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FORUM / RUGBY /  Prof John Lennox rocks

Prof John Lennox rocks

Started by Beeno1268 REPLIES2,809 VIEWS· 15 Sept 2014, 14:06
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 14:06
#1
15 Sept 2014, 14:06#1

He was at a conference for  50 of the top scientists in the world. One unfortunate oak got up and said Prof Lennox you cant possibly think that the bible today can shed any light for science today.

Lennot reminded the oak that up until the 1970s (I think he said) science had argued the universe was eternal. However the evidence started to mount that the universe was not eternal and now science holds that it had a beginning.

Lennox politely reminded them that the bible had always got it right as the opening sentence in the bible states that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. If they had accepted that they would have been able to approach things from the right angle and make better progress.


Hahahahhahahaha  


He went into a little detail about information. The words you are reading now are are to do with matter, chemistry etc but of course are much more than that - they also reflect mind.


So it is with the 3.4 billion odd long letters of the human genome. Written in a language containing 4 letters. This spells the death of materialism. It demonstrates massive intelligence has been involved and Not mere mindless matter, chemistry and physics.


What is now hugely amusing is some scientists are desparately attempting to try and show how the universe created itself out of nothing using the laws of gravity. They can't do it and are making fools of themselves. 


Ou rooitwit, who always believed the universe to be eternal is now completely at sea but, regardless - like these scientists, cannot bring himself to admit God created the Universe. So they struggle and squirm and bring up one theory after another which collapses in a heap. 

Nothing cannot produce anything. End of Story.


Best realise there is one God and then seek to find him. Miss this and you miss everything.



PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
15 Sept 2014, 14:17
#2
15 Sept 2014, 14:17#2
Actually about 2870 gods have been documented since the start of recorded history. You better hope you have picked the right one. Personally I'll plead ignorance rather than arriving in front of Thor with a "Jesus is King" banner. That's not going to end well.

Hammertime.

The above is tongue in cheek, I'm not looking to start another boring religious discussion.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 14:19
#3
15 Sept 2014, 14:19#3
 And stupid strikes again , Father George Le Maitre a Belgian Catholic priest and Cosmologist first proposed the "big bang theory " in 1931 .Prior to this many mooted a steady state theory .And it was Hubble who proved that the universe was expanding using doppler shifts to prove it .
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 14:40
#4
15 Sept 2014, 14:40#4
 What truly stupid people dont get about science is that a science is always adding new and discarding or adjusting where needed ,without fear or favour .Non science like beandork is into starts from the premise that their beleifs are absolutely true no matter what .No need to bother with any nasty proof or evidence that might disprove their beliefs .They start with their assumptions and try to find anything that might be shoehorned to fit with their point of view .Science starts with a hypothesis then gathers data ,evidence to either support or refute a testable theory which is then published and subjected to scrutiny by a scientists peers.Stupid people always assume that a "theory" means something is unproven or just an idea , too stupid to get that gravity isnt some vague idea for instance { its the law !] or that E=mc2 gives you nuclear power and atomic weapons .Just a theory mind you .
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 14:51
#5
15 Sept 2014, 14:51#5
All that went bang was the eternal universe theory. Once again bible right.
The aetheistic view of things is now in total tatters. It was inevitable.Scientists are rapidly being forced to face the facts that their ignorance had blinded them too.
You are correct re Le Maitre warped DUD but it was only much latter that the evidence had acumulated to a point where science mad a complet 180 degree about turn leaving poor rooitwit and so many others up a creek and without appaddle.Lennox referred to the work of le  Maitre. 
After years and years of twaddle science had to admit to the error of its ways. Now with all the discoveries regarding information embedded in creation the game is up. 

