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FORUM / RUGBY /  Paris Attacks

Paris Attacks

Started by clevermike104 REPLIES1,474 VIEWS· 25 Nov 2015, 09:08
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2015, 09:08
#1
25 Nov 2015, 09:08#1
A husbands tribute to his wife in the aftermath of her murder by terrorists:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0CA3aaLbo

I found the above very touching and am posting it for the benefit of members.  This guy got world famous after posting the message on Facebook.    
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
25 Nov 2015, 15:04
#2
25 Nov 2015, 15:04#2
Will check it put when I get back home to where wifi exists later today Mike. It's not super sad and depressing is it?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2015, 15:37
#3
25 Nov 2015, 15:37#3
 I don't think so - I think it is a very special way to look at the situation.  
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
25 Nov 2015, 16:20
#4
25 Nov 2015, 16:20#4
 Yep watched this on Canadian TV.
Touching for sure but how many more times must the average peace loving person make these concessions to allow these animals to continue.
Confront them now I say but we have no leaders in the western population who have the B.A.L.L.S to make that move.
All these concessions over the years have allowed the animals to occupy and pollute our western civilization to the point where they are allowed to carry their message of hatred and killings to all corners of the world.
Time for action.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Nov 2015, 17:59
#5
25 Nov 2015, 17:59#5
 The West are no angels...tel me there was s good reason for Turkey to shoot down a Russian plain? (Nato member using an American F16)
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
25 Nov 2015, 20:31
#6
25 Nov 2015, 20:31#6
Turkey is just another country which joined Nato for its own defense.
They have not attacked ISIS in Syria which is right next door to them but yet they are part of the so called USA coalition force who swore to wipe out ISIS.
They have refused to house the Muslim refugees in their country and now they have shot down a Russian aircraft.
If they were not a Nato member they would never have shot down that aircraft....knowing full well that the Russians would have annihilated them.  
Just another freaking bunch of sneeky Muslims who need to be taught a lesson.
I agree that the USA is a major agitator in the Muddle East with their shipments of arms to these Muslim countries but who is going to stop them.
Remember the USA economy depends on wars.
Not fighting and winning them but supplying other countries with arms and equipment to wage war.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Nov 2015, 23:56
#7
25 Nov 2015, 23:56#7
 2 years ago at High School my youngest daughter stepped in between a bunch of wanna be "heroes "  and a young Muslim girl who was being tormented for wearing the hajib.She faced them all down and forced them to back off in shame although she was but a slip of a girl .She despises the way women are treated in the muslim world but refuses to allow others to use those same girls religion to be used as an excuse to attack them in her presence .Strong moral centre that one , many could well do to follow the example set by one tiny wee school girl .
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2015, 00:10
#8
26 Nov 2015, 00:10#8
Oh dear "the USA economy depends on wars".....when total military expenditure is 3.5% of GDP. Really? The things people believe!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2015, 01:05
#9
26 Nov 2015, 01:05#9
 It is not necessarily the US Government that depends on wars - but the arms industry is another issue.  They are very powerful politically and the well-being of that industry and the massive employment opportunities do have an impoact of wars fought by others to whom they supply weaponry.  
The general idea is that it is the US Government that is involved in wars - but it is normally proxies armed by the military industry component - whose lifelihood depends on wars in cases where they supply arms that is dependent on wars for their profitability.
I would say that the statement made by you is too broad - the issue should be limited to a certain component of the US economy - not the whole US economy as you imply.    
AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
26 Nov 2015, 01:19
#10
26 Nov 2015, 01:19#10
mozart pray tell me how much does the USA make on Arms and associated war material that they export? I don't know the number but I would venture to add that it is much more than the 3.5% that u mistakenly quoted as military expenditure.
Always read a comment and make sure u understand the comment before u rattle off some irrelevant GDP data.

I and most others would be pleased if u could give us that number in Billions of US (not Hong Kong) Dollars.

I would have thought that even with your degree from Kalfonteintjie you would have know that basic fact.
But just goes to show and prove that most times some degrees are awarded for attendance not academic skills. 
My, my how disappointed some professors must be when evaluating their past "Stupid-dents"
Also just think 3.5% of the USA GDP is more than the total GDP of many countries.
Wow.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2015, 01:42
#11
26 Nov 2015, 01:42#11
 Let me help. GDP is a carefully constructed record of goods and services, classified into segments. It's developed by adding consumption, capital expenditure and exports (which would include military exports) and subtracting imports.

