Paris Attacks

 Dont forget well known anti-semite and ardent nazi supporter Henry Ford ! Who was mking profits from both sides as were many US companies .FDR was all for helping those fighting the Axis powers thank goodness .Even those 50 old WW1 lend-lease destroyers were a godsend .

America was on the side of the Germans and had to be forced into WW2?  Gosh I always thought America was isolationist, not wanting to get involved in a war in Europe  more or less guaranteed by the foolish Versailles treaty France so badly wanted.



And I also thought the only thing that kept Britain alive was the lifeline extended by the USA. Easily proven because before the Atlantic convoys were formed England was months away from starvation. What would have have happened if there were no ships at all is no mystery.

It seems gratitude wasn't part of the deal.

 You forget all those commonwealth countries [ especially Canada ,everyone forgets them !] There were some shady dealings going on for sure but true no USA no great Britain .Or USSR for that matter ,the russkis never published oics with lend-lease gear in it even though their top scoring ace Pokryshkin flew a Bell P-39 ! But no deuce and a halfs to transport everything no beating the Nazis. My parents and Nanna especially used to say how lucky they were living out bush as they had access to plenty of food at least ,most of NZs food production was used to feed US troops in the Pacific and training in NZ .Apparently my Granddad was not real happy about eating bully beef and warm water for months on end while our American friends got fresh food when ever they were able . The US logistics system was pretty damn good ,hell they even had ice cream makers on board some ships like carriers the going rate for a downed naval aviator was  40 gallons of ice-cream which made Bush worth 5 times his weight in ice-cream sundaes !

The USA has a long history of financing war, terrorism and other illegal activities to further their own greedy and often paranoid agenda. Throughout their relatively short yet violent history, whenever the USA has perceived a government or an organization to be a threat to them, they have financed individuals, terrorists or armies to eliminate that threat . . . and in many cases, years later, the same group that they funded became the new "enemy".

Below is a list of individuals, armies, organizations and drug cartels that have received funding from the CIA to create war, terrorism or crimes that further the USA's own agenda. It is by no means a comprehensive list but just consider the consequences of each intervention and ask yourself if the Yanks improved the situation in any of the cases below:

1926 -1942 Hitler and the Nazis in Germany

1932 Anastasio Somoza in Nicaragua

1948 Syngman Rhee in South Korea

1953 Iranian army in Iran

1954 Castillo Armas in Guatemala

1958 Saddam Hussein in Iraq

1958 General Phoumi Nosavan in Laos

1960 Mobutu Sese Seko in Zaire

1961 Brigade 2506 in Cuba (Bay of Pigs)

1963 Ba'ath in Iraq

1964 General Castelo Branco in Brazil

1965 General Suharto in Indonesia

1966 National Liberation Council in Ghana

1971 Manuel Noriega in Panama

1973 Augusto Pinochet in Chile

1979 Contra Rebels in Nicaragua

1979 - 1989 (Soviet War in Afghanistan) Taliban in Afghanistan; Al Qaeda in the Middle East; Islamic State in Syria and Iraq

1980 Atlacatl Battalion in El Salvador

1991 FRAPH in Haiti

1999 Los Zetas in Mexico

2003 Admiral Guzzetti in Argentina

2009 Honduran army in Honduras

 Gratitude ? Was that part of the huge War debt we only just finished paying to America a few years ago  ? For playing their part in a World War to stop that man from marching his way across the countries, wrecking havoc and systematically destroying the Jewish people simply " because " ? Is that the American definition of " gratitude " ? Seems to me that Mozart doesn't know an awful lot about the country he has called home for a very long time, does he ? Either that or he is one of the most naive men in the world. 

My Grandfather always used to talk about the fact that, when they finally joined the War, the Americans seemed more interested in trundling their vast food supplies and tailored uniforms than actually fighting ! He wasn't with them much, being based in France ( he even came home from Dunkirk in a coal barge....turned up on the doorstep still covered in the soot. My Grandmother didn't recognise him ) but he thoroughly objected to the behaviour at the end of the War where many Units simply turned up at liberation time and raced in to be the first there, having done no fighting whatsoever. That got his goat !! No-one would ever say there were not many supremely brave young men who died or were maimed out there. But the overall attitude, and that of the Government, is what rankles, I think. 
Being relatively close to many US airbases, we always used to have a lot around these parts....and in the War, they were everywhere. My Grandmother was seriously unimpressed with them...I can tell you now, that was one lady who did not succumb to their " charms "...or nylons  

 
Sure seems as though we have a lot of anti Americans on this board.