Hilarious really that some oaks will waste their time tring to prove that the universe created itself out of nothing using the laws of gravity. Leaves me in stiches 

Pakie you are fast asleep. Get John Lennox's book - God's Under taker - has science buried God. Get up to date and you will find the argument against atheism has been won and now its just a mopping up exercise as the atheists will continue to refuse to face the facts science has discovered - which were placed there by God himself.Rightly does the bible procalim the fool has said in his heart there is no God.Pakie dont even begin to equate man made idols and man made gods to the God who in the begining created all things. 
No need to plead ignorant Pakie - you are, but a bit of real searching and seeking could remedy that . A good start would be reading the books penned by Prof John Lennox. They would certainly open your eyes to so many things. Why stay in your profound ignorance?

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:13
#6
15 Sept 2014, 15:13#6
 The big bang theory (which has not been yet definitely proven) states that there was a beggining, nothing more, nothing about God.
To deduce from the big bang theory that God created everything is absurd and a-scientific. All you can say is that this theory doesn't refute God's existence but nothing more.

If the science had realised and assumed that "there is one God and then seek to find him" we would stll be thinking that the earth is the center of the universe and we would still be burning in bonfires everyone who dare to bring up anything different
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:22
#7
15 Sept 2014, 15:22#7
 Please ab ass it is totlly evident that nothing didnt create the universe but that it was in fact created. It had a starting point. What started it also cealry had incomprehesible intelligence - God.
That is why ab ass Anthony Flew the leading atheist in the wolrd in his day recanted and said the EVIDENCE lead him to GOD. The evidence he referred to was information incoded into the universe.Wise up ab ass.ThanksHowever even if you are right which of course is patently obvious you are not. Think how the mighty have fallen. Even that noted oak Richard Dawkin (Who started so confidently years ago saying that any idea that there was a GOD was utter nonsesne) says there is a 50% chance that the Universe was created by God. What an admiison has been forced on the por oak.Who knows but in time he will swallow what remains of his increasing battered pride and simply come clean and aknowledge all the evidence points to an incredibly intelligent creator God. Scinetists now talk of intelligent design - thereby avoiding the use of the name GOD. 

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:24
#8
15 Sept 2014, 15:24#8

You guys are welcome to try debating this with Baboon-ou but you'll find that arguing things like the origins of the universe with Baboon-ou is futile. He hasn't got the cranial capacity to understand a Dick and Jane story let alone concepts like cosmology or the Big Bang theory. You can save yourself some trouble by visiting the hilarious www.answersingenesis.org website which pretty much encompasses Baboon-ou's "beliefs" and from what I can gather, it's where he gets most of his gobbledygook from.


If you want a good laugh, ask Baboon-ou how old the universe is and ask him if (and how) dinosaurs co-existed with man. I'm not joking! He even has a picture of a dinosaur footprint over a human footprint. LMAO!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:31
#9
15 Sept 2014, 15:31#9
Bwahahahahaha ou rooitwit appears and immediately ignores the question on hand and goes off on a tangent - things I have already explained to the halfwit.Now ou rooitwit you have had more than ayear to think about matters with that lonely braincell of yours. Explain to us how the universe created itself out of nothing using the law of gravity. Note of course a law cannot create anything as well.No atheist in the world has suceeded (and none ever will) but we await your profound response. We plead for you to enlighten us.
Bye bye rooitwit!

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:46
#10
15 Sept 2014, 15:46#10

Here we go again, the same old "you didn't answer my question first" childishness.

Baboon-ou, I know this will probably be about as productive as teaching calculus to a vervet monkey, but once more, the Big Bang theory does not claim that anything was made from nothing, it claims that all known matter in the universe was contained in a tiny singularity billions of times smaller than a pinhead . . . in fact, almost smaller than your brain.

The matter was always there, it was just a lot more dense . . . again, a bit like your brain.

Now, I've answered you for about the 20th time so please have the common courtesy to answer my questions . . .

1. How old is the universe?
2. Did man and dinosaur ever co-exist?
3. What were a breeding pair of arctic foxes, australian kangaroos, south american llamas, siberian tigers and north american bison (not to mention a pair of T-Rexes) all doing hanging around Mount Ararat at the time Noah built his ark?

