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Jakes Latest Shenanigans

Started by clevermike40 REPLIES605 VIEWS· 28 May 2015, 09:04
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 09:04
#1
28 May 2015, 09:04#1

Jake has turned Montpellier into the latest Rugby destination for South Africans and Australians.   He fired 19 players - including Meisiekind (Wynantjie), but refrained from doing a Sharks a favour by taking over his pal - Fransie.


He also took Paul Willemse is going over from Grenoble.       

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 10:32
#2
28 May 2015, 10:32#2

Who is Paul Williams?


I take it you mean Paul Willemse?


I know young Sharks number 9, Wright has joined and the du Plessis brothers are meant to be going, even though they don't like Jake......but for them its the end of the careers and the money no doubt negates their feelings towards Jake the snake  

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 May 2015, 12:28
#3
28 May 2015, 12:28#3
Yes, Jake you are such a weasel. Who could imagine a man could stoop so low as to explore the market for potential talent. The IRB needs to hold a crisis meeting as soon as humanly possible; one cannot fathom the ramifications this could have on world sport, such is the severity of these uncharted waters.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 May 2015, 12:31
#4
28 May 2015, 12:31#4
Get real Michael, the ANC - who has done NOTHING in all the years it has *shudders* existed - has turned the rest of the planet into relocation points. Do you think that demanding 50% representation of black players in the starting XV won't have an impact on a rugby players outlook of the country? Lets face it, South Africa is a dirty, ugly country. The only exceptions being areas which are unpopulated. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 12:34
#5
28 May 2015, 12:34#5
 Letsal
He can take whomsover he pleases, but I think he is still going to come short.  His style of rugby is not being played in France anymore and the players he is taking over to France is going to find that they would have to adept or they would be out of the club together with White. 
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 May 2015, 12:46
#6
28 May 2015, 12:46#6
Jake plays modern rugby, if you don't adhere to those principles then you don't play winning rugby. To intimate that it's something of a bygone era and obselete is a disgusting and ultimately tragic fail on your part.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 13:34
#7
28 May 2015, 13:34#7
 Jake plays modern rugby???? I am laughing my ass off - what a classic. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 13:56
#8
28 May 2015, 13:56#8
Yeah about as modern as  Bob Marley and the Wailers 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 May 2015, 14:14
#9
28 May 2015, 14:14#9
I was mistaken about Jake White initially...thought he was a good coach and was unaware of hidden motives and agendas but I should have known better...he fooled a lot of people including some of the  players in the Sharks except perhaps Keegan Daniel Lost respect for both him and John Smit...the treatment of Keegan after the way John Plumtree was stabbed in the back.

Distrust followed and cancerous vibes infiltrated the spirit in the players...the result is that the Sharks don't look like a high spirited happy team...one gets that vibe...dis spirited attempts at defending is a sign that appears in the side now...the defense is sub standard.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2015, 14:23
#10
28 May 2015, 14:23#10

Waaahahahahahahahahaha.....the same tired old Sharks story. Daniels was right, it's Jake's fault Esterhuizen is slower than a bus with a flat tyre.....Paul Williams is a former Bools lock.

 

 

The fact is Jake took the Sharks much further than their talent should have taken them.....and since he left, starting with the CC, they imploded.

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 May 2015, 14:41
#11
28 May 2015, 14:41#11
Well thats just the point..Jake... a quick fix a short term high risk...well the gamble did appear to come off at first but later cracks started to appear ..an opportunist using one of the highest brand in Super rugby...wanted the accolade...but used the players as pawns...the cost was high. Now the Sharks hierachy go into a flat spin and recruit spent hasbeens hoping that a bit of experience will see them through but it has back-fired...Gary Teichmann gave the answer for remedy...I'm not going going to repeat...it appeared in another thread posted by I think my NZ friend Dr Win.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
28 May 2015, 14:47
#12
28 May 2015, 14:47#12
 Jake's corrections are not short term, as you can see at the Brumbies they are still reaping the rewards of his work. However, Australians are not lazy like their South African counterparts and can maintain structures. The Sharks on the other hand were self-important and not talented enough to play a more attacking game. Jake's model is the one that yields sustained success. What Dave and Mike want are what Twakkie dished up.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 15:12
#13
28 May 2015, 15:12#13

Actually Jake had all the players at his disposal unlike the average Gold who's squad has been running at 60% all season.


Big difference, Jake would have done no better with Gold's squad right now.


As for Esterhuizen being so slow, I somehow doubt that is the case given he started on the wing last week.


Moz get your eyes tested man. 