So the value of military exports is in GDP. But it's not in military expenditures....which is in essence the budget for expenses and capital for the US defense.

And exports wont change the picture much. Boeing, Lockheed and Northrup and other top ten companies who dominate arms exports produce less than $ 137 Billion of arms. But the US procures approximately $100 billion a year, the vast majority domestically.
So exports are probably not much more than the difference between $137 Billion produced and $100 Billion procured. Let's be big and call it $ 50 billion......a drop in the bucket compared to the $650 Billion defense budget....which is 3.5% of GDP....hardly something that dominates the whole economy.
Amazing what those boffins from Kalfonteintjie can do. Another myth evaporates.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Nov 2015, 05:49
#12
26 Nov 2015, 05:49#12
 Mozart
The following about the US Defence budget:-
  • "Military spending: The military budget of the United States during FY 2014 was approximately $578 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $149 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and $43 billion for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $770 billion. This was approximately $33 billion or 4.1% below 2013 spending. DoD spending has fallen from a peak of $678 billion in 2011.   The U.S. defense budget (excluding spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Homeland Security, and Veteran's Affairs) is around 4% of GDP. Adding these other costs places defense spending around 5% GDP. The DoD baseline budget, excluding supplemental funding for the wars, grew from $297 billion in FY2001 to a budgeted $534 billion for FY2010, an 81% increase.  According to the CBO, defense spending grew 9% annually on average from fiscal year 2000-2009.    Much of the costs for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been funded through regular appropriations bills, but through emergency supplemental appropriations bills. As such, most of these expenses were not included in the military budget calculation prior to FY2010.  Some budget experts argue that emergency supplemental appropriations bills do not receive the same level of legislative care as regular appropriations bills.    During 2011, the U.S. spent more on its military budget than the next 13 countries combined."

