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FORUM / RUGBY /  How are enjoying Riversdal Mike?

How are enjoying Riversdal Mike?

Started by generaltit50 REPLIES835 VIEWS· 11 Nov 2015, 16:37
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GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
11 Nov 2015, 16:37
#1
11 Nov 2015, 16:37#1
A bit different to Tinley Manor?

I must say I would would prefer the Cape in that region...I knew it fairly well when I was young...I loved Stilbaai...excellent fishing all around and the simple uncomplicated people...good solid people.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
11 Nov 2015, 17:00
#2
11 Nov 2015, 17:00#2
Ask Denise  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Nov 2015, 20:29
#3
11 Nov 2015, 20:29#3
 Seb
It is totally different from living in Tinley Manor Beach.   Riversdale is a very nice town to live in - but small enough for everyone to know everything about what is going on.  
Very peaceful with minimal crime.  I was very surprised how high the regard is among the Coloureds insofar as my family is concerned.   My mother had a rule that all farm labourers' children must be properly educated and most of them got matric or higher qualifications.  There are quite a number of them that made a real success of their lives and they are now much respected members of society in Riversdale.  They still respect my brother and myself highly and is very helpful all the time.
Insofar as the cost of living is concerned one has to look at the prices of meet and vegetables as an example - the prices are more or less half of what it was in Ballito and the quality is better.  
Riversdale is a place from where access to other areas are easy and I have been to Stilbaai, George, Mosselbaai, Oudshoorn, Calitzdorp, Ladysmith and Cape Town since moving here.  Also went through Sewe Weekspoort - one of the most spectacular places in SA.  Nice place to stay and visit some places in the area.  
I am very happy here and am working ceaselessly on the garden to make itthe most spectacular one in the town.   A very nice town to retire in.
Went to see school rugby at the Oakdale Agriculture High School when the played Boland Agricultural High School.   Oakdale (situated about 1,5 kms from my house is this year the number 10 rugby school in SA.  You should see th kids - they are huge - and they are very skillful players.  Hope they do not get spoiled by stupid coaching in future.         

         
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Nov 2015, 05:06
#4
12 Nov 2015, 05:06#4
Glad to hear it, Mike...it seems an ideal enviroment for those who enjoy the outdoor and simple life and having good schoolboy rugby on your doorstep is an additional bonus.

Those lads in the Boland/SW Districts have always been big oke's...I remember the oke's at Paarl, Stellenbosch, Swellendam, Mossel Bay and all these surrounding farming areas being monsters when I was at school...it must be the healthy lifestyle...the food, the activities and the soil...some things the city lads do not have!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2015, 05:25
#5
12 Nov 2015, 05:25#5
 Just a pity then, that unlike those farm workers, you never made Matric yourself Tokkie.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 05:46
#6
12 Nov 2015, 05:46#6
 Mozart
I passed matric with distinctions in two subjects - History and Accountancy and with B's and C's in all other subjects - so your allegation of not having matric is one of your standard lies.   
I still have the book price for History - donated by Dr H M van Rensburg - later Chairman of Parliament - the price being War and Peace by Lev Tolstoy.
Try and stay away from personal hate-speech - it makes yourself looks like the real ogre you are.      
     
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,280 posts
12 Nov 2015, 05:51
#7
12 Nov 2015, 05:51#7
Where is Bilbo these days? Last time I heard he was in Riverdale .