Come on . You can ask more questions of your own once you've summoned up the courage to answer mine.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 15:59
#11
15 Sept 2014, 15:59#11
 Bwahahahahahaha you are hopelessly out of date rooitwit. That is not what theya re saying at all. Stephen Hawkins is saying it was created out of nothing. What they are working on and trying to explain with so much difficulty is how this could be.Lennox has engaed with scinetists trying to prove thsi and with no sucess.man youare still in the 20yth centiry.

Get up todate with the topic rooitwit. 
I dont want to move off this crucial point. I have answered your questiosn before.I told you very clearly the bible gives no indication as to the age of the Universe - zip.
If you want a good understanding of the biblical understanding read Lennox's book Seven days that divide the world. Excellent stuff rooitwit and it will hopefully give you a glimmer.Now back to how the universe created itself out of nothing using the law of gravity as the leading atheistic brain in the world claims.  Please explain rooitwit. No more dodging the issue. You have dodged it long enough. Science says there was nothing so throw out your garbage about matter being eternal when science does not agree with you and answer the question.Best admit it is patent nonsense rooitwit. It's an impossible task even for poor Stephen Hawkin!





 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:00
#12
15 Sept 2014, 16:00#12
Beeno...I will go and get my Mother, a life-long Atheist, to come and join the discussion in a moment. And believe me, you really don't want that !!!  
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:04
#13
15 Sept 2014, 16:04#13
The dullard who is still banging on about a tired and stale old concept like "intelligent design" is accusing me of being out of date. Pfffffffffhahahahaha!

Baboon-ou, however you try and spin it, I did answer your question. You've never answered my questions, not since that hilarious episode when your Carl Baugh theories exploded in your face and left you with all that egg.

Come on, man up and answer my 3 questions. I promise I'll try to answer yours if you show a bit of spine for once.

1. How old is the universe?
2. Did man and dinosaur ever co-exist?
3. What were a breeding pair of arctic foxes, australian kangaroos, south american llamas, siberian tigers and north american bison (not to mention a pair of T-Rexes) all doing hanging around Mount Ararat at the time Noah built his ark?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:12
#14
15 Sept 2014, 16:12#14
 

Nothing comes from nothing

Hawking and Mlodinow's idea of nothing isn't really nothing. It includes at least a law of gravity. So they are smuggling something into their idea of 'nothing.' They aren't really starting with nothing at all - withnothing nothing, as we might say. And this is cheating. Where did this law of gravity come from?

They say that such a law must exist. No, it mustn't. Really mustn't. If there is nothing, there is nothing.including no scientific laws.(Hahahahahhaha even 10 year old should know this)

And if there is nothing, that nothing cannot do something. It cannot create itself, or anything else. Philosophers have understood for centuries that nothing comes from nothing. Hawking and Mlodinow would like to reverse this.

Laws don't do anything

They try to do this by giving to scientific laws an almost magical ability to do something. But laws themselves don't do anything at all. All they do is describe what happens under particular circumstances:

'Laws themselves do not create anything, they are merely a description of what happens under certain conditions.' (Professor John Lennox)

This is really important. A scientific law never made anything happen. All it does is describe what happens. Gravity causes planets to stay in orbit and apples to fall. The law of gravity doesn't. The law just describes how gravity works.

And scientific laws need something to work on - they have to describe something. If there is nothing, then there is no gravity, and no law of gravity. Here's John Lennox again:

Isaac Newton's laws of motion in themselves never sent a snooker ball racing across the green baize. That can only be done by people using a snooker cue and the actions of their own arms.

Hawking himself recognised this earlier when he asked 'what is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?'


Becs the atheists are up the creek without a paddle. They have NO case at all.

Note how easy it is to refute por Hawking. Ou rooitwit isnt up to date with the debate he is still thinking there was something. Its a pity he doesnt update himslef so one can start the debate off at thr right point.