The cost of the wars on the basis of virtually continuous wars since 2000 has been massive and as stated is not at all clear.   The above mentioned only the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not the bombing campaigns in Libya and Syria-Iraq 
There is no really reliable base for calculating actual arms exports.   It is often hidden away and for a variety of reasons not reported. You referred to the major companies - but a vast majority of arms can be classified as small arms exports - not necessarily by the major arms producers mentioned by you.   However, -
*    it is a murky business with secrecy a major component; and*    what is evident is that the Middle East has been flooded with weaponry since 2000 - most coming from the US and Russia - but evidently the major supplier being the US.  
I am of the opinion that the situation cannot logically be discussed on a forum like this since real scenarios are shrouded in secrecy.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Nov 2015, 06:11
#13
26 Nov 2015, 06:11#13
 No doubt the costs are massive, but small relative to healthcare for example. But the point being debated is whether military expenditures drive the US economy. Even if you add veterans affairs,  at 5 per cent  it's just one of several large budget items....and not the core driver of the economy.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
27 Nov 2015, 02:01
#14
27 Nov 2015, 02:01#14
The defence contractors do make a mint and it does contribute to economies...but the resources is obviously what it's all about. The US armed ISIS to help them overthrow Mr Syrian dictator so as to get at the resources/resource routes. Same as they did in Iraq...topple the dictator and collect the spoils. They did this while trying to make US believe that they were arming "moderate" rebels. Then they told us they were now fighting ISIS, and with their recent experiences in the middle east one would think they'd be good at this. The most powerful military in the world have been fighting ISIS for over a year now and made very little progress. In come Russia, and within one weeks worth of air raids literally have ISIS troops(I use the word troops very loosely) abandoning their posts. It's ridiculously obvious the US had zero intention of getting rid of ISIS. Iraq's president has asked Russia to carry out the same operations there too. Go figure ;) The bank run US government is ticked off because now that the Russians are involved, that darn gas pipeline which Syria have been blocking, well it's just a little further out of reach. And Russia remain Europe's largest supplier of natural gas. And Becs and Arthur John will scream from the walls how action needs to be taken right now against ISIS. ISIS who have been armed and trained by the west. Same dirty Muslims who helped us get rid of Khadafi, remember? Don't worry guys, Putin is doing a very decent job of killing your enemies. Though, don't be surprised if pretty soon Russia & Co face off against the West. Haha and Iran cannot wait for this to start. They got a serious axe to grind. Somehow the US and Europe always seem to want to take a moral stance when really, they are the last ones who should. Hell a company I worked for, whose name I shan't mention, scammed the Palestinians AND the Israelis out of a very handy gas supply line which conveniently runs right to the red sea for easy shipping to Europe. And this is one company...not a whole governmen witht military backing. How did they do this? Well, by coming in as experts to moderate discussions between Israel and Palestine over the pipeline, then playing the two sides against each other and finally walking away with the lion's share. Have a guess how many countries the US have dropped bombs on since the end of WW2? It's something like 37! Sounds like a stellar foreign policy those guys have. At some point we just have to be honest and say "Fkuc it, it's a resource war and it's either us or them." because that is what it is. No more, no less. Another interesting fact. Bataclan theatre was sold by it's Jewish owners two weeks prior to the attacks. They'd owned it for around 40 years ;) Actually while I'm on it. Here is another interesting coincidence. 9/11, 7/7 and Paris all have the following in common... Training exercisee to deal with with exactly the kind of attack that did occur, we're being carried out on the very same day in all three of these events by the country and in the city where the.real.attacks happened. I can't explain this. These events are punctuated by the overthrowing of a leader and the stealing of resources. Asad(spelling) is next on the list :/
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
27 Nov 2015, 14:06
#15
27 Nov 2015, 14:06#15
 Plum, these bastards have been playing us for years. Flood the media with conspiracy theories too ridiculous to believe, and you have enough cover to hide the real scaly sh1t almost in the open. We sheeple shall never know the real truth. Like Georgie snr recently said, we can't handle the truth....but he's senile, so why take him seriously? 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
27 Nov 2015, 14:14
#16
27 Nov 2015, 14:14#16
George Snr...now there is a pure unadulterated bastard if ever there was one. If Beenis is correct and there is an Antichrist i'm sure it's that motherfker!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2015, 14:52
#17
27 Nov 2015, 14:52#17
 Plum
The Bush family made their money out of the oil trade and surrounded their presidencies with equal sc ummy characters.  Their only interest was making fast bucks out of that situation and they never minded lying and cheating to get the maximum out of the situation.
It was not in their own interest to haver Saddam Hussein in Iraq of Gadaffi in Libya and wherever a leader exist who have the potential to make life difficult for them - the way out would be to get rid of him.
I have become very cynical when it comes to world leaders.   After years of listening to the US propaganda machine about the bestial and cruel Russians I went to Russia and found the ordinary people totally opposite to what we are being told.           
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Nov 2015, 01:11
#18
28 Nov 2015, 01:11#18
 Mike, Clinton and Obama are no different,  maybe serve different masters, but unlikely. God forbid Hillary getting the vote...that would be a total fckup! 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2015, 01:30
#19
28 Nov 2015, 01:30#19
The Bush family are very decent people and quite unassuming.  
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Nov 2015, 02:04
#20
28 Nov 2015, 02:04#20
Haha check out Moz trolling. I see you Mozart...i see you! Get back under the bridge :)
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2015, 02:40
#21
28 Nov 2015, 02:40#21
No it's quite true, I have met some of them. Nothing wrong with a bit of trolling in the off season though Plum. Cheers  
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Nov 2015, 09:10
#22
28 Nov 2015, 09:10#22
Do tell Moz?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Nov 2015, 19:10
#23
28 Nov 2015, 19:10#23
 Nothing out of the ordinary Plum, business and college related. Both Bush presidents made their mistakes but they are decent men....any more and I 'm going to get dumped on and who needs that.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
28 Nov 2015, 19:57
#24
28 Nov 2015, 19:57#24
Moz, you realise it's not April? Cumon, you can't throw that out there and then play it down. I'll never stop hasseling you. To make an assessment of them it'd have to have been than a passing acquaintance.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 Nov 2015, 09:33
#25
30 Nov 2015, 09:33#25
For those oaks wanting an understanding go to: jihad watch
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
30 Nov 2015, 10:11
#26
30 Nov 2015, 10:11#26
For those oaks wanting a conservative Christian understanding go to: the link to weapons of mass destruction that were discovered and resulted in the US led invasion of Iraq.....oh wait, thats right...they didn't find any! 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
30 Nov 2015, 11:00
#27
30 Nov 2015, 11:00#27
 For those oaks wanting a conservative Christian understanding go to: the link to weapons of mass destruction that were discovered and resulted in the US led invasion of Iraq.....oh wait, thats right...they didn't find any!
This kills me man! You know, they probably didn't find any but then planted some old ICBMs from the 90s underground in some places in Iraq so as to justify a  brand new invasion in 2020. No doubt one of DoubleJa's daughters shall lea d the charge...on behalf of rich girls everywhere. I imagine Wrecking Ball playing in the background as the bombs go off.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
30 Nov 2015, 14:56
#28
30 Nov 2015, 14:56#28
 the very decent and quite unassuming family according to moz, the same one that according to many sources (including the following article, http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/10/05/dynasty_of_death_part_1) began making their fortune financing Hitler and the nazis:

"There is no historic parallel that can be drawn, nothing compares with the accomplishments of the Bush family. No dictator or tyrant can equal the suffering and destruction they have wrought on humanity, as they are not mere tyrants themselves, but the makers and breakers of tyrants, the organizers and profiteers of war and death. They are not alone and solely responsible for creating the present day military industrial complex, however since 1915 the Bush family has been directly involved in World War One and Two, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, numerous CIA secret wars, the Gulf War, and now a “Never Ending War”. The past four generations of this one family have had a hand in promoting and profiting from most of the major wars that America has waged since the beginning of the industrialized age.

The nightmare for the world began in 1915, with the establishment of an unholy partnership between the U.S. Government and the ‘War Industries Board', for-runner of America's present day 'military-industrial complex'. Some of those seated on the board of directors were Samuel P. Bush, great grandfather of George W. Bush, and so-called chief of Ordnance for the Small Arms and Ammunition Section, Wall Street banker Clarence Dillon, Samuel Pryor, executive committee chairman of Remington Arms, and Bernard Baruch, who, as head of the War Industries Board profited in excess of $200,000,000.


The members of the Board aptly came to be known as the "Merchants of Death." Using the facade of government to legitimize their operations, the War Industries Board represented the big munitions makers of the day who dispatched agents around the globe to sell the weapons and materials of war to both sides of any conflict. They bribed government officials and used their corporate influence and capitol to increase international tensions, which in turn generated demand and maximized profit.

It was during the First World War that Samuel P. Bush and the other board members amassed fortunes selling the weapons and materials of war not only to America but also to Germany. Most of the records and correspondence pertaining to Samuel P. Bush's activities on the War Industries Board were later burned mysteriously, "to save space" in the National Archives. When their business venture officially ended on November 11, 1918, some 37,508,686 human beings had been killed. It set a dangerous precedent for the destiny of America and the destiny of civilization itself. A small group of corporate manufactures, bankers, and industrialists had formulated a devilishly effective method by which profit is extracted from human suffering, war, and death, and their dark technique would be repeated and refined.


In 1922 while George Walker, was president at W. A. Harriman & Co, Averell Harriman went to Berlin to set up a branch bank for the company. While in Berlin Averell Harriman met with Fritz Thyssen, prime sponsor of the German politician Adolph Hitler. It was at that time that preliminary arrangements were made to establish a bank for Thyssen in New York. Two years later, in 1924, W. A. Harriman & Co. formally began the Union Banking Corporation in Manhattan, chiefly to handle German funds supplied through the Thyssen-owned Nazi front Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart (BHS), in the Netherlands, for the mass purchase of American commodities. The W. A. Harriman & Co executives labeled these dealing as the "Hitler Project".


On May 1st 1926 Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush, close friend of Bunny Harriman and fellow Bonesmen from their Yale class of 1917 joined W. A. Harriman & Co. as its vice president under the bank's president and his father-in-law George Walker. In that same year an associate of Prescott Bush's father, Samuel P. Bush, and “Merchants of Death” board member Clarence Dillon, acquired $70 million dollars from Fritz Thyssen to set up a massive organization named the Vereinigte Stahlwerke (United Steel Works Corporation, or the German Steel Trust). This would become Germany's largest industrial corporation.



