following:
1. That HM was selected as the Springbok manager.2. That Greybeard Matfield was selected to WC 2015.3. That Mozzie after pleading still has not repented.
Dankie.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 19:29
#23
08 Nov 2015, 19:29#23
 Ha ha AJ good one 
CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
08 Nov 2015, 20:06
#24
08 Nov 2015, 20:06#24
 what a pair of players was serfontein and claasen
in there day they played a style of rugby that is far better than the crud we are seeing today
why are these guys not involved in taking the game forward
on the meyer issue...i do agree saying meyer is to be blamed for all the shortcummings is a massive shortsighted move....but he is a major part of the problem and he lacks the ablity to change
we need to change this and change it we will have to if we dont want to be a second tier nation in the future
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Nov 2015, 23:01
#25
08 Nov 2015, 23:01#25
3 years in the rugby wilderness before Meyer's selection as Bok coach, showed in his out of touch game plan and blind faith in the washed up has beens he was familiar with.
In a nutshell far to conservative.....a 66% win record with the talent we have at our disposal is just not good enough.....13% win record against the AB's is a disgrace
Meyer MUST go - no debate
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Nov 2015, 07:21
#26
09 Nov 2015, 07:21#26
 
Soooooo ... I see Matey's also abandoned his previous standing of Meyer for Bok coach indefinitely.

Funny how it only came after Mozart tucked tail and ran.

A sniveling little lap dog ... a wanker

I see Shark has also joined the tail tuckers. Next will no doubt be the cry baby from down under ... Mr Comb-Over himself ... Denise.

I am very pleased that there are folk out there determined to break the hold of the Broerdersbond on South African Rugby.

Meyer is to blame for it all. He is absolutely useless. A stubborn fool who thinks he knows it all. 

The sooner they throw him out with the rest of the rubbish the better.

 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Nov 2015, 07:59
#27
09 Nov 2015, 07:59#27
 This was a complete turnaround by the fools who two weeks ago when the issue of contract renewal for Meyer was raised on this site was still on their knees licking his boots and intimate parts figuratively - when they attacked vigo rously the Meyer opponents on this site.  
Something hit home - the fact that the bookies opened bets on who would succeed Meyer, the fact that the management indicated that the General Council will decide on the issue and thereafter the Board and the fact that the media is getting louder and louder about the foolishness of another Meyer term, must have been getting to them.  They are running for cover now thus  saving face in case Meyer is not re-appointed.   More egg going their way I am afraid.     
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Nov 2015, 08:34
#28
09 Nov 2015, 08:34#28
 
Mike ... I think it's a little too late for them to save face.

They've been backing Meyer for the last 4 years ... absurd as it sounds ... now that Meyer needs their support, they've abandoned him.

Typical loudmouthed cowards.

It's like having a friend join you for a drink at the local pub ... you'll soon find out what he's made of ... he'll either stand with you in times of trouble ... even if it meant ending up lying in a hospital bed, all battered with you ... or ... he'll tuck tail and run ... leaving you to face the music on your own ...

 
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
09 Nov 2015, 08:51
#29
09 Nov 2015, 08:51#29
 Meyer is a good guy with a nice personality but a kak coach - Jake is a good coach but has a kak personality.
Not one of the players of colour as you fools like to call us were a clear quota player.  I think Rudy Paige (to name but one) was / is much better than that Gysie's son who is as slow as a turtle out of the water.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Nov 2015, 09:15
#30
09 Nov 2015, 09:15#30
 
How about Kolisi?

Is he a player for the future?


BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
09 Nov 2015, 10:38
#31
09 Nov 2015, 10:38#31
When Meyer became coach I was very happy, and I backed him for most of his tenure! After our win against the AB's last year I thought he was finally living up to the expectation, but then our EOY tour turned out to be a big flop, and I started to worry about his coaching again. 
The truth is the following, we have become France! We can beat any team, and as we saw against Japan, we can lose to any team! Forgetting all the other regurgitated opinions about Meyers conservatism etc, his biggest failing is that he has just not been able to make the Boks consistent. 
It is time for a coaching overhaul, and even though I backed him before, I don't anymore!  


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Nov 2015, 10:42
#32
09 Nov 2015, 10:42#32
 cc
I actually prefer Notshe to Kolisi as a loosie.
  
