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FORUM / RUGBY /  Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?

Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?

Started by clevermike98 REPLIES1,317 VIEWS· 01 Feb 2017, 11:41
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 14:44
#41
02 Feb 2017, 14:44#41
@Devil's advocate- I think Arthur John brought race into this. 

Arthur John
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1290RE: Keohane - has he got it right for a change?
February 01, 2017, 17:02:19

Great to read about the changes planned.


Gives hope for employment to some of your family members....I hope.
You will notice most of the comments from Arthur John are usually negative- and he has a grudge of being forced to live in another country.
I also have a gripe with this- but I do acknowledge that Apartheid was worse than the current government. 
If I was not born as a white person- I think I would hate Apartheid more than I hate the current ANC government. 
Imagine being non-white living in the old Apartheid South Africa. It is embarrassing when people mention Apartheid- just like it is embarrassing when people mention the current government. 
White people had a chance to create a united middle class- but instead allowed an Apartheid system that totally favoured white people.  If we had developed a dominant middle class- then everyone could have had a vote sooner. This would have broken down racial divisions- and ensured that everyone could vote for what they wanted- instead of voting on colour of skin (Like it was, and like it was now).
It supported Afrik-aan's people more because they took most of the natural resources.
English white speaking people were also at a disadvantage- but nothing compared to everyone else.

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 15:13
#42
02 Feb 2017, 15:13#42
 Facts, facts, facts. Coetze only met the quota targets for 3 games out of 12.

As stated many times, SA rugby has reached a point when it must be terminated. It might be argued whether rugby should have been introduced in SA. The point is it must be terminated.

The whole article is written from within a fish bowl. It keeps failing to look at other countries.

Other countries playing loser rugby as SA does have all put up means to foster support for teams playing loser rugby.
Representativity is one of them. So much that other countries are closer to achieve what SA must achieve by political decisions.

The pressure put on the SA team is the same put on many other teams. The other teams must be representative.
Actually, all the bemoanings show nostalgia for the time when SA could bypass the representativity demand.

The comment over targeting the previous SA teams shows again a disconnection from the rest of the world.

Every team in the world are put under the stress of winning when they do not meet the other requirements.
Victory justifies the continuing of the sport practice.

There is no political interference. Other countries understood a long time ago  that when they cant provide victory, they must provide something else.

When you ignore all the other requirements, then victory must be the award. Victory or death.

The only special thing in SA is that politics must interfere to achieve the conclusions other countries made a long time ago without any political interference.

The issue of representativity is not an issue dictated by politics. It is dictated by the support demanded by teams playing loser rugby.
In SA, it turns political as people are unable to come on terms with that demand.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Feb 2017, 15:14
#43
02 Feb 2017, 15:14#43

@ Shark



I could care less who brought what in, at what point, to this conversation.


I am white, and Denny is trying to defend his openly racist posts towards whites, and it's despicable. 




DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Feb 2017, 15:16
#44
02 Feb 2017, 15:16#44
Denny

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 4485 RE: Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?
February 02, 2017, 13:39:32

 You're starting to irritate me, run along, you're a bore.
.

 

Hindsight is a b. itch as they say......


So thankfully this happened...... so we won't ever meet.


DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
02 Feb 2017, 15:24
#45
02 Feb 2017, 15:24#45
sharkbok

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6006 RE: Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?
February 02, 2017, 14:44:59

@Devil's advocate- I think Arthur John brought race into this. 



Arthur John
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 1290RE: Keohane - has he got it right for a change?
February 01, 2017, 17:02:19



It is embarrassing when people mention Apartheid- just like it is embarrassing when people mention the current government.

 

I am white, living in South Africa and I have nothing, zero, niks, nada, to be embarrassed about.


Some other white people maybe cannot say the same, but not me, so don't throw me in the mix with the other rubbish, because of my skin colour.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 15:25
#46
02 Feb 2017, 15:25#46
 Some problems in South Africa, are inherently African wide problems. Overpopulation, a high percentage or orphans etc, etc.