I'm not one of them!! In fact I'd love to live there.

One would swear they're the only country to ever have committed these wicked deeds.

I can't remember them killing millions of their own people though ... can you?

Russia has. So has China ... and Burundi.

Iraq.

I think our very own country can step up and take a few laurels for evil committed against mankind.

Britain is another country with a shady past ... and present. Their enthusiasm to bomb the shyte outta Syria has been noted. They have a blood lust like few these days.

Italy can take it's deserved bow and so can France and Germany.

Look at Zimbabwe, Uganda, Angola and Mozambique. South Africa aided the rebellion in Mozambique didn't they? Same goes for Angola and South West Africa.

How many thousands of people died because of our involvement? 

If there are any countries out there that have committed no crime ... put no devious plot together ... please stand up.

Thought so!!

Come on Klown, I'd expect to hear that "we're-not-the-only-ones-they-did-it-too" line of argument in a kindergarten, not on a grown up message board.

Besides, how many of those countries have the military capability of the USA . . . and how many of them shove their noses into other nations business under the guise of "humanitarian intervention"?

Don't know why you're banging on about what governments do to their own people when I'm talking exclusively about meddling in other people's affairs. Do try to stay on topic.

 Becs having a logistics tail that along with support units that took up to 90 % of their manpower meant there were chronic shortages of men in frontline combat units .Also food ammo and winter gear etc were being funelled into a huge black market in France almost the minute the Allies landed ,desertion and black marketeers were never really solved .An inter war nobody named John CH Lee created his own personal fiefdom and deliberately with held supplies from frontline commanders and was complicit in diverting millions of tons of war matriale' to line his own grubby pockets .Omar Bradley among others threatened to drive a tank into Lees HQ and blow him to itty bitty pieces if he didnt release his supplies .

USA has its problems often becasue they do not have the leaders they deserve. Currently they have the half baked muslim supporter obama - the worst ever.
I can see clearly some oaks here have no idea as to the nature of the current threat the wolrd is facing. Go to jihad watch and you will get a glimmer of a major aspect.That refence by Moz was also outstanding.
The clowns criticising the USA have not grasped the elementary fact that it was the USA that saw off atheistic communism and Godless nazism.
All the States needs are MEN like Trump and Cruz at the helm and America will be great again. We cannot afford another 4 to 8 years of a politically correct moron in the white house. It could be the end of America the free. An America under sharia law is to ghastly to contemplate. An interesting aspect is while politcally left rags like the Washington Post and media manipulators like CNN continue to spew out their drivel the interent is becoming the source of news for many folk. Hence the grip they had is loosing and folk are in fact wakening up after years of relentless brainwashing - much like the foolish evolutionists who are getting a big drubbing these days. 
Trump gets roasted by these twits but internet sites show what he actually said and a completley different story emmerges. The left wing liberal media is loosing all credibility and folk have had it with them and their daft views in increasing numbers.
Their brian washing of the gullible has had disasterous results in the USA and Europe. Thankfully a huge rebound is building up. Enough twaddle is enough twaddle. You dont hand over your countrry to muslim invaders. Its that simple.
What would of course be the hugest blunder is NATO defending turkey against the Russians who has been supporting ISIS in various ways and being the route taken by muslims to invade Europe. Boot turkey out of NATO now.
Euorope of course needs leaders like France's new Joan of Arc - Marine Le Pen and her niece Marechal Le Pen 
They look set to win regional victories in December! 
wimps like the labour hatter Corbyn must be assigned to the dustbin of history. This clown has no idea whatsoever.

What a masterful summary by Beeno.  The cla ptrap stops here!

Beans, the Christian version of a radical Muslim! 