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Nov 2015, 10:52
#33
09 Nov 2015, 10:52#33
Hi guys. I can't recall another time in Bok history when the rugby public were so adamant about sacking the coach. Normally I steer far clear of the bandwagon but in this case I fully agree. There are so many reason's why HM must go, but the one thing about him that really gets under my skin is his arrogant way of attempting to appease Bok fans in meaningless/easy games. I made a post some time ago about how I was totally confused by his planning. Apart from the glaring issues of outdated tactics and extremely poor selections, there are slightly more subtle yet also very telling issues. Anyone remember the Barbarian's game? How even some of HM's detractors said that it appeared he'd turned over a new leaf? Some knew this was not the case but everybody hoped it was. Now here's the twofold reason why the Barbarian, USA and other meaningless games fukc me off beyond compare. HM knew three years ago what kind of gameplan he would use against the better(anyone better than Wales) teams. Yet, instead of using the extremely valuable match practice to get his players rolling with his this plan of his...THE IDIOT PLAYS RUNNING RUGBY AGAINST THOSE WEAK TEAMS. So, A) He wants to appease the rugby public with flare in these meaningless games, and it actually worked on some dim people. For me it did the exact opposite. And, B) he actually has the nerve to include tries against these teams in his argument about how the Boks scored a lot of tries under his tenure. So, in the WC, we went with a team of guys, half of which didn't deserve their spot but had been promised it ages before, regardless of form. Then we never, not before or in the early stages of the competition, practiced the structures he wanted to play. And at the end of it all, the entire rugby world has seen right through Meyer and he still has the arrogance to claim that the Boks are not skillful enough and the he should remain as coach...with the only reason being continuity. There is a very interesting function or rather, a marker of intelligence, which is very relevant here. When being confronted with new information that is contrary to what one has come to believe, then your brain responds in a certain way. People with low IQs actually have the exact same neural pathways light up, as those which light up when you are being physically attacked. Intelligent, people in the same situation, have a similar response, in that the same pathways light up, but only very briefly and this is followed by immediately by a disproportionate endorphine release as compared with the amount of "conflict" experienced. IE...smart people actually love new ideas and are rewarded for making new ideas part of their operating system...while dumb people, possibly because they simply don't have the ability to take on much new info, have to revert to larger mentality or face the risk of being eternally confused by the external world. Which one of the categories above does Meyer fall into?
CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
09 Nov 2015, 10:57
#34
09 Nov 2015, 10:57#34
 clean cut ????? what the fudge are you talking about broederbond ???? 
are you for real of wait let me guess your one of those pure bred god save the queen types.....park your racism somewhere else you salad tosser
keep it to rugby affairs if you poke around on forums maybe go and poke your queen victoria blow up doll as i sure you do every morning in anycase
meyer has alienated all his supporters as he is out of his depth skillset wise and showed his hand...good person no doubt but way to emotional in his selections and even more so in his pattern that he wants us to play. having emotion is a good thing but it has the adverse effect of making one making knee jerk decisions and being conservative. 
he did not back his players or himself playing a style that is now the defacto standard world wide....results speak for themselves
mike on kolisi he is neither there nor here as a flanker thats his problem. he is not a outright ball carrier nor is a fetcher. 
i do agree on notshe but the same concept applies to him as well. they need to identify which skillset they need to the overall pattern and focus on that alone....jack of all trades master of none rings true to mind when i think of both of them. 


OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 Nov 2015, 15:05
#35
09 Nov 2015, 15:05#35
CC - for the record, I think Meyer is still our best option. He's shown the willingness and ability to adapt the game plan as needed (Ellis Park tests) but I don't blame him for the approach that was taken in the playoffs - it was our best chance at winning and even though poorly executed it got us within 2 points.
I don't see any other domestic coach who could handle the job or who has the proven track record. Jake would never be offered the job, Mallet may or may not want it (he would surely let us know the minute he tuned it down). Ackermann is still green. Coetzee would actully probably be the front runner if a change were to be made - do we want that?

A foreign coach has yet to succeed even at the S15 level for a SA franchise. Why would it be different for the national team? The politics and pressure of the Bok head coach job would chew up a foreigner.
If anyone could do it - maybe Eddie Jones.....especially if he has a couple stellar years in charge of the Stormers.