Overpopulation in Africa: there is indeed too many people in Africa. There are not overpopulation cases though.

SA has been making a business of shipping abroad as much as possible of the SA environment for a quick and unsustainable buck.

The end figure is zero people to live in SA. This is the consequence of depletion of resources.
When a mine is being destroyed, people settled a town near it. When the mine runs out, the town is dismantled. Ghost towns.

Has nothing to do with overpopulation.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Feb 2017, 17:29
#47
02 Feb 2017, 17:29#47
 Numbers matter. After McMillan's Winds of Change speech to the South African parliament in February 1960, and Sharpeville which followed a scant 6 weeks later......there was no option other than One Man/One Vote. ......... There was no 'qualified vote' while a white Middle Class built the country......there was already a white middle class and the country was already built as an industrial state. .......... The options for a different outcome in South Africa were discarded long before, when the Union was formed and the boundaries were established creating one country. Not even massive emigration from from war torn Europe could have upset the numbers game already in play. .......... The question which was, and remains unresolved is whether a modern African industrial country can retain it's shape when it loses it's colonial roots.......we are 20 years into that experiment now without a clear answer. ....... For a subject about mostly dead people history is rife with emotion, as one can see on this string. But the events that shape us tend to be monolithic and largely based on numbers.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 18:47
#48
02 Feb 2017, 18:47#48
I would say that based on evidence so far the black Africans have been unable to build a middle class, and this is why they fail.
The former black freedom fighters that replaced colonial rulers or their descendants have become the new oppressors. They are more interested in acquiring wealth for themselves than being good leaders. 
While corruption happens everywhere in the world, it is far worse in Africa. So people that lived in SA during Apartheid must have seen this and feared SA would be turned into another African banana state.
The only practical solution was to develop a middle class- which allowed anyone of any race to vote- but they had to have a certain level of education. This was the only way to avoid a Zuma getting into power. 
Not an ideal system- but much better than what African leaders in other countries offer.  Mugabe has been rigging the elections for ages- surely no one votes for him.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Feb 2017, 18:57
#49
02 Feb 2017, 18:57#49
 Not an option, the ANC and the world would never have accepted a Qualified vote, just as they never accepted Transkei independence.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 19:15
#50
02 Feb 2017, 19:15#50
This was applied across the world- (it was only around 40 years ago- that it became a more pressing issue. Only educated black people were allowed to vote in America until 1965. 
It could be debated that anyone, of any race should only  be allowed to vote if they have finished school education. 

15th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

"The first vote
A.R. Waud. 
Wood engraving. 1867.
Prints & Photographs Division.
Reproduction Number:
LC-USZ62-19234

The 15th Amendment to the Constitution granted African American men the right to vote by declaring that the "right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." Although ratified on February 3, 1870, the promise of the 15th Amendment would not be fully realized for almost a century. Through the use of poll taxes, literacy tests and other means, Southern states were able to effectively disenfranchise African Americans. It would take the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 before the majority of African Americans in the South were registered to vote

TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 19:40
#51
02 Feb 2017, 19:40#51
 While corruption happens everywhere in the world, it is far worse in Africa.

Any number to support that claim?

Corruption exists in many places and usually, african countries are lagging behind in terms of efficiency in corruption.

There are corrupted people, but they are small players.

Corruption is one of the stories used by excellent men to cover for their system.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 19:52
#52
02 Feb 2017, 19:52#52
 Always entertaining to read excellent men and their stories.

Qualified for what? Excellent men measure excellence by this: destroying faster, larger and harder.
In a world of finite resources, this comes with consequences.

As to building a country, in SA, what was built is a channel to destroy the SA environment faster, larger, harder.

Refering to industrial, middle class is staggeringly provocative.

The SA environment built the SA middle class.
The duration of this middle class was limited by the resources that could allocate to the middle class welfare.

Industrialization, middle class are associated to mass destruction of the environment.