Tell you misguided mom to google Antony Flew or look at this. The guy had a complete change of mind. He is a world famous ex atheist.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:17
#15
15 Sept 2014, 16:17#15
 So there you have it atheistic position completely overturned.QEDI dont think there is too much hope in dragging poor rooitwit kicking and screaming into the 21st century he is such a dinosaur but one must always try!
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:24
#16
15 Sept 2014, 16:24#16
 How dull is ou rooitwit. I tell him the bible makes NO statement at all about the age of the universe and I have told him before I dont know. It could be 13.4 billion years old it could be younger.You see Genesis says in the begining God created the heavens and the earth. It doesnt say when. It then goes on and says - Then God said.
So the universe was already created and so was the earth before the seven days. But when is not known.Lennox does a study of the Hebrew text and show clearly we are not necsessarlty talking about 24 hour days either. Actually it is a sequence it is describing.Read his book about 7 days that divide the world. You preconceived ideas will be shattered.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:31
#17
15 Sept 2014, 16:31#17
Who is "they" you drooling halfwit?

I'm not saying I believe what any one individual has to say, I believe what mainstream science has to say when it comes to life and the origins of the universe.

I'm not a cosmologist and I don't pretend to understand things like quarks, black holes, Einsteins theory of general relativity, Hubble's law or string theory but (unlike you) I do have some idea where mainstream science is on these matters and the best place to read up on what I subscribe to is probably Wikipedia.

People can deride Wikipedia all they like but it still comes closer to the sum of human knowledge than anything else and I'll back Wikipedia over your bible any day of the week. Apart from endorsing things like slavery and genocide , your bible first appeared when the earth was believed to be flat. Wehe!

Now, be a good baboon and go type "The Big Bang" into Wikipedia and see what it says about all the world's matter being condensed into a single point. Get an adult to explain the multi-syllable words to you if your brain starts to get a bit sore.
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:36
#18
15 Sept 2014, 16:36#18
You're lying, Baboon-ou. You and I both know that you were once a Young Earth Creationist until I ripped you a new arsehole.

Oh and please note that the Young Earth Creationists will contradict what you're saying about the bible and the age of the earth. They base the age of the earth on biblical calculations based on the end of the old testament and working generations backwards. They arrived at a number of approximately 10000 years which is precisely why they have to make up all this laughable stuff about dinosaurs being on the ark.

Like I said up front, you're too stupid to take part in any kind of debate on these subjects and you're a liar to boot . . . and a weak little coward.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:39
#19
15 Sept 2014, 16:39#19
 Antony Flew refutes Richard Dawkin

On 1st November 2007, Professor Antony Flew’s book There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed his Mind was published by HarperOne. Professor Flew, who died in April 2010, has been called ‘the world's most influential philosophical atheist’, as well as ‘one of the most renowned atheists of the 20th Century’ (see Peter S. Williams’ bethinking.orgarticle “A change of mind for Antony Flew”). In There is a God, Professor Flew recounts how he came to believe in a Creator God as a result of the scientific evidence and philosophical argument.

Not surprisingly, his book caused quite a stir – as can be seen from the miscellaneous customer reviews on Amazon.co.uk. Some of those comments (and those elsewhere) implied that Flew was used by his co-author, Roy Varghese, and did not in fact know what was in the book. This is a serious charge to which Professor Flew responded and which he reiterated in a letter (dated 4th June 2008) to a friend of UCCF who has shown it to us. Professor Flew wrote:

I have rebutted these criticisms in the following statement: “My name is on the book and it represents exactly my opinions. I would not have a book issued in my name that I do not 100 per cent agree with. I needed someone to do the actual writing because I’m 84 and that was Roy Varghese’s role. The idea that someone manipulated me because I’m old is exactly wrong. I may be old but it is hard to manipulate me. That is my book and it represents my thinking.”

Professor Flew has written a forthright review of Richard Dawkins’ book The God Delusion. His article, reproduced below, shows Professor Flew’s key reasons for his belief in a Divine Intelligence. He also makes it clear in There is a God (page 213) that it is possible for an omnipotent being to choose to reveal himself to human beings, or to act in the world in other ways. Professor Flew’s article is offered here as testimony to the developing thinking of someone who is prepared to consider the evidence and follow its implications wherever it leads. (Sadly does that rule out Rooitwit?)

