Rugby Championship 2012 - Johan Goosen Defence

So here we have it, every defensive situation involving the presence of Goosen. I need remind you all that Shezza stated Goosen was the best defensive 10 in South Africa, and numerous others also stated that Goosen was significantly better than Morné. Having sifted through these games I noted certain things about the opposition. For instance, in Dunedin, whilst Morné was on the field, New Zealand rarely put any emphasis on him. Their tactic was mainly to look for mismatches, with Dagg and Cruden probing the forwards. Goosen on other other hand was targeted immediately; the team obviously having a good chat about him in the build-up and they were looking to get that momentum through his channel - they got it. At no point in any of the three tests did Goosen provide any impact in any contact situation. I was also disturbed by Meyer's having a forward shadow Goosen; back to the days of Adi Jacobs when Spies and Smith always had to watch over him. Even more disturbing was the quality ball the opposition routinely got through him. No, being confronted by a Goosen tackle is like being caressed by a gentle breeze, the gentlest breeze that ever their was. I am more convinced than ever that Goosen does not have the making of a test 10. In him we essentially have all the weaknesses of Cooper but minus the tenacity and innate understand for operating around the gainline. Goosen never threatened the defence either, the drift always shifting out and swarming the outside backs. The debate is over as far as I'm concerned. In every way Morné is the superior player, and this is a fact supported by how our greatest foes respon to these two players. Goosen appears to be one of one of those players who is always in or around lapses in our game. Heck, I'd say even Lambie offers more! "But what of the great linebreak he made?" you may retort; actually, that only bolsters my argument further - it was a perfect demonstration of running and stepping skills. In some ways he reminds me of Dagg or Le Roux, but without their ability to draw and pass or adapt to the situation, seeking out the opponent to try and dominate him. As a fullback I think he could be useful, I say could be because I think there are better alternatives. I understand he is young, but he has very real physical limitations that are never going to disappear. You may counter this by saying he could always bulk up, but that's rather fanciful at best. He has a slight frame that can only support so much mass before you have injuries as a result of strain on that structure. Ectomorphs have longer stringy' muscles and are suited to some things better than others, i.e., his speed, endurance and mobility that facilitates that wonderful stepping ability. He is unfortunately in a sport that is dominated by mesomorphic and endomorphic individuals, and in a position that requires, neigh, demands more resolute force. No doubt the groupies will have something to say about all this, so have at thee!

Time Stamps

59:09 - Cory Jane brushes Goosen aside
59:17 - Goosen wanders off from a ruck leaving a massive hole exposed. Aaron      

           Smith had a mismatch against Greyling who quickly came in to cover the ruck
           fringe, likewise Flip and Kirchner had no chance
64:11 - Goosen assists a Pienaar tackle on Savea with no impact. Thrown aside by
           Nonu.
66:02 - McCaw runs past Goosen making good ground
72:40 - Nonu bounces Goosen backward
01:23 - 14 drags Goosen a good distance backward allowing clean ball for Australia.
01:57 - Goosen dragged backward in the tackle allowing Douglas to present clean
           ball.
03:43 - Hooper charges into Goosen, dragging him backwards. But for bumping into
           Bekker he would have ripped through Bok seam. Australia with the momentum.
15:09 - Goosen pursues Hooper but falls off the tackle completely and rolls away.
17:40 - Goosen grabs 14 from behind but has no impact. Bekker and Jean hault the
           charge, Bekker providing the thrust to drive 14 back. Aussies win clean ball.
18:17 - Goosen sees Barnes is coming onto the ball and darts out of the line early.
           Barnes gets over the gainline and looks for the offload. Aussies win clean ball
           and on the front foot.
33:19 - 14 attacks space between 9 and 10. Goosen flat-footed but Pienaar and 7
           drag him down.
43:00 - Goosen attempted tackle with no effect.
44:32 - Beale cuts inside attacking space between Goosen and Louw, cutting across
           the face of Goosen who is dragged dangerously backwards before Kirchner
           puts them both to ground.
51:20 - Beale runs at Goosen who ends up grasping at thin air as ball goes wide to
           Shipperly.
55:47 - Goosen attempted tackle with no impact.
55:58 - 6 runs into Goosen who is initially driven back with ease but Bekker comes in
           to add momentum to the tackle bringing the attacker to ground.
59:49 - McCabe runs hard at Goosen and drives through him, but for Louw making a
           big hit the Aussies would have been on the front foot.
65:10 - McCabe blasts into Goosen who is shaken back by the impact. Pienaar comes
           in to stop the run dead with Coetzee in support.
25:24 - Goosen dragged a good distance backward by Whitelock for a try. In fact, it
           was Strauss that provided the resistance to bring Whitelock to ground at all.
31:02 - Read runs it off the back of a scrum, running right through Goosen. Louw puts
           Read down well behind the gainline.
34:42 - Nonu carries the ball through a Goosen tackle, eventually brought down a
           good distance behind the gainline. New Zealand gain significant momentum
           and breakout for a try.