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2015, 06:00
#8
12 Nov 2015, 06:00#8
Even though Tolstoy's name was Lev, he was always Leo on every English translation. So if you have a War and Peace by Lev Tolstoy I'd send it to Sotheby' s to sell for a lot of money. Or perhaps you are just lying again and there is no book and there was no matric.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
12 Nov 2015, 06:01
#9
12 Nov 2015, 06:01#9
 Sharky ,Archie is in Riverdale courting Betty and Veronica .Bilbo is in Rivendell or was .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2015, 06:07
#10
12 Nov 2015, 06:07#10
 And Mike is in Riversdale courting Tom, Dick and Harry.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
12 Nov 2015, 06:36
#11
12 Nov 2015, 06:36#11
 Mike, it may be the way you talk in SA but what you say about the "Coloureds" sounds extremely condescending and racist. It sounds like you are surprised that they are capable of respecting anyone or anything!!Perhaps not how you meant to portray it but to a Kiwi, well it made me squirm mate!!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 06:50
#12
12 Nov 2015, 06:50#12
 Uncivilized crud is what you specialize in.   Tolstoy's real name was translated by the English to Leo and I used his real Russian name.  War and peace was written in Russian - you stupid old fart and that is a fact of life.  
Anyway take a look at the following - you may find something to learn about Tolstoy and his ancestry:-
  http://www.cyberspacei.com/jesusi/authors/tolstoy/works/his_life_and_work1.htm#_Toc533829986
Why was the Grand Duke Vasiliy Tyomniy given his second name for instance.   Ask Seb - he is likely to know the answer.   
And obviously also the rubbish you constantly wrote about me is showing what a real lowlife character you are.        
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2015, 14:46
#13
12 Nov 2015, 14:46#13
 No English translation will have Lev Tolstoy on the cover....so I guess you are saying you got War And Peace in Russian as a school prize. Forgive me if I think you are lying thro ugh your teeth.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Nov 2015, 14:54
#14
12 Nov 2015, 14:54#14
 Moolaa in this case I have to support Mike. The "Coloured" people are a distinct racial group in South Africa that have official status, sometimes referred to as the "Cape Coloured" group. The term clearly has racial origins from the Colonial days, but in theory is now no more racist than referring to people as "Black" in America. Oddly in the old South Africa the American Blacks would probably have been categorized as Coloureds.
I don't think Mike meant any disrespect. The rest of us wouldn't condone racism on this forum which sees only rugby players, not racial groups.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Nov 2015, 14:57
#15
12 Nov 2015, 14:57#15
 Who fcuked up the margins again, Huh? 
KA
KalaedFreddieClub Pro495 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:10
#16
12 Nov 2015, 15:10#16
 RE: How are enjoying Riversdal Mike?
November 12, 2015, 06:36:42

 Mike, it may be the way you talk in SA but what you say about the "Coloureds" sounds extremely condescending and racist. 

It sounds like you are surprised that they are capable of respecting anyone or anything!!Perhaps not how you meant to portray it but to a Kiwi, well it made me squirm mate!!
************************************************************************
His real "colours" do come out now and again - but he's not the only racist on the board.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:35
#17
12 Nov 2015, 15:35#17
I will ask my wife Elena...she will know why? I don't know.

All I can find is this...but I know it's common in Russia...name changes are common...Stalin (means Steel in Russian or man of steel ) who was not Russian but Georgian was  Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili...



Chapter I The Ancestors Of Leo Tolstoy On His Father's Side
The history of the Counts Tolstoy presents a picture of an ancient and noble family descending, according to the accounts of genealogists, from the good and true man Indris, who came from Germany to Chernigov in 1353 with his two sons and a retinue of 3,000 men; he was baptized and received the name of Leonty; he became the founder of several noble families. His great-grandchild, Andrey Kharitonovich, who moved from Chernigov to Moscow and received from the Grand Duke Vasiliy Tyomniy the surname of Tolstoy, was the founder of the branch known to us as the Tolstoys (in which branch Count Lev Tolstoy was born in the twentieth generation from the founder Indris).

Russian names can be confusing to us westerners...a first name like my wifes Elena can also be Helena or Yelena...or just Lena but it is not etiquette to call Lena to somebody you are not close to. Michael is not used but Mikhail and affectionately Misha but if you met Mikhail Gorbachev it would be impolite to call him Misha unless you were close to him. Basil is Vasili and so on.