Professor Antony Flew wrote:

The God Delusion by the atheist writer Richard Dawkins, is remarkable in the first place for having achieved some sort of record by selling over a million copies. But what is much more remarkable than that economic achievement is that the contents – or rather lack of contents – of this book show Dawkins himself to have become what he and his fellow secularists typically believe to be an impossibility: namely, a secularist bigot. (Helpfully, my copy of The Oxford Dictionary defines a bigot as ‘an obstinate or intolerant adherent of a point of view’).

The fault of Dawkins as an academic (which he still was during the period in which he composed this book although he has since announced his intention to retire) was his scandalous and apparently deliberate refusal to present the doctrine which he appears to think he has refuted in its strongest form. Thus we find in his index five references to Einstein. They are to the mask of Einstein and Einstein on morality; on a personal God; on the purpose of life (the human situation and on how man is here for the sake of other men and above all for those on whose well-being our own happiness depends); and finally on Einstein’s religious views. But (I find it hard to write with restraint about this obscurantist refusal on the part of Dawkins) he makes no mention of Einstein’s most relevant report: namely, that the integrated complexity of the world of physics has led him to believe that there must be a Divine Intelligence behind it. (I myself think it obvious that if this argument is applicable to the world of physics then it must be hugely more powerful if it is applied to the immeasurably more complicated world of biology.)

Of course many physicists with the highest of reputations do not agree with Einstein in this matter. But an academic attacking some ideological position which s/he believes to be mistaken must of course attack that position in its strongest form. This Dawkins does not do in the case of Einstein and his failure is the crucial index of his insincerity of academic purpose and therefore warrants me in charging him with having become, what he has probably believed to be an impossibility, a secularist bigot.

On page 82 of The God Delusion is a remarkable note. It reads ‘We might be seeing something similar today in the over-publicised tergiversation of the philosopher Antony Flew, who announced in his old age that he had been converted to belief in some sort of deity (triggering a frenzy of eager repetition all around the Internet).’

What is important about this passage is not what Dawkins is saying about Flew but what he is showing here about Dawkins. For if he had had any interest in the truth of the matter of which he was making so much he would surely have brought himself to write me a letter of enquiry. (When I received a torrent of enquiries after an account of my conversion to Deism had been published in the quarterly of the Royal Institute of Philosophy I managed – I believe – eventually to reply to every letter.)

This whole business makes all too clear that Dawkins is not interested in the truth as such but is primarily concerned to discredit an ideological opponent by any available means. That would itself constitute sufficient reason for suspecting that the whole enterprise of The God Delusion was not, as it at least pretended to be, an attempt to discover and spread knowledge of the existence or non-existence of God but rather an attempt – an extremely successful one – to spread the author’s own convictions in this area.

A less important point which needs to be made in this piece is that although the index of The God Delusion notes six references to Deism it provides no definition of the word ‘deism’. This enables Dawkins in his references to Deism to suggest that Deists are a miscellany of believers in this and that. The truth, which Dawkins ought to have learned before this book went to the printers, is that Deists believe in the existence of a God but not the God of any revelation. In fact the first notable public appearance of the notion of Deism was in the American Revolution. The young man who drafted the Declaration of Independence and who later became President Jefferson was a Deist, as were several of the other founding fathers of that abidingly important institution, the United States.

In that monster footnote to what I am inclined to describe as a monster book – The God Delusion – Dawkins reproaches me for what he calls my ignominious decision to accept, in 2006, the Phillip E. Johnson Award for Liberty and Truth. The awarding Institution is Biola, The Bible Institute of Los Angeles. Dawkins does not say outright that his objection to my decision is that Biola is a specifically Christian institution. He obviously assumes (but refrains from actually saying) that this is incompatible with producing first class academic work in every department – not a thesis which would be acceptable in either my own university or Oxford or in Harvard.