As for Jake, he plays boring kicking rugby......look no further than the thrashing the Saders handed out to the Sharks in last years semi......modern rugby my arse  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 15:24
#14
28 May 2015, 15:24#14
 Mozart is hilarious - what a sense of humour:-
"Esterhuizen is slower than a bus with a flat tyre."
Since Fransie is slower than Esterhuizen - is he  slower than a bus with two flat tyres?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 15:26
#15
28 May 2015, 15:26#15

If Esterhuizen was that slow, would he have started on the wing a week ago? 


Case closed as they say......unless slow is a prerequisite for wing play these days????????????

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 May 2015, 15:38
#16
28 May 2015, 15:38#16
Jake's ability to read the game and coach might have been acceptable to some and some merit but it's the deceit and the now very apparent aftermath that bedevils the Shark camp.

The way this was handled was terribly wrong...and has been a set back in the camp.

The whole situation needs a complete overhaul to restore trust, integrity and pride in the outfit...more good youngsters from the Academy...Vodacom to come through in stages of development...old players to be phased out sensibly and there should be good talent scouts for potential prospects...it seems that management lack the ability to purchase new potential is a problem.

There is no quick fix...a longer term plan is needed but unfortunately the fans are just as impatient...too little planning is done in the longer term...the same problem we have with HM.

Ackermann's strategy works...he took a bunch of young players and the huge turnaround is starting to happen...watch the Lions next year. Just don't forget 2 years ago the Lions were expelled for Supers and in the pits.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 15:45
#17
28 May 2015, 15:45#17

Well Seb given his average Bok record and the fact that leading up to the WC, his record was so poor that he was on the verge of the boot, I fail to see what the fuss is about when it comes to Jake as a coach.


Lets face it, he needed Eddie Jones to save him in the WC, coupled with a talented group of players and an easy ride to the final.


Jake was never a great coach, average at best......marginally better than PDV but not as good as Mallett, McIntosh  and Kitch.....not even close. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2015, 17:27
#18
28 May 2015, 17:27#18
All of Australian rugby is benefitting from Jake's stint at the Brumbies.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 May 2015, 17:28
#19
28 May 2015, 17:28#19
How do you work that out Moz, Oz have slipped down the rankings and the Brumbies keep winning without Jake  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 May 2015, 18:50
#20
28 May 2015, 18:50#20
 Yes indeed Jake got the Brumbies right just like he got the Boks right - what a tradgedy  jake did not continue after the wolrd cup!!!!!!!!! We got the complete hatter ou pdv!!!Jake then got the hapless sharks into the semis with more injuries than this years lot. Its hard to fault Master Jake who schooled both sir john and sir graham..
Seb please oak if you have any facts for us please present them. You present nothing substantive re Jake. 
The facts speak for themselves in the same way the facts show the self serving anc have been a total disaster.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
28 May 2015, 22:03
#21
28 May 2015, 22:03#21
With a clean slate, obvious power over personnel decisions, a big bankroll and proven ability to communicate and implement a cohesive game plan is there any doubt where Jake will take Montpelier? 
It won't be long before he has another international post IMO, possibly not long after this WC. His last chapter has yet to be written and when it is done, he may well prove to be the best coach SA has ever produced.
He certainly has far more credibility than "What have you done lately" Nick "The Mouth" Mallett who sits comfortably behind the commentary box. 
The fact that the du Plessis brothers are willing to play under him instead of at Toulon surely indicates that the environment at the Sharks was nowhere near as toxic as some are saying. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 22:56
#22
28 May 2015, 22:56#22
 oimatey
Jake White is not the only person involved in the toxic environment at the Sharks.  He was only part of the management in developing and nurturing that environment.   The problem really started with John Smit.
The latter stabbed Plumtree in the back so as to bring in Venter as coach and some of his playing cronies, who were passed it and whose contracts with Clubs not have been removed - a classic case of jobs-for-pals.   Venter did not last long, but he added to it by  accepting the bringing in of other cronies of Smit as Assistant coaches.  Venter then decided to concentrate on his medical practice and Jake White - after not getting the Aussie coaching job he was aspiring to - broke his contract with the Brumbies and accepted the job at the Sharks.
Jake accepted a poisoned chalice - and promptly added to it by destroying what was left of the team spirit of the team.   He did a dirty on Keegan Daniel and pushed him out of the team completely.   This was likely done at the behest of his favourite player Francois Steyn.   I am saying this because after Steyn acted as interim captain for four matches in 2013 - Plumtree got Daniel back asap and then dropped Steyn from the Sharks starting line - up because of obvious performance inadequacies.   This was followed by the attack on Daniel based on divisions caused in the team by the Afri ka ans language issue.   That story came from inside the squad - but was vehemently denied by Afr ka ans speaking players and Daniel himself.   The question is who inside the squad caused that story to be leaked to the media and the likely source were Steyn or one of his small clique of players.
Be it as it may with White's arrival he was 100% on the side of Steyn and whenever the Sharks under-perform the players was treated harshly by White - while if Steyn fouled up nothing was said.   There is ample evidence of that happening  and in the end the majority of players were completely fed up with the situation.  Those whose contracts were up for renewal refused to sign a new contract and in the end the bitter factionalism in the team caused White's resignation.
Rugby is a team game and you cannot have a factionalized team performing well in any competition.  That problem of factionalism was to date not really solved AND WILL ONLY BE SOLVED THROUGH A SYSTEM OF TEAM RENEWAL - ie once the source of the poison has been removed.                  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2015, 22:56
#23
28 May 2015, 22:56#23

