Paris Attacks

Interesting....expand on your thinking. So what exactly do you think would have happened if the US  stayed at home?

 If the Yanks had stayed at home then madness of a kind unimaginable would have descended upon us .Imagine the likes of Himmler and the 'poison dwarf ' Goebbels torturing an entire planet .Anyone who thinks thats a good thing is utterly mad.

The Germans actually took out ads in the New York Times warning travellers not to board the Lusitania as it was going to be in an area where U-boats would be operating. Remember reading somewhere that the US passenger boats were loaded with arms for the Allies. Does anyone know if it's true that one of the major banks was responsible for loading the fated ship and sending it off...ultimately to be attacked by zi Germans?

 In WW1 the Lusitania combined with the infamous "Zimmerman telegraph " helped propel the US into WW 1 [ better late than never !}  .Under the rules of maritime warfare the U-boat captains were supposed to surface and board the ships before sinking them ,the German resorted to this for a while but took a gamble and declared unrestricted warfare on the high seas .Strangely enough the greatest submarine ace of all time actually did sink all his victims under the rules laid down pre-WW1 and even towed life boats to safety ,Arnauld Lothar De La Pierre sank 197 ships including 2 warships totalling 250.000 Tonnes just off the top of my head ,a true gentleman apparently and top U-boat ace  .

 Moz I have to compliment you on trying to educate poor rooitwit and wapred DUD and plump. Plump says - but hell, the coming months are going to be good.
This guy is spounding more like a psycopathic muslim by the day - and of course more like ou warped DUD!
Two obvious lunatics we have here!

 Hey baboon-ou ,still havent said where you got a history degree from .Cornflakes box perhaps?Now tell the truth you dont have one do you beenochio ? Dont lie else baby Jesus will cry .......Plum the Germans had large cargo carrying U-Boats like the Deutschland that paid for itself on its maiden voyage to the USA ,it continued up till the US entered WW 1 in 1917 .

There is a new book out on the Lusitania called Dead Wake, by Eric Larsen. I read it recently. It has a lot of society history, which is frankly a bit boring. But there is a lot of detail about the events that lead to the sinking...worth a skim through.

Thanks Moz, i shall possibly make it a bit of holiday season reading. What of interest have you found in there...without any spoilers of course? Wardad, the guy got his degree from a printer. He one he uses to print those "Jesus hates fags, Jews and Rock n Roll" flyers he hands out to Sunday school kids. I hear he has 4 x PHDs already. As soon as he buys new ink he'll be a scientist too.

 I think your on to something there ,but I think he used crayons ,You can imagine him lying on the floor in front of the telly his eyebrows knitted into a mono-brow as with tongue sticking out the corner of its gob in intense concentration it scrawls out its latest scholastic achievement .....

I think Mozart has, not only posted some of the most insulting words on here he has once again shown his distinct lack of historical knowledge and understanding. 
Who is responsible for the largest loss of civilian lives in bombing raids during WW2, Mozart ? Care to hazard a guess ? Give you a clue......good old America. They might well have turned up late to the party, but they made up for lost time. 
In Tokyo alone, 100,000 civilians lost their lives.
In Dresden ( as you brought it up ) the figure totals 25,000In London....20,000 ( oh and London was just one city of this tiny island that was hit, night after night, year after year ) 

I can give you more figures if you so wish....the American bombing raids obliterated a far higher rate of civilians in a couple of other areas than Dresden. 
But carry on. 

The Lusitania was carrying weaponry for Germany, they made a mistake in sinking that one. The coast of Ireland had bodies washing up for days.....horrific. 
Oh and Plum.....what about the U-Boats just off New York in WW2 ? Another interesting side story to the final entrance of the " Land of the Free and Home of the Brave " into our little skirmish.......  

 WW2 U-Boat captains called operation "Drumbeat " their happy time ,US cities were all lit up silhouetting ships just nicely for the Germans ......"Bomber Harris " is still a controversial figure to this day .Initially bombing raids were confined to leaflet drops and the like but that all changed fairly quickly .The Western way of war is total and brutal and has no room for sentiment .Usually anyway but there are of course exceptions like the Luftwaffe ace who approaching a battered B-17 bomber held fire when he realized the gun stations werent tracking him .Edging to within a few meters he saw the crew were all dead or wounded ,ignoring his duty to shoot it down or face being shot himself he escorted the wounded bomber until it was able to make it safely to England .Many years later the 2 pilots  Franz Zigler and Charlie Brown the pilot of "Ye Old Pub " met up and became friends .Weird and inspiring .