Although Thyssen's accounts were run through the Walker-Bush organization and the German Steel Trust did its corporate banking separately through Dillon Read Company, U.S. government investigations revealed that Bush's Nazi-front bank had actually worked directly with Fritz Thyssen’s United Steel Works Corporation which had produced; 50.8% of Nazi Germany's pig iron, 41.4% of Nazi Germany's universal plate, 36.0% of Nazi Germany's heavy plate, 38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized sheet metal, 45.5% of Nazi Germany's pipes and tubes, 22.1% of Nazi Germany's wire, and 35.0% of Nazi Germany's explosives.


On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of all banking operations being carried out by Prescott Bush for the Nazis, under the Trading with the Enemy Act, however by that time he and the other associates at W.A. Harriman & Co. had already made their fortunes financing and arming Adolph Hitler. Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government was able to take over Union Banking Corporation, and The U.S. Alien Property Custodian, seized the Union Banking Corporation stock owned by Prescott Bush, E. Roland Harriman, and his associates until the war ended. Prescott Bush eventually sold his holding in Union Banking Corporation for $1,500,000.


Although the “Hitler Project” had resulted in a second world war and 62,537,400 human beings had been killed, Harriman and Bush and the other Bonesmen in Union Banking Corporation were never prosecuted for helping Adolph Hitler, and their identities were never publicized by the media.

(... continues with the wars in Korea and Vietnam )"
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
30 Nov 2015, 15:32
#29
30 Nov 2015, 15:32#29
 Here i an interesting article i read today...who knew Mbeki was this levelheaded. The more time goes on the more i start to think the poor guy got a tough shake.

Anyone remember is supposed rant on HIV and AIDS which was laughed at around the world? Apparently there was a hell of a lot more to that then met the eye. Very interesting.

Anyway, do read this article for more on the WMDs and how SA/Mbeki warned the West that no weapons were likely be found in Iraq. Obviously these warnings were ignored.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/30/blair-and-bush-went-to-war-in-iraq-despite-south-africas-wmd-assurances


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2015, 15:40
#30
30 Nov 2015, 15:40#30
 I have seldom read more rubbish Basque:
"The nightmare for the world began in 1915, with the establishment of an unholy partnership between the U.S. Government and the ‘War Industries Board', for-runner of America's present day 'military-industrial complex'."

What the hell is a "for-runner"? Hahahaha. But seriously, you can't honestly believe this stuff can you?
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
30 Nov 2015, 15:57
#31
30 Nov 2015, 15:57#31
 I imagine is a typo,.... it should be forerunner

but this is all you can refute from the whole article? a typo?
well then it can be assumed that the Bush family financed Hitler and the nazis

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 Nov 2015, 16:25
#32
30 Nov 2015, 16:25#32
Oh sure.....Hitler didnt cause WW2, a bunch of American industrialists did ....Hussein didn't invade Kuwait, Bush did. Santa didn't leave you sixpence, the tooth fairy did. 
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
30 Nov 2015, 16:46
#33
30 Nov 2015, 16:46#33
 don't put words into my mouth, don't be so low,........ never said that Hitler didn't cause the WW2,..... but he was helped by the Bush family financing him, his nazi goverment and their arming

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
30 Nov 2015, 16:50
#34
30 Nov 2015, 16:50#34
 this is from "The Guardian":

"George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy."


the whole article if someone is interested:


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2015, 00:03
#35
01 Dec 2015, 00:03#35
Germany and America were not at war. It was to be be expected that large German projects would be financed on Wall Street...many British projects were as well. When the war started and America was a neutral, it was seen  favoring Britain, which it probably was.  But it also supported your communist buddies big time with huge amounts of arms....this in spite of the fact that Stalin turned out to be as big a butcher as Hitler. Grow up.
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
01 Dec 2015, 00:37
#36
01 Dec 2015, 00:37#36
Moz, Iraq. How do you feel about that? Particularly as concerns Junior and co? Murder and robbery, or an honest war for honest reasons? Gotta say, I can't escape thinking that they new exactly what what they were doing.
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
01 Dec 2015, 02:03
#37
01 Dec 2015, 02:03#37
 @moz,

"Germany and America were not at war. It was to be be expected that large German projects would be financed on Wall Street..."

really? it was to be expected that Wall Street had financed the arming of Hitler when he already had invaded Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands and France? it was to be expected to finance the extension of the racist and dictatorial regime all over Europe? it was to be expected to finance the regime that already had begun the anihilation of the jews, the romanis or gipsies , the homose*uals, the comunists and any other opposing politically?