Duplicated          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2015, 01:23
#24
29 May 2015, 01:23#24
Spot on Matey  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 May 2015, 01:29
#25
29 May 2015, 01:29#25
 Jake is not a coach to give players free reign. He is far better friends with Schalk than he has ever been with Frans, and he wasn't afraid to drop Schalk telling him to clean up his act! There is no evidence to suggest anything you say is true Michael, it's just another warped narrative to sully the names of people you personally don't like.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2015, 01:56
#26
29 May 2015, 01:56#26
 So Jake did not pushed out Daniel - a player respected by the players.  There was no media reports on the so-called Afri ka ans players issue.  There was no public embracing of White by Steyn, after which White ignored all the other players on the sideline.  There was no refusal of players to sign renewal contracts while White was coach.
Just one question - why after the departure of Fransie to Japan - did the team start performing much better in the CC?  
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 May 2015, 02:16
#27
29 May 2015, 02:16#27
The team got smoked in the CC. I don't buy any of the nonsense you are canvasing. You are trying very hard to create an impression you use to c oerce people into hating Frans and Jake as much as you do.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2015, 02:22
#28
29 May 2015, 02:22#28
 I do not hate anyone - I just see what they do and get annoyed with petty-minded rubbish.  Sure they did not win the CC, but the performances they put up was different and vastly better than the rubbish they played with Jake around. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2015, 02:57
#29
29 May 2015, 02:57#29
 Just the girls in the provincial administration gossiping....losers  all.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 May 2015, 03:32
#30
29 May 2015, 03:32#30
The "rubbish" they played under Jake kept them in first place for almost all of the regular season Michael. When last did they ever come close to that? 2007. You have no perspective. Moz, agreed. Frans is a team man who is well liked and respected. I'll take that over unnamed sources everytime.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2015, 07:22
#31
29 May 2015, 07:22#31
 Very few players respect him because of his attitude and the way he tried to take precedence over and boss around all other players.  He is an arrogant person with an ego that is so bad that it upset his team mates. 
I gave proof of what I said - but the too biggest liars and BSters on the site believe their own fairy tales.  That outburst in the Springbok squad was typical - money that SARU owed him was the reason given - but was it so?   Nobody believe that and the reason was he was about to be played from the bench at best because of poor performances throughout 2014.   Meyer is a fool - but you two beat him by a distance.  Fransie lost his contract with SARU and that was also the result of sub-par  performances - not anything else.      
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2015, 08:47
#32
29 May 2015, 08:47#32
 To add to the misery of the two biggest liars on the site the following from News24:-
"The agent of Springbok brothers, Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis, has confirmed that the Sharks duo will play their rugby outside of South Africa after the 2015 Rugby World Cup.

That club is likely to be French club Montpellier, where former Springbok and Sharks coach Jake White is at the helm.


The brothers’ agent, Gerrie Swart, told The Mercury newspaper that their move will be “out of South Africa”.


Swart said playing for another South African franchise was never a consideration. He said their likely destination would be Montpellier as that is the only club he’s been in contact with. Swart, though, admitted that “paperwork has not been fully attended to”.


It is well-documented that the brothers’ relationship with White was not the best and according to The Mercury, they wanted to get out of their commitment with Montpellier (a deposit of €150 000 per player had reportedly been paid to them) once they heard White had become coach of the French club."


Another proof of Jake White's poor relationship with the majority of players in the Sharks squad  - so everything I wrote is rubbish and the BS fairy tales of the sleaziest liars are true.   White ostracized most players and allowed Steyn to cuddle up to him.  Major problem and that is a fact.


White has contracted a number of players from SA - but he did not contract Steyn.  The reason is plain and simple - the players would not sign up with Steyn in the same club  and no French Club would have Steyn - because of his past history with Racing Metro.


Your hero is unwelcome and not a team player - end of story.     


DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 May 2015, 11:47
#33
29 May 2015, 11:47#33
What utter speculative nonsense. And to be quite honest with you I couldn't care less whether Jannie and dik-bek Bissie liked or disliked White. We are talking about a player who publicly threw tantrums because he got subbed, multiple times. And you dare speak of Frans being a poor team player, the same player who gave up kicking responsibilities because he knew it helped Lambie settle into a game and build confidence. Get real Michael. As far as I'm concerned the du Plessis brothers are part of the rot at the Sharks, and closer to home of the player power that has eaten away at the team than you will ever admit. The only mistake Jake made was not clearing the whole lot out like the Brumbies did prior to his tenure. They gave into it and are now languishing in one of their worst seasons in a decade. Are you happy now? Apparently so, you claim the shackles are off, now that they have conceded more than 50% more tries and scored one more than the same time last year and now that discipline has deteriorated into something reflecting the darkest regions of hell itself. Y es, do tell me how Jake is so backward and the whole rugby world hates him and Steyn is evil. 
HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
31 May 2015, 13:50
#34
31 May 2015, 13:50#34
 Actually the latest Brumbies success is due to the hard working Larkam than any structures White left behind. Because of that Larkam has been invited to partner Cheika in taking the Wallabies to the RWC.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 May 2015, 15:49
#35
31 May 2015, 15:49#35
The Brumbies are benefitting from Jake's work, last year Lark struggled trying to loosen the reigns a bit, be more off the cuff, but he has seen sense.
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
31 May 2015, 19:29
#36
31 May 2015, 19:29#36
Whether Jake Whites tenure with the Sharks was a good thing or not can be argued on result orientated mindsets...it was only short term anyway...a quick fix...rugby is a 15 man game and not 10 men....10 man is starting to plague rugby in a sense...yes you can adopt the 10 man style to surprise the opponent away...when a team like the French who are known for for there expansive game change tactics to the 10 man game it can take your opponent by surprise and has done but 10 man rugby is a curse....why are 15 players in a side, what is the function of the extra hangers on....kickers and hopefully catches...but intended bumblers by the kicker opposition ...a scourge to the game...NZ always plays 15 man rugby...the benefits can clearly be seen by their results.

Having said that...JW appeared to use the Sharks for further self glory...left them long before his contract expired...if the Sharks had won the final he undoubtably would have stayed...even that is really is what not leaves a nasty taste in one's mouth...to me it's the way the whole thing happened...the way Plum was dismissed (not Jakes direct fault, obviously but Smit and Co but a sort of conspiracy...the disrespect shown to Keegan after this servant had done for the Sharks and the bad vibes that resulted in the schoolmaster tactics...amongst grown men.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
31 May 2015, 19:36
#37
31 May 2015, 19:36#37
There is no such thing as 10 man rugby. But anyway, the Sharks were scoring tries fine until the injuries starting kicking in, and a team with limited talent amongst the backs was stretched beyond itself. That was the problem. Jake can't work literal miracles, but he got an average team with an aging core to perform beyond it's inherent ability. Gold bought into this nonsense that The Sharks were loaded with attacking potential and suffered the consequences.  
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
31 May 2015, 19:47
#38
31 May 2015, 19:47#38
Of course 10 man rugby is a term used for a particular strategy or style...scoring tries is no proof to whether this strategy was used or not...incidentallly 10 man rugby style can be used effectively when it is not the expected style or strategy expected from a certain sides normal style...10 man rugby style is destroying the game when it becomes the norm or order of the day..if you get my drift.

Ten man rugby is an extreme style of play in rugby union in which the side uses the power of its forwards to dominate possession scrums and line-outs, and kicking ability of its fly-half to attain position. The 4 three-quarter backs and the full back are not usually then used in attack, and if they are this is usually restricted to the inside centre on the crash ball, and chasing kicks, especially garryowens. It is very conservative style of play, and not particularly entertaining for the spectator, but can be effective if a team has a strong pack and a good 10, and perhaps less effective backs. The term "ten man rugby" is somewhat derogatory, though most teams will employ these tactics to a degree, especially in foul weather, but usually not exclusively
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
01 Jun 2015, 21:20
#39
01 Jun 2015, 21:20#39
Mike -  "Reports in French press says that Spies will leave the Bulls and play for Montpellier on a two year contract and that White is close to signing Springbok utility back Frans Steyn."


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
02 Jun 2015, 00:59
#40
02 Jun 2015, 00:59#40
 Good luck to both.  They will definitely not strengthen Montpellier.  Those reports would basically ensure that the Du Plessis would try harder to get out of their Montpellier commitment.  The only thing that will keep them to the commitments they gave would be the R4 500 00 they were already paid.
The brothers have one clear requirement.   They will until retirement only sign agreements where both of them go to the same club.  They are as family particularly close to each other - a very good characteristic.   But because one is a better proposition than the other - that may be a stumbling block with most of the clubs.  
I would hate to see Fransie and Jane playing for Montpellier - a classical French city  which deserve better.   They would not get anywhere with those two additions.  Poor Ebersohn will suffer with Steyn and Catrakillis inside him and also the snotty nasty piece of sh!t Nic White.  
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