 Sun I had described your last few incidents and got a lot of grief from Mike, Dave and Shezza. But they are exactly as described. Thanks for that bit of research. What we see here in Goosen is an extremely ineffective tackler. It might not show up on the missed tackle stats because he gets help while clinging on  and usually the player is put down.... but the gain line is breached every time and often the offload is made. 

You can clearly see in these clips a plan to attack his channel, especially in the Oz match.

Can he bulk up enough to be an effective defender....and if he does so will he lose his pace. Issues to watch for during the S15.

Sun Tzu

You really are like Mozart in many respects.   You describe things that never happened and then go on the rampage about it.   

Lets get to the stats for the three games played - and see how near the truth the bullshittters are:-

Goosen had about 100 minutes playing time in the tests played.   The argument here is about his defence.   In the time played he attempted 20 tackles missing 2 - the two being in the first test he ever played in.   

His missed tackle ratio in the games played was  10%.  Compared to Morne Steyn's 19,4% in the RC this year - it was miles better than Morne achieved  especially if his tackle stats in the Ellis Park test is borne in mind (missed tackle ratio 36,36%).

If somebody was ever run at - as you claim - it was Steyn in the Ellis Park test.

It is no use to manufacture your own garbled version of what happened in the field of play - this type of thing was tried out in the past by Mozart and Der Aristocat and subsequent evaluation indicated a completely falsified version - so I am not even going to try and evaluate your latest version.

Stick to the stats - that is where you cannot be faulted

Sun Tzu

You do live in dreamworld - the AB's did not try and avoid Morne ever - they never would doo that and they did not so it in the Ellis Park test - if they did the defensive stats of Morne would not be the horror story it turned out to be.

L et me put it bluntly - anyone wanting Morne in the Springbok team - must have his head read - they are delusional if they think he produces the goods.   What a farce we have here.   Beautiful descriptions amounting to crap.

Try again and use facts and not fiction next time is my suggestion.  Mozart, the delusional, will always support you - but the rest will see through your attempts to manufacture garbage .   

Mozart

Statistically Goosen stats are way better than Morne - unless you think Goosen's 10% missed tackle ratio is worse than the 19,4% achieved by Morne in the RC and 20% in the EOYT.   

I accept that you rate higher missed tackle ratio's as acceptable and condemn lower ratio's as unacceptable. 

By the way Morne has the same problem you ascribe to JJ - they both go high.   What is weird is that you condemn it in the case of JJ and is eerily silent  about it in the case of Morne.    

There are two things in evidence here - Morne routinely goes high and is ineffective - as a rule Goosen goes low and is more effective.  That is clear when you watch games carefully and not with blinkers on.     

Mozart

You constantly tout failures to come through as Springboks of younger players who were given minimal or no exposure on international level to prove that they are not good enough to perform and keep totally silent on mistakes made and lack if performance by older players.

You tout older players like Bakkies Botha - who after a two year absence from the international scene came back to play - and had nondescript performances, while condemning younger players before they even had a test match.

The new one on your part is to set Super 15 as a norm.   Must younger players prove in Super 15 that they perform - and the same applies to older players?   Let me explain - some of the internationals have dismal performances in Super 15 because of very low work rates.   Those rates are in fact replicated on international level and not responded to by the "old guard".

I asked you one question - which you ignored.  You stated repeatedly and in most critical terms  that you condemn the tackling technique  if JJ a scribing the problem to the tendency of JJ to go high (which is definitely a fair and reasonable grounds for criticism) yet you are totally silent in the case of Morne Steyn - who displays the same deficiency - why?        

.          

Sun Tzu

Your misinterpretations are legion and one cannot just go on and on. 

Key rule of defending = Inside defender should nearly always tackle

Like that - very true - but then why did Morne miss the tackle on his opposing number (Barrett) and he is exonerated by you in full?  

The policy then is to take up positions quickly.