and btwin december 7th 1941 and October 20 1942 when "the U.S. government ordered the seizure of all banking operations being carried out by Prescott Bush for the Nazis", Germany and America were at war and P. Bush was financing the nazis
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
01 Dec 2015, 02:48
#38
01 Dec 2015, 02:48#38
 Plum the first Iraq war was totally necessary...Iraq had invaded a sovereign country. I have said before and I said at the time that the second war was ill advised. That said Saddam and his sons were unfit to run a country. Those who deplore this war on moral grounds but believe the world should have anticipated the Nazi atrocities seem to have a problem with hypocrisy.
I believe 100 per cent that the Bush  administration thought they would find WMDs....these are conservative men, who would not have orchestrated a lie that would be exposed in a matter of weeks. Why else would Blair have gone along? There is also the anti conservative American media, who would publish any evidence of a lie....in a flash. No such evidence has emerged, even from one of the many potential whistle blowers  who would have been part of a lie so big.
A justified war and a disastrous, ill advised war is my take.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
01 Dec 2015, 03:30
#39
01 Dec 2015, 03:30#39
 The US have not a clue when it comes to the middle east .Probably should have just stayed the fark outta things right from the get go ,Saddam and his boys were arsholes but compared to isis and the other creatures that filled the vacuum created after their removal by far the lesser of 2 evils .10 times more Iraqis have been killed after his death and the US invasion plus the utter destruction of Iraq has strengthened Iran who pretty much controls the joint via their cats-paws now in power there.Only these dictators like Saddam and his ilk seem to have the ruthlessness and who gives a fark what the world thinks brutality to keep the jihadists down .And for all the crocodile tears over the murders committed by Ghadaffi and Saddam very little is said about the deaths of 500.000 Iraqis and tens of thousands of children who died as a result of the embargo imposed on Iraq.Even now the US and allies are that naeive when it comes to the middle east that they dont get that isis actually despise the Iranians with an intensity that makes their hatred of the west look like a school yard spat .So now watch as the west makes more stupid alliances with the likes of Iran .And after a million or so deaths and several countries utterly ruined what has all the meddling achieved ? Is the world or the middle east a better place now ? Is Iraq  better off now that Saddam is gone ? Wonder who's pockets were filled with filthy lucre after all that ?
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
01 Dec 2015, 03:50
#40
01 Dec 2015, 03:50#40
Plum......I will tell you now that the UK and America created and trained ISIS to take out Assad. We all know that. You will not get me saying otherwise. It's disgusting and, as I have already said, Frankenstein quickly lost control of that particular little monster ( one that was more powerful and downright insane than could be envisaged, I think ) Regime change/oil grabs/the desire for Israel to expand territory into Syria ? You name it, it's all been suggested and is more than likely true. Our so-called leaders are so inept and seem to forget that they are playing with people's lives. You might be interested to know that a number of our politicians have pointed out that they cannot support Cameron's vote for joining the coalitions bombing raids because two years ago he wanted to bomb Assad and they voted him down, now he wants to bomb ISIS ! They want to know if he can actually make his mind up this time about which side he is on !!  Funny if it weren't so serious. 
As for WW2 and the Bush family, yes, all true. And yes, America was firmly on the side of the Germans and had to be forced into participation. Why do we keep having this discussion ? Facts are facts. They ran weapons for Germany and financed them for years. As I said, Joe Kennedy and chums were huge supporters of Hitler and they were incredibly powerful by this point. Kennedy lobbied very strongly for them to stay out of things so as not to fight against the Germans, he was a known anti-Semite. 

As for Iraq and Bush and Blair....words fail, Mozart. And it's clear you have not seen the paperwork that proves it was arranged two years hence, at their meeting in America ( not sure if it was Camp David, I know Blair made an even bigger idiot if himself than normal trying to dress like some sort of cowboy ) Hasn't managed to hide that from the Chilcott Inquiry, even though most of it has been redacted. They should both be in The Hague ( but we all know the US is exempt from all that ) and Blair should be tried for Treason. The man is despised. Thank goodness most people can now see what the rest of us saw from the start.....how he sleeps at night is beyond me. 
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