Becs, rather just tell me. I have racked up so much reading I don't know if I can keep up. Did you make that JFK post btw?

 warpedI have not only a CA but a BA from UCT - majors english and History. Was going to be teacher. id you get past junior school?
Becs I see you have not replied to my response to your comment -  Yes, Beeno, and it is a known " fact " that ISIS are not " true Muslims "......
Isis are true muslims, very true. They follow the jihad requirement of the koran. it is those who dont who are not true muslims. one has to measure these things against what the koran teaches to assess who is following the teaching more closley. Those who follow the teachings more closely are the truest followers.muslims are radicalised by reading the koran. Next by going to mosque. By internet and by travelling to muslim countries.it is a huge mistake to think jihad is not a requirement for ALl muslims to follow.
Refute this if you can. You will not be able to do so because the authority here is the koran itself.The muslim doctrine of ABROGATION is the final nail in the coffin since no muslim can rightly thereafter claim the koran preaches peace. Those versus are canclled out by the later jihad versus - Abrogat ion

 "Germany and America were not at war. It was to be be expected that large German projects would be financed on Wall Street..."

really? it was to be expected that Wall Street had financed the arming of Hitler when he already had invaded Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands and France? it was to be expected to finance the extension of the racist and dictatorial regime all over Europe? it was to be expected to finance the regime that already had begun the anihilation of the jews, the romanis or gipsies, the homose*uals, the comunists and any other opposing politically?
So we have plump, warped DUD and also ab ass all pathelogically hateful towards the USA. Too much listening to muslim propaganda methinks. Where do these loonies get all this stuff from. No wonder they are such muslim aplogiosts and fans of Obama. These losers are in for a miserable time as both the West and USa wake up from the spell cast by leftist loonies.

 Hey ya liar why dont you answer me about your supposed history degree ?Because you got caught in a lie and dont have one do you you wanker ?LIAR .Your god is gonna be p!ssed with you  dikhead.

 BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THE DUMBASS IS STILL OBSESSING ABOUT MY HAVE A BA WITH A MAJOR IN HISTORY! 
I suspect he is caus ing a diversion as he has been clobbered on the debates.

Beeno.....it was SARCASM !!! Do you understand that now ?! Goodness me 

As for Mozart's comments, I didn't think he could get any lower but he has excelled himself. So well done for that. Must have been watching all of those technicolour movies where the Americans are saving the world again that has done it....totally fried his brain. 
As you brought the subject up, I will enlighten you a little further.....the biggest civilian atrocities as a result of bombing raids during the Second World War were perpetrated by....can you guess for me ? That's right, the good old U S of A. Tokyo lost 100,000 civilians at their hands. 
The figures for Dresden are 25,000London are 20,000 ( I could give you the other cities and towns of my tiny island that were hit, night after night, if you so wish, because you seem confused and think it was only London that was affected ) 
Any casualty is one too many, simple as that. But don't you dare try and take the moral high ground when you reside in a country like America.And back to learning some History, as I keep saying, it hasn't your strong point. 

Oh Plum, my lovely, if that is too much reading for you already we will never make an Historian of you  And I had some homework for you too !!  Which JFK thingy am I supposed to be looking at now ? I had some links for you from one of the most renowned Cuban War Experts too......But I am glad to see you have read " Mein Kampf "....good old Adolf. Not exactly Shakespeare, but......

 THanks for clearing that up Lady becs I could hardly believe you getting things that wrong. We leave that to lunatics like Plump and warped DUD.I see Tony Blair is getting there on the subject but still needs to connect some dots:

Support for the propaganda of Islamic State stretches “deep into parts of Muslim societies”, Tony Blair has said as he warned of terror attacks on a larger scale than the shootings and bombings in Paris last month unless the group and its ideology are defeated. (As the ideology is based on the 164 jihad verses in the koran itsa bigger problem than he thinks)

In a speech in Washington, in which he praised British MPs for the “important” decision to extend RAF airstrikes against Isis targets from Iraq to Syria, the former prime minister warned that “a belief in innate hostility between Islam and the west” is not the preserve of a few.

“Those who believe in concepts of the caliphate (AS per the koran) and the apocalypse (Also derived from the koran) – so much part of Daesh [Isis] propaganda – stretch deep into parts of Muslim societies,” Blair said. “A belief in innate hostility between Islam and the west is not the preserve of the few.”

The remarks by Blair in the 7th Kissinger lecture at the Library of Congress echoed earlier speeches by the former prime minister – and by David Cameron – in which they have said that advocates of extremist ideology must be confronted in addition to advocates of extremist violence. Michael Gove praised Blair last year when he criticised government officials for just believing in “beating back the crocodiles that come close to the boat rather than draining the swamp”.

Blair endorsed this view in a wider global context when he spoke of the large number of Muslims who have sympathy for extremist views. He said: “Of course a large majority of Muslims completely reject Daesh-like jihadism and the terrorism which comes with it.(Not if the take the koran seriously - here Blair errs)

“However, in many Muslim countries large numbers also believe that the CIA or Jews were behind 9/11. Clerics who proclaim that non-believers and apostates must be killed or call for jihad against Jews have Twitter followings running into millions ... The ideology has deep roots. We have to reach right the way down and uproot it.”