Surnames are another story...the females always have an a at the end like Sharapova but Marina's dad is Mr Sharapov. The daughter always inherits her fathers name as a middle name...her dad is Dmitri so her middle name is Dmitrinova and so on.

It is further complicated by their Cyrillic alphabet.




























































































































CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:46
#18
12 Nov 2015, 15:46#18
 Freddie
I am no racist - never was.  The fact I did refer to the Coloureds were because that is a group of people neglected by the previous Government - but not by my family and that is why they are so highly regarded in the local community.   I am sorry if it sounds racist - and apologize for that.    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 15:58
#19
12 Nov 2015, 15:58#19
 Seb
I think your question refers to Grand Duke Vasiliy Tyomniy and the reason for the second name.    As far as I could make out - according to Wikipedia - Grand Duke Vassily II was faced by a family revolt and as a result he was blinded by his cousin who claimed the throne.  Tyomniy apparently referred to "dark" in ancient Russian.  He was blinded - hence the name given to him to distinguish him from his father and son.  He reurned and became Grand Duke again after he was blinded and reigned with the help of his son and the Metroppolitan of the Russian orthodox Chuech after he was in fact blinded. 
The Russian names and usage are one of the reasons why I found reading War and Peace initially so difficult.   I understand the usage now and got it basically  from the explanation given in War and Peace.
  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Nov 2015, 16:14
#20
12 Nov 2015, 16:14#20
 Mozart
The translated version was by Lousie and Aylmer Maude 
The first paragragh read as follows:-
"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes.  But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war, if you try and defend the infamous and horrors perpetrated by the Antichrist - I really believe he is the Antichrist - I will hve nothing more to do with you and you re no longer my "faithful slave" as you call yourself!  But how do you do?  I see I havve frightened you - sit down and tell me all the news.
It was in July 1805 and the speaker was the well-known Anna Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honour and favourite of the Empress Marya Federovna.   With these words she greeted Prince Vasili ...."
Now that you have again been exposed as a liar and a slanderer - you may as well go and hide your stupid head in shame.    What a low life creature you are.    
   
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
12 Nov 2015, 16:16
#21
12 Nov 2015, 16:16#21
Mike, thank you for input on your family history...very interesting indeed.

And yes Mike has his faults just like we all do but he's a good guy...I bet if you showed him some respect he would would change...which is something that a lot of you do not....all puffed up with a swarm of bees in your bonnets...he certainly does not come across as racialistic...that's total shi te...
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Nov 2015, 03:52
#22
13 Nov 2015, 03:52#22
 Well Pervert here is the translation you reference ...No sign of "Lev" Tolstoy. Another fantasy it seems.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 06:04
#23
13 Nov 2015, 06:04#23
 Well - stupid idiot - in Russia there never lived a person by the name of Leo Tolstoy - but there did live a person by the name of Lev Nicholaevich Tolstoy - the writer of War and Peace.   So because you did not know the real name of the writer of War and Peace, you kicked up a hell of the lot of noise when I used the real name of the writer - not the name used in English speaking countries.  What an ignorant fool you are - a real liar and slanderer as well.
As ignorant you are about rugby - so ignorant you are in this case.               
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Nov 2015, 07:14
#24
13 Nov 2015, 07:14#24
 Yes Vlag, I can only view the left half of the page, yet I saw nothing wrong with the thread you fcked up. On my laptop nothing wrong with this or other threads. I run no add blocks on my phone or LT and Chrome is set up the same on both. This site is very sensitive to input.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
13 Nov 2015, 07:35
#25
13 Nov 2015, 07:35#25
In Moscow and in Russia Leo Tolstoy is written as Lev and never Leo but Russians are awake people and are intelligent and understand...very much more of them understand English and speak, read and write it...sadly only very few English speaking nations can speak Russian...it's very difficult because of alphabet and pronounciation with stresses but no more difficult than to learn Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese or Georgian languages...Dutch, German, French, Spanish etc is a piece of cake compared to the above.