Up to the change in regime, in SA, the SA environment was destroyed in order to enable the middle class.
When the destruction was advanced enough to push to depletion of resources, the change in regime happened.

A middle class in SA? where are the resources going to come from to allow this middle class?
SA environment is moving toward depletion and the capability of SA to monopolize foreign environments to destroy them at their benefits is extremelly limited.

Everywhere, the middle class concept is challenged for the same cause: the resources to sustain a middle class are lacking.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Feb 2017, 20:36
#53
02 Feb 2017, 20:36#53
There are certainly arguments in support of a qualified vote....hell a large portion of US voters can't even name the Vice President. And certainly many of the issues are challenging for some voters. ....... But the world assumes those objections are met and it's the right of every person to vote. It is a recent thing, for example women only got to vote in Switzerland in 1971....stunning in my view. Still the black sash ladies who lined the South African streets in the sixties sported posters saying one man/one vote....it was deeply embedded right after Sharpeville. ............ I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a good transition mechanism, allowing for some measured change, probably with a sunset clause when everybody got the vote. I'm saying the ANC would never have bought into it, it would have diluted efforts to win the whole country. Just as Mandela refused to accept a conditional release in 1985......you don't compromise when it jeapordizes your ability for a total win. ....... Besides which a qualified is on it's face discrimination, how can that be supported by a movement which is built (theoretically) on anti discrimination.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 20:37
#54
02 Feb 2017, 20:37#54
@Traditionalist. Stop playing the innocent victim.Have you ever considered that if Africa had developed technology before Europe- that things may have been the other way around?  
Will you be blaming colonialism in 1000 years? You are getting brainwashed by African propaganda created by your "leaders/ Looters". 
----------What I would suggest is doing some travelling aroundthe world. Then comparing Zuma to European or American governments. 
The prime minister of England published his bank statement. Imagine Zuma published his bank statement. It would show how he has stolen the tax-payers money.

Mugabe- talked a good game when he came into power. However, this was short-lived- and he became a communist dictator. The opposition leader was found with a huge lump on his head- which the Mgubabe camp of course denied.
Even in South Africa- the worst run areas are by the ANC.  I am from Durban, which now apparently stinks like a toilet. 
Capetown has DA rule- which is much better. The DA could win the next election to have the first black "democratic" president. 
Hopefully- he will realise he is a public servant- and not an elected King that clears out the tax payers funds.
Africa may be better outsourcing the government to Europe or China- this would help speed up progression and build an educated middle class.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 20:59
#55
02 Feb 2017, 20:59#55
 Innocent victim? Of what?

Considering what? There are things and the way they are. Considering past options leads nowhere.

There is no what ifs, only what excellent men have brought.

Once more, on the issue of corruption, african nations are behind. They are corrupted but their corruption is smaller in volumes.

Publishing a bank account when they know the ins and outs of the system and they control it.

Money does not matter. Resources matter. England has been stealing quite a lot.

One thing that africans can be blamed with: they are thieves as the others are. They are much smaller thieves though.
When the game is about stealing...


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:05
#56
02 Feb 2017, 21:05#56
 Of course Capetown is better. For some time.

Excellent men often deny geography yet when looking at the resources flow, it is organized along a north to south direction, with half of Africa's resources following the natural shape of the continent: they are funnelled down to the tip (a look at a map confirms)

The tip is Capetown, this is where resources from half of Africa are funnelled down.

Then, from that tip, resources are dispatched toward the East and the West. This is a big geostrategial position.

That will last as long as there are resources to funnel down or that the flow in resources is not changed. Both are coming to an end.

It has nothing to do with governance.

Time to measure the consequences of the excellent men's ways. It is all about destroying.