In my time at Oxford, in the years immediately succeeding the second world war, Gilbert Ryle (then Waynflete Professor of Metaphysical Philosophy in the University of Oxford) published a hugely influential book The Concept of Mind. This book revealed by implication, but only by implication, that minds are not entities of a sort which could coherently be said to survive the death of those whose minds they were.

Ryle felt responsible for the smooth pursuit of philosophical teaching and the publication of the findings of philosophical research in the university and knew that, at that time, there would have been uproar if he had published his own conclusion that the very idea of a second life after death was self-contradictory and incoherent. He was content for me to do this at a later time and in another place. I told him that if I were ever invited to give one of the Gifford Lecture series my subject would beThe Logic of Mortality. When I was, I did and these Lectures were first published by Blackwell (Oxford) in 1987. They are still in print from Prometheus Books (Amherst, NY).

Finally, as to the suggestion that I have been used by Biola University. If the way I was welcomed by the students and the members of faculty whom I met on my short stay in Biola amounted to being used then I can only express my regret that at the age of 85 I cannot reasonably hope for another visit to this institution.


Now go and do your own research re why exactly Flew changed his mind and the evidence he found. 



BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:43
#20
15 Sept 2014, 16:43#20
 rooitwit you are half baked you dont even understand what the word nothing means!Haven' t you got a dictionary?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:50
#21
15 Sept 2014, 16:50#21
 Nope I presented evidence for a young earth yes indeed I did. But I also said I didnt know how old the universe was. Yes I did. why -  because the bible makes no comment on the age.Man I remember how wound up you got when I presented evidence for a young creation. You were frothing at the mouth like a lunatic.
Your mind is so closed minded rooitwit that anything new rocks you completely. However it is time you understood that what is being debated today in the scientific community is how nothing brought the universe into being. Stephen Hawking is taking a battering. That is where we are now.
Guess who is in the driving seat. Bwahahahhahahahaha
If you had any inkling about why Flew dropped his absurd atheistic stance you would do so as well if you were sincere about truth.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:52
#22
15 Sept 2014, 16:52#22
 Rooie I think your right about debating this monkey , he needs more evolving .About 2.3billion years might ,just might ,do it .
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:56
#23
15 Sept 2014, 16:56#23
Beeno please can you explain Noah and his Ark to us?
How did Noah fit 2 of each animal species onto his boat. This must have been some boat. It would have made the T itantic look like a toy model.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:56
#24
15 Sept 2014, 16:56#24
 warped DUD your comment reflects more on you than me.
You explain how nothing brought the univers into being using the law of gravity.Hahahahhahahahahaha I fear all, we will have is more rooitwit type empty bluster.



BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:57
#25
15 Sept 2014, 16:57#25
I think my Mum would enjoy having a lovely chat with him  

As for my friend Jason.....well, let's say I doubt he would remain civil !!!!  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
15 Sept 2014, 16:58
#26
15 Sept 2014, 16:58#26

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

 

But Leonard was wrong....in truth nobody knows. And those who claim they do are charlatans.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:01
#27
15 Sept 2014, 17:01#27
 Nope I refuse to budge from the right place to start.
Sharkbok I find what happens is I explain something then ou rooitwit jumps to another thing. I explain that and he moves on again. 
Here we have a vital point and he comes up with archaic stuff. He has not even grasped what the leading atheists are arguing! He can't understand what the word nothing means .

Hilarious really!!!!
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:04
#28
15 Sept 2014, 17:04#28
 And who cares what doddery scared of dying hedging his bets Flew thinks ?Do you think the immense universe we live in was made to accomodate one teeny tiny little world ? Pfffttttt
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:14
#29
15 Sept 2014, 17:14#29
 ou warped DUd makes another telling contribution which again sadly reflects on him.Now how about this:(4) Galaxy Seeds. Scientists believe that, if the Big Bang is true (first, there was nothing (Please note rooitwit!!), then, BANG, something came into being), then temperature “ripples” should exist in space, and it would be these ripples that enabled matter to collect into galaxies. To discover whether these ripples exist, the Cosmic Background Explorer – COBE – was launched in 1989 to find them, with the findings being released in 1992. What COBE found was perfect/precise ripples that, sure enough, enable galaxies to form. So critical and spectacular was this finding that the NASA lead for COBE, said, “If you’re religious, it’s like looking at God.