Leo is Lev in Russia...period.

The history of the Counts Tolstoy presents a picture of an ancient and noble family descending, according to the accounts of genealogists, from the good and true man Indris, who came from Germany to Chernigov in 1353 with his two sons and a retinue of 3,000 men; he was baptized and received the name of Leonty; he became the founder of several noble families. His great-grandchild, Andrey Kharitonovich, who moved from Chernigov to Moscow and received from the Grand Duke Vasiliy Tyomniy the surname of Tolstoy, was the founder of the branch known to us as the Tolstoys (in which branch Count Lev Tolstoy was born in the twentieth generation from the founder Indris).

And from this stage it took 4 generations to Lev (Leo) Tolstoy.

Mike,I've asked Elena your question...WHY THE GRAND DUKE (PRINCE) VASILIY (BASIL) TYOMNIY CHANGED ANDREY KHARITONOVICH'S TO TOLSTOY?

She doesn't know WHY but will try and find out...I just guess it was some sort of aristocratic wim or fancy...that's what I think.

Of course on an English book Leo would be used and not Lev but in Russia it would be Lev and most certainly not Leo.

T(C)zar Basil on the otherhand would not appear Tsar Vasili (y) in English...Nicholas is Nikolai and as I have said before spelling can change.

When in Rome do what the Romans do...In motherland it is Lev and in most foreign lands it's Leo.

It's a silly argument quite frankly.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 08:00
#26
13 Nov 2015, 08:00#26
 Seb
I accept that there is no real reason other than an aristocratic whim the name of Tolstoy was used.   There is or was as far as I know no town or city named Tolstoy in Russia that could have resulted in the name-change, such as is the case with most noble families in Europe.
What did your wife say about the Grand Duke Vassiliy II having the name of Tyomniy added to his name by common use at the time in Russia.  Was my explanation correct?
I agree the argument is silly.  I know that Toltsoy in western countries is known as Leo Tolstoy - but used the Russian version of the name in what I wrote,  I was really surprised by the reaction of Mozart - since he started an argument about rubbish in this case.   He will try and discredit anybody who differs from him on anything by all means imaginable.
    
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
13 Nov 2015, 13:15
#27
13 Nov 2015, 13:15#27
Oops.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Nov 2015, 15:46
#28
13 Nov 2015, 15:46#28
 Yep and I suppose Eric Blair wrote 1984. Look Pervert you claim you have a Maude translation War and Peace by Lev Tolstoy.....There is no Maude translation W and P by Lev....every one of those would have Leo Tolstoy on the cover. Which strongly suggests you don't have th at book. Case closed.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 17:34
#29
13 Nov 2015, 17:34#29
You are talking absolute crap and that is a fact .  You are a liar and slanderer anyway.  I quoted the first paragraph of the book and part of the second paragraph and you - stupid bastard - still pretends you know something - while in fact you know nothing about things and pretend you do.  Useless bloody liar and slanderer.
I certainly have the book and if you look at the works of Aylmer and Lousie Maude - you will find War and Peace in their list of works,   Go and read Wikipedia on them - maybe you would wake up to the fact that you constantly talk rubbish. 
Why do you always write absolute BS before you think - you stupid old fool and liar.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Nov 2015, 21:49
#30
13 Nov 2015, 21:49#30
  Right off the internet archive...no need to copy it incorrectly at the library. Your little copy job proves nothing....if you have a book by Lev Tolstoy, show us the cover////plank:

WELL, PRINCE, so Genoa and Lucca are now 
just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I 
warn you, if you don't tell me that this means 
war, if you still try to defend the infamies and 
horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist I real- 
ly believe he is Antichrist I will have nothing 
more to do with you and you are no longer my 
friend, no longer my 'faithful slave,' as you 
call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have 
frightened you sit down and tell me all the 
news." 