Absolutely Wardad. 
I think it is also very interesting to note that, at last, the truth about the French Govt has come to light ( i won't say the people, many of whom were terribly brave and the majority of them lost everything....amongst the most appalling brutality ) But the lie that was created to hide the complicity in aiding Germany, and is something many Historians always knew and argued about !, was proven when the paperwork was discovered. It hadn't all been destroyed. Any Govt that condemns it's people to such atrocities, it's " Allies " to such things and then tries to cover it's tracks ( albeit highly successfully for the past 70 yrs ! ) really is contemptible beyond words. I mean, look at the way they treated the " sympathisers ".....hanging women from lampposts in the streets after publicly razoring their hair off etc ? Shades of the Concentration Camps, methinks and possibly ranks on the lists as War Crimes.....

As for you CC, facts are facts. This is where hatred begins if you take pure fact and cannot process it as such. It doesn't mean someone thinks X country is the spawn of the Devil, it means they are providing a factual assessment of a situation. I have American friends, love them dearly. Although their world knowledge begins and ends in the USA......
As for my country, do you not think I know my own History ? Am I not saying we helped created ISIS, with America, to do a job for us ? Have you not read my opinions on Iraq/Afghanistan ? The public wanted no part of either of those invasions, but we had no say. Bush and Blair decided it was happening, so there we go. 
America is a driving force, of that there is no doubt. And they cause instability simply to create trouble.....you would have thought they would have learnt their lesson by now  

 

 During WW2 95% of Germans identified as either Roman Catholic or protestant and 3.5% as other Christian religions .And the slimy one himself[ no not beandik ] hitler is on record as declaring that the "we  tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity .In fact  our movement is Christian " .Because any squeezer can profess to be christian without adhering to any christian ethos other than all the nasty sh!t many supposed christians are fond of .

 Poor warped DUD all confused again. However you do get it right when exchoing what I said. Just because it goes by the label Christian doesnt mean it is. One has to compare to the source - the teachings of the New Testment.Nazism was based on atheistic darwinism. 

 Well Hitler is always branded an Atheist, of course he was raised Catholic if that piece of info is to be trusted. But he took his icons from almost every Religion ever known and amalgamated them into his own little " brand "I would bet any money he was another who never truly renounced his God.....so many profess to, but, when push comes to shove, you find they never truly have. They just can't do it. Indoctrination is fascinating....and terrifying all at the same time. 
Henry VIII was never Protestant, strangely enough given we have him to  thank for the break with Rome and creation of the Church of England. He was born Catholic, died Catholic. He only had that little situation ( resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands and abject chaos throughout his reign and his mental daughters ?? ) simply so he could get himself a new wife. The things people do for " love ", hey ?! 

 Well bluebok have you any ideas besides immediate capitulation.Come on let' s hear from you.I mean was Churchill in your view an extremist because he stood up to Hitler.Here is something far, far more dangerous as it has a billion followers believing their God has told them to wage jihad on infidels like you. Unless you are a muslim?

 Yes just because some arshole like you labels himself a christian doesnt mean he isnt in line with the nazis and their way of thinking .Instead of nonsense that some whacker plucked outta their ars.e try and disprove the actual meticulously recorded facts about Germany and christianity .One thing about the nazis they kept excellent records .The new testament that brings the sword eh ?Farkwit you are pl.

 
"grownup message board" ... ??

Cant believe you just said that. Perhaps you should give that a rethink!! We have an edit function available ... use it.

You're on a mission to paint the USA as all bad ... and I'm telling you they're not.

You're using a single line of attack in an attempt to make your point and I'm showing you that there are worse atrocities being committed across the globe ... far worse than anything the States have ever managed. 

Try to keep up will ya??!!

The USA have done many good things.

What did you expect them to do after the 911 attack. Sit on their thumbs and accept the loss of life? Surely not??

Would you have?

I'm not condoning what the States gets up to at times but lets face it, its a lot better than mass genocide, wouldn't you agree?

Not sure what's got your nuts in a knot regarding the States ... don't care either ... but try your little one eyed bull shyte story on someone else.

 Yes, Beeno, and it is a known " fact " that ISIS are not " true Muslims "......
Your move......

 
Either way ... they're still murdering folk in Allah's name ... no matter how misguided they may be ... the "fact" remains that Allah is their source of inspiration.

 

 It was sarcasm, CC......

