Man that was a physical encounter

 Bulls v Stormers was a battle of attrition. As close on paper as it was on the field. Great game and a draw would have been a fair outcome. Man that Etzebeth is something else. 

All the players were good and its great to see the likes of Spies back at his best. I have to disagree with Moz's take on his Stormers players getting the better of their opposite numbers......Jean was not better than Olivier and nor was de Jongh better than Sadie........it was evens all round. Flip and Bekker had good games despites Card strange take on them. It was good stuff by all and good for Bok rugby.

Add the Sharks and Cheetahs wins and things are looking bright with 3 SA sides in the top 6

Spies back to his best? Amazing. Spies got the ball in space four or five times. We watched the highlights of that carefully. He gained quite a few metres.....but through open field! And apart from one semi slipped tackle he was brought down by the first tackler, every time. Hell wee Joe Peterson scythed him down at full pace in acres of space. Nor can I remember him making one significant tackle or providing cover. If that's Spies' best, it's damn ordinary.

And de Jongh was way more dangerous than Sadie....he must have beaten 7 or 8 tackles in the game.....including Sadi's. Sadi by contrast did zippo. What game were you watching?

Jean likewise beat quite a few tackles and took Olivier down like clockwork. All Olivier did was run 15 metres unmarked for a try.....get real.

Flip did not have a good game. His yellow was asinine.....and for the rest he was anonymous.....totally outplayed by Etzebeth.

This is why we are never on the same page Dave. I think Joe Pietersen, who I like, had a poor game. I think Kitshoff who I fancy as a future Bok, was exposed in the scrums because of inexperience. I think Harris was damn good. These are all honest calls based on what was observable. Your calls are simply rampant favouritism.

Yes it was a physical match but the key point ot note was how a pack which during the course of the match fielded 6 players who are 20 to 21 years old then one has to say the future is looking bright for the Stormers pack. Jean and De Jong definitely outplayed Olivier and Sadie -  who it seems has gone to pieces in the bulle camp. Was this a bad move for him?

Please dont mention spiseies in the same breath as Vermulen Dave. The bulle bests loose forward was Jaque Potgieter.

My main concern for the future of the Stormers is the qulaity of their coaching staff and the need for young backs to be coming through. We also have to watch out for bulle poaching - ditto sharks.

In the pack all we need is a big strong young hooker. Deon Fourie is not a strong scrummager and if anything happens to Liebenberg we will have difficulties against strong scrumming sides.

I have to agree with Moz on this one. But I would like to add that Bekker continues to be lost at sea. Both he and Flip needed big games last night, they both failed miserably. Liebenberg was another flopper offering little aside from off the ball nonsense. Vermuelen another nonentity.

 Moz, we are never on the same page for you will never admit that Spies had a great game, was by far the best loosie on the park - Beeno is trying to tell me Vermeulen was better, what rubbish, Vermeulen did nothing. Flip was solid and yes Etzebeth was better. Bekker had a good game. de Jongh did nothing of note and like Sadie, missed a tackle. Jean was no better than Olivier

So yes Moz I was watching the match......funny that if Kitshoff struggled you say nothing about how good Kruger was opposing him - a player like Greyling that you call fatties and useless. Fact is they are anything but......the reality of that match was that no centre pair got the better of the other, Spies had a good game as did Flip.......it was a well fought contest as even as they come, with very few players getting the better of their opposite number as you make out happened. 

So we will never be on the same page when Spies, Flip, Kirchner, Olivier, Werner Kruger can do no good in your books and the likes of de Jongh can do no wrong in your books, despite showing so little. You always make so much out of nothing or by contrast see so little in players who are performing well - its all dependent on who the player is when it comes to you

The difference is Dave, if one of my preferred players has a poor game I call it . Yesterday Olivier was a non factor, Sadie was poor to non existent and Flip was dominated. But still according to you Jean was no better than Olivier....de Jongh missed a tackle like Sadie, you say nothing of how many tackles he made....and Flip, who was dominated, had a good game. It's a disease with you.

This is what Jean said in singling out de Jongh.

The veteran Springbok centre was happy for his team-mates, saying: "I thought Juan de Jongh had an fantastic game. I thought he was absolutely great out there. And for Gio [Aplon] to get a win against the Bulls in his 50th game was fantastic."

Jean is a particularly honest fellow, and not given to hyperbole. But I agree totally with him. De Jongh made heaps of good tackles, and ran those cuts against the flow with full commitment. He almost always made metres often carrying a player with him, totally destroying the silly notion that he is not strong enough.

As for the front rows, I have seen enough of Werner Kruger against good props to know he has issues.....eg. for the Boks last year. Greyling is a scrummager with poor technique. He popped up yesterday rather often. I'll give some credit to the Bools coaches who negated a fair contest in the scrums.....with Kruger fading inside, and Greyling scrumming in. They should have been penalized from the outset. Hell one of their props had his shoulders turned at 45 degrees to parallel on one scrum. In the end though their illegal tactics led to the final penalty and cost them the game. Justice was served.

Hey guys regarding devided opinions on spies. I do think this year he has stepped up to the plate, maybe the fact that he is captain? Etzebeth, no argument, that guy is like a diesel engine just goes on and on and on with 4 or 5 guys on his back, strong like an Oshkosh truck. Crumhalves I think where both the weak links in the game as both of them made alot of positional and handling errors. i reate Hougaard, however to his stadards he ahd an awfull game, maybe the pressure. The SA scrumhalf of the round was Piet van Zyl. The rest were all even stevens, however to be honest I think the stormers locks and loosies oveall, not including spies were better and therein lay the difference in the game. Elstadt & Kolisis had very good games where Potgieter and Stander where not close to them, as was the difference between the locks. Kruger tried everything however got so frustrated he started playing the off the ball stuff. Well at least he tried but he will know he was outclassed.

Wrong Moz, its what you want to see compared to what was real. de Jongh did very little of significance on attack and of course Jean is going to praise him. How was Flip dominated exactly? I disagree, he had a good solid game as he always does. Spies was good, but you wont acknowledge that. Now suddenly Kruger and Greyling were scrumming illegally - come on Moz, give them credit where credit is due.

If one of the players I like has a bad game I will say as much. I am not saying Olivier, Flip and co were great, they were solid. In fact one site had Olivier as far better than Jean, by virtue of the number of tackles he made.

I have no issue with de Jongh as a player, he is talented. My issue with him is his size, he will never make the step up given the size he is and I will never change my opinion on that. 87kg centres do not play outside centre at test level.

Sadie needs to step up and start making an impact, he has has 2 full games now and needs to start living up to his hype. He has not been poor, he has just not created the havoc he should have been