(5) Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said that he wanted “to know how God created the world. Now oaks rather align yourself to Einstein and Beeno rather than the half baked rooitwit and warped DUD



 
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:16
#30
15 Sept 2014, 17:16#30
Beeno the Bing Bang theory does not suggest that the universe was created out of nothing. The argument is that it was created out of a tiny particle. 
WIkiPedia Big Bang Theory

According to Poe, the initial state of matter was a single "Primordial Particle". "Divine Volition", manifesting itself as a repulsive force, fragmented the Primordial Particle into atoms. Atoms spread evenly throughout space, until the repulsive force stops, and attraction appears as a reaction: then matter begins to clump together forming stars and star systems, while the material universe is drawn back together by gravity, finally collapsing and ending eventually returning to the Primordial Particle stage in order to begin the process of repulsion and attraction once again. This part of Eureka describes a Newtonian evolving universe which shares a number of properties with relativistic models, and for this reason Poe anticipates some themes of modern cosmology.[4]--------
The idea is the universe will continue to expand until at some point it will stop, and then from gravity it will contract and eventually become the tiny particle again. This is an ongoing cycle...... 
A star (centre of a solar system) will expand until it cools down, and then it contracts due to gravity and forms a black hole.

Their is the question of how the particle was created in the first place. The cycle has to have started somewhere otherwise time is infinite (no beginning and no end). Some argue that this leaves a place for a God at the start of time......but then if their is no start of time how did God exist before?
----Man's current understanding of Religion or science are both limited in their explanations of reality, so neither can really disprove each other. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:23
#31
15 Sept 2014, 17:23#31
 Sorry Sharkbok Hawking is saying nothing. Once there was nothing then there was a universe. That is where science is today. That is what the atheists are busy defending and failing.