 The part that escapes me is why all these countries had a moral duty to rescue the Poms again. 
Were the emigrants who went to America and Oz from England or Ireland well treated in England before they left. What about the poor Boer women, did their grandchildren have an obligation to save their former oppressors. And why did all the Irish, Italian and German Americans have an obligation to save the Poms? 
The fact is these serial losers should have been grateful anybody came at all with their abysmal track record...and far from fighting Hitler to save others, they were fighting Hitler to save  themselves.
My father in law was shot escaping from a prisoner of war camp and spent 3 years in  a German POW camp. He fought Hitler on principle, so did the Indians, Canadians, NZers and Yanks. The POMS fought him to save their own skins.

The hypocrisy around all this is a joke...as is Joseph Rooineck's  list. Rooi by name...red by affiliation.

 "The USA have done many good things.

What did you expect them to do after the 911 attack. Sit on their thumbs and accept the loss of life? Surely not??

Would you have?

I'm not condoning what the States gets up to at times but lets face it, its a lot better than mass genocide, wouldn't you agree?"
Well said Clean Cut. Hard to believe the hate extolled on here for the Americans and America. Let's have a look at who the first nation is to hand out support the next time a third world country suffers a natural disaster. I can tell you now it won't be China or Russia...not even the rich Arabian countries.

The Ebola vaccine, initiated by Canadian Public Health ....developed by Merck a US Company. 

 I have nothing but admiration for the guys like my kids grand uncle who like many young Americans came halfway around the world to fight the Japanese .His war bride was it turns out the only indigenous RN in Australia at the time .But there was even in Australia and many other allied countries a fair bit of draft dodging black marketing profiteering from the top down .As Becs said the French conveniently dodge all their actions making them complicit with the Nazis and foisted blame on for the most part women who did what they had to in order to get by while covering the governments own shame .After the war or even after the D-Day landings its amazing how many French people suddenly became Resistance fighters ,turns out only 25,000 French people were ever active partisans during the occupation. One thing I do admire Churchill for was having the balls to sink the French fleet rather than have it fall into Nazi hands .It showed the US that the Brits were in it to the death .

 What utter tosh, Mozart. You really have been indoctrinated by the pseudo " History " of the United States, haven't you ? For your information, there were a good deal of incredibly wealthy English people who spent time every year as US citizens, no-one had done them a terrible disservice. They just fancied spending time in a new country. Many of those who went to that country were criminals, plain and simple...boo hoo, get over it. And they continued in their criminal activities once there. Atlantic City, Chicago, New York....all cess pits with gangs trying to gain the upper hand and doing absolutely anything to get control. And that includes gangs from countries all over the world fighting for parity. 
As for us fighting to save ourselves,hmmmm, well ask any surviving Poles what they think to your assumption and you might get your answer. I guarantee it won't be pretty. But of course, don't intervene in a War that encompasses the entire globe.......carry on funding and supplying arms to the Nazis; universally agreed to be the biggest stain on the History books in many a lifetime. Oh and then claim credit for winning said War, demand payment for nearly 70 years from your so-called greatest ally ( who is also paying to re-build Germany by the way ) whilst you decide to take over at the head of NATO, split up Germany and then generally boss everyone around and act like you're the bees knees. Yep, that's the way ! 
And um why did America finally enter the War ? Because they were threatened/attacked by Japan. Not until that point. So please, they only acted to save themselves, not to aid others, something you just erroneously accused Great Britain of doing. 
As I said, History really is not your strong point. You really should just leave it in the past.....or to those who understand it. 

 becs
Being a person with a keen interest in history what is abundantly clear is that there has through thousands of years been a close relationship between wars being fought in the world on two grounds, namely -
*   usage of religion as a reason for wars; and
*   financial and economic self-interest.
Religious wars took place in Europe for centuries between the Catholics and the Protestants and in a lesser way between other major religious groups and the mainstream church groups.   The monarchs and leaders used religion as the means to incite the people to participate in wars.   The same problem raised its head in the Islamic religious factions and is on-going.
Economic wars are far more serious in nature.  All the major wars since the mid-19th century can be classified as economic wars.   The main problem leading to both World Wars was the threat the German economic growth posed to the economies of other major countries in the world,  Fact is the two wars caused near destruction of the German and Austrian economies after WW1 - but the subsequent recovery was even a greater threat to self-interest which led to WW2.  All the other reasons for the war was in fact propaganda dished out for the ordinary sheeple who had to support the war effort.  
That has not changed in the 21st century - all the wars of this century has been economic wars and recently revolved around the issue of oil.   The story of freeing people from oppression is a cover used to get involvement in wars by the sheeple - sheer propaganda.   
Problem is there are reason to believe that there are ruthless people exploiting the situation since wars are profitable for some of those.  They normally incite wars and arm both sides to make their profits rise massively.  
In the present scenario it is very evident.  Some elements in the Muslim world use religion to gain power and cause religious wars as a means to that end.   ISIS ad Al Queda are two more prominent organisations involved in that field.   To blame all Muslims for the present scenario is wrong - since only a small minority of the ordinary Muslims are really involved.  In fact ISIS has killed thousands more Muslims than anybody outside of the Muslim countries.