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
09 Nov 2015, 15:19
#36
09 Nov 2015, 15:19#36
 FYI Dirty Cut, I have said that I reserve my opinion of Meyer until after the RWC. Hope that meets with your satisfaction, if not I'll have sleepless nights.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 Nov 2015, 15:34
#37
09 Nov 2015, 15:34#37
Plum - some valid points, and I think you nailed Meyer's main weakness ...... he cares too much about appeasing the public - both with selections and game plan. Needs to put the blinders on and the ear plugs in, push his chips to the center of the table and just go with what he believes in. Channel more of his inner Jake White and Bill Belichek (both of whom come off as jerks because they don't care what others think) Quit trying to be an every man.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Nov 2015, 17:32
#38
09 Nov 2015, 17:32#38
 oimatey
I think that the main problem was that Meyer made selections based on reputation with zero regard to performance.  There are too many of those players he carried along over the last four years - like Heinke van der Merwe, Willem Alberts, Ruan Pienaar, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Jacque Fourie, Jannie du Plessis and even Fourie du Preez and Jean de Villiers (after his horrible injury).  
Bakkies Botha and Gurthro Steenkamp opted out of international rugby.   Jacques Fourie first opted out and then arrived at the June training camp in a shocking physical condition.  Heinke van der Merwe was so shockingly poor in the game against the Aussies - Meyer had no option but to drop him.
Be it as it may after three years of fiddling around with retired and coming back players and selecting reputation players - Meyer announced a WC squad of really problematic players without any real form and a group of youngsters that basically had near to zero experience.   Take for instance the center pairing.  At the start of the WC De Allende had exactly three starting \game at inside center and Kriel the same at outside center.
Of the experienced players listed above the situation was as  follows with minimal game time this year:-
Fourie du PreezWillem AlbertsJean de Villiers
Du Preez had no meaningful games on the required level from June 2014 - when eh put in two very average performances for the Springboks.  The games played by Jean de Villiers and Willem Alberts (disgracefully poor on Super 15 level) and Alberts was not on par on test level - where Du Toit came on and in 20 minutes did more than Alberts did in 60 minutes.
Despite the hype and all the shouting and screaming on this site - the following had seriously problematic performances in Super 15 and in tests played over the past year:-
Victor MatfieldRuan PienaarJannie du Plessis
What really happened is that the public in general is sick and tired of the above shenanigans in team selection and the constant changes in the game plan,  The impression of the public was that the game plan was constantly changed to cater for the abilities of two many of the experienced players moving in and out of the squad.   Meyer went so far as to say the SA players do not have the skill set to play expansive games - what he should have said is that his favoured experienced players could not adjust their skills to cater for more comprehensive rugby.
I think it was a mixture of what the public regards as poor selections and a deficient game plan which was not applied consistently in any event that the public is now shouting and screaming that Meyer is not welcome as coach any longer.    
I think that Meyer is a better PRO than a coach and the public is not happy been told repeatedly that he was shocked by defeat against Japan - if he was not he was the only SA fan that was not shocked.
I think that Meyer's main problem is his excessive loyalty to some players - who never really repaid him for that loyalty and a believe in the game plan he used 10 years ago when he coached the Bulls.   He is not about to change if he is retained as coach and will simply repeat the mistakes he made insofar as a squad development for the WC is concerned.   There are enpugh indications that he is not about to change in his general conduct as a coach and I believe that would be his death knell as Springbok coach. 
   
       
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Nov 2015, 08:45
#39
10 Nov 2015, 08:45#39
 
Oopsie!!! The Clam Licker's not happy.

I seem to have upset his day ... to the point of developing a stutter!!!

Couldn't get those words down quick enough, huh?

Haaahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!

We can edit our posts now, son.

Nothing wrong with Meyer's passion and his emotional state.

What his emotional state has to do with being conservative is beyond me. Just the Clam Licker speaking through his blow hole again. Seems to make a habit of it.

Yes, yes, yes ... we all know by now that he doesn't have the required skill set to coach any rugby team ... believe it or not but the rest of us have been watching this soapie ... so there's really no need for the lecture ... ok?

The Broedersbond are prepared to put an incompetent fool in place and keep him there indefinitely just so that they can have a fingertip hold on some part of South African rugby.

They were hoping for a better result ... no doubt ... but sadly it wasn't to be.

Time to rid ourselves of this conservative, Dopper Kerk mentality and their incompetent puppet.

Yes Mike ... I too rate Notshe as a better prospect than Kolisi. What baffles me is that there are a host of talented players of colour in the country. There is no longer the need to select unmerited quotas for the national side.

Meyer couldn't even distinguish between the talented white players available so I guess expecting him to have his thumb on the pulse regarding players of colour was asking a bit much.

Matey ... I stand corrected. Even though I do not agree with you on Meyer's ability to lead our national side to greater things, I will however acknowledge that you do have a point regarding an alternative.

We do not have skilled or experienced coaches within the country to take over the reins ... not any that would lead us forward toward the Bok era we so hunger for.

And NO ... MOST DEFINITELY NOT ... we do not want Coetzee coming in and taking us back to the Stone Age. I'm not sure he's worse than Meyer but we do know that rugby isn't a strength of his.

Only alternative is to look abroad. I too would love to have Eddie Jones take over.


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
10 Nov 2015, 08:53
#40
10 Nov 2015, 08:53#40
 I'm not sure about the Broederbond nonsense but for the rest I have to agree.
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