OZ versus wee abs offical thread

Gotta love all the kiwi self back slapping saying they beat wallabies without smith / carter / mccheat etc.... how about look at the the team you beat - I can count at least 6 first line players that would change this wallabies team very much:

Pocock

Palu

TPN

Higgin

Beale

Tomane / Ioane

JOC (for better or worse)

so yep u had a win but dont play all the we won even with all our players out crap - considering the main player in your team is the AIG / Emirates Ref Joubert..........  

Sasue

I earlier under this thread pricked and tried to deflate the beeno balloon - bu he did not fell for it and he is still on cloud 9.  Now it is your turn.

You have it wrong with some of the players listed.   Although I used to admire his performances over many years - I would as a Springbok supporter love to see the AB's continue with McCaw and not start with Cane.   McCaw is in the dwindling  stage of his career - so the longer he stays around - the better it is for the opposition.  McCaw was the past - Cane is the future.

Owen Franks played earlier in the CR and was nothing special = he often enough was poor against the Pumas and even the Springboks with 14 men on the field of play - nothing to write home about - another one not really a strength in performance.

Luke Romano is a better proposition than  Retallick - I grant you that - but both are rather average in performance - although Romano is better in line out play.  Both are weak compared to Sam Whitelock - by some distance the best lock forward in NZ at present. 

The best of your list is my hero Dan Carter he stays on top of the list insofar as I am concerned..

Not sure about either Conrad Smith or Cory Jane,  Conrad Smith is at 32 on the wrong side of 30 and he has up and down performances this year.   Still NZ's best no 13 - but not somebody that can be regarded as the player he was a couple of years ago.  He will be 33 nest year - so what is he going to produce next year?

I have always rated Cory Jane highly - but he is also going into the danger zone above 30 years of age - he will be 31 next year.   Is he going to be injury free next year?   The main question is - is he really better than Ben Smith on the wing?   I do not like to r ate a player on the basis of one match performance - but do not think Ben Smith should play at 13 again.   He is not a center and Hansen's experiment did not work out.   However, on the wing the situation is entirely different - so the question is - who is the better - Ben Smith or Cory Jane.   I am on the Ben Smith side in that argument  

So your list above is not as fearsome as you make it out to be.      

Cloudy

I read somewhere you like older men - you really are a darling - but there is a downside to getting older.   You may be better mannered and better in bed - with more tricks picked up , but you get slower and the hard knocks in life start to take their toll - especially as a rugby player in the professional era.   There is no way the present physio's can combat that - hard as they may try.   Problem is your speed comes down and "ye olde bones"  start getting more and more injuries, which takes longer to heal.  

It must be accepted that the peak performance age of ruby players - when they physically are in best form is 25 to 28 years of age.   Some special specimens can last to about 30 or even longer - but decline becomes noticeable - especially after 30 years of age.

Just be objective and look at the following s an example.   Even though McCaw is still a very good player - at present he is not as good as he was at 28 or even 30 - ie before the latest WC.   That is a hard fact of life and although the NZ supporters have tried to play it down - after his sabbatical he is giving away more penalties, make more handling errors and miss more tackles than he has done in years gone by.

The same can be said of players like Conrad Smith.   He is a very clever player and remains that - but he had an up and down season in Super 15 this year and is not as good as he was in 2010-11.  

Maybe the players try to extend their careers by playing is safe.   Carter is nowadays making less personal attacks on the gain line than he did before and even kick balls more than he did before - but he  still remains the best flyhalf in the world.  

Be it as it may if you look at age you will find that most players themselves opt out and stop playing international rugby by 30 or at the utmost 33 and they go and play at lower level in clubs - especially in the NH - where they can last a few years  longer. 

So my dear and beautiful lady - the older men have other qualities, but as professional sportsmen they are not as good is not as good as they used to be.  I can mention for instance a swimmer like Roland Schoeman - he is at 33 one of the oldest swimmers in the Workd Cup circuit and has won this year a string of gold medals - but his earlier years he strung along Olympic gold and silver medals and world records - but he is not even near the times he used to regularly set in the period 2000-09.   The legendary Michael Phelps is only 27 - but he said he has had enough and retired from swimming.   See what I mean?                 

As you get old the eyesight also starts to fail. Wife looks as good as ever, lol

Cloudy

Do you agree with the better in be statement too?  

Beeno

I think we should accept some basic facts - we lost against the AB's during the past two years and the idea is -

*   to build on the basis we set in dominating territory and possession; and

*   analyse player selection carefully and determine which players have let the Springboks down in the tests - and replace those not contributing in full to the Springbok team efforts.

That is the positive way to deal with the issue.   I for one am not saying that wholesale changes are needed.  In looking carefully at the match day squad for the Ellis Park test and taking into account there Super 15 performance s  - it is clear that a maximum of five change in the 23 man squad would definitely be positive.  These changes include -

    Kirchner, Morne Steyn, Alberts, Kruger and Steenkamp

Of the above all of Kirchner, Morne Steyn, Alberts and Kruger will be 30 next year ad Steenkamp 33.   That indicates that they would not make the 2015 RWC - so the sooner Meyer gets rid of them and replace them - the better.

We certainly have better players in SA than those five team members are