People should evacuate SA when they still can. All of them.
This territory is going to hit depletion of resources.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:12
#57
02 Feb 2017, 21:12#57
TheTraditionalist
 
Status: Squad member 
Posts: 459RE: Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?
February 02, 2017, 21:05:51

 Resources flow, it is organized along a north to south direction, with half of Africa's resources following the natural shape of the continent: they are funnelled down to the tip (a look at a map confirms)


You are an example of someone that should not be allowed to vote. People thousands of years ago had more brain power than you. 
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:14
#58
02 Feb 2017, 21:14#58
 Qualified vote to manage the transition toward what?

Excellent men excell at destruction. That is all. The education they favour is the one that leads to more destruction.

SA is destroyed now. Excellent men excell at destruction, not at mending, not at conservation.

An education to do what? to destroy what resources? And resources that belong to who?

The middle class means mass consumption, which means mass destruction.

Where are the resources going to come from? From what other place in the world?

SA resources were already busted to build the previous middle class, which is not even sustainable, even if all the other SA people were removed.

Where from?

The only plan excellent men have is a plan to destruction and there is not much left to be destroyed in SA.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:19
#59
02 Feb 2017, 21:19#59
 You are an example of someone that should not be allowed to vote. People thousands of years ago had more brain power than you.


People in the past were on the average as intelligent as people are. The difference is in the accumulation of knowledge.

As an example, they did not know that Africa lowest part is shaped as a funnel.

Capetown is the tip of the funnel. A position that comes with benefits.

As to voting, intelligent people and non intelligent people who do not vote have something in common: they do not vote.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:26
#60
02 Feb 2017, 21:26#60
 One thing they knew though: you do not grow richer by shipping away stuff like gold. Yoou grew richer when you increased the amount of gold.

Excellent men did not think of SA as a place to live in the future, just a place to be destroyed.

They have been shipping all the gold outside the place.

The population that shall live in the future in SA is totalled to zero.

People who stay in SA were set as fall guys. Excellent men ruined the place. People who are trapped there are their cover up story, the ones who play scapegoat as excellent men do not want to take responsibility for what they have done.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:30
#61
02 Feb 2017, 21:30#61
 17 years ago, I decided to stay kn SA and try to make things work. This country gave me an education and a good childhood upbringing. Yes, I was privileged, and that meant I had a responsibility to give back for what I have received. I had hope that we could change this country into a success for all its people. I understood that their would be a need for AA, to help hardworking people of other races to catch up. I was prepared to work with those people for the greater good. I was a fool. There are many people of different races who share this ideal, but sadly, there are enough people...those in power, who are glad that the roles are reversed and that whites had their due and it's now the time of the black man. Like I  said, I'm a fool for staying, I should have gone 20 years ago. I'm neither wanted here nor appreciated. FCUK!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
02 Feb 2017, 21:46
#62
02 Feb 2017, 21:46#62
 Sorry to hear you feel that way Draad. But I can't say I haven't heard that view before. I have become quite cynical about these things....groups act in their own best interests. And if you see a group that apparently isn't, like the Trump protesters at Berkley, you haven't defined the group or their own best interests properly. ...... When I first visited after the Change I was at a dinner that included a few prominent judges. They lectured me on goodwill and the promising future. I have seen these people off and on over the years and their views have done a 180. ...... That's what so silly about the German immigration and the attempts to extend it to the US. There are so many examples of how this works out....not for immigrants in general, but for immigrants who don't want to integrate. .... On Tuesday night in Denver another law enforcement officer was shot by a radical Muslim while helping two women. Bet you don't hear about that in the homeland.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Feb 2017, 22:10
#63
02 Feb 2017, 22:10#63
 No we don't.  We only hear how evil and stupid DJT is. I know he's no angel, but I can see that he is trying to stand up for the average man in the street.  I don't care that he might not be sincere...at least he has drawn a line in the sand...he did not do it by himself, he got a mandate from the voters and he is doing what he said he would...to the letter. He is clever enough to see how he is being perceived, but he said he would try and fight for his voters and he is doing that despite all the negative press. He might be wrong with what he set out to do, but he has the backbone to stick to his guns. The sore losers are looking more evil by the day. I'm sure average Americans doesn't condone the burning and destruction. It looks like the USA both deserve and need Donald at this time. The whole world needs a wake-up...and he's obliging.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
02 Feb 2017, 22:12
#64
02 Feb 2017, 22:12#64
 For those complaining about his character....go and look at both Hitler and Churchill's CV's. See which one you would have voted for....and then you can judge DJT again.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
02 Feb 2017, 23:29
#65
02 Feb 2017, 23:29#65
My father still lives in SA. He has always been positive about the future. However over the last two years- unfortunately, he is starting to lose faith in where SA is heading. He may retire in Australia where my sister stays. (It is winter now in the UK- so I wish I was in OZ)
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
03 Feb 2017, 00:02
#66
03 Feb 2017, 00:02#66
 @Denny
I never at all suggested that apartheid only affected you or just one group. Still it it did affect you personally though, right? Not really sure what you think I don't undsrstand. 
Yes guy, obviously the effects of apartheid are still visible and most if not all of us in SA are still affected by it. 
BUT not every problem that we have is because of apartheid. That's just as obvious. So, do we continue debating the longlasting effects of apartheid on us all or do we try to compartmentalise it to a degree so that we can deal with some of the problems that we have today? 
That's all I'm saying. We can discuss apartheid forever but unfortunately there are problems in SA that need resolving and we cant wait for the apartheid debate to settled once and for all before we address them. 
How would I correct the imbalances in our sport - Is that what you were asking?
I'd say that investing in schools, teaching and club facilities would be a good place to start. Then I'd give bigger tax breaks to companies that sponsored sports teams, leagues and players individually. 
I guess I'd do my best to give as many kids as possible the opportunity to involved in sports. Government are supposed to serve and support right? Not dictate and divide. Our government presently seems to be using the unifying phenomenon of sports to divide people and I don't understand it. 
So there's my layman's response. 
Look, youre obviously angry for some reason. I for one am happy to give you my perspective, not that you need it. But this is why we're here right? 