Anybody thinking all this just happened and was produced by mindless matter is daft. No other word for it. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:28
#32
15 Sept 2014, 17:28#32
SHARKBOK IF YOU THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER THAN EINSTEIN OR THE BIBLE GOOD YOU ARE SO VERY WRONG.EINSTEIN ACKNOWLEDGED THE SCIENCE DID NOT ALLOW FOR AN ETERANL UNIVERSE. IF EVEN THE SMALLEST PARTICLE WAS PRESENT ETERNALLY HE COULD NOT HAVE MADE THIS STATEMENT.
THEN ON TOP OF THIS WE HAVE THE BLINDING INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE IS DISCOVERING.THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD. SOME FOLK KNOW THEY ARE A BIT CLEVERER THAN THEIR FELLOW HUMANS. HOWEVER IT IS INTERESTING HOW GOD DEFINES A FOOL.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:30
#33
15 Sept 2014, 17:30#33
Beeno see the wikipedia link on the Big Bang Theory history. If you are quoting someone who themselves have has misquoted this,  then they are not talking about the big bang theory- but their own theory. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:33
#34
15 Sept 2014, 17:33#34
 Science doesnt need to disprove religion , indeed its the religious zealots who desperately fight against the massive weight of science .The observable universe is billions of light years in extent and to all intents and purposes is infinite [ given that we cannot exceed light speed ] .So we can see starlight that has taken billions of light years to reach us but half-witted creationists say the earth is 6000 years old ?As for that Ark where did he round up all the marsupials ,arctic and north and south American animals ? Oh "god did it ! "  eh ? pffftttt.Seeing as how the "Biblical " flood myth is stolen almost word for word from the Mesopotamians it smells like horse sh!t to me.Meanwhile in Central Australia 50,000 BCE  my kids ancestors were looking at the sky thinking " nope stiill not raining ,that future beandorks a liar eh ?"and 1000 BCE their ancestor in Central Australia looked up at the sky and thought " wheres this freakin' rain that moron keeps bangin on about ?"Didnt happen .Not now not ever .Where did all the rain come from idiot ? Outer space moon rain was it ? Quantum Singularity ="big bang" 12'3 billion years of [ you can call it god taking his time creating "stuff " if you want ] cosmological particle creation and stars and bizo and here we are .I dont care if you beleive in some bearded sky geezer who supposedly created everything .Just dont tell me it was 6 24 hour days [ which are an Egyptian invention just quietly ]Its your religi ous twaddle so keep it to yourself it has zero to do with science.
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:44
#35
15 Sept 2014, 17:44#35
It is also uncanny how every Christian holiday falls into line with every pre Christian Celebration; the Solstice's for example.
But there we go.  
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:47
#36
15 Sept 2014, 17:47#36
 True Becs ,they used to call it "Saturnalia " didnt they ? Cos they cant even decide on Jeebers B'day. Beandork ,like many others here I can just pull out whats in my head because its science and its logical which is why supernatural fairy tales are hard to keep straight .Like all lies .
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:51
#37
15 Sept 2014, 17:51#37
 Beeno you have a tough task here, most contributors here can not agree on our best lock scrum or flyhalf when there are pages of stats and hour of games to review. You are now asking them to believe something, in faith, with human understanding that can neither be proved or disproved. The best that you can hope for is to plant the seed mixed with love, respect and grace. The Holy spirit will do the rest.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
15 Sept 2014, 17:51
#38
15 Sept 2014, 17:51#38
 And I got no probs with peeps believing in god or Krishna or Bhudda or whoever or no deity at all [ I like the thought of Vallhalla ,all those busty Viking babes and endless partying and so on !] .Thats none of my business .And its none of yours either .
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
15 Sept 2014, 18:28
#39
15 Sept 2014, 18:28#39
I have no problem with anyone believing anything.
I used to specialise in Religious History for a while. It's an interesting topic.
I reserve the right for anyone to believe what they wish to believe, but do not expect me to believe anything I do not wish to, please. 
I also see the harm that has been caused over the Centuries in the name of Religion, I say in the name of, I see the harm today. And that should be something those that do believe should do their level best to put a stop to. 
We can talk about this topic until the cows come home ! And, as a Vegan, I would like those cows to live long and happy lives  
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
15 Sept 2014, 19:38
#40
15 Sept 2014, 19:38#40
 "Lennot reminded the oak that up until the 1970s (I think he said) science had argued the universe was eternal. However the evidence started to mount that the universe was not eternal and now science holds that it had a beginning..."
Is he saying that that because new evidence came to the fore, and the current thinking changed, that this proves the existence of God. In that case he is indirectly saying that poor science created God ergo, the universe. As far as i understand it, science is willing to adapt when new evidence comes into play, religion is not.
So it is with the 3.4 billion odd long letters of the human genome. Written in a language containing 4 letters. This spells the death of materialism. It demonstrates massive intelligence has been involved and Not mere mindless matter, chemistry etc...

Please explains to us how this "demonstrates" that it was written by an intelligent being/s. Are we saying that because it is complex, more complex than we can yet understand, that it automatically denotes intelligent design? Are we saying that human's in our arrogance, and in our relatively primitive state are to understand the entire universe in all it's complexity or else God must exist. This is irrational. 
Nothing cannot produce anything. End of Story.

No, this is not what science has said. Science's current explanation begins at moment when there was a superdense compacted collection of matter which exploded and resulted in the universe we know today. It does not say that there was nothing. It simply says that it does not know what the state of this ball of compacted matter was prior to that. Science accepts that it may have been a universe which had imploded in on itself, then out, then in again etc etc. 
Lets assume for a moment that there is a creator. Or that we are, for example creatures living in a pixelated universe, being observed from the outside by our creator/. Even if that was the case, they are not gods. They/it may be so powerful that we are unable to understand even a fraction of their ability, but it does not make them worthy of us bending our knee to. They would be creators, no more, no less. 
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