         
  

 I dunno Becs ,there were guys like FDR fighting an intransigent congress who wanted to sit on their nice safe comfy ars.es while the rest of the world burned .I like the way FDR used homespun homilies like lending yer neighbour a hose to water his cabbages or put out fires or summat  during his wee " fireside chats " and he did end runs around congress to try and ensure at least some sort of preparedness ,especially with big ticket items like aircraft carriers he used as public works and infrastructure for his plans to get the US economy going again via his "New Deal" .No one can disparage the US troops who made it into combat who after getting a bit of a touch up from the Afrika Korps learned fast and well and for the most part distinguished themselves .

Becs the majority of English voters  fully supported Chamberlain's appeasement, and only decided to take on Hitler when he  invaded Poland. But somehow Americans were callow for not immediately jumping to Britain's defence when it finally plucked up the courage to take on Hitler. But they saved your little island and avoided German as a compulsory subject at Eton. You should be grateful.

 "But they saved your little island and avoided German as a compulsory subject at Eton. You should be grateful."
Cut and dried, it doesn't get any simpler.

 

"As I said, History really is not your strong point."
Indeed becs, but it does beg the qustion . . . what is Moffie's strong point? 
From what I can tell Moffie's only possible strengths are self-promotion, slander and belittling other people.
Notice how the self-important old fool has a little pop at my list of cases where the Yanks sponsored terror or war but he doesn't even attempt to dispute even one of them . . . almost as if people should accept his version of events just because it's him saying it. LMAO!

Wardad, I agree. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the American soldiers who fought in WW2, my problem is with the American politicians of the time who sat back and watched Britain stand alone against the might of the German Luftwaffe in one of the greatest modern displays of national courage and defiance and even then only entered the war after they were attacked.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

Lady Becs I see you are still in denial. 
I quoted a number of jihad verses. I posted a schedule listing the 164 jihad verses in the quoran.What you need to grasp is that in the early stages mohammed preached peace as he was in the minority etc. As his group became more powerful he preched jihad.His followers are on record as asking why allah contradicted himself (the koran is riddle with contradictions). mohammed reply was that allah could do as he chose. So the doctrine of abrogation arose. Where there was a contradiction the latest statement of mohammed is authoratative (google the muslim doctrine of abrogaton).Now in many cases this led to desparate attempts to establish the chronological order of surahas. However in the case of the jihad surahs it was easy since they came about after the initial statemennts about living in peace with others. This confusion in text is used to confuse non muslims. Speak peace make war is the strategy.
So the position in the koran is that the jhad verses take preference. Islamic state is simply carry out the jihad versus required by the teaching of the koran.
These jihad requirements are shocking of course - beheading infidels etc etc. Hence some would shrink back from doing these things. I quoted elsewhere the surahs saying muslims should not shrink back from doing the will of allah re jihad. So the islamic State boys dont.
The fact is no muslim can criticse the ISIS for doing what they do on the basis of the koran. In fact Islamic State can from the koran criticise those not participating in jihad as apostates. From the poiinyt of view of the koran they are correct.
If any "Christain" comitted acts of Jihad he could be shown to absolutley not be following the teachings of christ.HUGE DIFFERENCE. NOTHING IN THE NEW TESTAMENT REQUIRES THIS EVIL NONSENSE.
It has been noted mAny times how the vast majority of muslims say nothing about all this, But how can they go against the koran. Of course a few do. They are the nominal muslims not taking the koran seriously orthey are muslims simply using their age old tsctic of talking peace and practicing war. Much of the jihad incitement happens in the mosques and is based on jihad surahs in the koran.
Some now are leaving Islam as they cant stand it. Some become christians but most become atheists because their minds see God as a monster as do the hapless atheists. Given their view of God as revealed in the koran this is not surprising.
Gradually those previously totally ignorant are waking up to what islam is about.
One thing I can guarantee you is that jihad activities will not stop. jihadists are now in many countries in the world carry out the commands of the koran. Nothing is going to stop them apart from the return of Christ to govern the wolld. I am not saying they will necessarily take over as the more they jihad the more the nations of the worlkd come to detest them. I am saying they will not stop simply because they read the koran and believe they are ordered by their God to commit jihad. 
Things will not get better. the islamic goal is world domination and all infidels, who they have not beheaded, under sharia law.
I would love to send all these muslim apologists and denialists to live in a muslim country. Nothing like a dose of reality to wake them up. Of course they may not surive the experience.
Lastly warp ed DUD ask your mummy to wash your foul mouth out with soap. You are polluting the board with your foul language. Your nonsensical views can be expressed without a stream of gutter language.Thanks warped DUD.