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Feb 2017, 08:45
#67
03 Feb 2017, 08:45#67
Plum

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1048 RE: Keohane - has he got it rright for a change?
February 03, 2017, 00:02:05

BUT not every problem that we have is because of apartheid. That's just as obvious. 


.......

"100% correct Plum, and I think it is very naïve or narrow mindedness to suggest otherwise"  "Just look at what only Zuma himself has done, to his own people" . 

.......
That's all I'm saying. We can discuss apartheid forever but unfortunately there are problems in SA that need resolving and we cant wait for the apartheid debate to settled once and for all before we address them........"The way things are going now, if we waited, it could be another couple of hundred years" .......

 


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Feb 2017, 09:26
#68
03 Feb 2017, 09:26#68
 Uh-oh . . . Gimpfight! Rooitwit its not a fight dunbass its just ou dense denise getting a severe snotklap!
I've been accused of being ignorant, clueless not knowing anything because I'm a woman. Cloudy you are not ignorant because you are a woman you are just ignorant. Blissfully unaware!!!  One day if you ever wise up you will be horrified as to how you have been so utterly duped by globalist propaganda. 
Apply yourself to WISDOM Cloudy. 
Congrats to Dr Moz, Devils Advocate, Windpomp, Draad and Plum etc etc for excellent contributions. 
I never read Traditionalist and will avoid his posts until he decides to  to write plain English.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Feb 2017, 13:38
#69
03 Feb 2017, 13:38#69
 I never read Traditionalist and will avoid his posts until he decides to  to write plain English.

Pointless. Basic points are made and excellent men have no answer in store.

Reading something you have no answer to is pointless. It wastes time for everyone.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Feb 2017, 13:48
#70
03 Feb 2017, 13:48#70
 This country gave me an education and a good childhood upbringing. Yes, I was privileged, and that meant I had a responsibility to give back for what I have received. I had hope that we could change this country into a success for all its people. I understood that their would be a need for AA, to help hardworking people of other races to catch up. I was prepared to work with those people for the greater good

Giving back what?
Working hard to catch up with what?