It was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the 
well-known Anna Pdvlovna Sch^rer, maid of 
honor and favorite of the Empress Marya Fe- 
dorovna. With these words she greeted Prince 
Vasili Kurdgin, a man of high rank and impor- 
tance, who was the first to arrive at her recep- 
tion. Anna Pdvlovna had had a cough for some 
days. She was, as she said, suffering from la 
grippe; grippe being then a new word in St. 
Petersburg, used only by the elite. 

All her invitations without exception, writ- 
ten in French, and delivered by a scarlet-liver- 
ied footman that morning, ran as follows: 

"If you have nothing better to do, Count [or 
Prince], and if the prospect of spending an 
evening with a poor invalid is not too terrible, 
I shall be very charmed to see you tonight be- 
tween 7 and 10 Annette Sch^rer." 

"Heavens! what a virulent attack!" replied 
the prince, not in the least disconcerted by this 
reception. He had just entered, wearing an em- 
broidered court uniform, knee breeches, and 
shoes, and had stars on his breast and a serene 
expression on his flat face. He spoke in that 
refined French in which our grandfathers not 
only spoke but thought, and with the gentle, 
patronizing intonation natural to a man of 
importance who had grown old in society and 
at court. He went up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed 
her hand, presenting to her his bald, scented, 
and shining head, and complacently seated 
himself on the sofa. 

"First of all, dear friend, tell me how you 



are. Set your friend's mind at rest," said he 
without altering his tone, beneath the polite- 
ness and affected sympathy of which indiffer- 
ence and even irony could be discerned. 

"Can one be well while suffering morally? 
Can one be calm in tirrfes like these if one has 
any feeling?" said Anna Pdvlovna. "You are 
staying the whole evening, I hope?" 

"And the fete at the English ambassador's? 
Today is Wednesday. I must put in an appear- 
ance there," said the prince. "My daughter is 
coming for me to take me there." 

"I thought today's fete had been canceled. 
I confess all these festivities and fireworks are 
becoming wearisome." 

"If they had known that you wished it, the 
entertainment would have been put off," said 
the prince, who, like a wound-up clock, by 
force of habit said things he did not even wish 
to be believed. 

"Don't tease! Well, and what has been de- 
cided about Novosiltsev's dispatch? You know 
everything." 

"What can one say about it?" replied the 
prince in a cold, listless tone. "What has been 
decided? They have decided that Buonaparte 
has burnt his boats, and I believe that we are 
ready to burn ours." 

Prince Vastti always spoke languidly, like 
an actor repeating a stale part. Anna Pdvlovna 
Scherer on the contrary, despite her forty years, 
overflowed with animation and impulsiveness. 
To be an enthusiast had become her social vo- 
cation and, sometimes even when she did not 
feel like it, she became enthusiastic in order 
not to disappoint the expectations of those 
who knew her. The subdued smile which, 
though it did not suit her faded features, al- 
ways played round her lips expressed, as in a 
spoiled child, a continual consciousness of her 
charming defect, which she neither wished, nor 
could, nor considered it necessary, to correct. 


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 23:11
#31
13 Nov 2015, 23:11#31
 Mozart
- You lying lowlife.
Dont you realize - you stupid idiot - the the name of Tolstoy as recorded in Russia is Lev N Tolstoy - that is the name used in Russia where he wrote War and Peace.  Leo is the name given in the English vernacular.  The mans real name was LEV N TOLSTOY and beingt better eduicated in language and culture than you would ever be - low life - I used the writers real name.   But that is not the real issue here.
The issue you got is that as a liar you pretend I do not own the book.  If I did not have the book I would not make a quote from the internet containing errors that you had the audacity to produce on this site/  What a clown and idiot you are - you stupid old fart.
"Prince Vastti always spoke languidly, like an actor repeating a stale part. Anna Pdvlovna Scherer on the contrary, despite her forty years, overflowed with animation and impulsiveness. To be an enthusiast had become her social vo- cation and, sometimes even when she did not feel like it, she became enthusiastic in order not to disappoint the expectations of those who knew her. The subdued smile which, though it did not suit her faded features, al- ways played round her lips expressed, as in a spoiled child, a continual consciousness of her charming defect, which she neither wished, nor could, nor considered it necessary, to correct.:
Who the hell is Pri nce Vastti you stupid old clown?