Goosen did the correct thing and took up position to defend against the opposing flyhalf.  If he did anything else he would have been wrong and Shezza is correct in his assessment.   Immediately around the fringes it remains the functions of the loosies anmd scymhalf to defend and they should have been covered by the full back as well.   No reasonable person can expect anything else.   The loosies were missing and so was the scrummie and as per normal Kirchner was nowhere to be seen.  How you can expect from Goosen to cover both the backline position and around the fringes is absolute crap.  That walyzing away is a load of unadulterated nonsence and shows really bias and not a modicum of sense,

Morné is better, Lambie is better, so too Jantjies! If you disagree then provide the proof.

On what evidence  do you base that wild statement?   Morne and Jantjies have one thing in common - they stand so deep in the pocket that some say they might even be in the carpark.  That means that they rarely are in a position to make contact with opposing players - either in defence or attacking play.  That ensures that the loosies and even other players limit anybody attacking through the channel - but when they did they routinely beat the defenders.   It was so bad in 2012 that Morne got boo-ed at the PE test.   This year it continued till Meyer in public said before the Ellis Park test the positioning of Steyn is unacceptable - he had to stand flatter and the provide a better and more effective service to the backline.  He did do just that and two things happened-

*   He was more directly responsible for defence than previously and his defence went down the drain.

*   He lost the plot and did not know when to pass and when to kick balls.

To be quite frank Morne always was static - standing to deep in the pocket and not running onto balls, but standings still when receiving them.  The other negative attached to Morne is that he is robotic and predictable - since he virtually never try to attack the gain line himself.   Looking at international flyhalfs he is by far the worst in that respect.  As a result he always was and still is largely responsible for the dead backline syndrome and inability of the Springboks to score tries against opposing teams.   Last year it was better - but the reason was not Morne it was Willie - whom you also despise - being first receiver of balls in backline play - which often happened. 

Is it? Prove it

It is easy to prove that Goosen is statistically and in fact a better defender than Morne.  In test play Goosen's missed tackle ratio is 10% - Morne's over the last year was 19 .4% in the RV and 20%   in the EOYT matches he played in.    

If Goosen is better, then why does he cave in? And it's not just forwards, its wings, centres, opposition flyhalves. He cannot handle any contact situation

When making 18 tackles out of 20 in the 100 minutes he played test rugby - there is NO EVIDENCE that he ever caved in as uyou stated.   The caving in must be a figment of your imagination - as is most of the things you write about constantly.

There is one thing that is clear - Morne Steyn is and has been for the past two years the worst player we could have had as flyhalf.   He cost us dearly in a number of tests - especially against the AB's.  

 Hell but the trooth fairy and the sun struck one can write endless fibberish of garbled situation accounts.   Mot worth discussing issues with them - they will always exonerate t Morne and damn everyone else.  

Problem is that the Stats normally destroy the gibberish sputed by some and then the stats are supposed to be meaningless.   And what's more, your stats have been proven meaningless. Nothing, Nought. Your entire argument has been proven a total and complete fallacy. It's over Michael.

Its over when you start reporting the truth - and not manipulate description of incidents to fit your standpoint - but in your case it will never happen.

You have not answered my question ever - what did Stade Francais fi nd out about Morne Steyn within 14 days - which you have not been able to find out in years - namely  that he really is a joke as a flyhalf?   The perfect flyhalf for South Arica not good enough to start for his club side?   

Sun Tzu

I agree with you about video evidence - but then the evidence must be recorded on an unbiased basis and not slanted to favour a specific player whose image is being protected, or another player whom is in disfavour.

You cannot carry on about Goosen's poor tackling if his stats are totally to the contrary.  He made 18 tackles and missed 2 in the 100 minutes he played for the Springboks.  Those are facts - a tackle by an individual player of that number represents a tackle every five minutes - which is extremely high for that period played.

It does not allow space for blame games like you write in the case of Goosen. 

Then there is one thing that is not reflected in tackle stats and then is if zero attempt at a tackle has been made - even if a player is ain a position to make the tackle.  This often happens and is the reason why some players do not attempt tackles because missed tackles does not look good in practice.   Recent actions like that happened twice in the case of Morne when Davies ran past  Fourie in the Welsh test  and is a constant in the case of Sloth - whose tackle stats is horrendous and way below what it should be.   

 Ceradyne

Despite the oppressing heat - even this time of the day - I am generous today.   What you need is a brain transplant - but that is not really possible because you only have a single malfunctioning brain cell and the amount of shit on your brain will find it very hard for  anybody to find that one.

If you can understand the term - have a good day.