Once resources are gone, they are gone. It is going to be hard to return anything.

The untouched SA environment made it a success for a minority who squandered the wealth.
Resources in SA are declining. This is a story of experiencing an impossibility: delivering what is not in store. Excellent men have no solution in store.

They cant give back what they have taken. All they can do is denying the debt they have.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Feb 2017, 13:54
#71
03 Feb 2017, 13:54#71
 ut sadly, there are enough people...those in power, who are glad that the roles are reversed and that whites had their due and it's now the time of the black man.

Roles are reversed? how?

Actually, reversion in roles would show a different story.

Two guys. A fridge sitting out of reach. One guy pushes the other one down and climbs on his back to pilfer food.

The second guy doing the same does not reverse the roles. The fridge is empty.

Excellent men bring an expertise in destruction. Their expertise is going to be less and less in demand in SA, there is less and less to destroy.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Feb 2017, 14:02
#72
03 Feb 2017, 14:02#72
 Victimhood is usually high among excellent men. They are victims. Which gives away troubles in self perception.

Quoting:

There are so many examples of how this works out....not for immigrants in general, but for immigrants who don't want to integrate. 

This from people hailing from SA or the US. Which are that big stories of integration.

In SA, a large share of migrant descendents cant even speak one work in the most spoken languages in places and demanded that the majority learn their language.

The US is a story of massive population substitution, which indigenous people being eradicated.

And then, calls for integration.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Feb 2017, 15:42
#73
03 Feb 2017, 15:42#73

Another newspaper headline yesterday, robber gets killed thinking Muthi will make him invincible and invisible.


Black men with aids, still believe that having sex with a newborn baby will cure them from this disease.


100's of black youngsters dying each and every year at initiation school due to idiots impersonating witch doctors, with no experience whatsoever, who use the same blunt dirty knife or axe on each young man, leading to infection and death.


1000's of black people dying every year from people impersonating Sangomas and asking for thousands of rands from young and retired people, life savings in some instances, or R2 000 a visit, only to be given aspirin, battery acid, common everyday medicine from your chemist the heal them.


"Qualified" pastors spraying their congregation with Doom to help their husband stop having an affair, or to heal some dreaded disease.


"Qualified" pastors making their congregation lie on the floor and have vehicles ride over their bodies, to prove that they can be healed.


Here are just some examples, of what I think, the government could have improved on, after more than 20 years in power.  Educating the uneducated........going to the villages, the townships, the shacks, the rural dwellings to ensure schools are built, teachers are really teaching.  The last count resulted in 1000's of ghost teachers being paid a monthly salary, and they never ever existed.  That money could have made a huge difference to the people of SA.


Zuma likes the fact that people don't or can't read, because he will lose more votes every year when people can actually conceive what that article in the newspaper is saying about him.


What about our 9 municipalities that are now having their electricity shut off and restricted every day because of non-compliance regarding millions and millions of outstanding debt.


So much so that those businesses in those towns (Who did pay over their rates and taxes every month) have now been massively affected due to limited and restricted power during the day and night, until that municipality has paid back in full.


Has anyone been held accountable for this?


Nkandla is and was a disgrace, thousands of education grants, schools, infrastructure could have benefitted from this money.  The Gupta's..... lets not even go there...... the arms deal..... Shabir Shaik......Jackie Selebi....... Malema......


You want your country to improve with a president who thinks that taking a shower, after raping a woman with aids, will rid him of that aids virus, or an ex president and health minister who professed to everyone that would listen, that eating garlic and beetroot will also rid you of aids.


How about the minister from last year, who complained publicly about our water crisis that the white people built all the catchment dams too big... long ago, so it takes too long to fill up these big dams with water, and that the clever white people should have made all the dams smaller so they could fill up quicker when it rains.


This is an educated person in my opinion...... surely.... she is a minister, in fact, they all are.... with "degrees".