"ly believe" - did you see that in what I quoted - fool. 
It must be terrible to be always a hate-filled nincumpoop - a liar a low-life and a ignorant useless fart - who pretends he knows something about rugby as well - where he has been proved to be an utter fool as well.  

    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Nov 2015, 23:11
#32
13 Nov 2015, 23:11#32
Lowlife Mozart 
Let me just add - dumb idiot that you apparently never read War and Peace anyway - so what is the use of writing anything about that one.  A liar you are and every time you open your stupid mouth you become a b igger liar and fool. 
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
14 Nov 2015, 02:27
#33
14 Nov 2015, 02:27#33
  634 × 384 - dailymail.co.uk
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2015, 03:06
#34
14 Nov 2015, 03:06#34
On the contrary....I have read Crime and Punishment, Anna Karenina, the Cancer Ward, The Brothers Karamazov, And Quiet Flows the Don, Doctor Zhivago, The Idiot, Fathers and Sons and War and Peace....to name a few Russian novels. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2015, 03:22
#35
14 Nov 2015, 03:22#35
 All you have to do is show us the cover of that book with Lev Tolstoy as the author.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Nov 2015, 04:39
#36
14 Nov 2015, 04:39#36
 You dumb bloody idiot and Liar - as well as slanderer - the Book I got had no picture on its cover.   Reason - it was a had-cover edition - not the cheap junk you specialize in.  I had seen one translation - which was not even remotely near the real translation by the Maude's - with a picture on the cover and a soft cover - that is the one you probably read.  
The following is true about the translation you read - skunk:-
"Maude wanted to publish a complete collected works of Tolstoy and enlisted his friends and acquaintances to help campaign for funding and support. There were many competing editions of the more popular works, some of them "very incompetent," according to Bernard Shaw, since Tolstoy had waived his rights over translation. Shaw wrote to The Times asking readers to support the project by "spontaneously giving it the privileges of a copyright edition" and "subscribing for complete sets" to make up for the "miscarriage of Tolstoy's public-spirited intentions." Shaw's signature was followed by many more, including literary figures likeArnold BennettArthur Conan DoyleGilbert Murray and H. G. WellsThomas Hardy added his own independent letter, offering support though he did not feel equipped to comment on all the points in the main letter.[24]

After a protesting letter from an admirer of Constance Garnett's translations, the correspondence continued, with Maude asserting that "Tolstoy authorized my wife's translation" of Resurrection and Shaw insisting on the need for a complete collected works, going beyond the "great novels" which were "sure to get themselves translated everywhere," since other translators had "picked the plums out of the pudding." He went on to compare Maude's "devoted relation" to Tolstoy with that of Henrik Ibsen's translator William Archer, or Richard Wagner's Ashton Ellis."

Look skunk - I never lied about myself - I did not get to be a low-borne uncivilized skunk like you pretending you are the greatest thing in life.   You may have made money in your life - but that does not make you a human being - you still are a skunk and an insult to humanity.  



        





      .   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2015, 05:08
#37
14 Nov 2015, 05:08#37
 So you know what translation I read. Because you once saw a paper back War and Peace with pictures.  Were you in the kid's section again Pervert?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2015, 05:14
#38
14 Nov 2015, 05:14#38
 No pictures, gosh, however did you cope. Never mind just the title and author on the binding will do.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Nov 2015, 05:16
#39
14 Nov 2015, 05:16#39
 A blank input from a skunk and liar supremo.  In plain words FO
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2015, 05:32
#40
14 Nov 2015, 05:32#40
 The Maude edition...no Lev
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