JJ makes more than one metre

Moz are you saying the Bulls play an open expansive attacking style of rugby?  

 Mozart
One more thing - the Lions and Cheetahs make average centers look good - the Bulls kill good centers - why?   They let go of Sadie - yet he is out-performing most other 13's in SA at present.   Why?
A further question - did Habana in fact looked good for the Bulls through backline attacks or was it rather individual brilliance on his part that made the difference?   Suddenly Olivier could pass balls- and Serfontein cannot - on what do you base that?
You constantly make wild statements - without real substance and often refers to one match wonders or one-incident wonders as if it is career-defining.  Start analyzing players based on series performance and come up with realistic answers - that would make for much more interest ing debate.     

No Dave I'm saying everybody finds a way to make running contributions...except your two centres. And believe me an ODriscoll or Gerber would have no problem making an impact.  

 Mozart
This is the new way of dealing with things by you.   Cornered and you just ignore key questions.   Funny - that one.

No Oom I just ignore you....most posters do. Read one of your posts and one has read them all.

 The issue of performance by ex-Bulls centers have never before being raised on this site.  Some questions about them with - having painted himself into a corner - find it difficult to answer without exposing how far removed from reality his previous statements were.
So the old coward runs away from answering them.   What a joke!!!!  
Just one further quote from you and another question:-
"I thought Steppie might have something  ..."  What about No Steppie - what has he got?
 

Rubbish, you cant make something from nothing, its not the duty of centres to roam.

JJ and Serfontein are by far our best centres, but sadly poorly utilised by the Bulls

As for Bok centres from FS and Tvl........look no further than Jaque Fourie, Japie Mulder, Hennie le Roux, Pieter Muller, Brendan Venter etc

Those centres are ancient history...they played much of their rugby before the S15 in some cases.  And why can Basson, Pollard, Po tgieter and Visser "make something from nothing" and your two palookas can't beat a tackle?

Mozart
Why can you not answer two straight question put to you - palooka?
The centers mentioned by Saffes may be ancient history - but they did not have to play outside  a palooka like Morne Steyn.  Just an independent observation.   

Mike let me summarize:
You don't like both Steyns , de Jongh and Alberts
You also think JJ may not be up to it, but you can't quite say it because you would be agreeing with me
Then you rate Lambie, Goosen, Steph, Coetzee, Labuscagne....and see no wrong in anything they do
You think S15 form translates automatically into test form

You think we should try to beat the ABs running the ball and give up on playing tight.
I think that pretty much captures anything you have ever written....have I missed anything?

Mozart 
Sure you missed 90% pf what I write about.  I do not like or dislike players - I try and assess their perforrmances and normally point out their good as well as poor performances.  For that purpose I may use statistics - but not for a single match - but over a series of matches.  If there are trends I try to identify them.
The trends I noticed about Francois Steyn is disappointing.  I credit him for the kicking at goal and long distance kicks - but criticize him for issues where he does not play well.  Where I go further is to try and identify reasons for deficiencies he shows - you miss out on all that.  To my mind His main problem is non-thinking rugby and a speed deficiency. which limits his usage.   The same applies to Morne Steyn and De Jongh.   De Jongh did well in the two matches he played this year and I stated so clearly - my only criticism was that he lost possession of the ball too often - 5 times in two games.
Alberts is a special case.  I think he is a good potential lock - but his performances as a loosie are severely limited and not covering important components of loosie play.  I recognise where he does well and criticize where he does not do well.  Instread of looking at the limitations in his play - some members ignore it.   Not really helpful if overal  discussions are clearly needed. 
I have said repeatedly in the past that Engelbrecht's performances are not acceptable - both in defense and attack.   However, i go further and try to find out what causes the under-performance of the Bulls center pair.   I queried it because the same game plan has been in place for years - some players adjust to it - others don't.  I mentioned Sadie as an example for instance.  My approach goes deeper and I try and find reasons for poor performance - not harp on it endlessly.  Incidentally i have already written two things about Engelbrecht - one is he lacks ball sense and secondly that it is not off-set by proper coaching.
My rating of players depend on performances - nothing else.  I look at all performances in games and not at only some and make a song and dance about it.  I have last year mentioned Coetzee was not producing the goods and did not support his selection ahead of Louw for the Springbok team.   I also said that Labuschagne was the top loosie in Super 15 last year and mentioned that he had two rather sub-par games this year.   On actual analysis it was clear that he was injured in the Rebels match and carried niggles subsequently.   You just write a player off - you never attempt to look any further.
You are totally wrong on the form issue - Super 15 performances does not translate automatically to test form.   I wrote repeatedly in the past is that poor Super 15 form normally - translate to poor test form.   There are rare exceptions where a player - whose Super 15 performances are bog ordinary - performs better on test level than he does on Super 15 level - but those are extremely few and far between.    If he was sub-par on Super 15. level he does not have a snowball's hope in hell of performing satisfactory on test level.  
My problem is I try and find logical reasons for issues and write about those - you write praise songs with huge holes in it - with no practical reasons to illustrate reality and is then upset when some members do not agree with the flowery language praise songs.
I like to debate issues and if people fault my statements - I enjoy to take discussions further.  You like to make grand pronouncements and cannot take it if the response is negative and you cannot find reasons to support your pronouncements.      


               

Oom you may like to analyse, unfortunately you have little aptitude for it. Rugby is too complex to be reduced to a few bits of raw data..but I have to apologize for introducing you to the Stats centre. It was akin to giving a child fireworks.

 Mozart
Well - I never - this bloody dumbo think I use stats only.   He must be delirious and he does not realise he is making an utter fool of himself.   Whenever cornered he goes to the insult level.   It is clear that you have a superiority complex - while you in fact are nothing of the sort.
So best advice - go and see your shrink - he may get you right, but I doubt whether that would be possible.  It is not possible to get any sense into the senseless.      

Actually a superiority complex is in fact the result of feelings of inferiority. As usual you have the whole thing arse about face. Lie down man, I am developing conflicted feelings as a result of these daily beatings I have to give you....why not just play Fantasy rugby and leave the analysis to those who have the capacity?

 Mozart
Your idiotic remarks do not represent beatings - the beatings are when I pointed out with exact examples how stupid your comments really are.   I laugh off your so-called beatings and feel only  pity for a person with so closed a rugby mind as you have .