What about the other minister who was gifted a farm and who left all her animals on her farm for weeks without food or water, and they all suffered a horrendous death, as reported on Carte Blanche


And all of this is still happening....... because of apartheid.


People with degrees...... life experience........ world experience......... doctorates......masters degrees........have run this country for over 20 years now, yet we still have people believing that if they take Muthi made from the private parts of newborn babies, as well as the eyes and ears...... this will make him invisible to any other human on the planet.


Apartheid was an absolute and utter disgrace, and it deserves the hate and contempt that it got from people in South Africa and everywhere around the world.


But it is NOT the reason why everything is so horribly  wrong in South Africa today, and it is about time that black people admit that and accept it.


Enough said........






 

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
03 Feb 2017, 16:11
#74
03 Feb 2017, 16:11#74
@Traditionalist
What would you have us do? Surely if anyone is responsible for the past- it is people who are now dead?We can't exactly go back in time. We can only try pick up the pieces and move forward.Some white people have remained in SA to try make it work. Others like myself saw doors blocked due to reverse discrimination like Affirmative action- and had not choice but to leave. 
We acknowledge what was done is the past was wrong. Conquest and crusades have been part of the human existence since longer than anyone can remember. At some time every country has been part of some conquest. 
Like I said things could be the other way around- and it could have been Africa that developed technology first- and colonised Europe. (Colonisation has happened in Africa- by various African countries/tribes.). Look at Shaka Zulu, as well as "trekkers" from the North.  
If we all evolved from Apes over 5 million years (which I believe)- the last few hundred years are seconds in the scale of things. Animals compete for land and resources, just like us humans(or "evolved" monkeys). 
Hopefully, things will be better in the future- but for most of us- it will a ffect us for the rest of our lives.
DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
03 Feb 2017, 17:16
#75
03 Feb 2017, 17:16#75

To blame all the white people today for what happened with apartheid, when many of those same white people were totally against apartheid, is like blaming all the current German people today for what Hitler did to the Jews, when thousands of those same German people hid thousands of those same Jews away, and helping them escape death, whilst facing a certain death sentence themselves if caught.


TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
03 Feb 2017, 21:07
#76
03 Feb 2017, 21:07#76
 We acknowledge what was done is the past was wrong.

That is the PC version.
The change in regime happened when the resources were set to depletion. That is the cause behind the change.
Excellent men do not tell and prefer to paint it as if they admitted some wrong.
The reality is they hit the point of non sustainability in SA and switched hands.
People who are left in SA are expected to play fall guys.

Like I said things could be the other way around- and it could have been Africa that developed technology first- and colonised Europe. (Colonisation has happened in Africa- by various African countries/tribes.). Look at Shaka Zulu, as well as "trekkers" from the North. 

Except that is not the case. It makes no sense and show the parts excellent men see equality.

Shaka Zulu was checked after it was mentioned on this board. He is rumoured to cause the death of 2M people (figures are believed to be inflated)
This, in the late 18th century. As a reminder, Julius Caesar's conquest of the gauls made the same number of casualties... in 1st century BC




sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,261 posts
03 Feb 2017, 22:13
#77
03 Feb 2017, 22:13#77
@yawn/traditionalist- why don't you also move overseas- you don't seem very happy in SA. . 
Some of your material sounds like it could be used in x-files- and other conspiracy comedies.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Feb 2017, 09:52
#78
04 Feb 2017, 09:52#78
Yep Cloudy you would rather the slaughter of unborn continue. You love the coming of the one world anti chri st government. You must delight in the islamification of the USA and Europe. Astonishing really.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
04 Feb 2017, 10:08
#79
04 Feb 2017, 10:08#79
 @DA You forgot the golden rule of South Africa. 
Do not ever point out mistakes that the black population make because that is racist. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Feb 2017, 12:52
#80
04 Feb 2017, 12:52#80
 Really so are you saying you don't support Hillary or Obummer etc. You seem to be a bundle of contradictions! Bwahahahhahahahahaha
This Cloud has no rain.
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