 ABF
Has any questions ever being asked about who in fact funded the Communist take-over of Russia in 1917?   There has been persistent comments that the funders of that revolution was in fact Rockefeller and that they used the Swiss Banking system to keep the Communists in power in Russia.  The system fell flat in 1983, when Reagan, Mrs Thatcher and Kohl said no more and the Communist system collapsed shortly thereafter.
As an example Russia's agricultural output in 1914 was higher than it was in 1985.   The Russian economy before 1914 was also showing strong  growth signs and became a threat - hence the need to destroy growth - because Russian growth would not have been in their interests. 
The profits made out of trade with Russia with a Communist dictatorship in charge - keeping Russia as a poor country was massive.  However, the action that broad communism down in Russia gave raise to a major growth in the Russian economy, something feared by their ancestors as far aback as 1914.   
          

 Hey bean sh!tforbrains ,my mothers dead so go fark yourself ya wanker .

 I never took history at at school...haha because the geography teacher was well sexy! It was a no brainer.

Anyway, as a result i never new a great deal about WW2 and in my 20s i decided to go right to the source and read Mein Kampf.

There was one point he made in there which has always stuck with me, and it concerns the British.

He said that he would love to have the Brits as allies and one of his reasons, as i remember, was that he had great respect for the fact that when it came to war they drew on all classes to fight side by side and didn't treat the poor as cannon fodder. Upper and lower classes, rich and poor, shoulder to shoulder.

I'm not sure why that always stuck with me, but it has, and obviously my time in the UK came many years after this and ivguess it's not the same today, but it's admirable. Yes yes the Brit Empire were true fuckers and responsible for many bad things...hell the boer war was horrible. But, the world owes the Brits a massive debt for WW2. There is no getting past that. 

 I have a history major plump and it sureshows when it comes to understanding the modern world. You and poor DUD are generally speaking cluless. main problem seems a lack of ablity to read content more than a few paragraphs long. Ou DUD is only good for a fould mouthed rant.  The poor twit is off again! 
Clearly there is no soap in their home either - probably thinks soap is bad for you!.
Take my advice and do a few copy and pastes. It would improve the content vastly and also the language! Haha hahahahahaha 

 You a history major ? From where ? Sunday school ?Fark me but your nose must be huge beenochio ....

As usual, the only uninteresting post on here is from...yep you guessed it :/ Watched an interesting interview with Putin yesterday. I don't trust him at all but hell, the coming months are going to be good.

 "One of the greatest modern displays of national courage" writes the AAS. Well what were the English going to do you silly man? Surrender without a fight, when they were protected by water and a superior navy. Man you are clueless. The pressure was on Germany to pull off an invasion which was potentially much harder than D Day.

As for modern courage under attack, ask the people in Stalingrad and Leningrad....ask the people in Cologne and Dresden about bombing and deprivation. What happened in London was bad, but not a tenth of what happened in those and many other continental cities.
And while you are about it, if you want to understand where the war was won, look up the Battle of Kursk.
Given all that happened in WW2 the British...."Boys Own" ....view of the war is offensive.

Moffie.........rather the German language as a compulsory subject as opposed to the Paki and Arab ones being enforced today.           Perhaps if the Yanks stayed at home in WW 2 the world would be a lot safer today.         Yanky-did-not-do!