Blair’s reference to the caliphate and the apocalypse refer to two of the central beliefs of Isis. In their reading of Islam the apocalypse – the final confrontation between Muslim and Christian armies – will take place in the historic Syrian town of Dabiq. Isis aims to restore caliphates in ancient Islamic lands.

He said that Isis forces and allied groups – plus those who support its ideology – must be defeated in Syria, Iraq, Libya, the Sinai area of Egypt and in parts of sub-Saharan Africa. Blair said: “Defeating Daesh is only a necessary beginning. Force alone will not prevail. The challenge goes far wider and deeper than the atrocities of the jihadist fanatics. The Islamist ideology has also to be confronted.( YES which is very difficult given the 164 jihadist surahs)

“Today it can be, in alliance with the modernising and sensible voices within Islam determined to take the name and reputation of the faith of Islam back from the extremists. A continued failure to recognise the scale of the challenge and to construct the means necessary to meet it, will result in terrorist attacks potentially worse than those in Paris, producing a backlash which then stigmatises the majority of decent, law-abiding Muslims and puts the very alliance so necessary at risk, creating a further cycle of chaos and violence.” (Here again he is living is a fools paradise not understanding that jihad against infidels is required by the moon god allah. There will always be muslims taking the koran seriously)

Blair praised MPs for taking an important step in the battle by voting in favour of extending air strikes against Isis targets from Iraq to Syria.

He said: “For Europe, there is a huge calculation to be made. This security threat is at our door. It is actually within our home. We have a paramount interest in defeating it, which is why last night’s vote in the British House of Commons was so important. Europe has to create, within its nation states, the armed force capability to allow us not just to play our part but to lead.”

 Tony Blair can go hang.....he should literally be doing just that. He is vile, detestable and I do not know how anyone can be so shameless as him. 

Well Tony is seeing things better than some on the issue although not qute there but time will sort that.

 Don't ever listen to that little snake. And he is to blame for many of those issues getting totally out of hand.....how he sleeps at night is beyond comprehension. 

 The number of dead in Dresden, probably vastly underestimated because of the chaos in Germany  was the same as London a city with many times the number of people. Case closed.
But don't take my word for the horror....here's Winnie:
"Churchill subsequently distanced himself from the bombing.[97][103][104] On 28 March, in a memo sent by telegram to General Ismay for the British Chiefs of Staff and the Chief of the Air Staff, he wrote:

It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land… The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing. I am of the opinion that military objectives must henceforward be more strictly studied in our own interests than that of the enemy.

 My Grandparents would not have shed a tear for the axis dead ,they would have already shed them all for their own .When you start a war to the finish on an industrial scale you get industrial sized casualty lists .If the Japanese had the ability to inflict the same amount of damage on the US they would have in an instant as would the Germans ,and they wouldnt care either .Dresden was in response to that old mongrel stalin who wanted the Western allies to bomb German chokepoints like the marshalling yards in Dresden that funnelled troops from one front to the other .Harris and bomber command didnt have the accuracy for anything other than carpet bombing the crews often missed their targets by many miles ,sometimes even the wrong cities .Operation Cobra the breakout from Normandy was preceded by a massive bombing operation close to the front lines that went astray by some 2 miles or so and caused 5000 us casualties .The poor US grunts used to say ' If its the Luftwaffe the allies duck for cover if its the British the Germans duck for cover and if its the USAAF everybody ducks for cover !"

 I do not want to get involved overmuch in this discussion - but has tow rite about two issues where I was a few things by people in the know that was rather disturbing.  Those included the following facts: -
*   Dresden was in general known as the hospital city where military and civilian hospitals catered for wounded soldiers and civilians - even though that fact was generally known (and it bothered Churchill as well if the note mentioned above was to be taken seriously) the bombing of Dresden in fact involved a crime against humanity;
*    That whereas other pilots flew at lower altitude making their bombing operations more accurate, the American pilots flew at a height beyond the range of anti-aircraft weaponry at the time and their bombing was highly inaccurate, leading to destruction of the old inner city of Freiburg where the streets were too narrow to accommodate armaments and thousands of places like the Schonbrunn Palace in Vienna- which was of no military value at all. 
*    That the Roosevelt administration was infiltrated by Communists and Roosevelt  reached an agreement with Stalin to hand over Central Europe including a major part of Germany to the USSR as their spheres of influence - despite serious misgivings of Churchill on that issue.   This led to decades of extreme oppression and suffering by the people of eastern and central Europe, which only ended with the collapse of the Communist dictatorship in 1989 as well as the Cold War era.
The most oppressive regime in the history of mankind was the Communists in Russia.  During a visit to Russia I was told by ordinary people that during the period 1917 to 1952 more than 52 000 000 people died in the then USSR as a result of State interventions and that mass graves are still being discovered all over the country.  Stalin in particular was responsible for most of those deaths.   Yet the Americans armed the Communists and through their banks and the Swiss Banks kept the Communists in charge of the country so as to ensure that the country remains economically backward and easily exploitable.       

              

 Nope the most oppresive regimes exist in islamic states. Nothing today comes close.